Welcome Jonathan!

[Sindy]

Paul, I only replied to a question and had not read the whole thread to know anything about the being a need for anonymity. I thought that since the name was in the OP doc that the name was out there. And it was because it came up in the Google search I posted. Never the less, I was alerted to the problem by PM and then requested the post be deleted, along with it being quoted by another. Both are gone now.

Mary

Please go stand in the corner and think about what you've done.

 

[BardoThodol]

Thanks! There was no where else to go but OUT!!!

What about straight up and vertical?

 

[BardoThodol]

Fighting windmills can wait until you have a comfortable cushion.


Most of the posters and former posters here on ESMB on down from HH to AnonMary and Trouble are anonymous. They are still quite effective.

According to Roger being out front and posting as yourself is more powerful. I submit that Mark Baker fits that category, but HH doesn't. Yet HH has more power on this board. Representing yourself as your name is not the key ingredient.

/QUOTE/

"A rose by any other name..."

 

[Dulloldfart]

Carmelo,

A couple of things ....

First, your name is on this board. You put it here, along with your wife's name. Just go to google and type your name and Scientology and ... here it is.

My emphasis in the quote.

Yes, but the point is the Scn connection won't come up unless you specifically ask for it. If you type in his real name and the trade(s) he engages in, you'll find him in appropriate sites but not ones like ESMB.

Paul

 

[jonnyblade]

Damn it is so easy to slide into it all. Thank you for your great reply, it is fascinating to read how it all started and the moments of clarity.

I'd love to know more when you are ready. What happened when you wanted out? Is it possible to leave WISE without a hassle? Was there any benefits at all of being a member, or was it all a con?

Hi,

Yes, way too easy to slide into it all. Reminds me a bit of the Anatomy of the Human Mind course where Ron claims to have 'taped out' the mind and how it works. How absurd and self absorbed! But, being the genius crackpot that he was there are many valid points regarding coercion, manipulation, influence, positioning, etc. It's only when you learn all of those mechanics do you see what they would like you to fall for. I remember learning the DEI scale in which you really just annoy the living crap out of your prospect until they just give in... but of course, Ron called it coming up to 'DESIRE!'. I'd rather DIE than DEI someone!

I'll take some time and write up some more details but yes, it was a huge pain to get out of the WISE group as well. They had stolen nearly $7000.00 from me which I had on account with them and that is a whole other really pathetic story.

Was it all a con? No, not really. It was basic stat keeping, accounting, advice on structure. Not a con, but a ripoff. Could've saved myself a hell of a lot of money by not hiring that group.

 

[TG1]

I expect, like others here, you may keep learning from your experience.

But thus far what do you think you did learn from this particular WISE / SCN experience?

TG1

 

[PirateAndBum]

Just be glad you didn't spend $500,000 and 30 years of your life.

 

[TG1]

Or 15 years.

 

[jonnyblade]

Hi Jonathan,

This is so helpful and fascinating.

Let me ask you, in your travels through this experience, while hanging with other chiropractors and possibly other professionals, did any of them communicate discord, disaffection or intimate that they, too, had read weird stuff on the Internet? Or, were they all toeing the line?

Did any of them complain of excessive fundraising or the feeling that they were being controlled by a cult? I'm not asking for names, just trying to get a feel for the overall environment now. Is it a powder keg about to blow or confused people just keeping quiet and trying to get along as best they can.

I know there are lots of demands on WISE members, especially to buy books and contribute to libraries.

Thanks!

Sindy

P.S. My name is all over the Internet, connected to Scientology, and frankly, I'm thinking about changing my name! It's good to be wary, I think.

Hi,

Here's what happens with practitioners and doctors: They just got the living crap beat out of them going through school, passing boards, getting licensed, $150 - $200K in debt and are able to land a job for $12/hr. as say, a chiropractor. I'm not kidding. So, you find this WISE group, they serve up all of the benign parts of WISE / Scn., you are love bombed to death (you'd better be! you paid a lot to be love bombed!) and you are given organizational and business skills that are totally devoid in your training to become a doctor / practitioner. Everyone at the WISE group has drank the Kool-Aid, hell, they even give each other enemas with the Kool-Aid, and all the 'entheta' is completely and totally and utterly covered up and you, as a practitioner, as a doctor are starting to have some success from your application of some of your studies. You just paid $25000.00 to join this group and you are then a TRUE BELIEVER in what YOU are doing with WISE and Scn. You can't not be... you have too much invested and you have a boatload of debt and a business to run and a life to live, etc. BUT! it doesn't take long for that splinter in your mind to start inflaming that SOMETHING is wrong... and even though it's all over the Internet, you STILL decide to keep on trudging on because you are just too invested. It has become your Stable Datum. But then you start hearing more and more and more of the wicked 'entheta' and it slowly seeps through to where you start talking with your peers that you met at the group and you find out that 99.999% of them feel the same way... shit... we're in a CULT. I would sit around with some of my friends for hours on end counting the 'out-points'. I don't think its a power keg ready to blow but as natural healthcare practitioners, as chiropractors in this particular group, we were all very needy of help and in my strong opinion were totally taken advantage of.

Hope that answers your question.

All the best,
Jonathan

 

[Lurker5]

THAT is very good to know, jonnyblade. Thank you.

 

[jonnyblade]

I expect, like others here, you may keep learning from your experience.

But thus far what do you think you did learn from this particular WISE / SCN experience?

TG1

Hi,

I've learned about my own vulnerabilities. Unfortunately, I've also come to learn that 'help' could be used in a sinister way. But above and beyond all, I've experienced a new level of compassion and understanding for people, especially those that have gone through this experience and that is why I am here with you now. I've met some of my most favorite people through Scn and I understand how they are stuck and cannot break free.

Jonathan

 

[PirateAndBum]

Well I hope you get your practice up to seeing 3-4 clients/hr - that'll earn you far better than $12/hr

 

[Sindy]

Hi,

Here's what happens with practitioners and doctors: They just got the living crap beat out of them going through school, passing boards, getting licensed, $150 - $200K in debt and are able to land a job for $12/hr. as say, a chiropractor. I'm not kidding. So, you find this WISE group, they serve up all of the benign parts of WISE / Scn., you are love bombed to death (you'd better be! you paid a lot to be love bombed!) and you are given organizational and business skills that are totally devoid in your training to become a doctor / practitioner. Everyone at the WISE group has drank the Kool-Aid, hell, they even give each other enemas with the Kool-Aid, and all the 'entheta' is completely and totally and utterly covered up and you, as a practitioner, as a doctor are starting to have some success from your application of some of your studies. You just paid $25000.00 to join this group and you are then a TRUE BELIEVER in what YOU are doing with WISE and Scn. You can't not be... you have too much invested and you have a boatload of debt and a business to run and a life to live, etc. BUT! it doesn't take long for that splinter in your mind to start inflaming that SOMETHING is wrong... and even though it's all over the Internet, you STILL decide to keep on trudging on because you are just too invested. It has become your Stable Datum. But then you start hearing more and more and more of the wicked 'entheta' and it slowly seeps through to where you start talking with your peers that you met at the group and you find out that 99.999% of them feel the same way... shit... we're in a CULT. I would sit around with some of my friends for hours on end counting the 'out-points'. I don't think its a power keg ready to blow but as natural healthcare practitioners, as chiropractors in this particular group, we were all very needy of help and in my strong opinion were totally taken advantage of.

Hope that answers your question.

All the best,
Jonathan

Thank you! You have a great sense of humor.

I agree, it probably wasn't all a con or let's just say the con had some workability to it, much stolen from elsewhere, so as not to be too easily recognized as such. The individuals, most of them, wanted to help you. Their stats and constant demands from the insatiable organization were diametrically opposed to that desire to help you as yourself and for what you needed. All for the group -- collectivism.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Hi,

Here's what happens with practitioners and doctors: They just got the living crap beat out of them going through school, passing boards, getting licensed, $150 - $200K in debt and are able to land a job for $12/hr. as say, a chiropractor. I'm not kidding. So, you find this WISE group, they serve up all of the benign parts of WISE / Scn., you are love bombed to death (you'd better be! you paid a lot to be love bombed!) and you are given organizational and business skills that are totally devoid in your training to become a doctor / practitioner. Everyone at the WISE group has drank the Kool-Aid, hell, they even give each other enemas with the Kool-Aid, and all the 'entheta' is completely and totally and utterly covered up and you, as a practitioner, as a doctor are starting to have some success from your application of some of your studies. You just paid $25000.00 to join this group and you are then a TRUE BELIEVER in what YOU are doing with WISE and Scn. You can't not be... you have too much invested and you have a boatload of debt and a business to run and a life to live, etc. BUT! it doesn't take long for that splinter in your mind to start inflaming that SOMETHING is wrong... and even though it's all over the Internet, you STILL decide to keep on trudging on because you are just too invested. It has become your Stable Datum. But then you start hearing more and more and more of the wicked 'entheta' and it slowly seeps through to where you start talking with your peers that you met at the group and you find out that 99.999% of them feel the same way... shit... we're in a CULT. I would sit around with some of my friends for hours on end counting the 'out-points'. I don't think its a power keg ready to blow but as natural healthcare practitioners, as chiropractors in this particular group, we were all very needy of help and in my strong opinion were totally taken advantage of.

Hope that answers your question.

All the best,
Jonathan

The org obviously didn't get you on and through the PTSP Course fast enough.

There's enough thought stopping tech in that one that you might have boomed your practice and gone OT!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:dancer:

 

[jonnyblade]

The org obviously didn't get you on and through the PTSP Course fast enough.

There's enough thought stopping tech in that one that you might have boomed your practice and gone OT!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:dancer:

THAT is super funny... they were constantly on me to get on that course!!!

 

[PirateAndBum]

Yes, sadly Jonathan, you have failed to apply your Us & Downs In Life course materials. For another 25K I'm sure we can make it all better.

Please report at once to the SF E/O and get on the proper routing form so that you can save your eternity. Cause you know if your eternity is lost, well how will you go on?

E/O
"I see here that we issued a PTS declare on you. Have you decided to close your mind?"

Jonathan

"How am I supposed to do that?"

E/O

"Well, you just need to read KSW #1 and see the 2004 IAS Video of Tom Cruise and get on board."

Jonathan

"Sorry, movie stars in black turtle necks just creep me out."

E/O

"Scientology can HANDLE THAT!"

Jonathan

"I don't want to handle that."

E/O

"Hang on, I've got a routing form somewhere for that..."
​

 

[AnonyMary]

Jonny, don't throw out any of your WISE materials, like promo and newsletters, business directories, etc. These are very much wanted!

We could use them here
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/wanted-recent-wise-business-list.105978/

and at this forum I volunteer with in exposing the front groups.
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php?topic=50.0

One is up here
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/World_Ins...prises_International_Business_Directory,_2006

PM me if you want to know who to send /scan and email them to.

 

[Gib]

THAT is super funny... they were constantly on me to get on that [STRIKE]course[/STRIKE] indoctrination!!!

corrections noted above.

per golden rod, you are pts type H, thus you can't decide which really means you are not allowed to use critical thinking skills, question, or do any due diligence, which is all bypassed by Hard Sell, buy it now.

 

[Andtheyalllived]

Hi,

Here's what happens with practitioners and doctors: They just got the living crap beat out of them going through school, passing boards, getting licensed, $150 - $200K in debt and are able to land a job for $12/hr. as say, a chiropractor. I'm not kidding. So, you find this WISE group, they serve up all of the benign parts of WISE / Scn., you are love bombed to death (you'd better be! you paid a lot to be love bombed!) and you are given organizational and business skills that are totally devoid in your training to become a doctor / practitioner. Everyone at the WISE group has drank the Kool-Aid, hell, they even give each other enemas with the Kool-Aid, and all the 'entheta' is completely and totally and utterly covered up and you, as a practitioner, as a doctor are starting to have some success from your application of some of your studies. You just paid $25000.00 to join this group and you are then a TRUE BELIEVER in what YOU are doing with WISE and Scn. You can't not be... you have too much invested and you have a boatload of debt and a business to run and a life to live, etc. BUT! it doesn't take long for that splinter in your mind to start inflaming that SOMETHING is wrong... and even though it's all over the Internet, you STILL decide to keep on trudging on because you are just too invested. It has become your Stable Datum. But then you start hearing more and more and more of the wicked 'entheta' and it slowly seeps through to where you start talking with your peers that you met at the group and you find out that 99.999% of them feel the same way... shit... we're in a CULT. I would sit around with some of my friends for hours on end counting the 'out-points'. I don't think its a power keg ready to blow but as natural healthcare practitioners, as chiropractors in this particular group, we were all very needy of help and in my strong opinion were totally taken advantage of.

Hope that answers your question.

All the best,
Jonathan

Perfectly explained formula/pattern. Here's what I got:

Things had sucked for awhile, you were vulnerable, and you were part of a demographic that tends to be. And I hate when they spot a target that's still relatively lucrative even after internet search, South Park, etc. Which I'm sure Sindy had in mind asking about that scene. It's hard to pick em off the street these days, but trusted source, business connections, gonna get you out of the hole? Oh, yeah. Because it's not religion, It's not flower children on the streets of SF, it's people just like you. And you're vulnerable, so "let's do this thing!"

Most of all, you're invested... You'd not only be back to where you started from, but you're poorer, and get to feel like a sucker.

In the end, it's like a battered spouse. "It was so good in the beginning! I've been with him for awhile, and I paid off his debts! Sometimes he's nice to me! Some of it is workable!" (Another cringe word).

Welcome, and congratulations.
You're obviously in the right place.

 

[Lulu Belle]

You just paid $25000.00 to join this group and you are then a TRUE BELIEVER in what YOU are doing with WISE and Scn. You can't not be... you have too much invested and you have a boatload of debt and a business to run and a life to live, etc. BUT! it doesn't take long for that splinter in your mind to start inflaming that SOMETHING is wrong... and even though it's all over the Internet, you STILL decide to keep on trudging on because you are just too invested. It has become your Stable Datum.

Just so you know, Jonny...

You and the people who join the Sea Org have a lot in common.

Give up everything and everyone you have had in your life to join this group....

This is where you are. No matter what you see and what you experience, your whole nest egg is there.

You have no choice.