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My in and out story

Good twin

Floater
in and out again!

Okay. So I left off on the first time I was offloaded. I had a huge freeloaders debt. (Flag Trained twice!) I had to get up the bridge at least to OT3 before my label would be removed. I couldn't be trusted or trust myself. It was a bit spinny I guess.:unsure:
Anyway, I had friends who were not Scientologists and I had a boyfriend who still was a Scientologist. My Boyfriend was a very laid back surfer guy. The whole time we were dating going back to our preScientology days, he was always late. He was late for school every day through out High School. He was late for every concert, movie, party, dinner etc we ever attended. I really had no problem with it. I accepted it. He was so cool in so many ways. I got used to seeing the second half of the movie first. I never expected to arrive anywhere on time with him. So when he told me that his intern Supervisor had indicated to him that the reason he is late for course every day is because he is connected to me, you would think I wouldn't buy it. But I did. After all my R/Ses might have been causing him to be late since before he met me. I mean anything is possible. :ohmy:
So I just worked out how to get my life going again. I had to sort of reorient myself to life outside of Scientology. I went back to school for awhile. I got a couple of different jobs. Truthfully I didn't think too much about Scientology.
At some point, I had a conversation with a Scientologist. She was from out of town. My boyfriend's sister was recently completed on OT3 I believe. She was visiting her family and contacted me. She said she was concerned about my situation. By now there were a bunch of people attesting to Dianetic Clear. (Actually everybody was attesting - Dianetic Clear was flavor of the month) So she told me that perhaps I was Clear. :unsure: WTF? I was pretty sure she had some kind of screw loose. I was a List 1 R/Ser, a freeloader, DB, Org wrecker, source of trouble. :yes: I had accepted this and was making it work in my own way. She was just off her rocker! She went on to explain that R/Ses on Clears don't mean the same thing as R/Ses on a preclear. :eyeroll: Whatever! I wasn't really interested. I knew I wasn't clear. I certainly hadn't attained what I wanted from Clear. I was looking forward to the EP of Grade 0, thank you very much. I just wasn't even remotely interested. :no:
But it got me to thinking...... you know if people are/were going clear on Dianetics, maybe some who had done the Clearing course had already been Clear, and Dianetics was moved from under the Grades to above the Grades on the Grade Chart.:confused2: I guess sometimes Scientologists make mistakes, or Sometimes Scientology contains mistakes. A new concept was evolving in my mind. I knew that Scientology was defined as "workable". I got that it isn't perfect. But per KSW Series 1, I also got that there is no reason to change it. :coolwink: I best not look too closely at this. I still want to know more and I'm sure there is more to know.:yes:
So, I get contacted by my local Org. They interview me. They try to lead me down the Dianetic Clear trail. I don't go there. I tried, but couldn't come up with anything that would justify me attesting like all of the others. truthfully at this point I didn't want to be part of that club. Clear didn't look like much to me at this point. I was in better company as an R/Ser as far as I could see. I still couldn't be recovered as public because I had a freeloader debt. I figured that was the end of that. I agreed to make payments on my freeloader debt. Life went on. :whistling:
Then I was called in by my mission. I was told that the whole List 1 R/Ser thing was a big mistake and they wanted me back on post immediately! An eval was done and I was determined to be a plus point, not an outpoint, and blah blah blah :eyeroll: NOW why is it that once I have finally gotten on with my life, made things okay for myself, I have to revisit this decision to be a staff member. Well, you know how this turns out. :eyeroll: I decide to get back in the course room and make some auditors. That's what I am trained to do. I can use my Flag training instead of paying for it and never using it. And .....:yes: that's right back in again. Next time I get kicked out I will get declared. I'll be back to fill you all in on that real soon.:thumbsup:
Good Twin
 

Good twin

Floater
Okay so I'm back in. This was about 1979 or 80. The purif had replaced the sweat program. TRs remodernized had just been re remodernized. The grade chart was now upside down. Missions were turning into City Offices. WE were still under World Wide, but there was definitely something in the air. The Orgs moved in and took an interest in the missions. Org staff were sent into the missions to help out with Esto functions. Missson staff were sent to Orgs to get stablized and enhanced. This seemed like a good thing. :eyeroll: However, it turned out that these missions who were helped by the Orgs were the ones that became City Offices. Later they would be Orgs of course. These would be the little Orgs. Surely some of you remember this as I do. Looking back we were of course being set up. The bigger missions had no reason to become City Offices. They were already doing well and expanding. They were in good shape technically. They had more 6s and 8s then the Orgs. There were also some field auditors who were doing well and had good reputations. But just before this all changed I left.:clap:
I'm not sure what all led up to me leaving or how it played out. The upshot was... I was playing along doing my thing with some degree of success and saw some of the cracks in the walls. Of course I never thought it could be something wrong with the Tech or LRH or even the church. But it seemed to me that someone was misapplying something. Someone had an MU. It might even be me. :confused2: I got into a firefight with an Exec one night. It got loud. I left.
No one called me to get me to come back in. No one tried to recover me. I wrote a long letter to LRH telling him that there was something wrong and it might be me but I wasn't the only one. I didn't trust my own command channels because they were falling apart. I thought it was a pretty lucid letter. I was deadfiled. I later found out I was declared. I wasn't okay with this. However, there really wasn't any recourse. I wrote to the LC and that was when I found out I had been deadfiled. My declare had been approved and issued and I was a non person. I of course could do A-E, but I couldn't get the declare reviewed or looked into. There was no IJC or CJC post yet. I was deadfiled by the SO1 line. (pretty impressive when you think about it) Of course I had a huge freeloader debt again. So pretty much decided to get on with my life and forget about Scientology. I got married. I had a kid. I was doing okay. Then I got called in to the mission again.:bigcry: I was to get some good news.:unsure:
This would have been just before 1982. There were changes in the church that I should know about. There was a new post The International Justice Chief and I could ask for a comm ev. There also was an issue being applied to freeloaders debts, where the time served on post could be reduced from your debt. So it was possible that I could get the SP declare handled and I could get my freeloader debt reduced. :happydance: Wow. I might be able to get back on lines as public and move up the bridge. :happydance: Wow. I guess I was right. The church needed some changes and now it was getting them. :yes:
I got my comm ev. My declare was lifted. I was told that I wasn't staff qualled until I got through OT3. I paid off my new reduced freeloader debt.:eyeroll: I was public in good standing. I got some auditing. I got some training. I don't really remember too well. Other stuff was happening that I wasn't aware of. David Mayo got busted and Story of a Squirrel was released. That was just weird.:yes: The upstat Mission Holders got busted and declared. :ohmy: What was that going to solve? There were people who seemed very happy about all of this and I suppose it could explain some of the things that didn't make sense. :nervous: It's kinda like things just get a bit better if you have someone to blame. So now that we had Martin Samuels, Kingsley Wimbush, and all of the other successful mission holders out of the way, the church could expand. :duh: WTF??:duh: Now, I didn't know they all got busted. I just knew that the ones I knew were busted. It took a while to put the pieces together from the outside. Meanwhile the Finance Police moved into the Orgs too. Some very successful Org Execs got removed from post too. I didn't really want to be on lines, but I was kinda waiting to see if things really did get better. :whistling:
The Dentists and Chiropractors started showing up. Sorry, that was weird for me too. :eyeroll: I really liked being non-mainstream. I was seriously counting on Scientology to not sell out to the broad public nine to fivers. It took a few years but eventually I got "handled". :thumbsup: Yep I would be back on staff again. :duh: The contact assist is still getting change I suppose.
I'll be back later.
Good Twin
 

Good twin

Floater
Very interesting posts. Thanks.

Well, you know how it turns out. I never felt the need to tell you how I arrived where we met. I'm glad you know. We still friends?:unsure: You see by the time I met you, I was upstat and good twin again, Sorta. :wink2: And yeah I didn't like the doctors. I married one anyway. So there!
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Didn't we talk about this recently - I DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE, just not my nature, nor my place. My past isn't exactly spotless. The statute of limitations have ran out or if you're not caught in the act they can't prosecute. :melodramatic:

I was so afraid of being "kicked out" of the CofS, I didn't really do anything "wrong". When you're stuck with the idea that the CofS is your only hope, you'll do anything to stay in. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. :confused2:

Live and learn - just took me 19 years. :p
 

Good twin

Floater
I remember my kid one time telling me that the problem with school is that they don't tell you the rules until you break them. Scientology was like that for me in the early years. I kept getting kicked out of the sandbox, but not off the playground. The rules weren't clearly defined except for from a tech VP. The auditor's code sure. 24 hour rule. That was really pretty much it. anything else was just a matter of "Viewpoints". On an MAA route at Flag one time the MAA had culled my folder and said "Oh, I see from your folder you used to be promiscuous."
I said "well, yeah that's true."
Then she said "was that Before you got into Scientology?"
I said "No, but it was before 'The Way to Happiness'." :yes:
There's plenty of stuff left out. Good and bad. It was really very fun most of the time and I met so many people and went so many places and experienced things that I know I wouldn't have if I hadn't found Scientology. That doesn't make it right or good or wholesome. It just is. I might not have spent the rest of my life smoking pot on the beach, but I might have. :eyeroll:
I'm glad to be here now however I got here. At least I am today.:yes:
Good Twin
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I do resonate with your story. I also called mine "in and out" too. :D Were we doing a contact assist then? Ah well....it finally worked and we are well again. :thumbsup:
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
I remember my kid one time telling me that the problem with school is that they don't tell you the rules until you break them. Scientology was like that for me in the early years.

I know the feeling. Trying to obey the rules, and then not even certain that you know all the rules.

And then thinking, to hell with the rules....

I'm glad to be here now however I got here. At least I am today.:yes:

And that's how I got here :D

Thanks for telling your story. :thumbsup:
 

Good twin

Floater
I guess the theme here is one that some may not know of. As some of you have seen I was in and out and in and out and in. Some of the people here were in and then out. Just because you are out doesn't mean you are going to stay out. I think it's more likely you will stay out now. There is so much information available on the internet that before would have taken years of research. But I notice here there are still quite a few who are only sort of out. You know you have the "tech is good but management sucks" types. You have the "maybe the church can be rehabilitated" types. Arnie Lerma talks about the different phases a person goes through to get out of Scientology. I went through those phases but only like one per decade. I left once because the tech wasn't being applied correctly. I left another time because there were SPs in management. I left another time because the tech was flawed...management was flawed...ethics tech was being misapplied.. the policies on justice were perverted....Maybe Scientology doesn't deliver what it promises because it can't. Maybe LRH never intended for it to. Anyway, without the resources that you guys have today, (that we all have today) It was hard to unravel the ball of yarn without going back to inspect it over and over and over.
There is a tape by LRH called "Talk to World Wide Ethics Officers". Didn't used to be available to public at all. Not really many staff have heard it that I know of. Some of you guys here probably have. In that tape Ron says to promise the public whatever they want. Promise them absolutely anything at all. Tell them the bridge will handle whatever they want handled and give them any ability they want or can imagine. Most people will have wins and forget what they wanted handled to begin with. If they bring it up again and still want it addressed you just tell them that somewhere along the way it will be addressed to just keep doing the bridge. :yes:
At some point almost every Scientologist I know stopped wanting something from the bridge and just wanted the bridge. The bridge itself became the only worthwhile goal. The bridge was no longer a means to achieve your goals. "You have to be OT to go OT." Every reg and FSM on the planet agrees with this. So here's the real secret of the universe. Once you are being OT you don't have to bother going OT. Shhhh.......
I'll get back to my story soon. The next chapter has a special appearance by one of you FCDC guys favorite characters.:whistling:
Good Twin
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the quote from the tape, Good Twin. No wonder they don't deliver what they promise. They are basically promising the moon and they really can't get that damn cow to jump over it. LOL!!!

If I'd known years ago about all the data on the net, I may have gotten out sooner. I was in better shape, spiritually, before doing Grade 4 in 2004. That's for damn certain.
 

Good twin

Floater
Thanks for the quote from the tape, Good Twin. No wonder they don't deliver what they promise. They are basically promising the moon and they really can't get that damn cow to jump over it. LOL!!!

If I'd known years ago about all the data on the net, I may have gotten out sooner. I was in better shape, spiritually, before doing Grade 4 in 2004. That's for damn certain.

Well, I love you just the way you are....and the way you were....and the way you will be. :yes: The future is looking brighter every day ImOut. Talk to you soon, hun.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Yep, I agree with the 'various stages of out' types. I, myself sometimes go back and forth...but you know what? The more I read on the Net, the more realizations I get, that ALL of Scamology is a scam, you know? I mean, I always say: 'Well, the basic stuff is good, communications course info, assists info, stuff like that...' yet I rarely even use THAT anymore (exactly like the PL's tell you to, anyway).

THIS is my first time 'OUT' (and my last). I couldn't imagine being 'in' then 'out' several times, geez!

Yesterday, hubby and I were driving and admiring how good our lives are..and how if we'dve never blew, we'd STILL be sitting at our desks doing call-in, or out in the Miami heat and humidity selling books, doing promo, bodyrouting, starving, living with roommates, etc.etc....:yes:

The guilt of 'living in the wog world and Not Clearing The Planet' has left us...took several years....but it's GONE! We laugh more often now....some days do NOTHING, too :omg:

KEEP telling your story, GT, can't wait for the next installment!:yes:
 

Pixie

Crusader
Part1 (How I justify becoming a Scientologist)

I first got into Scientology in 1975. The mission was a very busy and exciting place. it also seemed very efficient and organized. It was friendly and the staff were well dressed and looked well taken care of. That's how I remember it and it all gradually morphed into a very surreal and scarey nightmare.

At the mission there were four Class 8 auditors, and at least three Class 6 auditors. There were 4s all over the place, but not in the HGC. Where are the auditors today? Over the past 30 years the products of Scientology have changed into something that would not be recognizable if I hadn't been part of the gradual change. Even in the so called "upstat" Orgs and missions, there are no auditors anymore. Oh there are a few, but not nearly what there was 30 years ago .

See, it used to be that the only training we did was the training of auditors. Selling books was a way to create interest and get people in for training. It also established the criterion of literacy. People who came on course were expected to have read books. That is about the importance of it. On the Comm Course you did TRs. TRs were developed for auditors. You could use them in life and it would increase your ARC with anyone. Becoming an auditor was the solution to any and all personal interactions. There were no life improvement courses. The thing that improves life is auditing. Giving and receiving auditing was not just the main course. It was the entire meal. There wasn't much attention on social reform or PR or anything else.

As a Course Supervisor (grundy can back me up on this) there are a couple of key policies. The Supervisor's Code and Supervisor's Stable Data. Do they even read that anymore? If so how can they justify filling a course room with people reading basic books? The policy says to throw the students in over their heads and demand results on the PC. There is no reason to have them read every book and clear every word and drill every process within an inch of their lives before putting them in session and seeing a result. Today there are people who have been in Scientology for years before they ever get or give a session. In 1975-1977 the course rooms were full of co-audits. I mean full. There wasn't anything else going on.
It was fun too. You gave up bowling or watching TV or doing drugs or whatever because learning to audit and auditing was so much more fun. It didn't have to be ordered or enforced particularly. Yes, sometimes there was CI or out ethics and it wasn't a big deal. You routed to someone who would help you sort things out. If you refused handling you left. No one threatened you or made you guilty. There were occasional flaps but not much drama. We used to say "Scientology isn't for everybody" and just left it at that.

Anyway, as you all know this is a pretty naive and simplistic view of Scientology. There was obviously other stuff going on that I was completely unaware of. But this is my starting point. This is what I observed when I came in as contrasted by what I see today. Both observations are only surface observations. It will take some time to fill in all the stuff. I am coming to realize how my involvement evolved. From here I will continue to unravel what I experienced. This will include joining staff, training at Flag, being offloaded, comm eved, declared, recovered, awarded, applauded, attacked from within and without and bunch of other stuff. It will take some time but I need to get through it.
Thanks for listening everyone. I'll be back soon.
Good Twin
Yes, we're listening. Thank god I found this site again, I've tried two others but have been waiting now for days for the 'administrators' to allow me to write anything. Good job I'm not suicidal, I'm desperate to talk with ex scientologists, my heart is broken, I was on staf for a decade and got booted out for asking too many questions, I only 'woke up' a year ago because a friend sent me some stuff to read but he won't talk with me anymore. It's really lonely out here. We all need to talk about it, it's the only way we're going to heal. There are periods of that decade I can't even remember I must have been so traumatized. A friend in Canada sent me this link and he knows nothing of the cult. I told him I was having trouble finding somewhere someone to talk with about my experiences and he sent me this link. I then found that I was already registered with this site, must have been shortly after I woke up but I just couldn't talk about it. Now I'm ready to talk about it, if I don't talk about it I'm going to burst. We are all very brave souls, good souls, all we wanted to do was help. It's a total tragedy, heartwrenching tragedy. My heart goes out to every one of you. I'll be back later with more.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Hey Pixie! Welcome to ESMB :happydance:

There are hundreds of exes here and we all "get it".

Take your time, settle in, grab a cuppa and write/post anything you want! :thumbsup:
 

Pixie

Crusader
Thank you so much for the welcome. It's taken me over a year to even talk about it, I've been off staff now for almost ten years, and would have gone to my grave defending it had it not been for someone sending me a few links over a period of six months which I reluctantly read. I was still brainwashed, almost ten years out and still defending it :duh: madness. And when I finally did 'wake-up', I cried for weeks on end and had no one to talk with, well I couldn't talk about it really. This is the right site for me for sure and I am relieved beyond words that I do in fact have other people to talk with as I am still shocked and heartbroken. I mean does the feeling of 'loss' ever go away? I lost my husband, and before that I lost the love of my life because we were split up because being 'in love' was .. 'other fish to fry', I still hate that statement.. and of course, all my scientology friends, loved them all, even the bad ones, cos the bad ones.. well we all know they were only following orders.. Yes Emma, a cup of strong coffee on the way.. and a ciggy, deep breaths.... thanks again.. :D
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, we're listening. Thank god I found this site again, I've tried two others but have been waiting now for days for the 'administrators' to allow me to write anything. Good job I'm not suicidal, I'm desperate to talk with ex scientologists, my heart is broken, I was on staf for a decade and got booted out for asking too many questions, I only 'woke up' a year ago because a friend sent me some stuff to read but he won't talk with me anymore. It's really lonely out here. We all need to talk about it, it's the only way we're going to heal. There are periods of that decade I can't even remember I must have been so traumatized. A friend in Canada sent me this link and he knows nothing of the cult. I told him I was having trouble finding somewhere someone to talk with about my experiences and he sent me this link. I then found that I was already registered with this site, must have been shortly after I woke up but I just couldn't talk about it. Now I'm ready to talk about it, if I don't talk about it I'm going to burst. We are all very brave souls, good souls, all we wanted to do was help. It's a total tragedy, heartwrenching tragedy. My heart goes out to every one of you. I'll be back later with more.

Yes, it can be very lonely not knowing who to talk to. And I have found this place to be very therapeutic, in the short time I have been here. I hope it helps you, too.

Tragedy is a good way to explain it. The Co$ taking peoples desire to help, and stomping on it, but ever so gradiently, so as not to notice, until they have a lot of robots. And robots can be helpful, to some degree, but they don't understand the human condition :coolwink:
 
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MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
[...]
There is a tape by LRH called "Talk to World Wide Ethics Officers". Didn't used to be available to public at all. Not really many staff have heard it that I know of. Some of you guys here probably have. In that tape Ron says to promise the public whatever they want. Promise them absolutely anything at all. Tell them the bridge will handle whatever they want handled and give them any ability they want or can imagine. Most people will have wins and forget what they wanted handled to begin with. If they bring it up again and still want it addressed you just tell them that somewhere along the way it will be addressed to just keep doing the bridge. :yes:
[...]

That's the con. I would love to read a transcript of that tape. How many of us would have lost so much time/money with Scientology(tm), if not for hyped promises? :grouch:

Maybe that's why Free zone isn't powerful (money wise) as the Church - you have to con people to grab their money and life and free people are somewhat reluctant to do that.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Yes, it can be very lonely not knowing who to talk too. And I have found this place to be very therapeutic, in the short time I have been here. I hope it helps you, too.

Tragedy is a good way to explain it. The Co$ taking peoples desire to help, and stomping on it, but ever so gradiently, so as not to notice, until they have a lot of robots. And robots can be helpful, to some degree, but they don't understand the human condition :coolwink:

Thanks for that, yes that's an excellent way of putting it, stomping all over one's desire to help. I find it very difficult to articulate a lot of what I went through still however indeed so far this is a very therapeutic site and I'm sure in time it will all trickle out. I've not been able to hold down a job since I got booted out, (well I say I got booted out, I did, but it didn't stop them continuing to follow me or bang my front door in to get me to go back, confusing or what!) or be in groups of people without having panic attacks.. well that's another thread I think, musn't get carried away!:hurt:
 
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