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Gib

Crusader
Don't forget that Debbie had one of the finest lawyers in Texas if not the whole country. She would not have gone up on the stand to say what she did if Jeffreys had said no. I am sure he knew that the gag order was unenforcable as 1)She was under duress, 2) Did not have legal counsel to consult as regards the NDA. I am sure that Jeffereys had his strategy ready for that at any stage of the game.

On the other point, representatives of the CO$ lie. They have done it from the first lawsuit, hell, the first book written by Hubbard so for them to say she received nothing for her troubles is just bullshit. How did Jeffreys get paid for his work? Would he have taken Mosey's case on the same basis if Debbie's became a freebie?

I am not convinced that Debbie wrote that email as an attempt to restore Scientology to LRH perfection (take that to mean what you want). She took a calculated risk and I will bet she had Jeffrey's in her sights before she took that risk or otherwise she was wide open to Fair Game relentless style. I can't see Debbie doing a selfless act for the good of others and that is why I am convinced she contrived the whole thing, she is a good actress, she got people to come to Flag thinking their probems would be solved. She had Scientologists going to her website, she was an opinion leader so she could have just kept going on the same path as she was. She didn't change a thing within the CO$ management or application of policy and tech so really, she just got a payoff. If she had received nothing, she would not be on that beach because she was in finacial trouble before she fired that email.
You think Debbie is still moving up the bridge?

I would agree with that. I figured she must have been in contact with maybe M&M, Karen, Jeff, etc. I don't know.

One has to figure once she left, and since her business was designing websites, she must have researched the internet. And she probably read a lot here, OCMB, XenuTv, etc. The books.

And her message is definitely step 1 of Arnie's step out of scientology passages.

But I think she did do it for the good of helping others.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Don't forget that Debbie had one of the finest lawyers in Texas if not the whole country. She would not have gone up on the stand to say what she did if Jeffreys had said no. I am sure he knew that the gag order was unenforcable as 1)She was under duress, 2) Did not have legal counsel to consult as regards the NDA. I am sure that Jeffereys had his strategy ready for that at any stage of the game.

On the other point, representatives of the CO$ lie. They have done it from the first lawsuit, hell, the first book written by Hubbard so for them to say she received nothing for her troubles is just bullshit. How did Jeffreys get paid for his work? Would he have taken Mosey's case on the same basis if Debbie's became a freebie?

I am not convinced that Debbie wrote that email as an attempt to restore Scientology to LRH perfection (take that to mean what you want). She took a calculated risk and I will bet she had Jeffrey's in her sights before she took that risk or otherwise she was wide open to Fair Game relentless style. I can't see Debbie doing a selfless act for the good of others and that is why I am convinced she contrived the whole thing, she is a good actress, she got people to come to Flag thinking their probems would be solved. She had Scientologists going to her website, she was an opinion leader so she could have just kept going on the same path as she was. She didn't change a thing within the CO$ management or application of policy and tech so really, she just got a payoff. If she had received nothing, she would not be on that beach because she was in finacial trouble before she fired that email.

You think Debbie is still moving up the bridge?

I don't think Debbie had Jefferies in her "sights" as her mail was sent out before she had heard of Jefferies. IIRC someone gave Jefferies as a recomendation and passed that on to Marty.

Much commentary on Debbie "folding". It was CO$ that folded. If Debbie
just said I'll not sign any new NDA agreements what could CO$ do? They clearly would not want to restart the case.

Looks like Debbie was too physically and mentally weak to continue. Maybe Jefferies told CO$ that they settle or he'll have her on the stand for another couple of weeks. Maybe one day we'll know.

I'm happy she got her mail out and described the "hole" and DM's vindictiveness in open court and on a major TV network.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Just sayin'


I appreciate everyone's input on this. I don't care if you agree with me, or totally disagree. All input is valuable.

And here we can evaluate information and do not have to have ideas forced down our throats.

Ah, what freedom!!! :coolwink:
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Just sayin'


I appreciate everyone's input on this. I don't care if you agree with me, or totally disagree. All input is valuable.

And here we can evaluate information and do not have to have ideas forced down our throats.

Ah, what freedom!!! :coolwink:

Totally agree!!!!
 

freethinker

Sponsor
It was my understanding that Marty gave the recommendation. It would make sense that Marty would have scoped out lawyers long before any tanglement with the CO$, I know I would if I knew what Marty knows.

Don't know how you would know when Debbie knew of Jeffreys. Even if you are in contact with Marty or Debbie, I doubt that would be the subject of any conversation you might have had with either. Can't see any reason to show your cards before you play them. Debbie would definitely not have discussed it after.


I think she helped expose Scientology with that email and resulted in much good but I have real doubts she did it to help others.




I don't think Debbie had Jefferies in her "sights" as her mail was sent out before she had heard of Jefferies. IIRC someone gave Jefferies as a recomendation and passed that on to Marty.

.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
--snipped--

Much commentary on Debbie "folding". It was CO$ that folded.


Sure, the COS folded.

But, Debbie Cook folded too.

As is the practice of Scientologists, they both got what they "postulated"--more money.

Debbie got some unspecified millions for not blowing the whistle, as she threatened she would do in the infamous New Year's Eve letter.

On the other hand, the COS also received a financial bonanza by paying out a few million dollars over time "in exchange for" the right to continue running their donation schemes and rampant fraud. Whatever they paid to Cook they can fraudulently raise--in a couple weeks, a couple days or a couple hours--and everything after that is pure profit--just the way they like it. A ponzi game where everybody wins (at least everybody who counts).

Despite all the theoretical and tortured logic about what Debbie Cook may or may not have been thinking--is is extremely easy to know what Debbie Cook was doing:

* While inside the COS she profited personally as parishioners suffered financial ruin.

* After leaving the COS she profited personally as parishioners suffered financial ruin.

There is no difference, only a whole lot of confused Scientologists and Indie Scientologists standing around trying to figure it out how to plug it into their personal brand of cognitive dissonance.


Simple explanation: If it's about Scientology it's about money. The only exception is this--during the occasional moments Scientology is not about money, it's about lying (to others and self).

Oh, I can hear the outcry of protests now about that last line. LOL. "….but some Scientologists really believe in what they are doing!!!!" So? So what? That doesn't change WHAT they are doing. If you don't get that, unplug your e-meter and don't read Scientology for a few weeks (Pab 6-S remedy for "S"cientologists that are overwhelmed and overrestimulated by their own pretend "tech")


 
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Gib

Crusader


On the other hand, the COS also received a financial bonanza by paying out a few million dollars over time "in exchange for" the right to continue running their donation schemes and rampant fraud. Whatever they paid to Cook they can fraudulently raise--in a couple weeks, a couple days or a couple hours--and everything after that is pure profit--just the way they like it. A ponzi game where everybody wins (at least everybody who counts).



yah, didn't think of that one. :angry:

And over on Mike Rinder's blog, like today,

Mike keeps exposing leaked messages where the COS is asking for donations
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I appreciate your point here, FT, and, as I said in one of my posts, I feel that Debbie Cook has some responsibility for Greg Beshaw's death. I'm sure everything you are saying is accurate. But, unless I am mistaken, my understanding is that the church sued Debbie for breach of contract for speaking out after she'd signed an agreement. I'm genuinely asking for anyone who knows - didn't that put her at great risk if a judge found in the church's favor and decided that she had to pay the earlier money back? This seems very risky to me.

I definitely don't want to defend Debbie Cook - maybe she got exactly what she deserved when she got put in the Hole, and some people laughed their asses off when she arrived because of all the shit she pulled before. Maybe they couldn't wait to get her in that trash can and "toss they little rice and beans on her" and when Miss Thing asked for help, it was too late- like that quote about, "When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, etc, and then there was no one left when they came for me."

I'm not saying I feel sorry for her. Feel contempt for what she did - absolutely, but there seems a lot of contempt for her for settling with the church - and my argument again is what is the proper contrition for a life in Scientology? I think this discussion is a good one, because I've sometimes seen Debbie Cook as a hero, on the level of Amy Scobee, Mark Headley, etc, and perhaps I needed to be disabused on that notion. Maybe the point you all are making here is the same you would feel if Scientology had paid Mark Headley to keep quiet and end his lawsuit (although, working at Gold Base in production, I don't think Mark ever hurt anyone personally except those who still have to listen to LRH's tapes) or if Laura Decrescenzo takes a settlement to keep her silent. The whole thing seems like such a messy business, and there is always the idea that Scientology and it's billion dollars could keep someone in court for decades.

But still, I ask, wasn't it risky at some for Debbie to testify? I feel some people don't give her any credit - whereas, her testimony was national news, and brought real attention to the Hole. Someone, please, educate me. :duh:

Great question, and the only answer I have is from interactions with Debbie and a couple of her friends, and observing the trial. They were going to use Under Duressas the conditions she signed her NDA. Just that alone sounds really challenging. It did to me, before the trial. They did tell me that much.

Then the last piece of the puzzle came at the trial - she was going to drop major bombs. Folks like us (never been RPF'd) think of a workplace situation and an NDA. I've signed them. And it would be pretty hard for me to break them. I would think the Under Duress approach has a lot of precedent, but nothing like this. I'd take a wild guess and say this is one of the most extreme examples of Duress that has been presented in an American court. Her being tortured and humiliated and all that she testified about was a huge game changer. No one outside of scientology had heard of such a workplace situation, and it went global. Well, then it all made perfect sense. Of course the cult (DM) would want her off the stand NOW. And that was how it played out.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
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zoc8.jpg
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Live Jazz on the Beach

May 17, 2013 By Debbie Baumgarten Leave a Comment

There’s a cute little restaurant on the beach near our place that has live Jazz musicians performing every Sunday. So we went by and thoroughly enjoyed a due of a great keyboardist and sax player, along with some great food and drinks. Here’s a short clip.

[video=youtube;0OwljAO6ADY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OwljAO6ADY[/video]
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
One thing I can't wrap my head around.

Usually in ongoing fraud or donation schemes, there are many people who benefit financially. Or perhaps just one that benefits enormously . . . multi-millions enormously. And somewhat in the open with Bentleys, villas all over the world, and a very splashy visible lifestyle. I don't see the money trail enriching many people here. You have DM and his lawyers that benefit and everyone else is in a slave status.

All I see is what I can only describe as a net worth mulching machine for the benefit of one. Sorta running on auto-pilot at this point on the strength of written COS policies. Can you help me out here? :confused2:
 
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In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
does debbie or her husband have family?
i assume not... no aging parents that would benefit from someone who never had to work again and could take care of them?
i guess that is what pops into my head.
no that what pops into my head matters that much really, lol.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Photo in the dictionary alongside the definition of: shit-eatin' grin.

02-Wayne-Chillin-on-the-Deck.jpg


Happy dog too.

Life is not always fair and just . . . is it? :unsure:
 
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Anonycat

Crusader
Oh that poor dog! Buster had a long drive in the car.

March 25, 2013

As you probably can see, Buster is exhausted after a 3,600 mile car trip travelling coast to coast across the Continental US. I have to say that Buster is the 4th dog that Debbie and I have had over the last decade or two and is by far the most wonderful. He is amazing in car travel. As soon as the car starts moving he flops down and passes out into a deep sleep. As soon as the car stops moving, no matter how many hours later, he immediately wakes up, sits up and starts looking around. He does enjoy his nap time as you can see in the photo. Truth be told all of us were a bit worn out from travelling and very glad to get to our new destination.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I hope the photos with dates is interesting to someone here. If you were wondering about where they went and when, you're probably thinking all the photos are in some way interesting.

ru7f.jpg


July 30, 2012 By Wayne Baumgarten Leave a Comment

We visited St Lucia briefly. It was an interesting experience. We saw the tourist zone, which was fabulous and you can see in the photos. We also took a rental car and drove some of the roads and saw fairly sour looking islanders. It was more of the split personality of the caribbean- poverty and wealth side by side. Debbie and I drive a fiat panda, similar to a lot of the islanders. However its not that uncommon to see BMW X6′s and brand new range rovers hogging along the tiny roads. Anyhow in my Saint Lucia driving experience I found the roads were some of the hardest I have ever driven, and that’s saying something considering the roads here in Guadeloupe.It’s harder because in St Lucia they are driving English style, on the left. But even so the roads were fantastically twisty, narrow and with deep ditches or good sized drop offs without guard rails. So you definitely want to be paying attention.

8xz3.jpg
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Sure, the COS folded.

But, Debbie Cook folded too.

As is the practice of Scientologists, they both got what they "postulated"--more money.


Not so. I'd say Debbie's mail dented CO$ income.

I don't think Debbie was trying to obtain any money

"I am not trying to do anything other than affect a change in serious off policy actions occurring. My husband and I have most of our family and many many good friends who are Scientologists. I have not been real interested in sticking my neck out like this."

Also those in the Independent/FZ are mostly not money motivated and struggle to make ends meet without support. For example Marty who
was considered good enough to audit TC,JC and KA.

Debbie got some unspecified millions for not blowing the whistle, as she threatened she would do in the infamous New Year's Eve letter.

Just read again and didn't see such a promise?

On the other hand, the COS also received a financial bonanza by paying out a few million dollars over time "in exchange for" the right to continue running their donation schemes and rampant fraud. Whatever they paid to Cook they can fraudulently raise--in a couple weeks, a couple days or a couple hours--and everything after that is pure profit--just the way they like it. A ponzi game where everybody wins (at least everybody who counts).

This was business as usual.

Despite all the theoretical and tortured logic about what Debbie Cook may or may not have been thinking--is is extremely easy to know what Debbie Cook was doing:

* While inside the COS she profited personally as parishioners suffered financial ruin.

* After leaving the COS she profited personally as parishioners suffered financial ruin.

Fair comment.


There is no difference, only a whole lot of confused Scientologists and Indie Scientologists standing around trying to figure it out how to plug it into their personal brand of cognitive dissonance.


Simple explanation: If it's about Scientology it's about money. The only exception is this--during the occasional moments Scientology is not about money, it's about lying (to others and self).

Debbie's mail was an attempt to address all this. Done more effectively than
most armchair critics and with more risk.

Oh, I can hear the outcry of protests now about that last line. LOL. "….but some Scientologists really believe in what they are doing!!!!" So? So what? That doesn't change WHAT they are doing. If you don't get that, unplug your e-meter and don't read Scientology for a few weeks (Pab 6-S remedy for "S"cientologists that are overwhelmed and overrestimulated by their own pretend "tech")

Your statement of what they are doing is your belief. Its very incomplete.
 
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