For New Scios OUT: How OSA flies on the Net

[AnonKat]

I swear to god I'm being very honest and very sincere.

And I was impulsive sorry Alanzo

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Have you been in a minority position here on ESMB before Gadfly?

Have you ever been in a position that was not popular?

It's not a nice place to be as long as people can insult you and turn everything you say into a something you never said and never meant, and do what ever they can to make you appear totally ridiculous - even when they twist your words and lie about you.

It is BRUTAL.

I can take it. I've taken it for years.

And I can certainly dish it out, too.

But, if we are going to have a robust and constructive set of discussions with many different viewpoints - even minority viewpoints - then this shit has to stop.

I'm sure that you see the point I am making to you.

So please, don't pile on when there is absolutely no constructive purpose to doing so.

Alanzo

Alanzo, that happens to me here often.

Just yesterday I had someone posting right after my posts on one thread calling me a liar and a troll.

A week or two ago I was accused of defending child abuse.

And these were by people who agreed with me (I kid Emma's crew).

The thing to do is not respond with the same harshness you receive.

I haven't been perfect at that, but at least I tried.

And I kept at it until I made everyone see the errors of their ways (I kid the scammed).

But sometimes a person is simply whining.

And then whines some more when people tell them their whining.

You observations are astute, but they are one sided.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I understand what happened.

And I can totally understand why you made the decisions that you have made.

But those decisions have the same consequences that you were aware of earlier.

I see no reason for you NOT to engage in debate.

None whatsoever.

But I'm sorry, if you want minority viewpoints here that you do not necessarily agree with, you must be more careful than most of the posters here.

Defending Emma = Defending "ESMB"

Too often, people who disagree with Emma = People who are out to destroy ESMB.

Again, I know I'm not telling you anything that you do not already know.

Jus sayin.

Alanzo

Bullshit.

What people are defending is truth and honesty.

I think you are intentionally being intellectually dishonest since you have been back.

You have lost your touch.

I agree with you about this not being the vanguard of attacks on the Church.

But that was only one thing that this board provided from the past, and it wasn't why I was here.

It so much better that other institutions whose job it is to do that are now doing there job.

If this board is so bad then just leave.

What is keeping you here?

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

When you see "sly digs" it's because you want to.

When your pals engage in actual "sly digs," it's somehow tolerable to you, or you celebrate them.

What once was a message board has become your club.

Stop your whining, please.

This is not a sly dig.

This is an outright statement to you that you complain about others and you yourself rarely present anything of substance other than your hurt feelings.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Watch out Veda, we're comin' to get ya'!

http://youtu.be/ad8weRWj3zk

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[degraded being]

Bullshit.

What people are defending is truth and honesty.

I think you are intentionally being intellectually dishonest since you have been back.

You have lost your touch.

I agree with you about this not being the vanguard of attacks on the Church.

But that was only one thing that this board provided from the past, and it wasn't why I was here.

It so much better that other institutions whose job it is to do that are now doing there job.

If this board is so bad then just leave.

What is keeping you here?

The Anabaptist Jacques

Stop you whining, please.

This is not a sly dig.

This is an outright statement to you that you complain about others and you yourself rarely present anything of substance other than you hurt feelings.

The Anabaptist Jacques

AFAICS they have already had the make up sex. You missed the best part.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

AFAICS they have already had the make up sex. You missed the best part.

Yeah.

But he made up the other day too and then started with the same bullshit today.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Emma]

AFAICS they have already had the make up sex. You missed the best part.

If you call a couple of non argumentative posts "make-up sex" then you are really missing out on one of life's great experiences.

 

[degraded being]

If you call a couple of non argumentative posts "make-up sex" then you are really missing out on one of life's great experiences.

Thanks FIFY.

AFAICS they have already hinted that foreplay could possibly start soon..er or later.

 

[degraded being]

Yeah.

But he made up the other day too and then started with the same bullshit today.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Welllllllllllllll......yeeeaahhhh.....I can sorta see where you're coming from......

 

[Free to shine]

Geez. It's all about personalities again.

... and it's still about personalities.

 

[Veda]

The most marginalised posters I've ever seen on ESMB are Mike Laws & Karen DLC. Both were hunted and taunted and ridiculed. I stood up for them both but probably not nearly enough. Karen was run off the board for months & Mike rarely posts here having had his bum burned more than a couple of times.

You wanna talk about how it feels? Ask those two people.

Oh please.

Both those individuals arrived at ESMB as official VIPs. Karen DLC was the PR/Propaganda person, Mike Laws, it seems, as I have recently discovered, operated mostly behind the scenes.

This established a kind of caste system, with a few "VIPs," an inner circle, and the great mass of common folk.

Many people left, most quietly. To remain was to agree to "get with the system."

Within the "system" there was a wide range of views that was acceptable, so one could get along pretty well, as long as one knew when to keep one's mouth shut.

It was a very destructive period, and the harm lingers. Mentioning it can be, to say the least, unpleasant. It's a taboo topic.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I was one of those classified by the two newly arrived VIPs, mentioned above, as an "SP" or its equivalent. Things, for me, on ESMB, would never be the same after that.

ESMB is still a unique place, and an important place for people leaving the Cof$, and a newbie can arrive here and none of this past manipulation and past drama will affect them. So ESMB still works, and still helps people, IMO. Thank goodness.

 

[clamicide]

Yes it does.

Clamicide, I know folks who wont mess with $cn, cause they have too much to lose. I know small few who wont mess with them because they KNOW what they are capable of... I once had a nice electronics business, I had a pile of clients, many told me they didn't want to deal with $cientology at all, my phone finally stopped ringing... And $cientology even moved a PI into the house across the street from ME and *I* was in DENIAL!! I wouldn't believe it...Until he moved out, and left a pile of multichannel digital video recording equipment in his dumpster (with all the Hard Disks removed)... No matter what they did, all I knew was, to keep going as best I could.

But I wouldn't miss this end game for the world...

Arnie Lerma

Thank you. Most of the stuff I know about the worst of OSA isn't my tale to tell, and I do understand why those who lived it aren't telling. I do dare to dream that one day it will all come out, but in the meantime, I know it means that some of us will look like paranoid nutters who like to exaggerate...

I have a feeling you know pretty much what I'm talking about.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Oh please.

Both those individuals arrived at ESMB as official VIPs. Karen DLC was the PR/Propaganda person, Mike Laws, it seems, as I have recently discovered, operated mostly behind the scenes.

This established a kind of caste system, with a few "VIPs," an inner circle, and the great mass of common folk.

Many people left, most quietly. To remain was to agree to "get with the system."

Within the "system" there was a wide range of views that was acceptable, so one could get along pretty well, as long as one knew when to keep one's mouth shut.

It was a very destructive period, and the harm lingers. Mentioning it can be, to say the least, unpleasant. It's a taboo topic.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I was one of those classified by the two newly arrived VIPs, mentioned above, as an "SP" or its equivalent. Things, for me, on ESMB, would never be the same after that.

ESMB is still a unique place, and an important place for people leaving the Cof$, and a newbie can arrive here and none of this past manipulation and past drama will affect them. So ESMB still works, and still helps people, IMO. Thank goodness.

Well Veda, I can't say that at the time this wasn't how it seemed to me too.

But I stuck around.

And you stuck around.

At the time, your posts were of substance, mine were not.

What I realized though, that I think perhaps some of the ones who left didn't realize, was that those who left were the ones creating the drama.

I don't think they should have left.

And I think they left because of some back channel crap that was going on.

My point is, that the board belongs to those who read it and post on it.

And it doesn't matter if there are cliques and cabals.

The only thing anyone can do or not do is say what's on their minds.

Lord knows we've all have felt the sting of antagonism from what seems like a lynch mob.

But all one can do is post.

And even those against you can only post.

Sure, you, Alanzo, Zinj, and some other good guys whose names I can't remember either left or got booted.

But the bottom line is all anyone can do is post or not post.

Back in those days I said some things extremely critical of Mike Laws and Karen.

But I said my peace and that was that.

But there is a clarity of mind that comes about when one continues to post despite everything.

I don't know what ever happened with Mike Laws.

And with Karen I realized that I had a prejudice against her because of how high she was in the Church.

Then I realized that the higher a person is in the Church then the harder it is for them to survive Scientology.

So just like the strength of people who rise to the top of any demanding organization Karen had a capacity for action and influence which I do not have.

To put it plainly, she is a player and I am a spectator.

I'm telling you, that especially because of the Scientology experience it is even more vital to be empathetic toward people here.

I try to put my hurt away and see the hurt others must be dealing with.

I'm not great at it; just look how I've insulted you.

But I keep trying.

And my wish for you is that you try too.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Anonycat]

Oh please.

Both those individuals arrived at ESMB as official VIPs. Karen DLC was the PR/Propaganda person, Mike Laws, it seems, as I have recently discovered, operated mostly behind the scenes.

This established a kind of caste system, with a few "VIPs," an inner circle, and the great mass of common folk.

Many people left, most quietly. To remain was to agree to "get with the system."

Within the "system" there was a wide range of views that was acceptable, so one could get along pretty well, as long as one knew when to keep one's mouth shut.

It was a very destructive period, and the harm lingers. Mentioning it can be, to say the least, unpleasant. It's a taboo topic.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I was one of those classified by the two newly arrived VIPs, mentioned above, as an "SP" or its equivalent. Things, for me, on ESMB, would never be the same after that.

ESMB is still a unique place, and an important place for people leaving the Cof$, and a newbie can arrive here and none of this past manipulation and past drama will affect them. So ESMB still works, and still helps people, IMO. Thank goodness.

Karen is the PR/Propaganda person? Are you just an ass blowing crap or do you have documentation of your slander and libel?

 

[Emma]

Oh please.

Both those individuals arrived at ESMB as official VIPs. Karen DLC was the PR/Propaganda person, Mike Laws, it seems, as I have recently discovered, operated mostly behind the scenes.

This established a kind of caste system, with a few "VIPs," an inner circle, and the great mass of common folk.

Many people left, most quietly. To remain was to agree to "get with the system."

Within the "system" there was a wide range of views that was acceptable, so one could get along pretty well, as long as one knew when to keep one's mouth shut.

It was a very destructive period, and the harm lingers. Mentioning it can be, to say the least, unpleasant. It's a taboo topic.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I was one of those classified by the two newly arrived VIPs, mentioned above, as an "SP" or its equivalent. Things, for me, on ESMB, would never be the same after that.

ESMB is still a unique place, and an important place for people leaving the Cof$, and a newbie can arrive here and none of this past manipulation and past drama will affect them. So ESMB still works, and still helps people, IMO. Thank goodness.

Amazing how people can see things so differently.

At the time I didn't have a clue what was going on, except that things were ugly. There were all these theories & boogie man stories flying around. Accusations of "being bought" and "selling out" and Ops etc. Mike Rinder & Marty Rathbun had a grand plan to take over ESMB apparently & I was the willing dupe. Karen had charmed me into a hypnotic trance and Mike Laws had bought my soul. I had sold out to Mike Rinder too (mustn't forget that). I had also been arrested on criminal charges that would have seen me face up to a 10 year jail term if convicted. Added to that you had a falling out in the ANZO crew (mainly to do with stuff happening with Carmel Underwood). It was a perfect storm.

Do you know how I see it now? Ignorance & fear. On both "sides".

The newly out Indies didn't know how to relate to long-time-out exes and vise versa. The Indies in question (or Indy OSA if you like ) were still peeling their own person onions and behaved like most newly out exes behave by still believing that it wasn't Hubbard's fault (tech good - management bad). But because of *who* they were they were viewed with suspicion. Mike Laws was beaten up pretty badly & then came Karen's turn (but that was a bit later from memory). Apparently I did the wrong thing by introducing Karen on a thread. This, to some, proved I was "in" on the game & had sold out my own board.

Even writing this gets my heart rate going. It was fucking awful. But looking back on it now I can kind of fit it all together & understand what happened (to some extent).

Yes people left & some were banned. I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this statement but it's probably time it was said. I'm GLAD some people left (whether voluntarily or involuntarily). The board had become cancerous & it was time for some Chemo. As someone said earlier (I can't recall who now) the board was rebuilt by those who stayed & those who joined AFTER this bullshit went down. Its not the same anymore. ESMB is different. We grew up.

This bad feeling needs to be put behind us Veda. There aren't too many people who like to still pick at the scab but you are one of them. If I can let it go, then I'm sure you can too. If not then perhaps you should think about moving on, especially if this place has become unpleasant for you. This is not a threat, merely a suggestion.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Amazing how people can see things so differently.

At the time I didn't have a clue what was going on, except that things were ugly. There were all these theories & boogie man stories flying around. Accusations of "being bought" and "selling out" and Ops etc. Mike Rinder & Marty Rathbun had a grand plan to take over ESMB apparently & I was the willing dupe. Karen had charmed me into a hypnotic trance and Mike Laws had bought my soul. I had sold out to Mike Rinder too (mustn't forget that). I had also been arrested on criminal charges that would have seen me face up to a 10 year jail term if convicted. Added to that you had a falling out in the ANZO crew (mainly to do with stuff happening with Carmel Underwood). It was a perfect storm.

Do you know how I see it now? Ignorance & fear. On both "sides".

The newly out Indies didn't know how to relate to long-time-out exes and vise versa. The Indies in question (or Indy OSA if you like ) were still peeling their own person onions and behaved like most newly out exes behave by still believing that it wasn't Hubbard's fault (tech good - management bad). But because of *who* they were they were viewed with suspicion. Mike Laws was beaten up pretty badly & then came Karen's turn (but that was a bit later from memory). Apparently I did the wrong thing by introducing Karen on a thread. This, to some, proved I was "in" on the game & had sold out my own board.

Even writing this gets my heart rate going. It was fucking awful. But looking back on it now I can kind of fit it all together & understand what happened (to some extent).

Yes people left & some were banned. I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this statement but it's probably time it was said. I'm GLAD some people left (whether voluntarily or involuntarily). The board had become cancerous & it was time for some Chemo. As someone said earlier (I can't recall who now) the board was rebuilt by those who stayed & those who joined AFTER this bullshit went down. Its not the same anymore. ESMB is different. We grew up.

This bad feeling needs to be put behind us Veda. There aren't too many people who like to still pick at the scab but you are one of them. If I can let it go, then I'm sure you can too. If not then perhaps you should think about moving on, especially if this place has become unpleasant for you. This is not a threat, merely a suggestion.

The bottom line is we are all a bunch of sapps.

We were when we got into Scientology and we still are to some degree.

I came to the conclusion some time ago that I am not as smart as I think I am.

And I prove that every day.

It will behoove us to all just take a deep breath and a time out and rethink why we are here.

I think we will be pleased with the answer.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[clamicide]

Amazing how people can see things so differently.

At the time I didn't have a clue what was going on, except that things were ugly. There were all these theories & boogie man stories flying around. Accusations of "being bought" and "selling out" and Ops etc. Mike Rinder & Marty Rathbun had a grand plan to take over ESMB apparently & I was the willing dupe. Karen had charmed me into a hypnotic trance and Mike Laws had bought my soul. I had sold out to Mike Rinder too (mustn't forget that). I had also been arrested on criminal charges that would have seen me face up to a 10 year jail term if convicted. Added to that you had a falling out in the ANZO crew (mainly to do with stuff happening with Carmel Underwood). It was a perfect storm.

Do you know how I see it now? Ignorance & fear. On both "sides".

The newly out Indies didn't know how to relate to long-time-out exes and vise versa. The Indies in question (or Indy OSA if you like ) were still peeling their own person onions and behaved like most newly out exes behave by still believing that it wasn't Hubbard's fault (tech good - management bad). But because of *who* they were they were viewed with suspicion. Mike Laws was beaten up pretty badly & then came Karen's turn (but that was a bit later from memory). Apparently I did the wrong thing by introducing Karen on a thread. This, to some, proved I was "in" on the game & had sold out my own board.

Even writing this gets my heart rate going. It was fucking awful. But looking back on it now I can kind of fit it all together & understand what happened (to some extent).

Yes people left & some were banned. I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this statement but it's probably time it was said. I'm GLAD some people left (whether voluntarily or involuntarily). The board had become cancerous & it was time for some Chemo. As someone said earlier (I can't recall who now) the board was rebuilt by those who stayed & those who joined AFTER this bullshit went down. Its not the same anymore. ESMB is different. We grew up.

This bad feeling needs to be put behind us Veda. There aren't too many people who like to still pick at the scab but you are one of them. If I can let it go, then I'm sure you can too. If not then perhaps you should think about moving on, especially if this place has become unpleasant for you. This is not a threat, merely a suggestion.

\\

@Emma:


I still don't know how you do it. Honestly. There have been times when I vehemently disagreed with some moves, but I did really go wtf to myself, because... I could NEVER even face running this board. Take a load off... kick up your feet... it's a miracle this place still somehow goes on.... girl, you just rock. Seriously.

 

[Free Being Me]

Please pick one of these quotes that speaks to you (not offered to anyone in particular).

“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
― Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers: Autobiographical Reflections

“The truth is, unless you let go, unless you forgive yourself, unless you forgive the situation, unless you realize that the situation is over, you cannot move forward.”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

“To err is human, to forgive, divine.”
― Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism

“Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.”
― Mark Twain

“The willingness to forgive is a sign of spiritual and emotional maturity. It is one of the great virtues to which we all should aspire. Imagine a world filled with individuals willing both to apologize and to accept an apology. Is there any problem that could not be solved among people who possessed the humility and largeness of spirit and soul to do either -- or both -- when needed?”
― Gordon B. Hinckley, Standing for Something: 10 Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Please pick one of these quotes that speaks to you (not offered to anyone in particular).

“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
― Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers: Autobiographical Reflections

“The truth is, unless you let go, unless you forgive yourself, unless you forgive the situation, unless you realize that the situation is over, you cannot move forward.”
― Steve Maraboli, Unapologetically You: Reflections on Life and the Human Experience

“To err is human, to forgive, divine.”
― Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism

“Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.”
― Mark Twain

“The willingness to forgive is a sign of spiritual and emotional maturity. It is one of the great virtues to which we all should aspire. Imagine a world filled with individuals willing both to apologize and to accept an apology. Is there any problem that could not be solved among people who possessed the humility and largeness of spirit and soul to do either -- or both -- when needed?”
― Gordon B. Hinckley, Standing for Something: 10 Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes

I'll never forgive you for this.

The Anabaptist Jacques