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Why all the abortions? Sea Org needs Babies

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
Of course Leyland,

I had my baby 30 years ago! There was no ban at that time on children in the SO.
There was also not much attention paid to out 2D really, where I was based, unless it created upset. That changed whilst I was there though as of course there had been lots of upsets!

It took me months when I first arrived in a fairly small unit, (about 40 people) to understand how many of the people and couples and had been involved with everyone else at some point!

It as like a soap opera! :ohmy:

Still

Was there a spate of pregnancies in the 1980's which may have led to the ban on children? If you and Nancy quit, maybe others did as well and they decided to stop that.
 

Leland

Crusader
We had a show in Aus ages ago called "Ask the Leyland Brothers." They drove a VW van all over Australia in the 70s. Now eveyone does that but at the time, they were travelling pioneers.

Now it is my turn to apologize. I didn't realize you were Australian. I'm a Yank... Nough said. :p
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
Now it is my turn to apologize. I didn't realize you were Australian. I'm a Yank... Nough said. :p

I like Yanks. I visited the West Coast and the Southwest a few months ago and I plan on visiting the East Coast in the Autumn, oh wait, in the Fall.

:)
 

still here

Patron with Honors
Was there a spate of pregnancies in the 1980's which may have led to the ban on children? If you and Nancy quit, maybe others did as well and they decided to stop that.

I have no idea I'm afraid. I left early 80s.

I was in the UK and often what drove Sea Org decisions happened in the larger SO communities of LA and Flag. I am sure people there can tell you.

If I was to guess though I would think that the fear of any bad publicity, child services or whatever getting involved, and in the UK I think the laws on childcare, and the attention on neglect had started to increase.

Along with that the fact that it was non-productive. (I think Lulu already said this)!

Children cost the Orgs money, for no product (at least for a few years), in many ways, not only their care, food, berthing and supervision, but their parents. Parents used to get an extra hour a day, after dinner, to be with their children. Where I lived you usually had to have this hour, just to organise, and feed the child, but mainly because the night nanny did not start until after family time, and all the children could not be left alone in the building.

So, possible outside trouble, upkeep, and parental time. Not a huge step to then say, lets not have them.

I am glad that they don't. I do not of course agree with forced abortion, but this rule stops young families joining (as they did in my day)

The SO is no place for children (or parents)

Still
 

Leland

Crusader
I like Yanks. I visited the West Coast and the Southwest a few months ago and I plan on visiting the East Coast in the Autumn, oh wait, in the Fall.

:)

I'm familiar with East Coast if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! I love traveling and seeing new places. If you get to Florida, say hello.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
I like Yanks. I visited the West Coast and the Southwest a few months ago and I plan on visiting the East Coast in the Autumn, oh wait, in the Fall.

:)

Just don't drive on I-95.

Jeezus.

I have to do that almost every day for work. The most miserable, misbegotten ribbon of highway straight outta hell I've ever driven on, and that includes the 401.

If you get to the Philly or NYC areas, PM me. Boston or DC even.
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
Was there a spate of pregnancies in the 1980's which may have led to the ban on children? If you and Nancy quit, maybe others did as well and they decided to stop that.

Not particularly, but there was a big influx of staff in the late 70s/early 80s and at that time there were no rules on how many children new recruits would bring, or any rules against pregnancies.

The bigger situation was that the children kept losing their nannies. The orgs did not want to give their better SO staff, and there were at least two perverts found on staff at the CEO around '82 or '83.

Temporary bans against pregnancies had taken place in the SO in the past.

So the number of children per nanny was more then 3X beyond the legal limit at PAC. AOLA started paying for outside babysitters and even some of the ASHO execs had outside babysitters.

I wrote about this at length in the past. It is an upsetting subject, but I was there and know firsthand how it all went down. I was one of the last to bear a child in the SO before the ban.

The CMO began conducting surveys on all SO crew about whether or not children were important to the SO, production and the future. The results went up to mgmt.

In order to try to curtail what was going to happen and help the children (who were terribly neglected in overcrowded, unsanitary conditions where they rarely left their cribs), I started a pilot as Exec Esto AOLA where I requested staff not become pregnant for one year so we could catch up and get more nannies. It was voluntary - there were no warnings, fines, penalties. It was stressed as a personal choice that was never to be an order and emphasized that it would only be a YEAR. One staff member got pregnant in that time and she was not penalised in any way, but she was asked to recruit a nanny and she did.

It was my hope and last-ditch effort that by giving us a one-year break without adding more children to the already severely overcrowded CEO, we could straighten out the CEO and help the kids. We also put a limit on the number of young children a recruit could join the SO with (I think it was two, but later the C/O AOLA changed it to none.)

It went well. The CEO started getting on top of things within months. The kids were doing better. Less than three months later, ASHO instituted a similar pilot. All was smooth. SO women were respected as this was their right and an individual choice. There was never even a thought of abortion - for God's sake! Abortion was completely contra-Dianetics!

Then before six months was up (the pilot was supposed to be for a year), ED Int (Guillaume LeSevre), under orders from DM, made it mandatory that SO staff could not get pregnant or they would be sent as Class IV org staff. There was no time limit. The CMO results plus whatever Flag data had gone uplines. So my idea to make it just a temporary thing failed.

We tried. We did everything we could for the kids, but Scientology's policies were abusive to children and there was no way to take care of the children well within the Sea Org while those abusive policies were always going to be followed, while Scientology was always more important than family, and while children were considered a burden and not essential to production. The Sea Org and Scientology were, and are, unchangeable.

Others who were at Flag at the time also have the story from Flag's POV. Apparently the same idea as mine had been brought up before and scrapped repeatedly - only to have it become a permanent order.... the one thing all of us in middle management tried so hard to prevent.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I have no idea I'm afraid. I left early 80s.

I was in the UK and often what drove Sea Org decisions happened in the larger SO communities of LA and Flag. I am sure people there can tell you.

If I was to guess though I would think that the fear of any bad publicity, child services or whatever getting involved, and in the UK I think the laws on childcare, and the attention on neglect had started to increase.

Along with that the fact that it was non-productive. (I think Lulu already said this)!

Children cost the Orgs money, for no product (at least for a few years), in many ways, not only their care, food, berthing and supervision, but their parents. Parents used to get an extra hour a day, after dinner, to be with their children. Where I lived you usually had to have this hour, just to organise, and feed the child, but mainly because the night nanny did not start until after family time, and all the children could not be left alone in the building.

So, possible outside trouble, upkeep, and parental time. Not a huge step to then say, lets not have them.

I am glad that they don't. I do not of course agree with forced abortion, but this rule stops young families joining (as they did in my day)

The SO is no place for children (or parents)

Still

Because CHILDREN ARE A DISTRACTION.

I cant tell you how many thousands of times I was told that.

It pulls people off post, off purpose.

I was Dev-T to my mom when I broke my foot. She had to come off post to take me to the doctor and get x-rays and a cast. I was 13 or 14.

------

Mid 80's at PAC kids were out of control. There were kids all over and they did as they pleased. The Cadet Org was not running for a while there and really the kids did whatever, including walking LA, staying up all night, getting drunk, etc etc. A lot of the kids were also not going to school. Some were signed up for public school but they would ditch (I did, all the time). And we had neighborhood friends who were not Scn and we would hang out at their house. NObody could find us because they had no idea where we would go.

One time when I was in 6th grade (however old that is) I was staying at a friends house and I ditched school entirely. I was gone away from my mom and PAC base for 3 months. My mom tracked me down and she was PISSED. She was not happy that I was ok, she was pissed that I vanished liked that. I figured she would not have even noticed. I did not even disappear out of spite. I just figured she was not around, so she would not notice. I think she noticed when the school started calling her and saying I was not in class.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
BINGO! :thumbsup:

Lulu, Still and Sheila have hit the nail on the head. :clap:

Kids cost dough, kids were a "distraction", kids were a legal liability, kids "caused trouble", kids were walking, talking, breathing potential "Shore Flaps". :eyeroll:

Better to let Scns fade the heat to raise kids until they were pliable, physically useful and easily exploitable with less risk, little contingent liability and more "up side". :angry:

Face:)
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm familiar with East Coast if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! I love traveling and seeing new places. If you get to Florida, say hello.

Will do. I was thinking I'd land in LA, meet up with some friends, and either fly to Florida, Texas or NYC and see the whole East Coast. I'll have about 6-7 weeks so hopefully I'll see a lot of the East Coast.

I'd love a tour of Super Powers ;)

Just don't drive on I-95.

Jeezus.

I have to do that almost every day for work. The most miserable. misbegotten ribbon of highway straight outta hell I've ever driven on, and that includes the 401.

If you get to the Philly or NYC areas, PM me. Boston or DC even.

Will do. I plan on seeing NYC again, Boston and DC (I have to see the Smithsonian). I want to see the Corning Museum in New York. I'm also tempted to see some of the countryside in Pennsylvania and New York State.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
BINGO! :thumbsup:

Lulu, Still and Sheila have hit the nail on the head. :clap:

Kids cost dough, kids were a "distraction", kids were a legal liability, kids "caused trouble", kids were walking, talking, breathing potential "Shore Flaps". :eyeroll:

Better to let Scns fade the heat to raise kids until they were pliable, physically useful and easily exploitable with less risk, little contingent liability and more "up side". :angry:

Face:)

Face, would you mind telling what happened at Flag when all of this went down? Would you mind writing down the project you were on and how it happened over there - as you explained to me? :yes: It would be much appreciated if you could. It belongs on this thread. x x x Sheila
 

Leland

Crusader
Will do. I was thinking I'd land in LA, meet up with some friends, and either fly to Florida, Texas or NYC and see the whole East Coast. I'll have about 6-7 weeks so hopefully I'll see a lot of the East Coast.

I'd love a tour of Super Powers ;)



Will do. I plan on seeing NYC again, Boston and DC (I have to see the Smithsonian). I want to see the Corning Museum in New York. I'm also tempted to see some of the countryside in Pennsylvania and New York State.

I live about 30 minutes from Clearwater. Be happy to explore it with you any time. :). My treat.
 

Leland

Crusader
post a picture.

I had a Dropbox account years ago and knew how to post pics. Now am on a cell phone and haven't figured it out yet. I did take a camera to Ron's birthday event and one Clearwater Police Officer was kind enough to take a pic of me holding me protest signs! I'll get my act together here soon and start posting pics! Tough to hold one or two protest signs and take pics too!
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
BINGO! :thumbsup:

Lulu, Still and Sheila have hit the nail on the head. :clap:

Kids cost dough, kids were a "distraction", kids were a legal liability, kids "caused trouble", kids were walking, talking, breathing potential "Shore Flaps". :eyeroll:

Better to let Scns fade the heat to raise kids until they were pliable, physically useful and easily exploitable with less risk, little contingent liability and more "up side". :angry:

Face:)

I am just replying to you so everyone can see Paul Newman's upper half. Face's legs match. Haha. This whole discussion is beyond barbaric. Kids are the reason for everything. They are the window to all that is good. I just melt every time I see my new twin grand daughters. If we all could only see the world through a child's eyes, we would not have anything to worry about.
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Face, would you mind telling what happened at Flag when all of this went down? Would you mind writing down the project you were on and how it happened over there - as you explained to me? :yes: It would be much appreciated if you could. It belongs on this thread. x x x Sheila

Sheila,

Kinda wish you hadn't brought this up...it was something I told you in confidence. I've generically given the "Brass Tax" about this in a few Posts a few years ago but, in the interests of my anonymity, have not gone into details.

Oh well, Que Sera, Sera.

I've got some IRL stuff I've gotta deal with over the next few days but, I promise you Sheila, I'll "Tell All" in the next few days.

There were SO Folks 35+ years ago that saw the Train Wreck that the SO Parent & Child Care was and stuck their necks out, worked their ass off and came up with some well thought out, decent and elegant solutions to fix it...Mary Sue was one of them...and El Ron shot it all down in flames.

Dearest Sheila, it's a good thing that you brought this up. The primary reason I walked away from the SO and Scn was because of my children and the willfully enforced deplorable conditions of SO children and parents. I knew, first hand, WHY that was and wasn't ever gonna change.

It's time for me, one last time, to "Speak Up" and "Lay Down My Burden".

Face:)

PS: After this, I think it may well be time for me to "Hang Up My Spurs". I, IMHO, have pretty much become a redundant Dinosaur, said just about all I've got to say and what little I've got left unsaid ain't all that "Sexy" and most likely of little interest or contemporary value in the Grand Scheme of things re: El Ron, SO and Scn.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
PS: After this, I think it may well be time for me to "Hang Up My Spurs". I, IMHO, have pretty much become a redundant Dinosaur, said just about all I've got to say and what little I've got left unsaid ain't all that "Sexy" and most likely of little interest or contemporary value in the Grand Scheme of things re: El Ron, SO and Scn.

No Face, No.
I "Hotly" disagree and will arm wrestle with you on this point.
There are always newer generations exiting, new Scientology watchers
sometimes just family, friends and relatives of the one locked inside...
It doesn't matter if you have said something before...
Your posts are vital.
You were THERE.
Do not agree that you "Hang Up Your Spurs" !
You are FORCING me to become COMBATIVE
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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