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David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books

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David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/iconic-ideal-spelling/#comment-47013
Mike Rinder says

May 1, 2014 at 10:08 pm

Dean — I can assure you, Miscavige has a very large vocabulary, is an extremely fast reader and is very intelligent. His high school “drop out” status was that he joined the Sea Org when he turned 16, not because he could not complete high school. After all, say what you will about his supposed incident on the internship at AOSHUK, the fact remains he was ON the Class IV Internship when he was 12. That is not someone who is slow. He reads a LOT of books. That he has a high IQ doesn’t mean he isn’t a sociopath. This idea he is some sort of village idiot incapable of putting a sentence together has some currency because of the “high school dropout” pigeon-holing. It’s just not true.
I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.

EDITED TO REMOVE ANY AMBIGUITY IN RESPONSE TO LORD XENU'S QUERY BELOW:

When I refer to the "enemy," I am referring to David Miscavige, and not Mike Rinder.
 
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Lord Xenu

Patron Meritorious
David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/iconic-ideal-spelling/#comment-47013
I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.


Who do you mean by enemy? Miscavige or Rinder?
:coolwink:. As I've said before,Rinder and Rathbun act like jilted lovers of Miscavige who have been dumped and can't quite come to terms with it.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
Ummm, I'd like a second opinion on the Miscavige intelligence level.

David Miscavige made a TV appearance. In my opinion, in the whole history of Scientology spokesmen or public relation, David Miscavige's performance was outstanding. He was light years better than any other PR people Scientology could offer during all this time.

I think David Miscavige is very intelligent in certain areas but stupid in others. His intelligence is not balanced at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWUasKX3FZE
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/iconic-ideal-spelling/#comment-47013
I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.

EDITED TO REMOVE ANY AMBIGUITY IN RESPONSE TO LORD XENU'S QUERY BELOW:

When I refer to the "enemy," I am referring to David Miscavige, and not Mike Rinder.

Intelligence is a multi-faceted subject. Two of the major divides seem to be "book" smarts and "street smarts". Book smarts has more to do with being exposed to formal education and books while street smarts has to do with survival skills having to do with competing for success out there in the game of life.

My opinion is that DM definitely has "street smarts". This was illustrated when he took over COS relatively easy after LRH passed. All the rivals who had power were easily swept away by him. Not many people could have pulled that off but he did it easily so he had street smarts.

As to book smarts, sure he was smart enough to complete high school and perhaps get a college degree but the fact is that he chose not to do this. Therefore, he did miss out on formal education. That is a fact. Just having the mental capability to finish high school and actually finishing are two different things.

Watching him operate over the decades, it is pretty obvious that the guy is not stupid. He has a good vocabulary and is able to work up and deliver effective speeches. If he does a lot of outside reading, as Mike Rinder suggests, the right kind of reading can provide someone like him a good education.

How he runs COS has more to do with his goals and his ethics level than his intelligence. Hitler had great street smarts and was above average in intelligence. He did not have a formal education but did a lot of reading. The problem lied in what he read. He chose to read antisemitic tracts, and studies concerning racial superiority and tales of glory about Germany and some of its earlier war leaders. What intrigued him the most was when a ruler was on the verge of absolute defeat and somehow pulled out a victory for Germany, I believe that Frederick the Great of Prussia did that and was his idol.

So, the fact that DM reads a lot may be indicative of high intelligence but one has to ask, "What is it that he reads?" That is what counts. I'm just guessing but I don't see him reading about Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Thomas Jefferson or Abraham Lincoln all people devoted to peace and the advancement of the common man. His interests seem to lie in accumulating an enormous amount of money and wielding dictatorial power over a growing religion and so if he does outside reading, topics relating directly to his interests and goals are probably the type of material which he reads.

Those who dislike him and hate him would be better off if he did not have much intelligence but that is not the case. He is apparently quite intelligent but it is how he puts his intelligence to use which causes the majority of people writing here to hate him.
Lakey
 
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oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
...My opinion is that DM definitely has "street smarts". This was illustrated when he took over COS relatively easy [STRIKE]after[/STRIKE] before LRH passed. All the rivals who had power were easily swept away by him. Not many people could have pulled that off but he did it easily so he had street smarts...

The likely reason Scientology survived Hubbard's death is that DM took over Scientology prior to Hubbard's death. As many on this board suspect, the rather timely death of Hubbard may also have been planned.

That Scientology has survived so long does not require a miracle. Neither does he require intelligence. DM is a sociopath with a large treasure chest in a country far too tolerant of cults.

He made one important realization (about the value of the LRH comm lines) and then executed a cunning plan which led to a clean transition. You could say that makes him intelligent, but I wouldn't. Here's why:

Sociopaths thrive when they control the flow of information. Before the internet, DM was able to do this because he was brutal and had money. Scientology is in decline because the internet makes the sociopathic behaviour transparent.

Intelligence is about adaptation.

If he was intelligent, he would realize we live in an internet age and he would change Scientology. He would have some sort of compensation plan worked out (like the Catholic church is doing now), he would lower the prices of services, stop disconnection, stop fair game, move to smaller more humble buildings and sell to a smaller number of people.

If he was smart, he would open charity shops (which actually generate profit). He could run real anti drug programs. Start acting like most religions. Train the VMs in engineering or nursing. It would change people's perception of Scientology.

That is adapting. That is intelligent. That could save Scientology. How has DM adapted?

He hasn't. Why? He is not intelligent. He is cunning in a very limited way. That's all.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
If one is a true Scientologist who believes Hubbard to a large (or total) extent, one's thinking is hugely affected by Hubbard's fixed ideas. Everything one perceives is filtered through these Hubbard-coloured glasses.

Paul
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
If one is a true Scientologist who believes Hubbard to a large (or total) extent, one's thinking is hugely affected by Hubbard's fixed ideas. Everything one perceives is filtered through these Hubbard-coloured glasses.

Paul

Yeah, and also AFAIK Ron Hubbard never did anything by committee, so DM doesn't think he should do anything by committee either,. Everything in Scn is on a top-down basis with him making all the decisions (even if he never accepts any of the responsibility when things go wrong).
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
The likely reason Scientology survived Hubbard's death is that DM took over Scientology prior to Hubbard's death. As many on this board suspect, the rather timely death of Hubbard may also have been planned.

That Scientology has survived so long does not require a miracle. Neither does he require intelligence. DM is a sociopath with a large treasure chest in a country far too tolerant of cults.

He made one important realization (about the value of the LRH comm lines) and then executed a cunning plan which led to a clean transition. You could say that makes him intelligent, but I wouldn't. Here's why:

He made a rather brilliant coup in which he quickly took over the leadership of COS. This required cunning and "balls". He did things outside the box which no one else had the cunning or "balls" to do. He quickly got the result he was looking for, complete control of COS. The bottom line is that he cleanly and quickly took over COS and literally got rid of all the competition such as MSH, Jane Kember, David Mayo, Bill Franks, Vicki Asnaran, the Broekers, etc., etc. To do this requires some form of inteliigence. A stupid person could not have pulled this off.

Sociopaths thrive when they control the flow of information. Before the internet, DM was able to do this because he was brutal and had money. Scientology is in decline because the internet makes the sociopathic behaviour transparent.

Nobody said that he was not a sociopath and I agree fully that the internet aids in making sociopathic behaviour transparent.

Intelligence is about adaptation.

If he was intelligent, he would realize we live in an internet age and he would change Scientology. He would have some sort of compensation plan worked out (like the Catholic church is doing now), he would lower the prices of services, stop disconnection, stop fair game, move to smaller more humble buildings and sell to a smaller number of people.

If he was smart, he would open charity shops (which actually generate profit). He could run real anti drug programs. Start acting like most religions. Train the VMs in engineering or nursing. It would change people's perception of Scientology.

You are talking about a combination of wisdom, benevolence and intelligence. A person with all three of those traits would adapt and work on doing those things such as you list above. DM possesses intelligence but is lacking in wisdom and totally lacking in benevolence.


That is adapting. That is intelligent. That could save Scientology. How has DM adapted?

He hasn't. Why? He is not intelligent. He is cunning in a very limited way. That's all.

I believe that had Hubbard followed his own policies and done Hat Write Ups for all his posts and applied a Power Change Formula for each of his posts, Scientology would have definitely survived Hubbard's death. At that time, Scn was much larger than it is now, maybe 125,000 to 150,000 active members as opposed to 30,000 to 35,000 today. Had Hubbard made good appointments for his various hats, it would have lived on. Hubbard started to do this in 1982, appointing Mayo to run tech and Bill Franks to run admin. Suddenly he stopped - probably incapacitated by illness and bad health. This left the door open for a street smart cunning person, such as DM to take control.

DM, a man with some intelligence but lacking in wisdom and totally devoid of benevolence has adapted. Just look at today's COS, compared to the COS run by Hubbard. First of all, DM has created a whole new set of stats, having to do more with material goods under his control, than the 27 Gross Divisional Statistics (GDS's) which were Hubbard's concern.

DM didn't like having to refund money to parishioners so he came up with a whole new system where parishioners make their contributions, not for training and processing, but for all the satellite groups sponsored by Scientology such as the IAS, WISE, ABLE, CCHR etc. When people donate, they simultaneously sign a waiver that they are making a donation which is non refundable. In this manner, DM cut refunds to a tiny fraction of what they once were.

LRH defined Ideal Orgs, in a specific manner, and when talking about Ideal Org buildings all he said was that they had to be centrally located, be clean and well stocked with necessary materials. Nothing at all was said about opulence and ultra luxurious fixtures. DM adapted that into making the buildings super plush and not really being concerned whether anyone comes in to use the buildings or not. The buildings appreciate in value as time passes without the need for management to do anything or spend any money. THAT IS A MAJOR ADAPTATION!!

DM knows about the internet. Scientologists in good standing are forbidden by DM from going on any anti SCN sites. That is an adaptation. The super glitzy state of the art ads shown on the Super Bowl and being broadcast are an adaptation.

One of his biggest adaptations occurs because of the dwindling number of Scientologists and that is repackaging, reformating and selling the same books, CDs , courses and auditing rundowns over and over, every 5 years or so to the same parishioners. In a similar manner, he forces all those on Solo NOTS, OT 7, to come in twice a year for a costly refresher which involves heavy security checking which the person is forced to purchase from Flag. This procedure which is a violation of a Hubbard HCOB, is a huge adaptation, also cleverly designed to increase income and delivery even though membership is dwindling. Just repackage old services in a new format and order that everyone must pull off of what they are doing and do these newly repackaged service even though they have done them before, usually more than once.

All of these adaptations require intelligence and they produce enormous amounts of money for DM and COS.

In closing, I respectively point out to you that what you are referring to as intelligence only is a combination of several things, including intelligence, benevolence,wisdom, kindness, the desire to help mankind and make this a better world, etc. DM seems to possess intelligence, cunning, resourcefulness, the ability to convincingly mislead people as to his true intentions, etc. Intelligence is a trait which can stand on its own, it doesn't necessarily have to be put to use to serve noble causes, it may also be put to use to mislead people and use and abuse them.
Lakey
 
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Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
The likely reason Scientology survived Hubbard's death is that DM took over Scientology prior to Hubbard's death. As many on this board suspect, the rather timely death of Hubbard may also have been planned.

That Scientology has survived so long does not require a miracle. Neither does he require intelligence. DM is a sociopath with a large treasure chest in a country far too tolerant of cults.

He made one important realization (about the value of the LRH comm lines) and then executed a cunning plan which led to a clean transition. You could say that makes him intelligent, but I wouldn't. Here's why:

Sociopaths thrive when they control the flow of information. Before the internet, DM was able to do this because he was brutal and had money. Scientology is in decline because the internet makes the sociopathic behaviour transparent.

Intelligence is about adaptation.

If he was intelligent, he would realize we live in an internet age and he would change Scientology. He would have some sort of compensation plan worked out (like the Catholic church is doing now), he would lower the prices of services, stop disconnection, stop fair game, move to smaller more humble buildings and sell to a smaller number of people.

If he was smart, he would open charity shops (which actually generate profit). He could run real anti drug programs. Start acting like most religions. Train the VMs in engineering or nursing. It would change people's perception of Scientology.

That is adapting. That is intelligent. That could save Scientology. How has DM adapted?

He hasn't. Why? He is not intelligent. He is cunning in a very limited way. That's all.

I's pretty much agree wholeheartedly with you that DM was making his moves well before the old man got helped to croak. It would seem DM was moving behind the scenes - maybe even somewhat openly - building a team of people to back himself in a quest to rule over scn. Who knows what who got promised BUT fact is he eliminated the apparent choices the old man had made to take over, eliminated them, and had himself put in charge.

It would seem that more than be " intelligent" or "cunning" or "street smarts" that DM gathered people around him who had useful ( to him ) skill sets & he utilized those people. Much like squeezing a lemon until there is no more juice & then toss that one aside & get another one full of juice - start all over again.
No matter what expertise was needed he got the person with it and squeezed it out until they weren't needed anymore - or he burned them out to the point they not contributed on the level needed.

That seems more the style DM has followed - he didn't invent it or perfect it as it is an age old technique. Bright ? Intelligent ? Cunning ? Street Smart ? Call it what one will, the fact is it IS ( so far ) working for him.

Were does it go ? Well, as long as scn is winding down does it really matter?

The 'net is the death of scn as any sort of "religion" with any meaningful power. yeah, some form of scn will exist in some small corner probably forever - like the Flat Earth Society.
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
David Miscavige made a TV appearance. In my opinion, in the whole history of Scientology spokesmen or public relation, David Miscavige's performance was outstanding. He was light years better than any other PR people Scientology could offer during all this time.

I think David Miscavige is very intelligent in certain areas but stupid in others. His intelligence is not balanced at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWUasKX3FZE

That's hilarious, because my ex showed me this interview performance as an explanation of why Miscavige has NEVER given another interview since, and the skillfulness of Ted Koppel as an interviewer in this case. We had a great laugh at Miscavige's expense and considered it a source of much mirth.
 
David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/iconic-ideal-spelling/#comment-47013
I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.

EDITED TO REMOVE ANY AMBIGUITY IN RESPONSE TO LORD XENU'S QUERY BELOW:

When I refer to the "enemy," I am referring to David Miscavige, and not Mike Rinder.

DM appears, from this distant vantage point, to have substantial cunning and an aptitude for the teachings of macchiavelociraptor...

fifty old sainthillers declared? nasty

and the subject has yet to outlive it's founder; the bulk of it's core is baby boomers who studied as ron's contemporaries. we of course won't be here but it only outlives it's founder if it lives when he is no longer in living memory and what i see now seems moribund. will it prove to be but a thing of it's time or go on?

it is yet already historic. it was very much a thing of it's time and very significant in the address of two greatest historic motivations. dmsmh was published only a few months after the erstwhile soviet union detonated it's first fission bomb opening the potential for nuclear war and was pointedly consecrated to the avoidance of such. us baby boomers grew up with "duck and cover" drills in school. these were a huge factor in the emotional impetus of the grassroots movement the subject was from the first. and few people today know anything of how truly horrid and lethal psychiatry was in 1950 and how vastly it has been reformed
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
...and the subject has yet to outlive it's founder; the bulk of it's core is baby boomers who studied as ron's contemporaries. we of course won't be here but it only outlives it's founder if it lives when he is no longer in living memory and what i see now seems moribund. will it prove to be but a thing of it's time or go on?...

That is the most interesting point on this thread. The baby boomers, who were around at the time of Hubbard are the lifeblood of Scientology. Will their death mark the end of Scientology? A very interesting question and an intelligent interpretation of the expression 'outlive it's founder.'

I believe that had Hubbard followed his own policies and done Hat Write Ups for all his posts, as per his own policy, and applied a Power Change Formula for each of his posts, Scientology would have definitely survived Hubbard's death.

I don't. Scientology isn't imperfect because it wasn't finished. It is imperfect on its own merits.

At that time, Scn was much larger than it is now, maybe 125,000 to 150,000 active members as opposed to 30,000 to 35,000 today. Had Hubbard made good appointments for his various hats, it would have lived on. Hubbard started to do this in 1982, appointing Mayo to run tech and Bill Franks to run admin. Suddenly he stopped - probably incapacitated by illness and bad health. This left the door open for a street smart cunning person, such as DM to take control.

DM, a man with some intelligence but lacking in wisdom and totally devoid of benevolence has adapted. Just look at today's COS, compared to the COS run by Hubbard. First of all, DM has created a whole new set of stats, having to do more with material goods under his control, than the 27 Gross Divisional Statistics (GDS's) which were Hubbard's concern.

DM didn't like having to refund money to parishioners so he came up with a whole new system where parishioners make their contributions, not for training and processing, but for all the satellite groups sponsored by Scientology such as the IAS, WISE, ABLE, CCHR etc. When people donate, they simultaneously sign a waiver that they are making a donation which is non refundable. In this manner, DM cut refunds to a tiny fraction of what they once were.

True. He has adapted. But none of these adaptations address the real problems killing Scientology. The refund stats aren't what's killing Scientology. Disconnection, constant regging, the internet, the press, the demoralizing startovers (GATII, redoing OTVII and OTVIII, redos of the basics etc. He hasn't adapted to the real problems in a realistic way.

LRH defined Ideal Orgs, in a specific manner, and when talking about Ideal Org buildings all he said was that they had to be centrally located, be clean and well stocked with necessary materials. Nothing at all was said about opulence and ultra luxurious fixtures. DM adapted that into making the buildings super plush and not really being concerned whether anyone comes in to use the buildings or not. The buildings appreciate in value as time passes without the need for management to do anything or spend any money. THAT IS A MAJOR ADAPTATION!!

Expensive fixtures require expensive maintenance. If the orgs are insolvent, they will depreciate. Some of the ideal orgs have depreciated due to a lack of maintenance. These do not address the major threats to the survival of Scientology.

I cannot see the ideal orgs saving Scientology.

DM knows about the internet. Scientologists in good standing are forbidden by DM from going on any anti SCN sites. That is an adaptation. The super glitzy state of the art ads shown on the Super Bowl and being broadcast are an adaptation.

DM has not handled the internet. DM knew about the internet in the 90s with the work of the old guard. Arnie Lerma blew the lid on OTIII back then. Even after 2008, Tommy Davis was still denying the Xenu story. It took almost 20 years for David Miscavige to learn that he could not play hide the ball with Scientology's secrets. Even after the advent of Anonymous, when it could have occurred to him, he waited until journalists had repeatedly talked about this publicly before he conceded defeat.

As to telling people not to look at entheta, that is hardly new in Scientology.

As to the Superbowl ads, the fact that he doesn't realize that those ads probably did more damage to the brand indicates he is stupid. Anyone who responded to those ads by googling them would be in for a big surprise. Did he think people were going to flood the orgs? Seriously.

One of his biggest adaptations occurs because of the dwindling number of Scientologists and that is repackaging, reformating and selling the same books, CDs , courses and auditing rundowns over and over, every 5 years or so to the same parishioners. In a similar manner, he forces all those on Solo NOTS, OT 7, to come in twice a year for a costly refresher which involves heavy security checking which the person is forced to purchase from Flag. This procedure which is a violation of a Hubbard HCOB, is a huge adaptation, also cleverly designed to increase income and delivery even though membership is dwingling. Just repackage old services in a new format and order that everyone must pull of of what they are doing and do these newly repackaged service even though they have done them before, usually more than once.

Doing the same thing you have done previously over and over again is not adaptation.

It is one of the symptoms of stupidity.

All of these adaptations require intelligence and they produce enormous amounts of money for DM and COS.

In closing, I respectively point out to you that what you are referring to as intelligence only is a combination of several things, including intelligence, benevolence,wisdom, kindness, the desire to help mankind and make this a better world, etc. DM seems to possess intelligence, cunning, resourcefulness, the ability to convincingly mislead people as to his true intentions, etc. Intelligence is a trait which can stand on its own, it doesn't necessarily have to be put to use to serve noble causes, it may also be put to use to mislead people and use and abuse them.
Lakey

I am probably conflating wisdom a little with intelligence, but not benevolence and kindness. I don't think the Vatican is being benevolent in adapting. I think they are acting out of self interest.
 

Isme

Patron with Honors
DM, a man with some intelligence but lacking in wisdom and totally devoid of benevolence has adapted. Just look at today's COS, compared to the COS run by Hubbard. First of all, DM has created a whole new set of stats, having to do more with material goods under his control, than the 27 Gross Divisional Statistics (GDS's) which were Hubbard's concern.

It seems to me that perhaps you and oneone are describing two different methods of adaptation.

You describe DM as adapting Scientology and Scientologists to serve him.

oneone was talking about adapting Scientology to survive within the world with it's current average ethnics and customs.

Both valid points and nothing to argue about really unless you like comparing excrement to meringue :biggrin:
 

Isme

Patron with Honors
David Miscavige is very intelligent and reads a LOT of books.

I believe the following observation by Mike Rinder is important.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/iconic-ideal-spelling/#comment-47013
I will add my own -- "external," if you will -- observation. The overwhelming majority of religions, "new religious movements," and cults do not survive the death of their founder. The interesting thing is not that Scientology is collapsing. The interesting thing is that Scientology has survived so long.

I offer the above on the theory that it is best not to under-estimate one's enemy.

EDITED TO REMOVE ANY AMBIGUITY IN RESPONSE TO LORD XENU'S QUERY BELOW:

When I refer to the "enemy," I am referring to David Miscavige, and not Mike Rinder.

I don't think he's very intelligent. People sometimes place far too much importance into book smarts not realizing that not being able to work with the information is a telling sign of a lack of true intelligence.

I maintain that I think he's a puppet who is allowed to exercise some appearance of control to keep him under control.

DM's aptitude is sorely lacking. He is unable to make any decisions except those that benefit himself directly. Aptitude would seem to be the ability to make the correct decision, overall, more often than making the wrong narrow-minded decision. The blinders of self-interest keep him from true intelligence.

That's exactly how his handlers like him.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's hilarious, because my ex showed me this interview performance as an explanation of why Miscavige has NEVER given another interview since, and the skillfulness of Ted Koppel as an interviewer in this case. We had a great laugh at Miscavige's expense and considered it a source of much mirth.


Ted Koppel sliced and diced Davey boy, but

perhaps Miscavige is "stuck in the win."
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Reading a lot of books means nothing, if one can't discriminate in the choice of reading matter. If his reading list contained twaddle like Science of Survival or All About Radiation them he's wasted his time and is still going to come across as a simpleton and a bullshitter.

I'll judge the intelligence of Miscavige by the skill he shows in his exit strategy: if he manages to escape early enough to enjoy a tax-free hundred million, freedom of movement AND the adulation of tens of thousands of Scientology victims, he's a very cunning man. If he ends up in hiding, living in fear and/or as a prisoner (penalty points for having his ass shot full of psych drugs) then he's a schmuck.
 

FoTi

Crusader
That is the most interesting point on this thread. The baby boomers, who were around at the time of Hubbard are the lifeblood of Scientology. Will their death mark the end of Scientology? A very interesting question and an intelligent interpretation of the expression 'outlive it's founder.'

I don't. Scientology isn't imperfect because it wasn't finished. It is imperfect on its own merits.

True. He has adapted. But none of these adaptations address the real problems killing Scientology. The refund stats aren't what's killing Scientology. Disconnection, constant regging, the internet, the press, the demoralizing startovers (GATII, redoing OTVII and OTVIII, redos of the basics etc. He hasn't adapted to the real problems in a realistic way.

Expensive fixtures require expensive maintenance. If the orgs are insolvent, they will depreciate. Some of the ideal orgs have depreciated due to a lack of maintenance. These do not address the major threats to the survival of Scientology.

I cannot see the ideal orgs saving Scientology.

DM has not handled the internet. DM knew about the internet in the 90s with the work of the old guard. Arnie Lerma blew the lid on OTIII back then. Even after 2008, Tommy Davis was still denying the Xenu story. It took almost 20 years for David Miscavige to learn that he could not play hide the ball with Scientology's secrets. Even after the advent of Anonymous, when it could have occurred to him, he waited until journalists had repeatedly talked about this publicly before he conceded defeat.

As to telling people not to look at entheta, that is hardly new in Scientology.

As to the Superbowl ads, the fact that he doesn't realize that those ads probably did more damage to the brand indicates he is stupid. Anyone who responded to those ads by googling them would be in for a big surprise. Did he think people were going to flood the orgs? Seriously.

Doing the same thing you have done previously over and over again is not adaptation.

It is one of the symptoms of stupidity.

I am probably conflating wisdom a little with intelligence, but not benevolence and kindness. I don't think the Vatican is being benevolent in adapting. I think they are acting out of self interest.

If DM's intentions are to get rid of Scientology and to take all the money, his adaptations and the things he has not handled are not stupid.....if these are his intentions.

DM has only adapted in ways to suck more money out of the members......getting donations for real estate for which the members get nothing in return......demanding members retrain and pay money again for services they have already done......redoing the books and reprinting them .... insisting that the members buy one or more sets and do a special course for those books.....making people get 6 month sec checks.....etc. I don't see any adaptations DM has implemented that were for the benefit of the members or that would help them get up the Bridge or that would help Scientology to expand. I don't think those things are his intention. I don't think that he as any intention at all of doing anything that would help Scientology to survive or expand. I think these adaptations are his way of covertly destroying Scientology from the inside, ..... while lying to the members and to the SO that it is expanding....so that he can maintain the protection of the SO while he is sucking all the money he can out of the members that are still in and still loyal. Eventually it will all implode and I think he knows this and has planned it this way so that he will be the only one left with all the money and he can then retire with all the money he ever needs to buy his own island or however else he has planned to live out the rest of his life in a way that no one can ever get their hands on him or get back at him for the things that he has done.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Ideal Orgs had nothing to do with saving Scientology.....they were just another way for DM to suck the money out of Scientologists bank accounts and into DM's control.

The only adaptations that DM has done have the intent to shrink Scientology and get rid of it, and line his coffers with gold.

The internet works in his favor....he can use it to point to and get people in Scientology to donate money to fight those dirty SP's who are on the internet....just more money in his coffers.

I think that DM wants the CoS to die out before he does.....along with any popularity of LRH and/or Scientology. I think DM is, on purpose, slowly murdering LRH's baby and his reputation, all the while setting himself up to be very, very rich and he doesn't seem to care who he steps on or wipes out to achieve his goals. What LRH built, DM will destroy and benefit from in the process.

I think that DM wants to be the final leader of Scientology and wants it to be gone/dead before he dies so that he knows that no one else will ever take it over and try to lead it back to success. Perhaps he saw a long time ago that there is no real Bridge to OT or Route to Total Freedom, and never was, and has set out to just get rid of it, while collecting as much money along the way, as he can.

The supposed SP's....those who have left, those who speak out are actually helping him with the demise of the CoS by discouraging any new people from joining and by giving DM an excuse to demand more donations to 'handle' those nasty SP's out there, so that he can suck any money out of Scientologists that they might have left, before the CoS implodes. He's going to get every dime he can out of them before the whole thing ends.

These are just my thoughts. May not really be the way it is for DM.
 

Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
DM has yet to utter a single idea that I can agree with. That's quite an accomplishment.

DM intelligent? Well read? Really? Class IV at 12? Who was his word clearer/sup/intern sup/CS?

Perhaps if he'd give extemporaneous talks handling comments from an uncowering audience, I'd agree. But he let Tommy do that.

DM knows a lot about Scientology and how Scientologists in the SO respond to him. I suspect he understands a lot about Scientology organizations.

Has he completed the OEC or FEBC? Internships on either? Has he audited ANYONE from raw meat to Grade IV completion? Review auditing?

Has he completed any wog college courses? Even one? A correspondence course? How about a course in ethics that addresses the giants of classical eithics.

Has he written anything that isn't parroting LRH?

He speaks like someone who has lived entirely under the cloak of the SO with virtually NO understanding of the culture outside of the SO.

Apparently no humor, no compassion, no family values, and canned speeches??.

Sure, DM is a genius and LRH was a nuclear scientist.

DM projects a very unreal image to a non-Scientologist.
 

Gib

Crusader
If DM's intentions are to get rid of Scientology and to take all the money, his adaptations and the things he has not handled are not stupid.....if these are his intentions.

DM has only adapted in ways to suck more money out of the members......getting donations for real estate for which the members get nothing in return......demanding members retrain and pay money again for services they have already done......redoing the books and reprinting them .... insisting that the members buy one or more sets and do a special course for those books.....making people get 6 month sec checks.....etc. I don't see any adaptations DM has implemented that were for the benefit of the members or that would help them get up the Bridge or that would help Scientology to expand. I don't think those things are his intention. I don't think that he as any intention at all of doing anything that would help Scientology to survive or expand. I think these adaptations are his way of covertly destroying Scientology from the inside, ..... while lying to the members and to the SO that it is expanding....so that he can maintain the protection of the SO while he is sucking all the money he can out of the members that are still in and still loyal. Eventually it will all implode and I think he knows this and has planned it this way so that he will be the only one left with all the money and he can then retire with all the money he ever needs to buy his own island or however else he has planned to live out the rest of his life in a way that no one can ever get their hands on him or get back at him for the things that he has done.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Ideal Orgs had nothing to do with saving Scientology.....they were just another way for DM to suck the money out of Scientologists bank accounts and into DM's control.

The only adaptations that DM has done have the intent to shrink Scientology and get rid of it, and line his coffers with gold.

The internet works in his favor....he can use it to point to and get people in Scientology to donate money to fight those dirty SP's who are on the internet....just more money in his coffers.

I think that DM wants the CoS to die out before he does.....along with any popularity of LRH and/or Scientology. I think DM is, on purpose, slowly murdering LRH's baby and his reputation, all the while setting himself up to be very, very rich and he doesn't seem to care who he steps on or wipes out to achieve his goals. What LRH built, DM will destroy and benefit from in the process.

I think that DM wants to be the final leader of Scientology and wants it to be gone/dead before he dies so that he knows that no one else will ever take it over and try to lead it back to success. Perhaps he saw a long time ago that there is no real Bridge to OT or Route to Total Freedom, and never was, and has set out to just get rid of it, while collecting as much money along the way, as he can.

The supposed SP's....those who have left, those who speak out are actually helping him with the demise of the CoS by discouraging any new people from joining and by giving DM an excuse to demand more donations to 'handle' those nasty SP's out there, so that he can suck any money out of Scientologists that they might have left, before the CoS implodes. He's going to get every dime he can out of them before the whole thing ends.

These are just my thoughts. May not really be the way it is for DM.

dm needs money to save himself from being deposed.

and the lawyers involved.

they are working double time. to save face

the COS and hubbard has nothing to do with that,

but the hubbard image does. as that keeps the money coming in.
 
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