Hubbard: A charlatan or just deluded?
- Thread starter strativarius
- Start date
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
In my opinion Hubbard was deluded and that the delusion was caused by himself. As most of us know, Hubbard gave himself hypnotic suggestions for years essentially hypnotizing himself with the "affirmations" or "admissions". He practiced these hypnotic techniques for a very long time beginning in the 1940's and thus believed everything he stated. I am listing several here but remember there were hundreds of hypnotic commands that Hubbard gave himself and you can find these affirmations if you just Google it.
"You will make fortunes writing."
"You will live to be 200 years old."
"You will always look young."
"Money will flood in upon you."
Some of these hypnotic commands succeeded and became factual where as others, such as "You will live to be 200 years old" and "You will always look young" did not. Hubbard hypnotized himself into delusion on a grand scale and I believe because of this he really did believe in what he was saying. He even wrote the infamous statement believed by all Scientologists that "What is true for you is true". That statement that so many Scientologists believe in is in fact utterly false.
Hubbard was also involved in Black Magic with his friends Jack Parsons and Aleister Crowley which has been documented. He believed he had a guardian angel protecting him and guiding him through life. One of the admissions or hypnotic commands Hubbard gave to himself was the following... "You can do automatic writing whenever you wish. You do not care what comes out on the paper when your Guardian dictates."
David Miscavige however is a complete fraud and charlatan. I don't believe for one minute that he buys the bullshit that he is promoting. He does not get auditing himself and hasn't for many years. David Miscavige is only in this for the money and power and while Hubbard did in fact want money and power, I believe he sincerely believed in all of his delusions due to the earlier hypnosis he performed on himself.
"You will make fortunes writing."
"You will live to be 200 years old."
"You will always look young."
"Money will flood in upon you."
Some of these hypnotic commands succeeded and became factual where as others, such as "You will live to be 200 years old" and "You will always look young" did not. Hubbard hypnotized himself into delusion on a grand scale and I believe because of this he really did believe in what he was saying. He even wrote the infamous statement believed by all Scientologists that "What is true for you is true". That statement that so many Scientologists believe in is in fact utterly false.
Hubbard was also involved in Black Magic with his friends Jack Parsons and Aleister Crowley which has been documented. He believed he had a guardian angel protecting him and guiding him through life. One of the admissions or hypnotic commands Hubbard gave to himself was the following... "You can do automatic writing whenever you wish. You do not care what comes out on the paper when your Guardian dictates."
David Miscavige however is a complete fraud and charlatan. I don't believe for one minute that he buys the bullshit that he is promoting. He does not get auditing himself and hasn't for many years. David Miscavige is only in this for the money and power and while Hubbard did in fact want money and power, I believe he sincerely believed in all of his delusions due to the earlier hypnosis he performed on himself.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Now you're talkin'!
Mike Holland
Patron
Hubbard claimed to be a scientist. He only completed two years of his CE degree and then failed. He attended one lecture on atomic physics (which I am sure he did not understand) and then called himself an atomic scientist. Then he bought a psychology Doctorate from Sequoia university, which handed out degrees without any courses or exams. Then finally he awarded himself a Doctorate degree in Scientology. So he was not a Doctor of anything. He was 100% charlatan.
But then he laid up a trap for himself. The way auditing and courses worked, if the preclear reported good results, then Scientology was working. If the results were poor, it was because the preclear was holding back or resisting. So everyone exaggerated the good results all the way up the chain, and from everything Hubbard at the top heard, Scientology techniques were producing wonders.
Not being a scientist, Hubbard knew nothing about designing experiments or running control groups to test theories. In tis respect he was far worse than Freud!
Mike
But then he laid up a trap for himself. The way auditing and courses worked, if the preclear reported good results, then Scientology was working. If the results were poor, it was because the preclear was holding back or resisting. So everyone exaggerated the good results all the way up the chain, and from everything Hubbard at the top heard, Scientology techniques were producing wonders.
Not being a scientist, Hubbard knew nothing about designing experiments or running control groups to test theories. In tis respect he was far worse than Freud!
Mike
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
he is an endlessly puzzling and enigmatic figure strat...
no doubt he was something of a charlatan. in fact if you understand the conventions of literary devices you can easily discover that he confesses to constructing CoS to be a shop for the shearing of sheep in "Mission Earth"
but...
he was also certainly a very serious researcher of all things...
Gib
Crusader
actually, now that I think of it, how many books did hubbard actually write?
I believe a lot of his so called words written, were actually transcribed from his lectures. So actual writing is different from speaking into a tape machine. And different from books compiled of snippets from past lectures?
Of course the COS just lumps it all together to make Hubbard sound impressive and give him credibility, a rhetorical means of persuasion known as ethos.
I suppose I could have recorded every single word I have spoken over a 20-30 year period, and then transcribed those spoken words into a book and then say I wrote my memiors and wrote 2 million words. Impressive it would sound.
Or, I wonder how many words a average person, a teacher, a politician, etc has spoken in a 20-30 year period? Millions of words as well?
:confused2:
lol....wut?
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Thank you very much for your lucid and articulate response to my original post. Perhaps I was asking the wrong question, because as you have pointed out, there is no reason why he could not be both a charlatan and deluded.
When I was a staff member at HSOL I saw how distracted and discomfited a certain auditor looked when he returned to the org from Flag having completed the Class VIII course. I imagine that he thought (as I did) that at Flag he'd witness Scientology on steroids, lots of able OT's all flying around making things go right, only to witness a manic-depressive drug-fuelled egomaniac in the form of LRH swearing and bawling and throwing people over the side of the fucking ship, proof of the sadistic control you maintain that he wielded over his followers.
Last edited:
GreyLensman
Silver Meritorious Patron
He was both, often at the same time. He was first a charlatan, then deluded into thinking that he was some kind of genius source-of-all-truth, then frustrated that it never worked on HIM, then wishing it did work on him, then bitter and milking it for all it was worth at his end of days.
Mike Holland
Patron
It amuses me that John McMaster, the first "clear", was gay. And Hubbard had insisted in all his writings that gays were 1.1.
Hubbard could not accept this, and was always on at John about his orientation. I met John in Johannesburg around 1962, and he was a very nice guy, certainly not 1.1.
Mike
Hubbard could not accept this, and was always on at John about his orientation. I met John in Johannesburg around 1962, and he was a very nice guy, certainly not 1.1.
Mike
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
I never met John McMaster but I know he was a very significant influence on a lot of people who knew him at St Hill in the 60's.
I wonder what would have happened if he'd prevailed in the Church instead of Miscavige and others. He believed in the Tech as a way to demonstrate more affinity towards one's fellow humans, not to dominate and control them.
My understanding is that being on the Apollo and repeatedly overboarded (and having to tolerate that and other abuses being perpetrated against other people there) pretty much did for his enthusiasm for the subject and certainly any time he ever had for LRH. He was never the same again after that.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
Last edited:
secretiveoldfag
Silver Meritorious Patron
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Yes, that seems feasible GL.He was both, often at the same time. He was first a charlatan, then deluded into thinking that he was some kind of genius source-of-all-truth, then frustrated that it never worked on HIM, then wishing it did work on him, then bitter and milking it for all it was worth at his end of days.
Originally Posted by Queenmab321
I agree that Hubbard was both a charlatan and deluded. I think the explanation for his prodigious volume of writing is twofold. On the one hand, he was clearly a savant when it came to writing. Every account I've read of anyone who saw him write characterizes his ability as phenomenal. He apparently possessed the ability to produce complete, coherent prose almost instantaneously. On the other hand, he also appears to have taken an enormous amount of satisfaction from writing. He believed implacably in his own genius.
Secondly, I get the impression that as much as Hubbard coveted wealth, he coveted power more. He derived extraordinary pleasure from the fervent devotion his followers gave him and from the sadistic control he wielded over them. He sought for and achieved a godlike status.
Furthermore, as time went on and he became increasingly isolated from the world, in the fantastic bubble he had created for himself, I think it very likely that he came to believe his own con. That is to say, just like the ancient thetans of his narrative, he became ensnared by his own game.
Commander Birdsong
Crusader
well...
he believed in the workability of the tech
but...
by his own statement he thought he would be able to read other people's hands playing poker
this is a purely adolescent idea of "OT" and he was often adolescent
and yet he was also brilliant. just a real strange guy
and i'm kind of a strange guy too...
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
When I started this thread I really didn't know the answer. The consensus is that he was both, and I'm happy to go along with that.
