HELP!! part 2

[Mike McClaughry]

I love the therapy where the whole family gets on a public message board on the global internet and starts picking scabs going back to when they were little kids.

Do not blame us for this thread, we did not start it. This thread was originally the brainchild of Nancy Many. I do not believe she had Tom's interests at heart when she put him up to it.

Some people here actually care about others and are trying to be helpful. I applaud them for that. And appreciate it.

Others have their own agenda against us, for Scientology or other reasons, and they are just USING Tom to forward their own black propaganda campaign against us. Those people do not care if Tom or Terril Park tell lies about us, it suits their purposes.

This forum is supposed to be about what is wrong with Scientology and what we can do about it. Using it for Tom's mental, emotional and family problems is a mis-use and counter-productive to Tom getting better, in the sense that he will not get better if he continues to lie, and if he continues his long-term abusive behavior he has displayed against every person in our family. On this thread there are those who are enablers for him to continue to lie and to continue his abusive behavior towards his mother. They are harmful to him getting better.

In regards his abusive behavior, we have not talked about some of the really nasty things he has done. You have only heard some of the lighter things.

Personally, I am in favor of throwing the entire Help I and Help II threads into the trashcan. And tell Tom to go see a therapist for his troubles.

This forum should get back on topic, what is wrong with Scientology and what can we do about it. If Tom has something to contribute to that effort, then he should post about that.

 

[NoName]

I think their crazy pants uber-conspiracy blog that connects black diabetics, the Rothchilds, J.P. Morgan, Slavemasters, King Leopold, the New World Order, etc..ad infinitium.. to realize there is NO talking any sense to either Mike or Virginia.

But it looks like they had the effect they desired, which was to drive away Tom from posting any further on ESMB. With all the earth shattering conspiracies to rule and enslave mankind they are uncovering on their blog its amazing they have all this time to worry about petty family drama on ESMB.

Hey Tom, you should familiarize yourself with the "block" feature on ESMB to block Mike and Virginia's posts from your feed. You'll never have to see them.

 

[Moderator 3]

Seems like the only way to end the "cycle of abuse" is to end it.
I'm up for that... take the abuse elsewhere.

General Note to ESMBers; The Admins and Moderators all have families. It's Holiday Season and we'd like to enjoy our well-earned break with our loved ones. Thanking you in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Oh, Happy New Year to you all. 2015 is officially The Year of the Ruthless Mod!

 

[AnonyMary]

Not sure which thread has the most drama/abuse on it, so I am posting here what I posted on the HELP thread

It took a tremendous amount of courage, humility and progress for Tom to write this following:

I can only encourage him to continue on in his therapy, to discuss with his doctor any need to go back on Zoloft if and when the anxiety of things gets to be too much for him. I can urge him to join support groups for those who suffer from the personality disorders he has accepted as his diagnosis' and is working. He is working on these on so that he has a better understanding to be able to control his life without being overwhelmed by emotions and reactions of his own and of those towards him that he's been struggling to deal with all these years.

To Tom: Keep up the good efforts and don't read or listen to statements that push your buttons and hurt your feelings. They only derail you from progress. As I mentioned previously, ignoring these is the best solution.

Here are some links to support groups that may be of help:

BPDWORLD -- Forum
http://www.mentalhealth-world.org.uk/forums/
BPDWORLD -- Support and Information from professionals as volunteers
http://www.bpdworld.org/

Yahoo GroupSupport Group for those Dx'ed with BPD
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/borderline/info
________________________________

Now, onto attempting to educate the know-it-all-family members who keep doing and saying the same things over and over again, to and toward Tom, and expecting real results that fix their problem with him.

When are you going to realize that you are clueless on what his mental health problems are for him, how they effect you and your responses effect him, and what you are doing to exacerbate them?

When you have the solution to a problem, it is no longer a problem, right? The problem ceases to exist when solved. So all attempts thus far to solve this problem with Tom have failed. Can you all just agree that so far, it's been a big fail on understanding enough to be able to continue to love and have some control and patience with the problems?

Nothing in Scientology can provide understanding of the isues and diagnosis' Tom has. Nothing in the tech can fix them. No medicine can fix it either ( save for helping reduce his anxiety so that he can put into play the solutions he is learning and will continue to learn as he deals with them.)

Virginia and Mike really need to get a grip, grow up and get educated on their son's pervasive mental health problems if there is to be any hope for this family and hope for Tom's well being as a member of the family. LisaM would be wise to educate her self more, as I noticed she posted a comment that reflected more knowledge on therapy than her mother did in her post.

Below are some links to information and support for families with a loved one diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder with underlying Narcissism Disorder.

It is not easy to have a loved one with these problems, the sometimes resultant anxiety and anger but everyday there are family members getting better at working on understanding and learning to observe symptoms and triggers, and putting into play various skills learned when these things happen and cause upset in the family.

It required everyone to be on the same page, willing to learn, willing to not let emotions and reactions take control of the family. If you care, if you really want him to get better, if you really want things to change for the better as a family, if you really want to try and repair the situation and prevent serious consequences, get yourselves educated. Remove all assumptions and supposed facts and start fresh because personality disorders, and the families that are effected by them, can only be helped by behavior modification on everyone's part.

Get support from others who are going through a similar situation in their family and eventually get family counseling by a therapist trained in these specific disorders.

If you don't do these things than nothing will get better and things will only get worse for everyone but especially so for Tom. Here are the family links:

Borderline Personality Disorder Symptoms
By Psych Central Staff
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/borderline-personality-disorder-symptoms/

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms
By Psych Central Staff
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

"Lexapro is used to treat anxiety in adults and major depressive disorder in adults and adolescents who are at least 12 years old."
http://www.rxlist.com/lexapro-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Does Someone You Love Have Borderline or Narcissistic Disorder?
http://www.bpdcentral.com/blog/?Does-Someone-You-Love-Have-Borderline-or-Narcissistic-Disorder-1

Why BPD relationships are so complicated

http://www.bpdcentral.com/borderline-disorder/bpd-relationships/

Stop Walking on Eggshells
When someone in your life has borderline or narcissistic personality disorder
by Randi Kreger

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...tle-kid-inside-the-adult-borderlinenarcissist

BPDFamily.com / Facing the Facts

http://www.bpdfamily.com/


http://outofthefog.net/

Out of the FOG contains:
Introductions to Personality Disorders

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
Introduction
http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/BPD.html

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
Introduction
http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

 

[Moderator 3]

Not sure which thread has the most drama/abuse on it, so I am posting here what I posted on the HELP thread

Right, Mary, I've acted with the whole of it in mind rather than just this particular thread.

 

[BunnySkull]

Crazy articles at our blog where only clip art is cited with sources, like this for example:

Recap of Chapter 16-2 :

the rise of Rockefeller, Morgan and Schiff
the slavemaster pyramid – Britain on top
Lionel Nathan Rothschild as the Igor of the Slavemasters
The New World Order and the Round Table
Oxford University’s role in forwarding Slavemaster fictional history and science – Declamatio
cousins Galton and Darwin invent an evolution of man that doesn’t exist
Diamonds and Secret Societies
Covert manipulation of markets and public ideas – the skulking begins

"conspiracy theories" here

or how about this one -
[URL="https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/scientology-roots-chapter-sixteen-3-brothers-of-light-create-debt-and-income-tax/]https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/scientology-roots-chapter-sixteen-3-brothers-of-light-create-debt-and-income-tax/[/URL]

FIFY

Also, this is just the teeny tiny tip of the bat shit crazy iceberg I just can't be bothered to dig through literally hundreds of pages (remember that's just chapter 16-2) of the picture book conspiracy blog.

The only citation/documentations in the blog are to the endless images and clip art he seems compelled to post in-between every other paragraph.

 

[JustSheila]

Oh, Happy New Year to you all. 2015 is officially The Year of the Ruthless Mod!

lol! And congrats on your new STAR just in time at the end of 2014, Mod3!

 

[Lone Star]

Seems like the only way to end the "cycle of abuse" is to end it.
I'm up for that... take the abuse elsewhere.

General Note to ESMBers; The Admins and Moderators all have families. It's Holiday Season and we'd like to enjoy our well-earned break with our loved ones. Thanking you in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Oh, Happy New Year to you all. 2015 is officially The Year of the Ruthless Mod!

Soon robots will replace all internet Mods and Admins. They can monitor boards 24/7 and ban folks swiftly and without feeling. Sorta like Spock...."tis not logical to allow this poster to continue...."

In fact, as Artificial Intelligence advances these robots will be able to ban posters prior to an offensive post. Ban them for a pre-offense. Yep. Similar to that movie Minority Report, with the star who's name I won't mention. Shhhhhh.......

 

[Free Being Me]

Soon robots will replace all internet Mods and Admins. They can monitor boards 24/7 and ban folks swiftly and without feeling. Sorta like Spock...."tis not logical to allow this poster to continue...."

In fact, as Artificial Intelligence advances these robots will be able to ban posters prior to an offensive post. Ban them for a pre-offense. Yep. Similar to that movie Minority Report, with the star who's name I won't mention. Shhhhhh.......

Well I guess that means I'm ed

 

[Udarnik]

FIFY

Also, this is just the teeny tiny tip of the bat shit crazy iceberg I just can't be bothered to dig through literally hundreds of pages (remember that's just chapter 2-16) of the picture book conspiracy blog.

The only citation/documentations in the blog are to the endless images and clip art he seems compelled to post in-between every other paragraph.

Holy batshit, fatman.

Not to mention that they seem to have learned webpage layout design by looking at 3rd grade scrapbooks.

 

[Smurf]

Soon robots will replace all internet Mods and Admins. They can monitor boards 24/7 and ban folks swiftly and without feeling. Sorta like Spock...."tis not logical to allow this poster to continue...."

What happens if we don't speak or write Japanese?

 

[AgentIce]

Tom... you really need to find a good therapist to help you recognize your trigger points & how to move on with life. You, your mother & your stepfather (Mike) have been clawing at each other's jugulars for at least 10+ years now with no resolution in sight.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.clearing.technology/tfCuYDx6718

You have posted some very long & indepth narratives of how things have occurred between you & your mother, and I know Virginia has her own perceptions & narratives on what happened which greatly differ from yours. You will only accept an apology from her on your terms & perception of what is a sincere apology, and your mother has her own perceptions.

I was estranged from my mother for many years & in that time, with the help of counseling, I learned some important lessons which I would strongly encourage you to think about.

1. You are so much stronger than you think!
2. Forgive yourself. You did the best you could.
3. Not all relationships last..some die & some choose to leave for their own reasons.
4. Do not allow your mother, stepfather or any single person to have so much power over your life, that without them you feel your life has no value.
5. You are not responsible for your parents. Let them have their life and allow them live it their own way, even if that means you are not included.
6. Find friends who lift you up and love you for who you are. Fill the void with healthy relationships that enhance your life not ones that hurt you.


Most importantly.. LOVE YOURSELF!

Thank you, this is a very beautiful post. Regarding #4, I remember the feeling once I realized that I was not crazy, I responded how anyone would being raised by an abusive BPD/NPD parent. I started to gain control of my emotions and I stopped being so impulsive. This was a slow process and took many years. I remember that night where I called and talked to my step-dad after seeing they posted about me on their blog... the first hour or so was me talking to them. The two prank calls my friends made where maybe 30 minutes or something. Then I spoke to Mike one last time and he tried to invalidate me or tell me what I was thinking and I stood up for myself shouting "NO! YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL ME WHAT I THINK OR FEEL EVER AGAIN!". It took developing my identity so I had a place to be strong from and learning to love myself to reach the point where I could stand up for myself like that.

Regarding #6, I can't say how grateful and validating it is to have friends who are truly supportive. Just this last weekend a friend told me something that was incredibly validating to hear from someone else. She said "Tom I love talking to you, you're so well spoken and even though I don't know everything about your life, I know some. I know you came from a very dark place and you know all the steps you took to get away from there. When you talk you say things in a way that just blows my mind and I learn so much from you. Thank you." My deepest desire is to turn the negative into a positive, to make all that pain not a waste, I can't say how validating it is to see at least I am headed in the right direction.

 

[AgentIce]

Emphasis mine.

Unfortunately that (line above emphasised) is one of the pertinent issues that many scientologists have to come to terms with when they get out of the cult ... it's one of the main parts of the conditioning, indoctrination and culture and many continue to do it after leaving the cult, till one day they realise it's not normal ... and stop.

It's exhausting to live with I know, it's like they believe they're in perpetual "therapy" and whoever is there is appointed as their personal "therapist" and has to sit there and cop it (with all the drama and emotions thrown in) till they have a "cognition or get thoroughly acknowledged" to their satisfaction and feel OK again ... meanwhile you are left feeling like you've been hit by a bus.



I feel for you if you were the child of a "full on" scientologist ... and somewhere deep inside I also feel for your Ma (but for different reasons).

I truly hope you will be able to sort things out in your own world now as an adult and can one day create a family of your own that feels more like the one you possibly wanted as a child.

​

Thank you, you captured something that I hadn't put to words but I completely agree with you. For me, it was just this constant sense that there is something wrong with you and you need to do something about it NOW NOW NOW. No matter how good you are doing, or how far you've come, you are constantly burdened by the expectation that you will become a god and so you can never rest or relax, let alone accept any perceived flaws or weaknesses in yourself. One of the first times I relaxed was when I noticed that unquestioned conviction inside of me that something was wrong. At first I couldn't even entertain the idea of things being right. It was only through pretending and trying to imagine what it would feel like if everything was perfect, right, ok, that I finally let go and relaxed.

 

[AgentIce]

Tom says he had to give in and shut up in times when he was right. That is a lie. He was not right. When he tortured his sisters and our pets, he was verbally chastised for that behavior. He was not in the right.

Tom had three big arguments with his mom when he was growing up. The first was about an IQ test, the second was about the pronunciation of the word sword. The third was about the definition of a grammar word. He was not right, as he falsely claims.

See this is the kind of thing that used to make me so angry... I mean it doesn't anymore I just shake my head and wonder what the hell reality Mike lives in. Then I remember he is totally demasculated by my mom, PTS, whatever you want to call it. The fact is she runs the show and Mike is beta to her. He has lost his strength as a man and is totally unable to stand up to her. In other areas he is a very strong man, but in that relationship he is not.

Is he really trying to say we've had 3 arguments in our entire lives, and they were all about me "torturing his sisters and our pets"? I love the word torture too, even though I physically never hurt my sisters. Trying to make me look like a bad evil, person, black and white thinking etc. My sisters would bait me and incite me to angry and lash out, and then I'd get in trouble. My mom caught my sister in the act and things became easier for me. If I was so horrible to my sisters why do I still have relationships with them (except Lisa who is also under my mom's thumb)? It would be interesting to see what my step-sisters think about Mom. (Hint: they agree with me. In fact, my step-sister said she wished she could be strong like me as I was the only one to stand up to my mom) Like any relationship quarrels, it takes two, and my sisters weren't sweet little angels either.

Why bring up arguments from childhood even I don't remember anyways? How about talk about the last 4 years before I left? What about the argument where she caused me to have a psychotic break? Later Brendan told me he could have spoken up but he was too scared. I couldn't believe he'd just sit there and not say anything and that was part of it. After 5 hours of grilling and emotional manipulation she convinced me I was wrong on something I thought I was right about and my mind literally fell apart as I crashed to the floor in agony, a primal grief pouring out of me. I was 22 then. What about the time she chased me as I tried to leave a fight and ripped my shirt and clawed my back? What about the time I ran to my room and she of course got you to threaten me. I was blocking the door and realized resisting was dumb when mom pushed her way in and "overpowered" me. She was so smug in her theta abilities and she was amazed at how strong she was. Letting her know I didn't even try would have just furthered the fight. What about the times I tried to tell her in a nice way how she is looking like a crazy bitch on the forums and I'd probably respond exactly how they were? How about the fight over the word "adjective" and I said it's a "word that modifies a noun" which turned into a 3 hour fight. Even when I showed her in my grammar book the definition and that I was right it didn't matter. She had to get the huge Oxford dictionary out (which still showed I'm right) but in the end that didn't matter, only me being an asshole and attacking her or something. Like we fought so much and had so many ridiculous battles I could go on and on. She has never once apologized for any of them. Towards the end she just got more and more delusional as to what actually happened. The day I left was when she had so altered events to suit her, mixing up different arguments etc, that I realized either she is insane or I am, but I'd rather die than stay there. You are right though, it all goes back to that argument about Sword (which I don't even remember).

I honestly don't care to point out what is wrong in the rest of what Mike said. It's just ridiculous and absurd.

 

[Smurf]

General Note to ESMBers; The Admins and Moderators all have families. It's Holiday Season and we'd like to enjoy our well-earned break with our loved ones. Thanking you in anticipation of your kind consideration.

Regardless, your weekly stats are due on Thursday.....oh, wait.

 

[AgentIce]

Nice to see things are getting better for you Tom.

Thank you Terril. You might not know it but you were one of the first people to make me feel validated that I wasn't crazy and had truly just been under the influence of an abuser. I think you said something like "I consider myself a strong person and someone convinced me I was wrong about something I wasn't and it really shook me, and it sounds like you've had that happen over and over". In a weird way, being constantly attacked like that only served to cement a place inside of me that no one could shake. It's probably why I was such a target, because I would not let her control me.

 

[Smurf]

Thank you, this is a very beautiful post. Regarding #4, I remember the feeling once I realized that I was not crazy, I responded how anyone would being raised by an abusive BPD/NPD parent. I started to gain control of my emotions and I stopped being so impulsive. This was a slow process and took many years. I remember that night where I called and talked to my step-dad after seeing they posted about me on their blog... the first hour or so was me talking to them. The two prank calls my friends made where maybe 30 minutes or something. Then I spoke to Mike one last time and he tried to invalidate me or tell me what I was thinking and I stood up for myself shouting "NO! YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL ME WHAT I THINK OR FEEL EVER AGAIN!". It took developing my identity so I had a place to be strong from and learning to love myself to reach the point where I could stand up for myself like that..

It's good to see you returning, Tom. I'm thankful that Virginia, Mike & LisaM posted here.. it showed us their true colors & they weren't at all pretty. It looks like you & your sister in Santa Monica have had to deal with, regretfully, the possessiveness & nastiness of your mother. And, thankfully, the mod here banned them before they royally shit up the threads with their nonsense.

My own mother was diagnosed with a narcissistic bipolar disorder & blamed her family & friends for all her problems. It sounds like Virginia & Mike have the same issues, and because it is not in your power to change them, it is best that you ignore them completely & move on with your life. You do not need them to be happy or successful.

 

[AgentIce]

I think their crazy pants uber-conspiracy blog that connects black diabetics, the Rothchilds, J.P. Morgan, Slavemasters, King Leopold, the New World Order, etc..ad infinitium.. to realize there is NO talking any sense to either Mike or Virginia.

But it looks like they had the effect they desired, which was to drive away Tom from posting any further on ESMB. With all the earth shattering conspiracies to rule and enslave mankind they are uncovering on their blog its amazing they have all this time to worry about petty family drama on ESMB.

They won't scare me away from writing like they did years ago, I'm a stronger person now. I do however question whether I should block them. This was supposed to be a place for me to vent, but also a place to talk about the positive aspects of my recovery too. If I do talk about my mom I'm usually talking about how she made me feel. I'm trying to talk about it coming from my own perspective and afaik I have never said she's an evil or mean person or tried to completely demonize her. It's just that any hint that she is flawed is taken as an attack by her. I'm not sure how to handle that. It's not that I want to antagonize her but unfortunately anything I do will be taken personally.

 

[AgentIce]

It's good to see you returning, Tom. I'm thankful that Virginia, Mike & LisaM posted here.. it showed us their true colors & they weren't at all pretty. It looks like you & your sister in Santa Monica have had to deal with, regretfully, the possessiveness & nastiness of your mother. And, thankfully, the mod here banned them before they royally shit up the threads with their nonsense.

My own mother was diagnosed with a narcissistic bipolar disorder & blamed her family & friends for all her problems. It sounds like Virginia & Mike have the same issues, and because it is not in your power to change them, it is best that you ignore them completely & move on with your life. You do not need them to be happy or successful.

Thank you so much I did not realize they were banned, that makes things much easier for me actually. In spite of what she thinks this was never meant to be all about her. It's about me and my own healing.

 

[AgentIce]

Not sure which thread has the most drama/abuse on it, so I am posting here what I posted on the HELP thread

These links were very useful, I was familiar with some already but others were new. I finished reading them and I'm going to write later, thanks for the post!