A brief breakdown of the 8 OT levels?

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> Don't blame poor old-just-had-a-birthday-to-make-him-older-Dart for my brilliance . . . it was me, RogerB. (So much for the for the powers of duplication and understanding! ) <snip>

WUT!? - Why, you're right.. Wasn't Dart.. Was you!

I flounder corrected!

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Your "Program"!

WUT!? - Why, you're right.. Wasn't Dart.. Was you!

I flounder corrected!

Fall out and loll around fer a while....then, when the mood strikes ya - re-read RogerB's two posts that I quoted a page or two back...and if yer not sure what some of the words mean or sumphin, just ask someone. or better yet, just figure out what they mean from the general context.

Yawn once in a while - it's not all that serious.

EP

 

[lionheart]

For me being effect is still difficult. I have to shake off my control issues. There's been so much BAD control.

I am proud of the fact that I arrived at the conclusion that being a human being is RICH. In this universe others are jealous. I bet we'd be surprised to find out who is battling for the right to live through us vicariously. We're the cats ass. And we have the ringside seats.

One of the problems with Scn is it can tend to put being cause as senior to being effect. This sticks people on one side of the apparent polarity

As "processing" questions are being quoted here are some Sedona Method style ones that I found useful for this being effect thing.

Could I allow myself to be cause?
Could I allow myself to be effect?

Alternating those tends to discharge one against the other, producing a release.

Over the control thing that you mentioned, a good question is:

Could I allow myself to let go of wanting control?

Despite what Ron told us about "cause" the truth is that no matter how hard we try to "be cause" we are always effect. One could define "life" as "an effect received". It is glorious!

 

[Veda]

Here's an exercise that includes spanning attention, visualization (mock ups), specialized mock ups, where a person attempts to place a mock up of the same size, etc., as a physical object, in the same space as the physical object, and projection of consciousness through the solar system.

It even warns about avoiding what amounts to "overrun."

(Note: "Nuit" - as used in the below link - roughly equates to "Infinity," The subject of "other universes," other "planes," etc., is not addressed in this exercise.)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=4696&postcount=6

http://www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no10/eqi10004.html (back up link)

Permeating, as in filling/feeling ("Havingness") the heliosphere (solar aura) is, itself, an interesting exercise.

Handy navigational aid: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/voyager-interstellar-terms.html

Some more information on the heliosphere: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=470555&postcount=13

 

[Vinaire]

I read this phenomenon of the universe disappearing before discovering Scientology, in one of the accounts of Swami Vivekananda. This happened to him when he met his guru Ramakrishna Paramhamsa for the second time and Ramakrishna just touched him lightly. We are talking here circa 1881. Vivekananda was a teenager then.

Let me see if I can find that account and post it here.

.

 

[RolandRB]

I'm not going to write 3 or 4 paras for each, but here goes, as I understand it:

New OT1: Used to be an objective-type process, done in a few hours. Since about 1984 it has been a de-PTSing level, taking about 10-15 hours of solo auditing problems processes on people and things that the person feels have been antagonistic to him/her. It is usually (or was when I was involved with it 20 years ago) pretty effective and well-received.

OT2: Addresses a large number of dichotomies on a person's case, pairs like create/destroy. The full number is thousands, but it is not necessary to do them all to be complete on the level. Hubbard says these dichotomies were implanted in the person 75 million years ago. Tends to take dozens of hours of solo auditing. Some benefits attainable from it.

OT3: The 75 million year ago incident, the biggie. Xenu. Body thetans. Google it. It's all over the place. Despite the idiocy of Hubbard's theory, there would seem to be something genuine underlying the procedure which is addressed. Tends to be longer than OT2, maybe a hundred hours, sometimes less and sometimes more.

New OT4: OT Drug RD. Audited by another, usually far less than an intensive (12.5 hours). Addresses "body thetans" left over from OT3, related to drug incidents, that the guy didn't spot on OT3.

New OT5: Audited NOTs. More supposed BTs, that hadn't been spotted earlier. Takes about 50 hours, more or less. Many people get gains from this, so again, it seems something valid is being addressed, even if the theory is not all correct.

New OT6: Mostly the same as the Solo Auditor Course Part 1 - identical except it doesn't say Solo Part 1 on the checksheet - with a little bit of theory about Solo NOTs and getting going on solo auditing on Solo NOTs at Flag.

New OT7: Solo NOTs, auditing at home. For years. And years. And years. Again, some of it seems valuable, but that seems to be the early part of the auditing and then it drags on, seemingly an overrun. It's a fabulous cash cow for the CofS, with every 6 months the person needs to go to Flag for a "6 month check" where they get a very out-tech sec-check, which tends to take, what a couple of intensives? The EP is something like can't find any more BTs (which is also the EP of OT3!!!), but whereas on OT3 it is more or less by attest on this one it is after another 3-4 intensives of sec-check and other checks to make sure there REALLY is no way they can screw any more money out of you on the level.

New OT8: The solo auditor addresses his past auditing and is evaluated for and told that next to none of the past identities he has encountered in his auditing were really him, thereby invalidating pretty much all the auditing he ever had prior to the OT levels, and those lower levels were where he got most of his gains anyway! The EP is knowing who he wasn't, so he can now find out who he is. Except they haven't released that level yet, so sorry, your stable datum got shaken without you being allowed to put a new one in its place.

And it only took $350,000 and twenty years and a hell of a lot of heartache.

There, happy?

Paul

My needle is floating........

......because I escaped having to do all that crap.

 

[RogerB]

LH, Yes, That's Rather Good

One of the problems with Scn is it can tend to put being cause as senior to being effect. This sticks people on one side of the apparent polarity

Yes, Hubbard did have and convey that hang-up. Problem appears appears to be, from what I've heard from those folks who knew him personally and from what we are seeing on this board, is that he was a mad dominator . . . . he had to be cause, no matter what, even if it meant having to lie.

"Cause" and "Receive/duplication" are complements in my observation. You don't have one without the other

When one mocks up games and relationships, one is actually creating the scenario of what and how one wants to cause and what/how to receive; and along with that, what you want the other Beings in the relationship to receive and what you want them to cause to you.

As "processing" questions are being quoted here are some Sedona Method style ones that I found useful for this being effect thing.

Could I allow myself to be cause?
Could I allow myself to be effect?

Alternating those tends to discharge one against the other, producing a release.

Over the control thing that you mentioned, a good question is:

Could I allow myself to let go of wanting control?

Nice

Despite what Ron told us about "cause" the truth is that no matter how hard we try to "be cause" we are always effect. One could define "life" as "an effect received". It is glorious!

Hmmm, I'll chew on that

My observation is that both these aspects of the game, and one could view them as being simply vectors of spiritual life-force, have different expressions depending upon where on the scales of attitudes, emotion, reality etc., they are emanated, expressed or practiced from.

Ideally, one should have full volition and be able to knowingly determine one's vector flows. The difficulty for we in a human condition is that we often do not have that level of volition and power of choice; so there is compulsion and the being stuck in either or both of these flows . . . and even both at the same time on occasion.

Rog

Getting used to this system . . . it seems to want me to type something out of "the quote box"

 

[RolandRB]

I've also heard that on OT8, one comes to realise, or is educated, or it's insinuated (i'm not sure which it is) that EVERY whole track incident you've ever run was someone else's because this is YOUR first time around. Anyone currently running a body has NOT been here before.

Can anyone confirm this?

If this is true, it makes sense (in a scientological way) that you've found out who you are not. But why then do all the preceeding levels? If you are auditing the track of BTs or other entities all along, why bother?

Also, if the EP of OT8 is that you've found out who you are not, and are interested in finding out who you are - well what the hell does that mean anyway? Surely anything that you "are" apart from "pure theta" would just be more valences and goals and games anyway.

But we're either a lead body-thetan or a Loyal Officer, aren't we?

 

[RolandRB]

One definition of a thetan is "awareness of awareness unit". A thetan with no baggage is already out of the trap - no?

If a thetan can go through an entire Bridge to OT8 and not learn about "the trap" then the thetan is not the almightly powerful all knowing being Hubbard says he is.

Sorry, but this has floored me.

I thought the Bridge was bogus before, but this is just unbelievable.

I'm not saying other beings or entities don't exist and can cause trouble. This is another point altogether.

But this revelation, if I'm understanding it correctly, just makes the entire Bridge a bigger farce than I already thought it was.

In a nutshell, you finish OT8 and realise that NONE of what you ran past this lifetime is you! None of NED, FPRD, the grades (where you have gone track), sec checks etc. is your own recall!

If you have just arrived this lifetime, WHY BOTHER with all that other stuff?

If you have just arrived this life time you most likely don't even HAVE a reactive mind!

And what about between lives implants? That makes that irrelevant because you can't have had that implant.

What about GPMs? If they weren't your goals in the first place, why run them?

The way I see it. Joe Blow off the street is in EXACTLY the same case shape as an OT8. The OT8 might have had an "education" and have done some drilling etc and might be more competant, but CASEWISE, there is no difference.

If this invalidates anyone here, I sincerely apologise. It's just I'm trying to come to terms with this. If I'm wrong please correct me.

The difference between Joe Blow and an OT8 is that Joe Blow blinks and still has money in his pocket.

 

[Zephyr]

No Paul, You seem to have misduplicated it.

What this tells us (if it is true) is that the person running the body is definitely a spiritual Being and is one newly arrived here. What he thought was his past experience in the physical universe (courtesy of auditing) is for the most part experience of the composite entity that makes up the body. There is much more to know about this if you truly wish to understand it.

So, you get told that "your whole track" is really not yours and you just spent 350k to get "set up" so that that idea is acceptible. I can see then the next "steps" and OT Levels would be for YOU to do YOUR bridge...OH, I forgot this is your first life...so I guess don't have a whole track.

I'm sorry but I find this (sadly) hilarious, laughing at myself for having bought into it when I was an "innie" and thanking the Great Spirit I'm out and away from it all now.

Rob

 

[Tiger Lily]

You guys have GOT to be kidding.

LRH must have been rolling in the dough, laughing with every OT level completion.

OMG, I'm feeling a little ill here. . .

-TL

 

[RogerB]

Hey, I think You've Found Hubbard's Real Name!

WUT!? - Why, you're right.. Wasn't Dart.. Was you!

I flounder corrected!

I think you found Hubbard's real name here . . . . he was not the "Founder," but The Flounder Founder

R

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Well, maybe all 'strange' things aren't bad.. But I had a bellyful of this KIND of strange tales when I was being commercially mindboggeled by scientologists back in the mid 70's and 80's..

Ok, so the OT levels was not invented yet in 1963... But I still maintain that Scn, in it's intiriety, is validated by such a story.

You get the idea that all the hype about being spiritually capable to be cause over the universe and stuff is maybe true..

Well? You could argue that The Sinister Cult of Scientology ain't the only vendor.. But this kind of story IS CofS's primary sales pitch..

I do understand that what we are into here is the idea of the good old days, before the Terror Midget took over CofS. Back when 'real' OT's were made..

Problem is.. I don't believe it!

Allright.. I get told that a guy makes the universe disappear.. Not his perceptions of the universe! - There's another guy present, and he too is villy nilly plonked smack dab i the middle of an absolute void. The chair they sit on goes 'poof', together with the room, the house, the world and the intire universe. The other guy is understandably scared..

RogerB is somewhat cool.. For some reason he's certain that he can make the universe reappear.

Now, since two guys 'experinced' this I take it that this was no 'mental' happening. It was not just some disturbance af perceptions.. I must wonder why I didn't notice when it happened!? - I was present in this universe and on this planet!

Uhm.. I can 'rationalize' that it only happened for RogerB and Max.. (I feel like a damned scilon when rationalizing that way!)

The problem for me.. Is that I don't LIKE telling RogerB that I don't believe him! - Calling him a liar as it were..

I don't have the same problem with Scientology PR hype.. That is just damned lies.. Has been exposed to be beyond any reasonable doubt, and the source of 'em, Hubbard, is an asshole... Freight Trains on Venus.. Radioactive magellanic clouds dumped on planets.. But fact is, that back then, when my scientology 'freinds' told me stories like this. I did (almost) believe.. That I could become a God on earth..

This kind of stories!

So.. If I were to believe that a guy made the universe disappear.. I would believe in the obscene dog too! - And that Hubbard took a jaunt out to the Oort Cloud... And the Hoipolloy... And living forever..

Whatever..

I did make up some stories:
Thread / Dirty Despicable Lying Success Stories!

 

[uniquemand]

I don't tell people they are lying about this stuff. I don't think they are. I do think that they are delusional, though, or minimally misinterpreting what actually happened.

I would agree that the universe (the one we all share, of which our private one is a subset).

 

[RogerB]

Now, since two guys 'experinced' this I take it that this was no 'mental' happening. It was not just some disturbance af perceptions.. I must wonder why I didn't notice when it happened!? - I was present in this universe and on this planet!

Uhm.. I can 'rationalize' that it only happened for RogerB and Max.. (I feel like a damned scilon when rationalizing that way!)

But Schwimmy, I like it when you rationalize. At least you do it honestly!

The problem for me.. Is that I don't LIKE telling RogerB that I don't believe him! - Calling him a liar as it were..

And nor should you, for it would be a lie you'd be running on me


And uniquemand wrote:

I don't tell people they are lying about this stuff.

Now that is at least good manners, Sir. Particularly to your elders!

I don't think they are. I do think that they are delusional, though, or minimally misinterpreting what actually happened.

Reading you fellows reminds me of what Copernicus and Galileo must have felt when they tried to inform the world that the Earth is not the center of the universe . . . and hell, not flat!


Rog

 

[Div6]

Well, maybe all 'strange' things aren't bad.. But I had a bellyful of this KIND of strange tales when I was being commercially mindboggeled by scientologists back in the mid 70's and 80's..

Ok, so the OT levels was not invented yet in 1963... But I still maintain that Scn, in it's intiriety, is validated by such a story.

You get the idea that all the hype about being spiritually capable to be cause over the universe and stuff is maybe true..

Well? You could argue that The Sinister Cult of Scientology ain't the only vendor.. But this kind of story IS CofS's primary sales pitch..

I do understand that what we are into here is the idea of the good old days, before the Terror Midget took over CofS. Back when 'real' OT's were made..

Problem is.. I don't believe it!

Allright.. I get told that a guy makes the universe disappear.. Not his perceptions of the universe! - There's another guy present, and he too is villy nilly plonked smack dab i the middle of an absolute void. The chair they sit on goes 'poof', together with the room, the house, the world and the intire universe. The other guy is understandably scared..

RogerB is somewhat cool.. For some reason he's certain that he can make the universe reappear.

Now, since two guys 'experinced' this I take it that this was no 'mental' happening. It was not just some disturbance af perceptions.. I must wonder why I didn't notice when it happened!? - I was present in this universe and on this planet!

Uhm.. I can 'rationalize' that it only happened for RogerB and Max.. (I feel like a damned scilon when rationalizing that way!)

The problem for me.. Is that I don't LIKE telling RogerB that I don't believe him! - Calling him a liar as it were..

I don't have the same problem with Scientology PR hype.. That is just damned lies.. Has been exposed to be beyond any reasonable doubt, and the source of 'em, Hubbard, is an asshole... Freight Trains on Venus.. Radioactive magellanic clouds dumped on planets.. But fact is, that back then, when my scientology 'freinds' told me stories like this. I did (almost) believe.. That I could become a God on earth..

This kind of stories!

So.. If I were to believe that a guy made the universe disappear.. I would believe in the obscene dog too! - And that Hubbard took a jaunt out to the Oort Cloud... And the Hoipolloy... And living forever..

Whatever..

I did make up some stories:
Thread / Dirty Despicable Lying Success Stories!

From the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Universe:

"There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which claims that this has already happened"


and this little gem: "Life, as many people have spotted, is, of course, terribly unfair."

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I consider Douglas Adams a fully viable alternative to Hubbard! - And The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy a far better cosmology than Hubbards.. It answers all your questions in an inexplicably, mindboggeling and utterly stupefying way!

It says 'Don't Panic!' on the cover!

And it has a guy in it with the name 'Slartibartfast'! - Highly recommended!

Recycle all the Hubbard shit and buy all Douglas Adams!

Do it NOW! And read like there was no tomorrow! - After all.. The Earth might be demolished tomorrow!

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Hells bells! - I just realized what you were sayin' Div6!!!

RogerB discovered what the universe is for and why it's there... This of course caused it to instantly become something else and more bizarre!

And thus rendered all Hubbards texts into confused rubbish. Hubbard, of course, explained the old universe!

See, how Douglas Adams can explain the inexplicable! - And he gives us kneeslapping bellylaughs while doing it!

 

[RogerB]

Absolutely!

Recycle all the Hubbard shit and buy all Douglas Adams!

Do it NOW! And read like there was no tomorrow! - After all.. The Earth might be demolished tomorrow!

Yes, absolutely! I might have another stupid, bigger accident and get the idea, who gives a shit!
:run:

Rog

 

[RogerB]

Hells bells! - I just realized what you were sayin' Div6!!!

RogerB discovered what the universe is for and why it's there... This of course caused it to instantly become something else and more bizarre!

And thus rendered all Hubbards texts into confused rubbish. Hubbard, of course, explained the old universe!

See, how Douglas Adams can explain the inexplicable! - And he gives us kneeslapping bellylaughs while doing it!

See, Schwimmy,

When you try hard, and rationalize honestly, you show brilliance!!

I think I'll be your friend afterall!

Roger-Podger