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A comment re " The Shocking Truth behind the Scientology Xenu Story " by aaron saxton

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
what a post ! LB , I have bookmarked that one...

Are you for real ? - If you are , then those 1950's processes are the closest to the truth and confirm my suspicions of 30 plus years - He just had to keep selling us stuff - he led us away from the truth -eg SOP8C and similiar processes - he was at his most honest during this period...
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Woops, sorry bad translation, got my figures crossed, $10000 total cost to buy. It needs work still, but theres plenty of houses around for that sort of ammount. You could get one for more, sunnybitch would be much more. Depends what kind of life you want, pottering around the tomatoes or dancing the night away.

Internet connections are fine, theres dongles in the countryside and fast connections in towns or dialup, which isnt so good. Dongle connections depend sometimes on the cloud cover, literally you can watch the connection fade as a big cloud gets in the way. Yet last winter was OK when it was thickly snowing, but when it started to thaw there was too much moisture in the atmosphere for the connection to work. There was one room upstairs that I could get my dongle to work in, if the sky was clear enough.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Woops, sorry bad translation, got my figures crossed, $10000 total cost to buy. It needs work still, but theres plenty of houses around for that sort of ammount. You could get one for more, sunnybitch would be much more. Depends what kind of life you want, pottering around the tomatoes or dancing the night away.

Internet connections are fine, theres dongles in the countryside and fast connections in towns or dialup, which isnt so good. Dongle connections depend sometimes on the cloud cover, literally you can watch the connection fade as a big cloud gets in the way. Yet last winter was OK when it was thickly snowing, but when it started to thaw there was too much moisture in the atmosphere for the connection to work. There was one room upstairs that I could get my dongle to work in, if the sky was clear enough.

Maybe it'd help to get one of the 6' satellite dishes that people are tossing out and sit in it :)

Zinj
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
bloody wonderful - this board is amazing

thanks - I had my eye on sunnybitch , due to fast internet and maybe some fast women as well ( throw in fast food !) :yes:
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
The question for me has always been; 'Up till Incident II, the people weren't implanted with all the R6 sheit. Yet, they were so far from Clear and OT that they actually *elected* Xenu, before he froze them and blew them up. So, how's that happen? What good are Clear and OT if you're still a putz?'

Zinj

A cleared putz is a cleared putz. Does that answer your question?
 
Open a bed and breakfast in Bulgaria for Ex's?

La La's dongle works! :p

Seriously good post Ladybird, I'm putting it on my quotes thread.

I am one who wishes to potter around the tomatoes, and dance until early evening. :eyeroll:

Dratted hidden data lines, the whole thing's a fairy tale. The man was a writer, he knew how to sell stories.
 
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La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Yes Sunnybitch is much faster than the countryside.

I woulnt know about it myself as the bearded ladies in my village arnt that hot, but Im told that Bulgarian ladies are certainly umongst the finest that europe offers.

Zinj I might just try sitting in a disk, might even pretend Im doing superpower!
 

Div6

Crusader
It's the idea that Hubbard supposedly believes that Zenu can influence people and so can BT's - how could such low scale beings do this ? - If they can , then there may be more to the inherent abilities of beings / spirits , as the body of my post attempts to suggest...

Uh...it goes like this: Xenu = Major SP. All of the BT's on earth have him as an SP item and are PTS to him. If they are not directly PTS, they are at least "Degraded Beings" who resent any Big Being showing any kind of powerz.
And, as an added bonus, if these beings have destructive purposes they are withholding (which they DO, as the R6 implants were laced with manic destructve commands as well as constructive ones) they become robotic on the subject and respond "in opposites"

(ROBOT, 1. the individual with an evil purpose has to withhold himself because he may do destructive things. When he fails to withhold himself he commits overt acts on his fellows or other dynamics and occasionally loses control and does so. This of course makes him quite inactive. To overcome this he refuses any responsibility for his own actions. Any motion he makes must be on the responsibility of others. Thus he must have orders to operate. Therefore one could term such a person a robot and the malady could be called robotism.)

Of course it is all on a subliminal stimulus-response basis.

Unless you are talking about the Sea Org. Which seems to have "Ronbots" as its "product".
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
thanks for that post - it explains a lot

What I am refering to , to make my point clearer , Is how can Xenu etc TELEPATHICALLY do serious work in present time ? What skills does he have to contol bankers etc , that we don't that we should ? What are we missing out on ? What was not addressed in us to deal with him and his cohorts ?
 

Div6

Crusader
What I am refering to , to make my point clearer , Is how can Xenu etc TELEPATHICALLY do serious work in present time ? What skills does he have to contol bankers etc , that we don't that we should ? What are we missing out on ? What was not addressed in us to deal with him and his cohorts ?

Well, I think there are 2 things to keep in mind about this:
1) if you are not actively creating your 3rd and 4th dynamics, then they are being created for you, and the "archetype" from which they are being created (according to Hubbard) is a super mass congealed engram with bouncers, denyers, holders and mis-directors as the main script devices which happens to be "common" to all beings on this planet, indeed in this sector of the galaxy;
2) LRH had Grandiose Delusions which pre-dated the Xenu stuff. In a letter to his first wife he said ". . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed. "


At Saint Hill, as he was doing the implant GPM work, he claimed to have been part of the Battle Group that went in and destroyed Helatrobus, one of the first "implanting" civilizations on the track.

And so on. One gets the feeling that after he released OT III, he just wanted to move on, so he kept the "spin" going on the "reality bubble" that he created.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Ghostie, on OTVII you find out you mocked up all your BTs so what is the point of discussing them?

Here are a few more zingers from mankinds greatest jester:

The EP of Clear: I mocked up my own reactive mind. (Of course you wouldn't have known you had one if the old joker hadn't made up all those funnies about engrams, past lives, AAs and basic basic, etc.)

The EP of OT7: I mocked up my own BTs. ( You wouldn't have imagined those either without his hilarious rendition of the Sci Fi xenu story, which he told with a straight face, only laughing behind your back all the way to the bank.)

And of course the ever popular "Highest Holy Level" OT8, where you find out you mocked it all up. (But are still kept on the edge of your seat by the buffoonery of being assured that "History of Man" holds the TRUE keys to the universe.)
<...snip>
.
Ladybird, I'm not really sure whether or not you actually intend to create disinformation with these statements. I know that you've stated the above "EPs" several times here on ESMB.

Regardless of the validity of these "States" in scientology and solely for the sake of truth in reporting; your statements above are misinformed/false.

They create one of two impressions (a) you're being facetious or (b) you've been misinformed and don't actually know what the so-called Clear Cog really means nor what the EPs of OT7 and OT8 actually are.

I'm not being picky/pedantic about it so please take this as a good-natured inquiry, I'd love to know how you came by these oft-repeated conclusions.

Would you care to clarify this?
 

angel

Patron with Honors
Thanks for your post Panda.

I have no reality on Xenu. I only know that when I do TRO with my eyes open for a real long time of confronting, just being there for the case in front of me no matter what that case throws out I am just there for that case as a thetan not a body, I see mock ups that look like mutants and I believe what I see are the BT's mock ups. I know other's see them too.

The mess of all this is, ghostwalker is sorting out the lies from the truth's because its not all bullshit. Based on Thelema Kaballah this practice that LRH put out there is experimental in my opinion. It can go right and it can go very very wrong.

Jen
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
thanks for your post , angel

Yes , I am determined to get to truth of this exterior with full perception thing - Allready I have had great experiences due to SOP8c - I don't have an auditor - I do it "self analysis style " - straight from the book - I would like to report an observation - Exteriorization processes are not that "charged" in my experience - you are'nt running really charged pieces of case like you would in Life Repair , for example.
These are re-familiarization and education steps - the effects are permanent - My tactile ability as a spirit was the first thing to improve - but I sense that I will do quite a few hours yet before I can see without the bodies eyes - Due to recent studies of posts on this board - If you aren't slow comm lag and an experienced scn , sooner or later I can't see how exterior with full perception could not be achieved - I no longer believe that case level has much to do with it - After all what happens when you pass away ? - you exteriorize most certainly without anybody's permission or grade certificate ! :D
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's the idea that Hubbard supposedly believes that Zenu can influence people and so can BT's - how could such low scale beings do this ? - If they can , then there may be more to the inherent abilities of beings / spirits , as the body of my post attempts to suggest...

Wrong believed that we were all degraded being, he and his nemisis were real OT's and the rest of us just extras on the set.

He was a miserable tosser.

He was just playing with us, I dont know why he bothered, we dont exist, we were just figments of his imagination.

There is very little evidence that Ron was a Scientologist! This idea usuallly gets mostly ignored by ESMBers.

But where is the evidence that he actually ran much of scientology on his "case"?

His Grades were certainly "out" almost all the time. So from this I conclude that he never really ran much lower level stuff himself. Even wrongly run in the wrong order the gardes processes would have given him some ease from his out-ruds distress that he manifested!

We don't know if he ran OTIII or GPMs on himself much or whether he just intuited implants etc due to some non-standard, non-scn, "psychic" procedures.

He certainly has a track record of tossing off "tech" without much apparent thought or research.

Refer to Helen O'Brien's "Dianetics in Limbo" where she describes his lecture style and behaviour at the Philadelphia Doctorate course, that she set up for him.

Or refer to the only known recorded "research" procedure of Ron's when Mary Sue "audited" him in 1951 (I think) and he fished around for meter verification of his whole track opera, and when she told him the needle went "pow" on his "discovery" of beings called Targs.

We know David Mayo "developed" NOTs from "auditing" Ron, but we don't know how different the Mayo NOTs processes are to what Ron "ran" in session with Mayo.

We know Otto Roos says Ron's folders were a non-standard mess of "processes". I suspect these were similar fish and fumble techniques that Ron called "research", similar to Mary Sue's squirrel auditing of him on Targs.

This is the only evidence we have as to how "standard" Ron's own application of his tech was.

So my contention is that Ron was not a scientologist in any form that we would recognise as one. Of course, also, many of his SO orders and SO clap-trap are in direct contradiction to scientology basics.

So Ron, the non-scientologist, created an equal non-scientologist called Xenu who had all the promised scientology abilities, just as he himself had, even though neither of them were scientologists! :omg:
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is very little evidence that Ron was a Scientologist! This idea usuallly gets mostly ignored by ESMBers.

But where is the evidence that he actually ran much of scientology on his "case"?

His Grades were certainly "out" almost all the time. So from this I conclude that he never really ran much lower level stuff himself. Even wrongly run in the wrong order the gardes processes would have given him some ease from his out-ruds distress that he manifested!

We don't know if he ran OTIII or GPMs on himself much or whether he just intuited implants etc due to some non-standard, non-scn, "psychic" procedures.

He certainly has a track record of tossing off "tech" without much apparent thought or research.

Refer to Helen O'Brien's "Dianetics in Limbo" where she describes his lecture style and behaviour at the Philadelphia Doctorate course, that she set up for him.

Or refer to the only known recorded "research" procedure of Ron's when Mary Sue "audited" him in 1951 (I think) and he fished around for meter verification of his whole track opera, and when she told him the needle went "pow" on his "discovery" of beings called Targs.

We know David Mayo "developed" NOTs from "auditing" Ron, but we don't know how different the Mayo NOTs processes are to what Ron "ran" in session with Mayo.

We know Otto Roos says Ron's folders were a non-standard mess of "processes". I suspect these were similar fish and fumble techniques that Ron called "research", similar to Mary Sue's squirrel auditing of him on Targs.

This is the only evidence we have as to how "standard" Ron's own application of his tech was.

So my contention is that Ron was not a scientologist in any form that we would recognise as one. Of course, also, many of his SO orders and SO clap-trap are in direct contradiction to scientology basics.

So Ron, the non-scientologist, created an equal non-scientologist called Xenu who had all the promised scientology abilities, just as he himself had, even though neither of them were scientologists! :omg:


One of LRH's repeated statements is a magician's rule that one must not become effect of one's own cause.

I agree. LRH was not a scientologist. Probably in his mind, he was Source (the Magician).
 

the-ghostwhowalks

Patron with Honors
thanks guys - 2 great posts !

Lionheart , I will seek out Helen O'Brien's "Dianetics in Limbo" ? perhaps it is an e-book on the web...
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dianetics in Limbo is excellent, especially for those who believe Ron only went "wrong" in the 60's due to his "brave" research into upper levels.

Also great for those who believe Scn only went "wrong" when DM took over.

Helen clearly lays out Ron's 1950's already established characteristics of being the only right one, control freak and unfaithful, untrusting "friend"/colleague, as well as a squirrel maker up of "tech" without research.

She writes from the point of view of a disappointed scientology enthusiast and a fairly uncritical, but honest friend of Ron's.
 
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