A comment re " The Shocking Truth behind the Scientology Xenu Story " by aaron saxton

[Smilla]

I don't know about the 'church' because I was never on staff, but I know that a lot of people from 'Rons Org', are heavily into fighting Xenu and his BT Org. That was the reason I never hooked up with them. It seems to me that they are even weirder than the cult when it comes to beliefs. I no longer have any desire to hook up with any Scientology group, as it's all pretty crazy when viewed from a distance.

 

[lkwdblds]

Extremely Intersting Topic

Of course this topic is extremely interesting! I found Lionheart's remarks about whether or not Hubbard was a Scientologist himself eye opening! I always cite the fact that he never followed his own policies; constantly ignoring them and doing whatever he felt like. Probably the easiest instance of this to see is that he did not Write Up His Hats and do Hat Turnovers as per his Power Change Formula. He appointed no successor - Pat and Annie Broker were named Loyal Officers and were the top in authority, I guess. However,that was not made clear since their main skills were not in Management but rather as members of Ron;s household staff. Hubbard promoted himself to "Admiral", an Admiral with no fleet and sailed off to "God Knows Where" to do further research without a body.

Hubbard devoted his adult life from age 39 to his body death at age 74 to Dianetics and Scientology and made no effort, really, to write up his hats and post the best possible successors for each of his hats, so right there one sees that he did not make a concerted attempt to apply his own policies.

I could cite dozens of other incidents where I was involved when he did not follow policiy. Another key incident was when Otto Roos, acting as Ron's C/S tried to invoke Scientology policy and not let Hubbard read his own PC folders. Hubbard's response was to slug Otto in the face, strip him of his Certs and off load him with an SP declare. These two instances alone suffice to illustrate that Ron did not consider himself a Scientologist.

THE OT III STORY:
I agree that very evil personages are just assumed to have enormous OT Powers, lasting over periods of tens of milliions of years and spanning from one end of this Galaxy to the other. The abilities these personages, especially Xenu, have far exceed anything which is supposed to be available at the top of the C of S Bridge. These people destroy the lives of trillions of beings in the regular course of their day to day living. They must not be thetans, because Ron has taught us that thetans are bascially good and offers as proof that when a thetan does evil, either consciously or inadvertently, it immediately reduces its reach and its abilities so as to limit itself from doing further damage in the future. A thetan is said by Ron to be so good that it does not take much to cause a thetan to feel he has transgressed and committed an overt - maybe just taking a stapler from another persons office by mistake would be more than enough to get a thetan to reduce his reach and his powers. If this is the case, how can thetans be impervious to destroying the lives of 13 trillion individuals!! Why do the evil minions of Xenu not weaken in power from their prodigious overt acts? Meanwhile, the good guys seem to just be patsies. Even though they are just and moral for the most part, they are easily rounded up, beaten into submission and though they exist in enormous numbers, they are helpless to form alliances to defend themselves.

ANOTHER INCONSISTENCY - Despite the destructive power of the evil doers collectively, when encountered individually, it is easy to intend them to do whatever one wants them to do including intending for them to just take off. Why would that be true? Is evil OT and powerful collectively but when encountered individually, one on one, it becomes a patsy and obeys another's intentions without a fight? What gives with this?

THE JEWISH CONNECTION - I was born Jewish and went to Sunday School, had a Bar Mitzvah, and moved in Jewish circles in my youth in West Los Angeles. Though I left the religion when I was 21, I never met any bankers that were plotting to run the world. The Jews were mainly just raising families, runing their businesses, partying, playing bridge, or for the women playing mah johng. They were very family oriented, they were patriotic as regards serving the USA in the military etc. The only differences to Christians that I saw was just in not accepting Jesus as their savior and perhaps being a little more heartless and pushy in their financial and business dealings than non Jews. The Scientology Orgs in the 70's and 80's were loaded with Jews, perhaps as high as 20%. There were Jews all over the Apollo in 1973, one of them in a top Financial post was Mike Goldstein of Idenics fame. I knew Sherman Lenske at UCLA in 1960. He was in a Jewish fraternity which I was pledging. He became LRH's Attorney probably in the late 70's and prepared LRH's wills for him and he and his Son are on the Board of the Church of Spiritual Technology (CST) at the top of C of S's corporate structure. If LRH intended the destruction of Jews as a primary Sea Org goal, he sure had a funny way of showing it, making a Jewish Attorney Firm, the executor of his estate and giving Jews 2 of the 3 non Scientology seats on CST's Board of Directors.

SUMMARY - There are so many inconsistencies with the OT III story, both the story itself and the aura surrounding it, that it is hard to take the story seriously. I will say this, though, in all honesty. When I did the NOTs steps and actions run on me by my NOTS auditor, I did feel changes for the better occuring and had wins. I had wins with all my Dianetics and Scientology auditing. Whether those wins were real or I am just brainwashed into believing they are real, I don't know but part of my persona is to claim to be honest and objective and I did get wins on NOTs. On OTIII itself, I did not get much in the area of wins, nothing really notable, but I did on NOTs.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Of course this topic is extremely interesting! I found Lionheart's remarks about whether or not Hubbard was a Scientologist himself eye opening! I always cite the fact that he never followed his own policies; constantly ignoring them and doing whatever he felt like. Probably the easiest instance of this to see is that he did not Write Up His Hats and do Hat Turnovers as per his Power Change Formula. He appointed no successor - Pat and Annie Broker were named Loyal Officers and were the top in authority, I guess. However,that was not made clear since their main skills were not in Management but rather as members of Ron;s household staff. Hubbard promoted himself to "Admiral", an Admiral with no fleet and sailed off to "God Knows Where" to do further research without a body.

Hubbard devoted his adult life from age 39 to his body death at age 74 to Dianetics and Scientology and made no effort, really, to write up his hats and post the best possible successors for each of his hats, so right there one sees that he did not make a concerted attempt to apply his own policies.

I could cite dozens of other incidents where I was involved when he did not follow policiy. Another key incident was when Otto Roos, acting as Ron's C/S tried to invoke Scientology policy and not let Hubbard read his own PC folders. Hubbard's response was to slug Otto in the face, strip him of his Certs and off load him with an SP declare. These two instances alone suffice to illustrate that Ron did not consider himself a Scientologist.

[...]

It has been said that the HCOB's PL's, other write-ups, and the spoken words, ARE LRH's hat write-up.

Your point about Him following his own tech and policies is correct. He did as He damned well pleased.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Lakey have a good google on the protocols of zion. This is the antisemite publication that was behind soviet antisemitism, nazi's loved it too and it's still being read as gospel truth by idiots all over the world. It must have been on Wrongs reading list. It has been disproved many times over, but you cant disprove anything to someone who loves a good conspiracy theory.

 

[lkwdblds]

La La, Thanks for the tip!

Lakey have a good google on the protocols of zion. This is the antisemite publication that was behind soviet antisemitism, nazi's loved it too and it's still being read as gospel truth by idiots all over the world. It must have been on Wrongs reading list. It has been disproved many times over, but you cant disprove anything to someone who loves a good conspiracy theory.

Thanks for the tip on "The Protocols of Zion". Of course I am aware that it existed and have seen Nazi promo citing it as authority. The front cover of the Nazi propoganda shows characterizational stereotypes of Jewish faces with extremely hooked noses and other pronounced exagerations of Jewish features but I never actually read the materials themselves. Maybe I will Google them and check it out.

Speaking of what Jews look like, I have seen every type, ranging from closely resembling those stereotypes the Nazi's used all the way to Nordic looking Jews who could have passed for Aryan SS Camp Guards. The Jews intermarried so much in Europe and in the Asian parts of Russia that they can look pretty much like anything you care to name. Still there is something funny about being Jewish and growing up with them, one Jew can tell another a mile away. Its not just looks, there is some sort of aura and certain mannerisms and patterns of speech which almost all Jews have. I don't feel that I look Jewish and am often taken for Italian, Greek or Lebanese, also sometimes as Russian, and yet last summer, my train from Berlin to Vienna stopped in a station in Breclav, Czech Republic, and in the Breclav station a man who was an older Jewish man, born in Russia, heard me talking at the information counter and walked right up to me, introduced himself, and said to me right off the bat, "You are Jewish, aren't you?" I said, ohmygod, how did you know? He said, I saw you in the station about 100 feet away and I told my wife, that guy over there is a Jew. I was absolutely amazed because when I tell people I am of Jewish blood, most people are really surprised and say, I never would have guessed it.

There is a WWII movie from 1991 called "Europa, Europa" where a youth of high school age is a Polish Jew who has his parents killed by the Nazi's. The Russian army captures him and for a while he fights for the Russian army in Poland. The German army marches in and defeats the Russians and the boy is left homeless again. A Nazi officer likes him. and believing he is Russian, takes him into his house and adopts him as his Son. The boy is sent to a school where in one scene, they are discussing characteristics of different races. By chance, the boy is brought up to the front of the class and is tested for race and is confirmed to be Nordic. The boy is circumsized and so never takes showers with the other boys for fear of being detected as a Jew. It is a very exciting story.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

I have hear this stated before.

It has been said that the HCOB's PL's, other write-ups, and the spoken words, ARE LRH's hat write-up.

Your point about Him following his own tech and policies is correct. He did as He damned well pleased.

Ted, I have had this stated to me before, about a year and a half ago by some guy I liked who was on IFACHAT. At that time, I still was loyal to LRH and thought he did far more good than bad. In the last 18 months, I have totally changed my beliefs.

I sort of bought the argument then but not totally. Now I flat out reject that argument. HCOB's HCO PL's, etc. are one thing and a Hat Write Up is another thing. A hat write is supposed to include everything about the post in a specific and organized format. It contains the Post's purpose, product and ideal scene and also the stat for that post. It contains a chart of flow lines showing which other posts that post connects with, both as to inflow and outflow. It is supposed to contain every type of form connected with that particular post. It can be (and usually is) made up of HCOB's and HCO PL's and other LRH materials. To me, it is a cop out to assert that the Policies and Bulletins which often make up the main body of a hat writeup are the Hat writeup.

Just look at it. Those Bulletins and Policies may be spread out all over the Org, in the Course Rooms, and the Qual Library, on the book shelves of the Ethics Officer. A new appointee to a post may not know of the existence of all the materials and even if he did, he would have to run around the Org and make copies, locating references and making copies of them, which usually required a CSW be allowed to copy materials. They would then have to be collated and put into the correct order. Even then, the purpose, product, ideal scene and the stat of the post would likely not be included and there would be no chart of Flow Lines both into and out from the Post.

As part of the Power Change formula, the post is supposed to be made occupiable for the new person who is to taking over. Just having the Bulletins and Policy's written comes nowhere near providing an On Policy Hat Write Up!!!! A lot of people challenged me on this, saying that LRH must be cut some slack for all the work he did for mankind or for researching OTIII and damaging his mind and body on our behalf. To this I say, "BULLSHIT1". LRH did not cut anyone any any slack. He put Nancy Many, nearly 5 months pregnant onto the RPF, something I just found out about yesterday. He put me on a post talking on the phone all day in Portugal when I knew no Portugese. I was expected to make it go right. He put me on as Program's Chief CCLA, doing Evals, when I had not yet started the Evaluator's course. I was expected to make it go right. Three weeks later, I was busted and ultimately off loaded, I was told I was insane and incompetent, that I was a Freeloader and a Degraded Being. WHY WOULD I EVER CUT THIS MAN ANY SLACK? He was supposed to be by far the biggest being of all of us and the biggest being in the entire Universe. This man did not make things go right and did not provide proper succession for his many posts when he passed on. A small group of insiders were left to fight it out as to who would take over and the one who had the biggest reactive mind and was willing to commit the most overts and tell the biggest lies and had the muscle and the balls to enforce his will won out.

LRH failed all of us in not providing Power Changes Formulas for his successors. There is no need for anyone to rationalize why or to agree that writing HCOB's and HCO PL's were equivalent to providing actual hat write ups. He failed his own acid test which he applied with impunity to all others. He did not make things go right. Ergo, one can not deny he was a being with a lot of theta endowment but he was not as big a being as some people give him credit for. IF ONE HAS TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR AND CUT SLACK FOR A "SUPER BIG BEING" THEN HOW BIG CAN THAT BIG BEING BE? Obviously, the man was a Big Being but equally obviously he was not the biggest bieng in the entire universe, the galaxy and probably not the biggest being on Earth.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

I kind of fielded that question in my last post.

It's the idea that Hubbard supposedly believes that Zenu can influence people and so can BT's - how could such low scale beings do this ? - If they can , then there may be more to the inherent abilities of beings / spirits , as the body of my post attempts to suggest...

I already made a stab at answering that on my previous post. I know it is a long post and maybe you missed it. The gist of it was that according to LRH tech, thetans are basically good and that if they transgress, they exhibit that basic goodness by making their reach and their abilties smaller.

In the Xenu case, the evil doers do not get smaller no matter how many trillions of lives they wreck, they seem to only gain more OT abilities by commiting overts. They are not in a downward spiral as are normal thetans in this universe but are in an upwards spiral. You then have to draw your own conclusions from the avialable choices.

1.The Xenu story is just made up and is not true.
2. The evildoers of the Xenu story are not thetans.
3, The evildoers are thetans but they don't feel they are committing overts by killing trillions of people.
4. LRH knows the overt / withhold tech is not valid and just made it up to gain more control over people and control and take money from them.

I reject Items 2 and 3 and go with Item 1 and also to some degree, Item 4. That is just my opinion. You can form your own conclusions. I do touch on this point in my above dissertation if you care to re read it. I hope this helps.
Lakey

 

[thetanic]

You then have to draw your only conclusions from the avialable choices.

1.The Xenu story is just made up and is not true.
2. The evildoers of the Xenu story are not thetans.
3, The evildoers are thetans but they don't feel they are committing overts by killing trillions of people.
4. LRH knows the overt / withhold tech is not valid and just made it up to gain more control over people and control and take money from them.

5. LRH was still so stuck in the (real or imagined) OT III incident that he was never able to get out of it enough to see the inconsistencies mentioned in #4.

 

[Ted]

Ted, I have had this stated to me before, about a year and a half ago by some guy I liked who was on IFACHAT. At that time, I still was loyal to LRH and thought he did far more good than bad. In the last 18 months, I have totally changed my beliefs.

I sort of bought the argument then but not totally. Now I flat out reject that argument. HCOB's HCO PL's, etc. are one thing and a Hat Write Up is another thing. A hat write is supposed to include everything about the post in a specific and organized format. It contains the Post's purpose, product and ideal scene and also the stat for that post. It contains a chart of flow lines showing which other posts that post connects with, both as to inflow and outflow. It is supposed to contain every type of form connected with that particular post. It can be (and usually is) made up of HCOB's and HCO PL's and other LRH materials. To me, it is a cop out to assert that the Policies and Bulletins which often make up the main body of a hat writeup are the Hat writeup.

Just look at it. Those Bulletins and Policies may be spread out all over the Org, in the Course Rooms, and the Qual Library, on the book shelves of the Ethics Officer. A new appointee to a post may not know of the existence of all the materials and even if he did, he would have to run around the Org and make copies, locating references and making copies of them, which usually required a CSW be allowed to copy materials. They would then have to be collated and put into the correct order. Even then, the purpose, product, ideal scene and the stat of the post would likely not be included and there would be no chart of Flow Lines both into and out from the Post.

As part of the Power Change formula, the post is supposed to be made occupiable for the new person who is to taking over. Just having the Bulletins and Policy's written comes nowhere near providing an On Policy Hat Write Up!!!! A lot of people challenged me on this, saying that LRH must be cut some slack for all the work he did for mankind or for researching OTIII and damaging his mind and body on our behalf. To this I say, "BULLSHIT1". LRH did not cut anyone any any slack. He put Nancy Many, nearly 5 months pregnant onto the RPF, something I just found out about yesterday. He put me on a post talking on the phone all day in Portugal when I knew no Portugese. I was expected to make it go right. He put me on as Program's Chief CCLA, doing Evals, when I had not yet started the Evaluator's course. I was expected to make it go right. Three weeks later, I was busted and ultimately off loaded, I was told I was insane and incompetent, that I was a Freeloader and a Degraded Being. WHY WOULD I EVER CUT THIS MAN ANY SLACK? He was supposed to be by far the biggest being of all of us and the biggest being in the entire Universe. This man did not make things go right and did not provide proper succession for his many posts when he passed on. A small group of insiders were left to fight it out as to who would take over and the one who had the biggest reactive mind and was willing to commit the most overts and tell the biggest lies and had the muscle and the balls to enforce his will won out.

LRH failed all of us in not providing Power Changes Formulas for his successors. There is no need for anyone to rationalize why or to agree that writing HCOB's and HCO PL's were equivalent to providing actual hat write ups. He failed his own acid test which he applied with impunity to all others. He did not make things go right. Ergo, one can not deny he was a being with a lot of theta endowment but he was not as big a being as some people give him credit for. IF ONE HAS TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR AND CUT SLACK FOR A "SUPER BIG BEING" THEN HOW BIG CAN THAT BIG BEING BE? Obviously, the man was a Big Being but equally obviously he was not the biggest bieng in the entire universe, the galaxy and probably not the biggest being on Earth.
Lakey

Well if you are going to travel down that road, I say call the SOB back to handle his post because the stats crashed as soon as he left!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Wrong was a super thetan, he never could have been dumped in a volcano, because he had red hair! And also he was a reincarnation of the budha, so he was immune from being a human.

Xenu the warrier princess is the anti-ron.

I's like matter and anti-matter.

One was freeing mankind from MEST and the other turning people into MEST.

My guess is that actually the worrier princess might be the true saviour of mankind.

We must look out for her, she's working in Wall street, and probably held prisoner by DM.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Lakey, hi, and apparently theres a movie called the protocols of zion.

Though Im not sure if its an expose or neo-nazi crap.

I have seen very Ethopian Israelis, Indian Israelis and Red haired Arabs. Some Israelis are very pale red haired and actually have no genetic connection to the 12 tribes of Israel. Race is pretty meaningless, there were many converts in Russia in history. Many of the Russians that emigrated to Israel before the wall came down were just wanting to get out of Russia, they had neither the Jewish religion or blood. Religion was pretty much illegal in Soviet times so no one really knew what their religion was.

I must say Ive seen very few super rich Rockerfella type Jews. The ones that were herded out of shtetles and ghettos in Europe to go to death camps were hardly creaming off the profits from the capitalist sytem either.

So yes, you should read it.

 

[FoTi]

Dianetics in Limbo, an excellent resource.

It shows that Hubbard's research and management style was well in place before 1964.

Dianetics in Limbo

Thanks for this, Ted.

 

[lkwdblds]

You are a fountainhead of interesting ingo.

Lakey, hi, and apparently theres a movie called the protocols of zion.

Though Im not sure if its an expose or neo-nazi crap.

I have seen very Ethopian Israelis, Indian Israelis and Red haired Arabs. Some Israelis are very pale red haired and actually have no genetic connection to the 12 tribes of Israel. Race is pretty meaningless, there were many converts in Russia in history. Many of the Russians that emigrated to Israel before the wall came down were just wanting to get out of Russia, they had neither the Jewish religion or blood. Religion was pretty much illegal in Soviet times so no one really knew what their religion was.

I must say Ive seen very few super rich Rockerfella type Jews. The ones that were herded out of shtetles and ghettos in Europe to go to death camps were hardly creaming off the profits from the capitalist sytem either.

So yes, you should read it.

La La - I had underestimated you. I initially thought you were just a jokester with a colorful style of bashing people. The last 5 or so posts of yours have revealed that you are chock full of interesting knowledge, some of it is stuff that is new to me and all of it is presented in an informative and lively manner.

I am familiar with the Ethiopian Jews. I had never thought about Russians lying about being Jewish just to immigrate out of the Soviet Union. It makes a lot of sense. As to "Europa, Europa" I watched it earlier this year. It was just good fiction and had no pro Nazi overtones. You should rent it. When the Jewish boy is brought up in front of his class, there are charts of various acceptable racial types as well as unacceptable Jewish looking types hung up on the front wall of the classroom. The professor had calipers to measure certain ratios on the boys face. The boy had very dark hair and his cheek bones were not as high as a stereotypic Nazi so the Instructor prounounced the Jewish boy an Aryan with some strong "Baltic" inter racial characteristics. The Baltic area consisted of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and on up into southern Finland. The professor said that these areas made one a provisional Aryan, they could join the Hitler Youth, become officers in the Army, etc. but they were not eligible to join the SS which was only for pure Aryans. The Jewish boy was circumsized and so could not take showers with the other boys for fear of being found out. That made the movie very exciting.
Lakey