A conversation with a Scientologist regarding disconnection.

[riptide]

An excerpt from a recent conversation I had with someone at the top of the bridge in Scientology.

My question:
Hypothetical; your daughter has a friend who leaves Scientology. Blows staff or something, gets declared. Your daughter refuses to disconnect. Your daughter gets declared. She is unwilling to do A to E herself, and she decided she is in disagreement with the practice of Disconnection in general and decides for philosophical/moral reasons she can no longer be a Scientologist, yet is not antipathetic to your being one. The church pressures you to handle or disconnect. She won't handle.


The answer:
"I would disconnect from my daughter in a heartbeat, if this were the case! Much as I love her and all. And I am not being glib about this answer. I know that sounds crazy to you probably but it is not if you look at the bigger picture on the track. I don’t want to be connected to someone who is SP. Just not worth it. I don’t care how close I was to them. I care about the MANY lifetimes ahead of me. I also know the misery in being connected to SP’s. Not worth it to me. It would clearly be anti-social for her to let this get that far. It’s too easy to handle at earlier points without going to this drama point.

I figure I only “borrow” this being this lifetime anyway. They are an individual just like me. My spiritual freedom forever is much more important than any connection this lifetime. Not only that but I have been around people who have some heavy shit like that going on. They suck your attention, make you constantly be in a problem with them and I just don’t care to live my life like this. It’s too easy to have theta being who genuinely care about others around you to bother with this crap. Family or no family. If that person is SOCIAL they would never get themselves into a position of being Declared this day and age anyway. It’s a damned low condition and they HAVE to have some serious o/w they are not willing to get off to do so. It is my OBSERVATION that people who get into this have some crimes they are covering up. NO question about it."

 

[klidov]

*sigh*

*thinking quietly*

I have no response for this.

 

[Div6]

"Its the greatest good for ME!"


That is the Scn MindF***.

 

[Alan]

WIIFM = "What's in it for me!", says unknown Scio!

 

[Pixie]

This is shocking, but it shouldn't be, that's the way it is when you're 'in', one is heavily indoctrinated indeed. I had to read this a couple of times, I thought about myself when I was in, and realized, this is not sane thinking, well actually this is not thinking at all, and it's only when one is out and through the other side that one can see the pure and utter insantiy of it all. This person possibly feels he's 'doing the right thing', being very righteous and pious too. It's frightening.

I read a write up on the net last night thanks to a link Escalus gave and it's called 'how to talk to a scientologist', I couldn't believe it, it was very well written however it reminded me that if one goes up against these beliefs, the heels are dugg in and their 'beliefs' act like some kind of impenatrable wall. It makes me shudder to think that I ever thought like this, what an utter mind fuck.

This was very thought provoking Riptide, thank you for posting this. It's a reminder of how far I've come.

 

[nexus100]

There are no "lifetimes", there is now and only and forever will be. Conditions give credence to time, a dangerous enterprise in dealings with fellow beings. Maybe you can roll the ball uphill. Don't try it with people.

 

[Tanstaafl]

"Dude, that's pretty fucked up right there."

 

[Feral]

OMFG!

This is the viewpoint of one who has the envisionment of total freedom. The tone 40 scientologist.

Here is a person who has been so indoctrinated via sec checks and ethics that they can not even distinguish between an SP and a person who has been declared SP as a control mechanism by a totalitarian cult.

Someone who has lost all the humanity that bound him or her to their family, friends and maybe even their true self.

Tragic.

 

[nexus100]

OMFG!

This is the viewpoint of one who has the envisionment of total freedom. The tone 40 scientologist.

Here is a person who has been so indoctrinated via sec checks and ethics that they can not even distinguish between an SP and a person who has been declared SP as a control mechanism by a totalitarian cult.

Someone who has lost all the humanity that bound him or her to their family, friends and maybe even their true self.

Tragic.

Are there SP's? Is there anyone in the universe that you can't communicate with, see the game, play it to your advantage if necessary or just play it as necessary? Why grant another power to dominate you? If they fool you so what? You were fooled, why blame them? There are nasty folk but I think even the nastiest can be reasoned with within their framework of understanding, if one will stretch to that point. SP tech is idiocy to me.

 

[Emma]

Are there SP's? Is there anyone in the universe that you can't communicate with, see the game, play it to your advantage if necessary or just play it as necessary? Why grant another power to dominate you? If they fool you so what? You were fooled, why blame them? There are nasty folk but I think even the nastiest can be reasoned with within their framework of understanding, if one will stretch to that point. SP tech is idiocy to me.

Where the HELL have you been? :confused2:

I've sent out internet search parties looking for you everywhere!

There have been so many serious posts and NONE have been in the serious thread because you BLEW!

I hope you have been having a seriously good time in your absense or there will be a price to pay.

 

[nexus100]

Where the HELL have you been? :confused2:

I've sent out internet search parties looking for you everywhere!

There have been so many serious posts and NONE have been in the serious thread because you BLEW!

I hope you have been having a seriously good time in your absense or there will be a price to pay.

Emma I beg your forgiveness. I have discovered that I am not a multi-tasker and the real estate crash has required duty to the cause of not starving, in the form of endeavor other than posting on ESMB. It is lovely to be missed, however. Thank you.

 

[Free to shine]

Awful. And such a good example of the end product of extreme thought control. Family means nothing, friends mean nothing, integrity means nothing. Life is not to be lived in the present, but in future lives. God!

Hey Nexus - missed you too!

 

[nexus100]

Awful. And such a good example of the end product of extreme thought control. Family means nothing, friends mean nothing, integrity means nothing. Life is not to be lived in the present, but in future lives. God!

Hey Nexus - missed you too!

Hi Free, I missed you two.

 

[Dulloldfart]

An excerpt from a recent conversation I had with someone at the top of the bridge in Scientology. <snip>

How hypothetical are we talking here? Does this person have a daughter, and if so how old is she?

Paul

 

[riptide]

OMFG! Here is a person who has been so indoctrinated via sec checks and ethics that they can not even distinguish between an SP and a person who has been declared SP as a control mechanism by a totalitarian cult. Tragic.

yes, thanks. that pretty well sums it up for me as well.

 

[WrongPlaceRightTime]

Awful. And such a good example of the end product of extreme thought control. Family means nothing, friends mean nothing, integrity means nothing. Life is not to be lived in the present, but in future lives. God!

Hey Nexus - missed you too!

That really sums it up.

Scientologists, wake up! You are living in L Ron's Sci-Fi Pulp.

 

[Alanzo]

An excerpt from a recent conversation I had with someone at the top of the bridge in Scientology.

My question:
Hypothetical; your daughter has a friend who leaves Scientology. Blows staff or something, gets declared. Your daughter refuses to disconnect. Your daughter gets declared. She is unwilling to do A to E herself, and she decided she is in disagreement with the practice of Disconnection in general and decides for philosophical/moral reasons she can no longer be a Scientologist, yet is not antipathetic to your being one. The church pressures you to handle or disconnect. She won't handle.


The answer:
"I would disconnect from my daughter in a heartbeat, if this were the case! Much as I love her and all. And I am not being glib about this answer. I know that sounds crazy to you probably but it is not if you look at the bigger picture on the track. I don’t want to be connected to someone who is SP. Just not worth it. I don’t care how close I was to them. I care about the MANY lifetimes ahead of me. I also know the misery in being connected to SP’s. Not worth it to me. It would clearly be anti-social for her to let this get that far. It’s too easy to handle at earlier points without going to this drama point.

I figure I only “borrow” this being this lifetime anyway. They are an individual just like me. My spiritual freedom forever is much more important than any connection this lifetime. Not only that but I have been around people who have some heavy shit like that going on. They suck your attention, make you constantly be in a problem with them and I just don’t care to live my life like this. It’s too easy to have theta being who genuinely care about others around you to bother with this crap. Family or no family. If that person is SOCIAL they would never get themselves into a position of being Declared this day and age anyway. It’s a damned low condition and they HAVE to have some serious o/w they are not willing to get off to do so. It is my OBSERVATION that people who get into this have some crimes they are covering up. NO question about it."

This is an excellent snapshot of the cult mindset.

Well done, Riptide.

Notice the HUGE uninspected contradiction in her mind:

1. "...I would disconnect from my daughter in a heartbeat.... I care about the MANY lifetimes ahead of me. I also know the misery in being connected to SP’s. Not worth it to me..."

vs.

2. "...I just don’t care to live my life like this. It’s too easy to have theta being who genuinely care about others around you to bother with this crap..."

Spotting contradictions is very therapeutic for Scientologists. Underneath that contradiction is the real person who joined Scientology because they genuinely cared about others.

The Scientology Valence, installed over the real person, has usurped her loyalties to her own daughter and made her think that the only way to care for someone is to keep them loyal to Scientology, too. This artifical Scientology Valence is hiding the real care and love she actually and naturally feels for her own daughter. That care and love is VERY POWERFUL.

All she needs is just a little help to glance at the hole in the dike to unleash the flood.

She just needs to look at that contradiction.

For those lurking, and for those still in contact with those still in, find contradictions like these and gracefully, and lightly, get Scientologists to look at them.

Sometimes, a glance is all that is needed. Once they become aware of a contradiction in their thinking they will work it and work it until they break free.

If you can get them to look at that contradiction, you will have the person freed from this mental trap very quickly.

 

[riptide]

How hypothetical are we talking here? Does this person have a daughter, and if so how old is she?

Paul

Yes Paul, there is more to this letter which continues to shock along this line. A real life example and explanation was given as a follow up to the last paragraph. Apparently my hypothetical question was almost dead on, however in real life, worse. Parents lost a child over this. A family was shattered. (They were being "anti-social")

I'll probably just leave it at that, as she is (was) a friend (wow, this opens a whole new conversation with myself about her and others like her) and would *probably* object (go ape shit) if she knew I was sharing her letter with the whole world.

Later in the letter I was being sec checked. (Surely I had crimes!) Actually, I do have some O/W's that go way back and I'll thank her later (telepathically) when I clean all that up on my own. If I was looking for some clarity though, this letter really helped. I must openly admit that I used to *almost* think this way for about 10 minutes after I completed the PTS SP course. I had an epiphany one day when I looked at what it would take for me to be "qualled" for upper services, in terms of my viewpoint, and I literally saw myself entering into a collective frame of thinking not unlike entering into The BORG on Star trek.

Looking back now, it was like an implant.

 

[Div6]

<snip>
Looking back now, it was like an implant.

Uh, it WAS an implant.

Implanting never works they way they want it to...

Coz there is this funny little thing with thetans called "self-determinism"...

 

[Alanzo]

Yes Paul, there is more to this letter which continues to shock along this line. A real life example and explanation was given as a follow up to the last paragraph. Apparently my hypothetical question was almost dead on, however in real life, worse. Parents lost a child over this. A family was shattered. (They were being "anti-social")

I'll probably just leave it at that, as she is (was) a friend (wow, this opens a whole new conversation with myself about her and others like her) and would *probably* object (go ape shit) if she knew I was sharing her letter with the whole world.

Later in the letter I was being sec checked. (Surely I had crimes!) Actually, I do have some O/W's that go way back and I'll thank her later (telepathically) when I clean all that up on my own. If I was looking for some clarity though, this letter really helped. I must openly admit that I used to *almost* think this way for about 10 minutes after I completed the PTS SP course. I had an epiphany one day when I looked at what it would take for me to be "qualled" for upper services, in terms of my viewpoint, and I literally saw myself entering into a collective frame of thinking not unlike entering into The BORG on Star trek.

Looking back now, it was like an implant.

I realized the other day that the purpose of the OT eligibility process is to cement loyalty to the cult ONLY.

Those who show some kind of other-loyalty to themselves, their families, their co-workers, etc. that conflicts or distracts in any way with loyalty to CofS are discarded and not invited until they relinquish those loyalties and become loyal to the cult ONLY.

The Pre-OT has their attention on getting the OT Level. But the real process is being run on them during the eligibility procedure. With their attention on the OT Level they want and are reaching for, Ron is installing what he really wants installed in the Scientologist.

It's a prestidigitation technique vital to the installation of positive suggestions, false identities and "implants" (as Hubbard called them).