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A Coup Against Miscavige if Tommy Tells the Truth?

Discussion in 'David Miscavige and Current Management' started by Poison Ivy, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    Hello ESMB peeps. I'm a never-in who has lurked here for a while; a reader and commenter over at VV/The Bunker for much longer.

    I wanted to post a question that has me intrigued:

    Could Tommy Davis' testimony in the Mosey case - if it is truthful - trigger the dismantling of the entire Miscavige regime?

    My thinking on this began by re-reading this post at Mike Rinder's:

    Over on the Bunker, we were taking bets as to whether or not Tommy would tell the truth, or perjure himself under oath yet again.

    Some argue that Tommy has no choice but to lie, since telling the truth would probably force his mother (and in-laws) to disconnect from him.

    This, however, assumes that Miscavige is still all-powerful in that world and has the unquestioning support of all Scientologists still in.

    But does he?

    This is something only those still connected with active Scientologists can answer.

    It seems to me that the seeds of discontent first stirred by Debbie Cook with her New Year's Eve email have flourished into a really colorful garden. And from comments made by certain exes who have their ears to the ground, I've gleaned that there are a lot of members - both among staff/Sea Org and prominent Public - who are quietly very unhappy with His Royal Insanity. No one has really rocked the boat so far.

    But can the Whales and Celeb public really look the other way after the canceling of Maiden Voyage, the Sooper Powerz opening, the IAS anniversary and the GATII release? After Leah's public departure? It is becoming abundantly clear that the wheels have really come off the Miscavige Machine. He is now an embarrassment to those still in the cult - and those people are basically paying for his extravagant lifestyle.

    Could some of these high-powered public (including, perhaps, Anne Archer and Terry Jastrow?) quietly encourage Tommy to tell the truth under oath this time? Thus dragging COB into the case...and perhaps providing a means to oust him from his position?

    Does anyone on this board know of any whispers to that effect?

    Thanks for your input. :coolwink:
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  2. Techless

    Techless Patron Meritorious

    While I was in, I cannot claim any expertise on the current scenario, buy I do very much believe that:

    What is going on now is very different from what has been. There's tons of historical info and such, but 'today' is really different due to mostly the fact that so much more (information) is out there and on public channels, and that the 'usual tactics' as we all know and love, cannot work anymore. Too many are weary of it, and now too many who held high places are going to be in their face.

    I've never seen any 'policy' on "What to do when all else FAILS" - has anyone? I mean: hasn't everything always worked as expected in the past? Yeah - but things are different now.

    It can be great fun to place bets, speculate on how things will go, but I think the naked emperor is going to be playing a harder ball than what has worked in the past - and it may not be the predictable and amusing foot-bullets that we're used to. But I do really hope we get some for posterity's sake!! and sell popcorn

    It IS getting close to the end - so I'm thinking that it's either going to be:

    1 - vastly greater sums of money being paid to silence, OR
    2- such a long drawn out use/abuse of a F-ed up legal system to begin that everyone will be totally bored somewhere along the trail. It just fizzles.

    Whatever Tommy does, is going to upset someone in a big way I'm sure. But after his little 'errors' from the past, I'm guessing that he won't be doing that again (after very strict coaching and desire to keep living!)

    I am hoping that I am wrong, but I don't see things going like a great Spielberg movie we hope for, unfortunately these days, the spectacles have become redundant with CNN, FoxNews or Olds, and whatever media construct you have.

    I'm just having a very hard time these days, in trying to get my mind around "that amount of money" and that it buys things beyond the imagination. Anyone with it tends to get away with anything.

    I mean: weren't there some really rich folks a few years back who were considered the absolute cause of obliteration of life on planet earth with their owning and control of all money? Why aren't we hearing of them anymore...(until next huge $$ crisis)

    Tommy is going to tell whatever suits him best, and try and get away with whatever it can do, and whether it'll be the truth or not.

    I'm totally excited to see this play - but all these bogus time delays make it dreary.
  3. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    Again, not being a Scientologist but having read a hell of a lot (and also about other cults), I doubt "What To Do When All Else Fails" was ever even considered a Hubbard policy. It seems he was increasingly reactive toward the end of his life, coming up with new policies and changes to serve his circumstances. Because he is Source and his work can't be changed, that doesn't really leave COB much room to come up with sweeping new "Life boat" policies. He can only make the old ones more draconian in scope.

    Other cults - apolcalyptic cults - have had those "Doomsday" policies built in. Often, with drastic and tragic results.

    The question is, will those vast sums of money be enough to buy everyone off? AND - when do the Whales providing the flow of that money get fed up enough so that they want to stop the bleeding at its source - which is Miscavige.

    Too sad and too true. But hey, they got Bernie Madoff. Remember, COB's money isn't really his, is it? It belongs to "The Church." Who does "The Church" belong to?

    I would think there would be some Whales, Celebs, and dedicated public out there who would be ready to take back their church about now.

    Or who knows, maybe they will all simply leave, go Indie, and watch COB's rotten organization continue to decompose from within.

    Word. :coolwink:
  4. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    It would be hard to tell the truth. Even after leaving the cult it took me a long time to realize and admit what I had been participating in. It's not a simple matter of telling the truth. The whole time I was lying for the cult I thought I was telling the truth. That's how twisted it is. Unless he has made that decision to walk away from his immortality, he'll lie his ass off.

    IN MY OPINION of course. :yes:
  5. Techless

    Techless Patron Meritorious

    I totally agree!

    I do think there's going to be some sort of 'coup' but I'm just not of the feeling that it's gonna play out to the amusement of all those waiting for the show to start - and have paid to see.

    But interesting too all the ongoing (never-ending) debates of Hubbub saying "nothing can be changed" yet all the hoohaa about it's eternal alterations having taken place.

    Well: he was the one that built change into it from the start. He always changed 'it'. (used in quotes cause I think the whole 'tech' issue is bullsh*t).

    It never was a 'tech', if only to enhance the con, but apparently there are some that think that there was an actual tech!!

    Then again, there are always those that think things in the past and that can't be completely 'gotten' -are somehow sacred and so very ancient...bla, bla...

    As everyone who believes keep saying that the 'alterations' were begun upon midgeys entrance - that's total bs!!!! it had been changing every time hubby needed to sell it harder - and that's all.

    When I was in, the 'tech' was delivered from a collection of policy's, tech bulletins, (i.e. crappola) that changed contents every time there needed to be a change from hi highness.

    The folks who are now still trying to make this point of 'later' alterations just do not seem to have been alive or aware that tech always changed. It was main reason why I never totally bought into or became subservient slave to.

    I just wish, hope, pray, that the current line of good folks trying to preserve it, eventually realize (soon) that they're are preserving nothing OTHER than something that was always designed to be changed, at will, to keep the money stream coming.

    I've just not seen or heard anyone that can negate this idea - no one's privy to some secret that anyone else hasn't already figured out is the scam...

    That's the basic on that!
  6. Techless

    Techless Patron Meritorious

    Absolutely totally true GT! Things are fuzzy under the guise of a 'truth' that is only a money scam. And I really have no idea about how anyone so thoroughly entrance and obedient to 'the cause' can do much other than say what they think, whether it's close to a delusional truth, or some other implanted brainwash yap.

    It really sadder than sad -
  7. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    I admire your honesty now, Good Twin. :clap:

    If this is true for Tommy, it's very sad. I'm just wondering when those who were so abused by Miscavige - even if they're still "believers" - will see that lying to protect Miscavige has nothing to do with their "religion."
  8. woger1

    woger1 New Member

    Can't bet, but if I did, he will perjure him self again... As they say (whats true for you)
    Disconnection is a CO$ policy not just Miscavige. I can only hope he TELLS THE TRUTH!
    Unfortunately we don't know the questions the lawyers will ask.
  9. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I'm inclined to think Tommy has no love for DM. He spread the news that
    his wife Jessica was dying of cancer. This per Mark Headly didn't go down very well for Tommy. This was a face saving action for DM in that he didn't want it seen that someone no longer wanted to work for him. Per the form this probably meant a lot of abuse from DM.

    Now it seems that Tommy did inform someone in CO$ that he was subpoened.
    Perhaps DM himself. So possibly some sort of loyalty shown, or a plea to help quash
    the deposition as It would almost certainly reveal Tommy's past perjury.

    But now going into deposition, I imagine he will take a path least damaging to himself,
    and that would be telling the truth. Basicly that DM micro manages everything.

    That puts DM on the stand. With initially a potential charge of perjury for lying about
    "no business in Texas". And with Mike & Marty and others to supply data to the lawyers
    who knows what else he'll have to answer about. For example the destruction of data re the Lisa McPherson case which Marty has already admitted. Then how about the pressure to get the coroner to change the cause of death. Then their is fraud re the IRS

    I don't think well with legal matters or know much in this area so hopefully someone who understands them better will comment.
  10. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    So true. From the very start - from Dianetics - Hubbard changed the rules of the game every time he needed to plug a hole in credibility of the con that might give it away too soon.

    I always get a little nauseous when I hear the term "tech." IMHO that was another of Hubbard's ruses to make Scientology seem "scientific"...along with using terms like "data" and "comm lines" and "outpoint" etc. etc. Even the word "Scientology" itself. This is the era of the space race, the atomic bomb, the Jetsons. Things that were scientific were to be believed without question.

    Nice to hear from someone who was inside once that they know there's no "tech" at all - it's the wizard behind the curtain.

    To me, if people got something positive from the whole multi-layered scam, then good for them. But there's nothing scientific about it, and there never was. And Hubbard knew it.
  11. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    I doubt Ray Jeffrey will veer from his focus which is the deliberate and coordinated harassment of Monique, never even a Scientologist.

    A good attorney doesn't get distracted from his/her goal.

    But I do think if Tommy gives up the truth - that he was answering to DM's orders when he was sent to Texas after John Brousseau (a mission that including a Special Ops unit going to harass Marty) - then DM is toast.

    As well he should be.

    I'm just wondering if the bigger fish still in the church will see this as an excuse to push him out. He's become a liability and an embarrassment. Sort of like the last Pope was kinda-sorta forced out.
  12. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Mike Rinder finally caught on, right?

    I think a lot of the people that are close and directly around Miscavige see it much more than those who are not near him. I was not much around him while I was in the Sea Org so his actions specifically did not affect me... I did not see what others saw because I was mostly at CCInt and Flag.

    I don't think Tommy Davis was around COB long enough for it to affect him to the point of realizing what kind of aggressive mind control and entrapment he is capable of. I don't think he would walk away.

    But who knows, he may stay up one night reading up on the internet.... and that can change a lot! :)
  13. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Who is left?

    Really. I am curious.

    Who is there to take over?

    From my understanding, they are all in the hole. And those in the hole have no idea about any of this going on.

    Nor do any other SO members. They do not watch TV, no news, nothing. Zero media.

    So who then? Everyone else is SP declared. Or out. Or posting here!
  14. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    We've discussed this many times.

    However, I cannot imagine who would initiate a coup. It's my impression that other SO types who were even minimally competent with a smidgeon of personal ambition (necessary for leaders of a palace revolt) are long gone -- fled, purged, or mentally tortured into oblivion.

    I cannot imagine who would "take over" from DM and become COB, Pope or Grand Poobah. There was a time when some thought Diana Hubbard might have been interested in taking over. But I hear she's a burned-out husk of the feisty young woman she once was.

    And no public Scientologists have sufficient interest or ambition to run the joint. Not even the whales. So they're out.

    Which leaves lawyers, trustees, amateur Scientologists.

    And, of course DM. He has internal crtics, but no real competition.

    Someone here posted quite wisely that if DM were to leave his Pope post that he would no longer have access to "free" legal counsel to defend him in litigation. And if modern patterns should be projected, he can expect to spend the rest of his life being sued.

    And after he's been sued and sued and sued, he may become the target of even more aggressive efforts to right past wrongs. Tsk tsk.

    So I think he'll stick around for as long as he possibly can. I think being Pope of Scientology under any conditions is preferrable to any other situation he could create for himself in any country in the world.
  15. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Not only is $cientology about the money, it's about Control, psychological manipulation done in a manner where a $cio actually believes they did get/have gotten something good out of it, and the most sinister part is you pay for your own indoctrination (in more ways than one). Yes, the so called tek (mind control) was adjusted by elcon repeatedly, later by dm to have the broadest cookie cutter appeal for income and milieu control with loaded language and deft mental pressures individually and collectively, much like a torturer experimenting with the pressure applied to someone on the Rack. $cientology is a subversion of self, in losing yourself lies are the cult staple elcon devised for a banquet of crushed glass for all to feast upon.
  16. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    That would be ironic.

    Her own father, LRH, put her on the list of those Never to be Posted as an Executive.
  17. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't think Tommy has had the time to decompress from the mountain of bullshit he's spewed on major media (giving us endless hours of delight) for years. I could be wrong, real wrong though.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  18. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    But according to Mike Rinder and others, Tommy admitted that Tom Cruise beat him up (on DM's orders?). He was verbally abused by COB constantly, as evidenced by John Sweeney during the whole Panorama fiasco (recovered text messages that prove horrendous verbal abuse of Tommy and others assigned to "handle" Sweeney.) I think he also got slammed after the first time he blew, with months of sec checking from hell (during which time he found true love, so it couldn't have been that horrific, I guess...)

    I hope he does venture on to the Internetz...what a world of possibility awaits him here! :eyeroll:
  19. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    I see what you did there! :clap:
  20. Poison Ivy

    Poison Ivy Patron

    My understanding also...but perhaps there are those on the outside who wish to stop flushing their money down the endless black hole of COB's ass?