A Coup Against Miscavige if Tommy Tells the Truth?

Poison Ivy

Patron
Better not be a Jonestown. My mom is still in the Sea Org. :nervous:

Scientology isn't an Apocalyptic cult. It doesn't make sense that Davey would see annihilation as an end game. I think he's too much of a narcissistic sociopath to want to kill himself if the jig is up. I can see him "defending the compound" - but I don't see him taking out his own minions.

However, given his fits of uncontrolled rage and anger, I do see people getting hurt now that we're in the "end times." People were getting hurt in the relatively good times. I fear for those closest to him. Especially Lou.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, Bea. I didn't feel picked on. I'm a never-in but I've had my own share of horrendous real life experiences that make me pretty empathetic to y'all.

This is just a question I really felt best for the real exes to ponder, not the critics. It's just amazing to me that DM gets to continue his unopposed rule...given that he's running the entire Scientology "brand" as well as its finances into the ground. In a corporation, he'd long ago have been ousted by the board.

Of course, that's why it's convenient to be "Chairman of the Board" when you are the ONLY one on the board!

Every time stuff when nuts in the cult, it seemed like there was an amnesty, or a naming of an SP, and it all started over again. No idea 'who' would take over, but from casual chats with people, there are still very die-hard believers. If Davey does go down, I think he will be named as the "why" for the problems and the machine will grind on a bit longer. Undoing mind-control isn't an overnight action and it seemed that the a-holes were the ones that rose more easily in power--until the a-hole above their post felt threatened.

Scientology just is nothing like real life. Abuse and insanity really does become your 'norm'. And, there are still people who think their eternity rests on whether or not the movement succeeds--a beating or shelling out tons of money doesn't compare to the hell they've come to believe they will inherit if they don't make it to full OT.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
This made me laugh. Can you see some puffed up --- staff member, sea org, public --- with an overwhelming sense of "knowing" that he/she is, indeed, LRH reincarnated and bursting at the seams with a sense of duty to take the reins? Well, gee whiz, little Davey didn't even finish high school and was practically a kid when he took over and just look at the megalomaniac! It could happen again. Perhaps some would leave but many scios would fall for it hook, line and sinker, all over again!

Although many scios are likely getting 'uncomfortable' they are still in or out when push comes to shove - meaning when they are threatened with being cut off from friends and family. That is the moment of truth for many and many Scios will do just about anything not to be alienated if they have yet to fully realize for themselves the scam that is scientology. If they are still hanging onto hope for their eternity they will stay in. And if such a bloated and convincing person plays hero, this will be just what they need to keep on believing.

I do hope that scn. just crumbles to the ground and people realize they are, indeed, finally free! But the money...who gets the money?? Maybe it could get divvied up among all the scientologists who are yet un-refunded, in proportion to what they paid in / or time served. But slim to no chance for that, I think.

Oh, and the NEW LRH will have been verified in session. It will be a very hush, hush thing but with rumors flying (as is usual :eyeroll:) and then there will be a big event for the announcement!

We had at least 3 pc s on-lines when I was in that were convinced they were Ron. I got some briefing at some point that it wasn't possible, because Ron had been in comm with execs and it was confirmed he'd gone on to Target 2. and yet, I still get some people who try to convince me that what I was part of wasn't a cult.:eyeroll:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
We had at least 3 pc s on-lines when I was in that were convinced they were Ron. I got some briefing at some point that it wasn't possible, because Ron had been in comm with execs and it was confirmed he'd gone on to Target 2. and yet, I still get some people who try to convince me that what I was part of wasn't a cult.:eyeroll:

Which is the real reason you are told in the $cientology scam, not to 'talk about your case'... it would not be good to have 3 or 4 Napoleons, a Julius Ceasar and a Hitler or two at each event trying to continually upstage each other.......though it would be quite natural to see this at a home for the criminally insane..
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Which is the real reason you are told in the $cientology scam, not to 'talk about your case'... it would not be good to have 3 or 4 Napoleons, a Julius Ceasar and a Hitler or two at each event trying to continually upstage each other.......though it would be quite natural to see this at a home for the criminally insane..

Or Jesuses. I had an auditor friend tell me that Jesuses were very common.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Or Jesuses. I had an auditor friend tell me that Jesuses were very common.

Oh yeah... being Jesus was a huge one. That was explained away by it being an implant, and there was a Book 1 auditor that used some technique or other where they had the pc back up from the planet or something in the incident run, until they cogged it was an implant (something like that).

It wasn't until I seriously started reading folders that I realized how many people thought they were someone famous. Stuff like that didn't really come up for me. There was one time that I did run something where I was some incredibly powerful dude, and it was odd to me, because the person doing the action on me had remembered me from that time period. I think that some sort of mind-reading or other unexplained thing took place--he hadn't coached me at all, and I suddenly looked up at him and went OMFG!!! You were (so-and-so), and (somebody else we knew) was XYZ!!!! and, he just sort of laughed and nodded, and gave me a 'whole-track' sort of salute.

Recalling mundane lifetimes is one reason I thought auditing was valid--the one time I did come up with a persona that was famous on earth? I got really pissed at my auditor and didn't want to run the recall, because I was sure it had to be dub-in. It kept fucking reading, and wouldn't clean up on protest, so I just fucking gave him the info, but wasn't happy about it-- think that's when I started questioning the validity of stuff recalled in session.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
We had at least 3 pc s on-lines when I was in that were convinced they were Ron. <snip....>
Which is the real reason you are told in the $cientology scam, not to 'talk about your case'... it would not be good to have 3 or 4 Napoleons, a Julius Ceasar and a Hitler or two at each event trying to continually upstage each other.......though it would be quite natural to see this at a home for the criminally insane..

Or Jesuses. I had an auditor friend tell me that Jesuses were very common.
Hubbard's BT theory has this loophole fully covered. Just sayin'.
 
I never ever ran out being Jesus, as in the Christ. Unless he had a leaf blower. Then - Oh what am I saying. I'll confess. I was the wholly ghost. But I never felt complete in that life either.

Mimsey
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Lol. The Flag Course Supe on GAT Solo NOTs Certainty Course was named Jesus. He was a lovely guy. When I did my Graduation Speech I mentioned that I arrived on SNCC and "the first person I met was Jesus so knew I was in the right place". Only the Aussies laughed! :biggrin:
 

Sindy

Crusader
why in Gods name do you think for one moment he is going to tell the truth? Mimsey

Maybe because he's tired of lying?

Maybe because he secretly hates Miscavige (who doesn't)?

Maybe with Leah leaving (as well as all the other failed salvage operations he's been part of) he sees the writing on the wall?

Maybe because under oath he can get away with it?

Maybe because he's already blown before because he couldn't handle the craziness?

Maybe he's not a psychotic masochist?

Maybe....and maybe not.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Even if there was some way to kick DM off the throne, there wouldn't be an "outsider" taking over.

It doesn't work that way.

For an outsider, it makes more sense to think of Scientology, not as a corporation, but as a criminal gang.

Do you thing the Crips would accept a court-appointed new leader?

Corporate structure means NOTHING. The law means NOTHING. Scientologists who are "in" will follow whoever is in sufficient control of the Sea Org hierarchy that he appears to be the legitimate guy in charge. They will care NOTHING about what some court proclaims.
 

Good twin

Floater
How many Simon Bolivars did you meet while you were in? I met 3. They each discovered the identity on L10. :eyeroll:

Of course L11 is also known as the new wife rundown. It's where Simon meets Manuela and leaves his db wife. :duh:

THIS was our truth. A Scientologist is incapable of even comprehending the truth.

What did Pooks say? Lying liars lie.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Is rebellion even possible?

I have a question to do with this thread. Has there ever been, in the history of scn, a successful coup? Has an Org's ED been removed by popular demand? Has democracy (group agreement) every worked in scn? The only coup I am aware of is DMs, and that had no popular backing. I'm sure that many successful execs must have pushed others out of the nest, like a baby cookoo, with a little KR writing and shit stirring. There was a general public big feeling in the early 80s of disgruntledness due to price rises, that lead to a popular uprising of people moving to independence, any attempt at internal church complaint would have been pointless. However if everyone in an international event just said Dave out! at the same time surely no amount of threat of golden rod would work. Wasn't there some rebellion at the Mission Holder's conference?

The trouble is that, as said earlier, most clams are happy to be abused as long as they will be allowed to do their next step to total freedom.
 

Out-Ethics

Patron Meritorious
Is rebellion even possible?

I have a question to do with this thread. Has there ever been, in the history of scn, a successful coup? Has an Org's ED been removed by popular demand? Has democracy (group agreement) every worked in scn? The only coup I am aware of is DMs, and that had no popular backing. I'm sure that many successful execs must have pushed others out of the nest, like a baby cookoo, with a little KR writing and shit stirring. There was a general public big feeling in the early 80s of disgruntledness due to price rises, that lead to a popular uprising of people moving to independence, any attempt at internal church complaint would have been pointless. However if everyone in an international event just said Dave out! at the same time surely no amount of threat of golden rod would work. Wasn't there some rebellion at the Mission Holder's conference?

The trouble is that, as said earlier, most clams are happy to be abused as long as they will be allowed to do their next step to total freedom.

The problem with a rebellion is where does it come from? I seriously cannot see this in the SO especially at Int. The biggest obstacle is we are dealing with a mind-control cult. Sec-checks, KRs, Ethics, Justice all these actions are difficult to overcome. If one is in the SO any doubt about the tech, Hubbard, Scientology or DM has to be blocked. In a Class IV org it is easier but staff and public are trained from early on to report any considered out-ethics situation. If a SO member has become disillusioned they are separated from the group (RPF) and beaten so badly mostly mental that if they are lucky they get to route out. The rebellion is on the outside such as Marty, Mike, The Underground Bunker, ESMB, Anonymous, media etc. One person or a single group might not do much damage but the attacks on DM and Scientology are coming from all sides and this is bring DM to his knees. I would more expect Cl IV orgs and missions to separate from the mother church. And as for any public still in the truth is out there for them to look at.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Wasn't there some rebellion at the Mission Holder's conference?

And we all know the reaction to THAT. Declares all around, sec-checking for "disaffection", etc, etc.

Bottom line: anybody aware enough to want to rebel against DM, is likely aware enough that they LEAVE Scn entirely.
 

Poison Ivy

Patron
For an outsider, it makes more sense to think of Scientology, not as a corporation, but as a criminal gang.

Do you thing the Crips would accept a court-appointed new leader?

Corporate structure means NOTHING. The law means NOTHING. Scientologists who are "in" will follow whoever is in sufficient control of the Sea Org hierarchy that he appears to be the legitimate guy in charge. They will care NOTHING about what some court proclaims.

You have misunderstood me. Just to clarify - when I wrote "outsider", I wasn't referring to anyone appointed by a court. That just wouldn't happen here in America - that sees Scientology not as a corporation but as a religion. The courts have no power to interfere with religions or how they are run, except to sanction them on civil or criminal matters, which as we've all seen, they WAY too rarely do.

When I said "outsiders" I mean Clams outside Sea Org or staff. I meant some powerful Whales who might want to take their "religion" back - if only to save face and their money. My point is, David appears to be seriously tarnishing the Scientology "brand", and if it were my own money, I'd want that to stop. (Nothwithstanding what others have rightly pointed out here, that LRH built that 'brand tarnshing' into the system.)

It seems from what you all are saying, however, that any new leadership would have to arise from within the Sea Org, and that doesn't look possible, given the fact that all the real "talent" has blown. Or is in the Hole, probably shadows of their former selves.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Could be a Captain (yes, that is what they call them... as if they are on a ship) of any of the Service orgs. At least they would have a clue what things are slightly like in the real world.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
You have misunderstood me. Just to clarify - when I wrote "outsider", I wasn't referring to anyone appointed by a court. That just wouldn't happen here in America - that sees Scientology not as a corporation but as a religion. The courts have no power to interfere with religions or how they are run, except to sanction them on civil or criminal matters, which as we've all seen, they WAY too rarely do.

When I said "outsiders" I mean Clams outside Sea Org or staff. I meant some powerful Whales who might want to take their "religion" back - if only to save face and their money. My point is, David appears to be seriously tarnishing the Scientology "brand", and if it were my own money, I'd want that to stop. (Nothwithstanding what others have rightly pointed out here, that LRH built that 'brand tarnshing' into the system.)

It seems from what you all are saying, however, that any new leadership would have to arise from within the Sea Org, and that doesn't look possible, given the fact that all the real "talent" has blown. Or is in the Hole, probably shadows of their former selves.

I think you might be right about the whales. They have money even if they don't have the balls to heckle at a conference. They could certainly set the legal dogs yapping at Dave. We need to hope there is a prince of whales.
 
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