A form of false advertisement?

[Atcause]

I have nothing against people auditing others in the church or leaving the church and auditing people, there's is something I'm seeing that Independent/freezone auditors are doing that I don't feel is ethical on their part.

The thing is this. The auditor class system in Roman numerals ( class V, VI, VIII, IX, XII ect ) was an creation of LRH the church of scientology and is *their* thing. What I see that is not right, is auditors achieving a auditing class while in the church ( let's say VIII ), leaving the church and then years later are still calling themselves class VIII or class IX auditors. You can't leave the church for 15 years and still keep calling yourself a class VIII auditor because to do so requires the organization who gives those type of classifications to auditors to still agree that you are a class VIII auditor.

Part of qualifying as class VIII auditor ( which is a designation that belongs to the church of scientology ) you have to be in good standing with the organization that issues that classification. The proper thing for them to say is that they *were* a class VIII auditor or that they were trained to the level of class VIII auditor when they left the church in 1980. ( or 1985, 1990 or whatever the year was they left the church. )

It's like getting a medical license, breaking from the medical society that issues such licenses but still advertising that you are an "MD" in order make the same money.

What I'm saying is that an auditor in the freezone that advertises that they are a class IX auditor but left the church of scientology 20 years earlier isn't a class IX auditor because part of being a class IX auditor is that you have to be on *proper terms* with the organization that owns and issues such auditor classifications.

 

[Type4_PTS]

The auditor class system in Roman numerals ( class V, VI, VIII, IX, XII ect ) was an creation of LRH the church of scientology and is *their* thing. What I see that is not right, is auditors achieving a auditing class while in the church

If I were shopping for a prospective auditor I would like to know as much as possible about the training/credentials that the auditor achieved as well as where, what year, etc., including the level that they trained up until. Same as if I were shopping for a psychologist, a piano teacher, etc. And I would like to know what kind of results that individual gets.

As far as the classification system is concerned it doesn't bother me if the auditor were to describe himself as a Class VI or whatever auditor, as long as I know the particulars of when the training was done. The fact that the classification system is a creation of LRH and CoS doesn't seem as though it would be relevant to a freezoner (which I am NOT) because all of Scientology is a creation of LRH and CoS, not just the classification system. Who cares whether CoS agrees or not about what Class an auditor is? (other than CoS) That's my 2 cents.

 

[Atcause]

If I were shopping for a prospective auditor I would like to know as much as possible about the training/credentials that the auditor achieved as well as where, what year, etc., including the level that they trained up until. Same as if I were shopping for a psychologist, a piano teacher, etc. And I would like to know what kind of results that individual gets.

As far as the classification system is concerned it doesn't bother me if the auditor were to describe himself as a Class VI or whatever auditor, as long as I know the particulars of when the training was done. The fact that the classification system is a creation of LRH and CoS doesn't seem as though it would be relevant to a freezoner (which I am NOT) because all of Scientology is a creation of LRH and CoS, not just the classification system. Who cares whether CoS agrees or not about what Class an auditor is? (other than CoS) That's my 2 cents.

I see what you are saying.

It would be good to know what level of training they did reach while in the church. I guess an important factor would be how long ago they reached it.

I don't have a problem with saying "I was trained to class IX in 1970". The problem I have is with the "I am a class IX auditor" they are saying with their resume in present time as if they have been certified as such recently when it may have been 30 years ago.

I believe when you leave the church you leave behind you all the labels and titles that go with it and that includes auditor class titles.

For example instead of saying: "John Doe, trained to class IX auditing in 1970".

They say: "John Doe, class IX auditor" when they advertise their services.

 

[Type4_PTS]

The problem I have is with the "I am a class IX auditor" they are saying with their resume in present time as if they have been certified as such recently when it may have been 30 years ago.

I would have a problem with it as well if the person intentionally attempted to mislead about his ability as an auditor.

I think that the responsibility lies on the consumer though to find out what he can about any product or service he's buying.

Even with a medical doctor, he can have an MD degree on his wall but if he received it 30 years ago and hasn't kept up with the new info coming out in the areas of medicine he practices then he may not deliver cutting edge treatments.

 

[freethinker]

Does ability come from classification or training?

If I build something can I do it because I have a license or is it my knowledge and skills?

I have nothing against people auditing others in the church or leaving the church and auditing people, there's is something I'm seeing that Independent/freezone auditors are doing that I don't feel is ethical in their part.

The thing is this. The auditor class system in Roman numerals ( class V, VI, VIII, IX, XII ect ) was an creation of LRH the church of scientology and is *their* thing. What I see that is not right, is auditors achieving a auditing class while in the church ( let's say VIII ), leaving the church and then years later are still calling themselves class VIII or class IX auditors. You can't leave the church for 15 years and still keep calling yourself a class VIII auditor because to do so requires the organization who gives those type of classifications to auditors to still agree that you are a class VIII auditor .

Part of qualifying as class VIII auditor ( which is a destination that belongs to the church of scientology ) you have to be in good standing with the organization that issues that classification. The proper thing for them to say is that they *were* a class VIII auditor.

It's like getting a medical license, breaking from the medical society that issues such licenses but still advertising that you are an "MD" in order make the same money.

What I'm saying is that an auditor in the freezone that advertises that they are a class IX auditor but left the church of scientology 20 years earlier isn't a class IX auditor because part of being a class IX auditor is that you have to be on *proper terms* with the organization that owns and issues such auditor classifications.

 

[degraded being]

Dear reader,
We all need a little guidance and someone to "lend an ear" at times.
Many of us turn to counselling of various kinds.
Are you considering counselling?
It is wise to spend a little time to choose that special counsellor who is just right for you.

Why not choose a minister of religion
Whether you would prefer someone in the church of out of the church
there is a lot to go through.....
Happy hunting!

What class is my potential auditor?
When was he certified (pun intended).
How many times was he forced to retrain right up from the bottom?
How many of his supervisors were delared for squirelling or committing high crimes?
How many of his examiners have been declared?
How many other execs involved in his attainment of levels have been declared for stat pushing, false reports, false products?
How many times was the pure lrh tech that he has trained on been rewritten, or changed by LRH or DM? At which point can I find the best version of a class_ _ _auditor
Was he trained before of after that floating needle reading mess?
Was he trained before or after that TRs review, redo mess, or the one after that or....
How many times was he RPFed? RFR's RFFed? and how much damage did this do to him?
Was he never RPFed? If not, what might this mean in terms of how he was in goodstanding with the real nasty execs who RPF all good people?
Given his class level and years of experience, how many violations of parishioner confessionals has he assisted in or witnessed and turned a blind eye?
How will his case level affect the grades on which he is auditing me...is he clear? which version, Clear / Past Life / Natural / Theta Clear / Rehabbed - how many times?
OT? Did he really do that OT 2 and 3 stuff and is just pretending like he is not in a brainwashing cult? Is he mentally healthy?
Does he like, audit BTs a few hours a day and go to Flag every six months for psychological abuse? Is he mentally healthy?
Has he been forced to disconnect from his family and carries on with a billion year contract to the perpetrators? Is he mentally healthy?
Does he hang out with ex osa people who have done terrible, terrible things to people for scientology and are now running their independent scientology racket outside the COS?
Has he dealt with the effects of being in a cult?

There is a lot to consider when choosing your auditor....

 

[Infinite]

I get what you're saying and, yes, you're right. Operating outside the requirements of the organisation which issues the qualifications is an indicator to AVOID. The fact that the organisation is Scientology is an even bigger indicator.

Where the false advertising aspect most applies in this case, however, is in the promotion of the idea that auditing is anything other than a religious ceremony.

 

[LongTimeGone]

From all accounts, the earlier trained Auditors have a greater right to be called Class whatever auditors than the recent ones who have been trained by the midget's squirreled organisation.

I was trained to Class VI and I reckon I could easily pick up from where I left off 19 years ago, not that I'd ever want to.

I realise that this is a freezone thread so I will refrain from adding "... and this is not to say that any of them are of any use to mankind."

LTG

 

[Atcause]

There is a lot to consider when choosing your auditor....

You're right, there's a lot to consider in choosing an auditor, especially the way things are today. It's just a big ole mess, if you ask me.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Hmm.. Why not write up a 'CSW' suggesting that all past declares be updated administratively with: 'Comitting the heineous High Crime of stealing Scientology's Roman Numerals.'

After all, these criminal basterds can only get away with stuff like this because in this day and age stripping them naked and throwing them in molten lava pits while hurray'ing L.Ron Hubbard is frowned upon!

 

[Panda Termint]

It gladdens my heart to see you responding in such an appropriate manner, Schwimmey!
The only people who give a shit about CofS' Certification Rules and Regulations are CofS scientologists.

 

[Kookaburra]

It is only CoS that insists that an auditor must be in good standing with them for his certs to be valid. Almost every auditor worth his salt left CoS over the GAT fiasco.

Then DM cancelled Class VIII because it's product was standard tech auditors. Last thing in the world that DM would want. But it is exactly what a PC would want.

If I were looking for an auditor, the first thing I would look for is someone trained prior to GAT and someone who is NOT currently in CoS as anyone still in there has compromised themselves, their integrity and their tech to a point where I wouldn't trust them with anything. Certainly not to audit me.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I realise that this is a freezone thread so I will refrain from adding "... and this is not to say that any of them are of any use to mankind."

 

[uniquemand]

It is only CoS that insists that an auditor must be in good standing with them for his certs to be valid. Almost every auditor worth his salt left CoS over the GAT fiasco.

Then DM cancelled Class VIII because it's product was standard tech auditors. Last thing in the world that DM would want. But it is exactly what a PC would want.

If I were looking for an auditor, the first thing I would look for is someone trained prior to GAT and someone who is NOT currently in CoS as anyone still in there has compromised themselves, their integrity and their tech to a point where I wouldn't trust them with anything. Certainly not to audit me.

Cancelled Class VIII, huh? Innerestin'.

 

[Terril park]

I would have a problem with it as well if the person intentionally attempted to mislead about his ability as an auditor.

I think that the responsibility lies on the consumer though to find out what he can about any product or service he's buying.

Even with a medical doctor, he can have an MD degree on his wall but if he received it 30 years ago and hasn't kept up with the new info coming out in the areas of medicine he practices then he may not deliver cutting edge treatments.

I'm afraid that works reversely in scn. Someone trained 40 years ago with bags of experience is to be preferred to someone who did training
via gat, by all accounts I've heard.

The success story thread here give's hundreds of success stories from a variety of auditors which may be helpful to decide on auditors.

Another point is to make sure that the auditor uses a C/S. If nothing else its a bit like having a second opinion from a medical doctor.

 

[Terril park]

Then DM cancelled Class VIII because it's product was standard tech auditors. Last thing in the world that DM would want. But it is exactly what a PC would want.

You have any URLs on this?

 

[Atcause]

It gladdens my heart to see you responding in such an appropriate manner, Schwimmey!
The only people who give a shit about CofS' Certification Rules and Regulations are CofS scientologists.

What I'm trying to say Panda, is that it's not ethical to advertise a certification when the organization that issued that certification has revoked that certification.

It's like a business advertising that they are a "proud member of the BBB" when you contact the BBB and they say that they *were* a member but are no longer.

That would be deception on the part of that business for the purpose of getting confidence from a buyers ( and more sales ) that they no longer deserve. They *were* a member of the BBB but they are still advertising like they are in present time.

 

[Terril park]

What I'm trying to say Panda, is that it's not ethical to advertise a certification when the organization that issued that certification has revoked that certification.

It's like a business advertising that they are a "proud member of the BBB" when you contact the BBB and they say that they *were* a member but are no longer.

That would be deception on the part of that business for the purpose of getting confidence from a buyers ( and more sales ) that they no longer deserve. They *were* a member of the BBB but they are still advertising like they are in present time.

I gather some of these certificates were irrevocable. Like class VIII.

 

[Panda Termint]

I understood what you were saying, Atcause.

The thing is that the certfication of Auditors is an iffy thing in many instances. That a person has, at some time, been certfied to audit the procedures of a certain Level in no way guarantees that the person is a good Auditor, even if his Certs are still valid. There are Certified Auditors in the CofS who can or can't audit, just as there are de-Certified Auditors outside of the CofS who can or can't audit.

I think a case could be made for fraudulent misrepresentation where a person was claiming ability when that person's Certs were cancelled because they couldn't audit but that is not the rationale of your OP. The validity of the revocation is probably just as questionable as the original certification.

Scientologists have an indoctrinated belief that a Class VIII is a "Standard Auditor", it is a comforting thing to them. Actual experience may well teach them otherwise.

These things only matter to scientologists, most normal people judge a therapist of any school by his/her demonstrated ability. Let the buyer beware.

 

[Atcause]

I gather some of these certificates were irrevocable. Like class VIII.

Well, that's news on me. Where did you get that data?

I assumed that if an auditor was declared, all of his or her certs would be gone.