What's new

A fresh look at what's wrong with Scn as subject

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I've chimed in and even started some threads here and there with discussions about what's wrong with the organization; been doing that a long time. I sometimes do criticize Hubbard and the subject, talk about the FZ (and not always in favor of...) And sometimes I discuss problems with the actual belief system.

But I really don't think I do that as often. And it's something that's personal. By "personal" I don't mean something that I wouldn't share, or that people shouldn't ask me about. It's not like my debit card number, my medical history, or whatever. I mean that it's something each person has their own take on, it's subjective. That doesn't make it incorrect- we just have our own way of looking at things and also there are things that matter more to person A than to person B. And so it goes.

This has been a bit more on my mind than usual, lately. And I would like to open up the thread by naming a couple flaws I see with the Scn philosophy that I think set people up for failure and problems.

One is that in Scn, you're told you're better than people who aren't into it. At first, it seems to be more about becoming better. Ok, I thought- I could really get into that idea. Self improvement. Spiritual growth. Yowza. Homo Novis- I thought, hey, why not?

But then it seemed like we were to believe we were already better than others. Hubbard talks about that in a lot of places. Scn'ists are just plain better. So here's how it kinda confused and upset me:

Every time I made a number of mistakes
Every time I didn't seem too competent
Every time I felt like my "buttons" were being pushed

I felt like a failure. This wasn't what I was supposed to be, given past auditing, courses, etc. I was like, ok, so if this is Clear/OT, then why are the descriptions the way they are?

What helped was seeing that others who'd had just simply oodles of auditing and training had either the same issues or were much worse off. It helped because I could then see that the problem was the promises made, that these states in reality (not the cert you get. I'm talking about really being there.) were either unobtainable in Scn or at the very least, were not obtained by those who had attested to them- which means the EPs of the processes either were unrealized or were, once obtained, EPs that did not confer the state of "Free of XYZ" or whatever the thing was.

But I saw people acting like they were better. Then they weren't better. And they weren't acting like, ok, I'm doing better, I'm a bit happier. No, they thought they were superior. They were told they were superior. But they weren't superior.

Also, I think a Buddhist might point out that if you want to be superior to others, that alone will hold you back. They'd have some pithy things to say about ego and all of that.

I have been thinking of this for a couple weeks then come to find out that a church member's kid (I won't name names) had to go to juvenile hall. So where's that superiority? It's a Scn family. If they were really anywhere near what they've been told they were, spiritually and mentally, nobody'd ever wind up in the criminal justice system.

I know this is obvious. And I did know it before but it seems to be resonating with me more in the past couple weeks.

God, I can remember attesting to Clear, then getting upset with someone at the office being a bit critical of me and wondering how the hell that computes? You know what I did then, right? Yeah. I followed in the footsteps of just about every Scn'ist before me. I cast about for an excuse.

Another problem with the subject is that it encourages you to be immersed in it. Again, nothing that you guys don't already know. But I was reading about Tom Cruise and his compound and how it's Scn 24/7. From what I hear from someone who used to work for him in the 90s, it wasn't like that in the beginning. Well, Cruise isn't the only one who immerses himself thus. (though few others can afford a freaking compound!). Scn'ists do that a lot. If they don't, they are called panty waist dilettantes. Even public do it. There are a million different stories about it. We all know.

The problem with it is that it's not healthy. It wouldn't be healthy even if there weren't all those abuses and problems, though there certainly are many of those. But my point here is it's not healthy to immerse oneself in a religion, or philosophy because, of course, other areas of life get either neglected or made to fit in with that worldview. I believe this causes a person to not see those other situations for what they are. I would say the same re an immersion in an elder religion, too. Though there're probably more problems with this one.

I admire the monks and anchorites who devote themselves to the divine. But even though they aren't Scn'ists, they probably also are riding for a fall because it's an unbalanced thing. But I think most of us would say it's worse when you do it with Scn.

This is probably why I got away from the label thing a couple years ago.

I guess here I'm not so much examining ideas as I am examining mindsets. I think examining ideas would be like, ok, let's look at the Tone scale, let's look at the communication formula, let's look at the C/S Series. Nothing wrong with that, either, of course.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some good points Claire. For me, it was "we are here to HELP you with your 1st and 2nd dynamic"! The more you are in in it...there is really no interest in anyone have a 1st or 2nd. It is 'GET ON THE 3RD AND GIVE US EVERYTHING OR ELSE'! The whole game is to get you into your ruin, be a 3rd party to conflict in your life so that you alienate everyone in your life - friends, family, spouses (anyone that is against Scientology does not want you to get better???? That is a LIE)!

The Tech is designed to get you in a state of total confusion so you make lots and lots of mistakes. You will feel terrible most of the time and then occasionally get keyed out with either auditing or some sentence Hubbard says in his billions of blabbing - and you think it is GREAT! But the key out state does not last but a moment. So - you reach for the Bridge and let the games begin...quickly the tech is designed to go for the jugular vein - your time and money! Humans are discard value only in the Co$! My God man - human beings on this planet will roller coaster by living on it - that is the truth. Scientology tech acts like that is WRONG and you must disconnect from someone or do some $$$$$$ auditing bullshit - it is really quite genius! The only time I roller coaster to the point of I have to lay down - is trying to talk common sense with a Kool-aid drinking staff member that you cannot reason with! Other than that - I am doing SO MUCH BETTER STAYING AWAY!! I am stable, I realize I have a reactive portion of my mind and I can control it. I am free from overwhelm and I know that I am total cause over matter energy space and time now that I am OUT of the church of scientology! Following another path helped me with all of that!

The simple truths in the beginning helped. Then it S-L-O-W-L-Y started to get WIERD:omg:! I remember studying the Science of Survival. This got me very introverted and NOT LIKING MYSELF OR OTHERS! I have since poked all sorts of holes in that book. It is not accurate - for example: TRUST is NOT a high toned characteristic! It is actually irresponsible!

TRUST after LOOKING and seeing EVERYTHING and holding accountable would be at the top of the tone scale. A clever little mechanism to DOMINATE it's victims!:nervous: I fell for it - but no longer! I remember feeling guilty because I asked very good questions like - where does the money go in the Co$. The staff member never did answer me and I felt that I was being "low toned" for asking! WTF???

The auditing was great in the beginning...but as soon as the questions turned one introverted - constantly causing one to look inside oneself to "see what I did wrong" is when it stopped working. NO - I did not have overts similar to the Cult of Scientology - I did not KILL someone, cause another to go bankrupt, lie in order to get money out of someone - deceive others to further my own means, disregard human suffering such as death, divorce and other parts of life that the Co$ will not allow a person to address so they can grieve and go through the process.:bigcry: The TECH simply STOPS people from feeling anything until they become robots working for nothing to do nothing in the name of spiritual freedom. The only thing free in Scientology is the LABOR given by force to the Co$ by the Staff and SO members and some public volunteers! There is nothing spiritual about it either!:no:

It is really quite a SCAM operation. Very little help for $$$$$$$$$$ of EPIC proportions whilst really making people worse! Scientology is doing the EXACT opposite of what it promises and IT DOES NOT EVEN KNOW IT! Now that is the truth and nothing but the truth. So HELP THEM GOD! Please - end the cycle for them...help them go away forever!:yes:
 
Last edited:

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...


The big lie is that all of the people in Scientology have the same stuff in their pc folders.

They are all human with human problems.

There isn't anyone who is different, better or spiritually advanced.

It's a myth.

When the registrar beams sheer confidence that the next action will handle it, they know their own case did not get handled by the next action.

When a grinning Clear gives his glowing success story to enthralled lower-level hopefuls, they know they are hoping that the OT levels will handle their own unhanded case.

When a transcendently splendiforous OT assures a Clear that "OT VII handles everything!" they know their own life and "case" has so many unhandled "sits".

When Hubbard or Miscavich or John McMasters or whomever is the latest-greatest superhuman gets up there on the stage, they know they are drinkers, drug users or just plain frauds. They bask in the admiration of the gullible, the naive and the delusional.

It's all just humans hoping and pretending.

None of them "made it" although they try awfully hard to "mock it up".

It's a joke.

The punchline? $500,000 and then you die.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is the Boiling Frog Concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

"The boiling frog story is generally told in a metaphorical context, with the upshot being that people should make themselves aware of gradual change lest they suffer eventual undesirable consequences."

I can just see standing up in front of a group of people and stating, authoritatively, "I am a boiled frog..."

And it struck me that the only letter missing from "OT" is you - "OUT"
 
Last edited:

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Great responses, all.

I do think that's a major flaw- the premise that everyone has the same iimplants and aberrations. I think the OTIII stuff, particularly, is a really good example of that.

The cult does indeed- as Hubbard did- use its techniques, premises and theories to get its hooks into people. I think that there's what some would call a "honeymoon period" where the courses and auditing seem neat at first. Then things start to get weird.

In my opinion, most critics, skeptics and any other detractors probably wouldn't care too much about Scn theories and techniques if there wasn't all this bullshit connected with them. Imagine if CofS was never mean to anyone, if the RPF really were rose petals and talk therapy and if going to Ethics really meant, how can we help you. Imagine if they didn't rip people off. Imagine no staff contracts, free loader debts, abortions or enforced disconnection. Well, then it wouldn't be CofS. It wouldn't even be Scn, yah? Most of what I named has policy in writing specifically implementinng it and the rest is excused and extrapolated by policy, on an implicit basis.

I see where Hubbard cribbed a lot of his ideas. I've not seen that he improved on those things.
 
Top