A letter to Tory/Magoo

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's not about me, Zinji----but it's OK for you to write
utter :bs: about me, my character, who I am.......


You know me about as well as a ....never mind. You don't,
OR you're part of a well planned op that has been running
for a VERY long time. Just about as long as you've been around,in fact.

Spare me your fans screaming at me because I "Think everyone is OSA". No, I do not..nor do I think Zinji is OSA (although he *could* be, as much as others claim I am).
However, sliming me and saying "This isn't about you"---
Is a bunch of crap.

This isn't about you, either, Zinji---so move along, state your facts, but spare me the utter black pr inferences (that do fit right in with OSA's Black PR campaign about me, by the way).

For those who have been kind, and get it, thanks.
For those who will cheer Zinji on re what a moron I am,
hey.....here's to you, too: :whatever:

To DM: "Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Time is on *our* side!

To those lurking, use LRH's Final PL:
The Way OUT
IS
The NEEEEEEEEEEEEAREST
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR"

(Hey! He took it, why not you?)
Bring the docs---you may never see them again, no kidding.
My best,

:rose:

T
 
Spare us the melodrama and martyrdom.

You said you wanted us to look, listen, and learn.

But apparently you don't if it isn't what you want us to see, hear, ot think.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Spare us the melodrama and martyrdom.

So it's "Melodrama" if I get pissed because someone
creates a creepy image about me and it pisses me off?

You all scream you have your rights to say whatever,
but if I try to say Zinji saying what he said (that wasn't about me, but WAS very much about me) isn't ok in my book----then that's martyrdom?

Right.

Roll on. Roll right along. :clap:

Tory/Magoo
 
We don't know the 'whole M&M story' because they're not telling it. We don't know what they're doing 'behind the scenes', unless we go by what we see in plain view and assume more of the same; and, if that's the case, watch out.

Because 'sitting back and wait to see what happens' is exactly what M&M want everyone to do. It's also what the 'Church' wants everyone to do. They want to supplant Scientology Criticism and replace it with impotent faith and trust.

If Marty and Mike really were the kind of counter to the 'Church' that they allow people to conceive them to be, *what* would be the result?

One possiblity; nothing. Everyone would sit back and trust that something was happening 'in the background' until the steam was off and the public scrutiny died down and media and government pressure was off and, people would be able to believe that 'things are better' because they'd never hear about the evil.

Or, a variation; Mike and Marty convince those actually putting pressure on the 'Church' that they are the best way to 'reform' and get credit as the 'Church' installs some mildly reformerish policies, hides its dirty laundry better; offers to reunite families torn apart by disconnection, grants some amnesties to those Mike and Marty have vetted as to not being 'SP/Opterm/Haters/Natterers etc.; and the gushers can all gather together and sing kumbaya/Road to Freedom.

If absolutely necessary, David Miscavige can even 'retire' from day to day operations and allow a lovable figurehead as replacement, and everybody can clap themselves on the back that their effort paid off. Eventually David can 'be forgiven' and take his rightful place as the beloved 'Old Man' of the 'Church' who was only human and made some mistakes, like the rest of us.

Ron showed him how to do it. Davey would no longer be in danger of being indicted, because, after all, he wouldn't be 'running' things any more.

The money and crimes could stay hidden; Ron can be revered and acceptable truth for all will reign.

Naturally, there are other things that could happen, but, I'd love to see what kind of scenarios others come up with. Based purely on what we *know* and on the history of the 'Church' and on the *visible* evidence of M&M's efforts.

Please though; no flying ashtrays.

Zinj

All of this will not only ensure that the scientology train keeps rolling along, but also that Marty will not have to end up in jail *with* DM.
For me *that is what Marty its *all* about.
Stay out of jail.
Have an income.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Heh. Ah well, if being 'not a tactician' = moron the human IQ just imploded.

And, I don't remember saying she thinks everyone is OSA either. At least not this week. Scratch that; I *never* said it.

But, thankfully this *isn't* about Tory or me or anybody else. Not even Ron. (or Davey or Mike or Marty.)

What it *is* about is the dozens and hundreds of people who had the courage to stand up to the Cult when it was dangerous. The people (not me) who first accumulated and published the secrets and sometimes paid for them with their reputations and even lives.

And, it's about the fact that to allow Mike and Marty to sweep decades of horror under the carpet with a glib 'well, we won't do that any more' would be an abomination.

Zinj
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
So it's "Melodrama" if I get pissed because someone creates a creepy image about me and it pisses me off?

Huh!?

Zinj said:
Tory, you're an honest and enthusiastic and well meaning person, so, this is *not* addressed to you, because, god knows you're no tactician or expert in the decoding of bullshit. You're probably a wonderful student of human nature when dealing with the 90% wonderful and straightforward people we're most likely to meet.

I'm lost.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
<snip>... to allow Mike and Marty to sweep decades of horror under the carpet with a glib 'well, we won't do that any more' would be an abomination.

Zinj

I agree, and so far it looks like that is what M&M hope to do -- we'll see.

Obviously M&M and the sycophant chorus think "scientology" is wonderful and present themselves as willing to do pretty much whatever is necessary to keep scientology "working," keep it from getting such a bad rap that it disappears, and get it out there in the world to "clear the planet" (or whatever they're calling the takeover now).

Now, when because of the internet most people in the world will never enter an org or sign up for services, how will they actually do that?

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Hubbard was out to "help people," or that the fact that some individuals "feel better" because they submitted to scientology training and processing is of any importance to anyone other than those individuals. Hubbard didn't give a shit about the welfare of individuals as can be easily seen from the facts about his life. He cared about gaining power over people and being the one who decided how the social order would be constructed, what was "legal" and what was not.

I think the new Independents will continue to work to gather up all the "elite" and will write off the "common people" (who don't have any money and are pretty much a lost cause anyway), and will concentrate their dissemination efforts on "opinion leaders" in society and politics. These are people they have at least a SMALL chance of "controlling" with one-on-one dead-agent "handlings" and using the dissem formula to "bring them to understanding" that REAL scientology is just the best thing ever even though it went through a bad time under the leadership of a very bad man: DM.

Powerful people like having power and can be expected to look at ways to increase that power. They are the perfect demographic for the dissemination of scientology.

That can be done (at least M&M and crew might THINK it can be done) "behind the scenes" by a small group of dedicated, highly "trained" fanatics working directly on people in high places. Let the rabble (us over here on the natter board) shout and scream -- we are insignificant.

The "can't we all just get along" argument is fine and dandy when your future and your freedom is not at stake. But imagine a world -- your local school, your local government, your state government, the big businesses that employ the people in the community where you live -- run according to "scientology" tech, admin, ethics.

Then scream.

Then get yourself educated on how propaganda works, and become very alert, and watch for any signs of this surreptitious "take over" in your area.

Then scream about that.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
What's that code for, Zinji? (and no, not paranoid--read on):

Well, sorry---but Yaude used to say the exact same kind
of little tips, secret code to buddies he was working with.
Ya sure you're not being used by Bill? He used to *love*
to use critics--that was one of his specialties.

If you're chatting with people, and you've never met them, and they're adding any bit of put downs---ask them to call.
That will flush it out, right away. :omg:

Re :
Hey Tory

I know where you are coming from and I am 100% with you. I too post over there once in a while when I think it is prudent.

You're one of my real heros who was carrying the touch of truth and exposing abuses even before I was. You did it when almost no one had your back.

Well I have your back and I'd go to battle with you against the cult and its abuses anyday if it's needed!

Love ya!!!

Thanks for all you continue to do.

Cya soon my dear friend.

Larry
__________________
"Oh make no mistake. It's not revenge he is after, it's a reckoning". - Doc Holiday

My blog: http://larrybren.blogspot.com/

Thanks SO much, Larry! I greatly appreciate your kindness and your help. :kiss:

Tory/Magoo
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
So would it be mo' bettah if they said "oh, it's just great, and we still want to do that stuff" ?

Just wondering.

How many people here did shitty terrible things when they were in?

I'm NOT saying that anything should be swept under the rug. I think ppl SHOULD take responsibility for their past (and present, as applicable) actions, but I wonder sometimes if this worthy and relevant standard's always applied singly...
 

byte301

Crusader
What's that code for, Zinji? (and no, not paranoid--read on):

Well, sorry---but Yaude used to say the exact same kind
of little tips, secret code to buddies he was working with.
Ya sure you're not being used by Bill? He used to *love*
to use critics--that was one of his specialties.

If you're chatting with people, and you've never met them, and they're adding any bit of put downs---ask them to call.
That will flush it out, right away. :omg:

Re :

Thanks SO much, Larry! I greatly appreciate your kindness and your help. :kiss:

Tory/Magoo

Tory, it was a joke. I posted I was lost and Zinj said follow the pizza crust (bread crumbs). The mushrooms were in reference to the 60's psychedelic mushrooms I believe.

Please quit seeing OSA lurking behind every rock. That is not the case here at all. I know you have been fair gamed for years but no one is out to get you here.

Zinj wrote a post to you that you felt was insulting. I thought it was a very nice post and that's why I said I was lost.

A lot of things get misunderstood or misinterperted on the internet. I think this is one of those times.
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
MR

at least Mike Rinder has the decency to say what he did in CofS was wrong and is honestly speaking for his (current) actions.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
A lot of things get misunderstood or misinterperted on the internet. I think this is one of those times.

Fair enough---at least I have the balls to say what I think,
knowing it will piss off some people, but since it IS what I think, due to years of watching such actions, I'd rather ask, than not.

That's why I **love** live communciations, vs. written.

:D

T
 

byte301

Crusader
Fair enough---at least I have the balls to say what I think,
knowing it will piss off some people, but since it IS what I think, due to years of watching such actions, I'd rather ask, than not.

That's why I **love** live communciations, vs. written.

:D

T

Yeah me too, Tory. It just makes life so much easier to talk live. I like a woman with balls so just keep doing what you do.
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
... to anyone operating on the basis of 'Well, Mike and Marty are doing good things; not enough, but, it takes time'.

Marty called Mike's most recent TV interview 'professional'. Yup. That's what it was. Mike's been a professional liar for all of his adult life. He's been a professional manipulator of media for the 'Church'. Months ago Mike made the claim that he 'knew things that could put David Miscavige behind bars', but, that he wouldn't reveal them, because he had an 'exclusive' with Panorama, so, please don't ask me any more....

Right. That's 'reach and withdraw' isn't it? Good Tech. Bullshit, but Good Tech. Now that Mike's done his 'professional' interview, we hear that not only did Mike *not* have any kind of 'exclusive' deal with Panorama, but that, since some of the things he said in his hours-long interview were left on the cutting room floor, but, wait, wait, there may be a *sequel*!!!, we shouldn't expect him to talk any more. Apparently 'we might say' that he's dealing with the FBI, according to him. Yes, we might say it. But, even if it were true (patently not) he won't even fill in the blanks about what was *left out* of the TodayTonight story, because, after all, there may be a *sequel*.

... the essential evil of people who make a living of fucking with people's heads. When we first heard that Marty Rathbun *wasn't dead* and instead writing a column for a tiny Texas newspaper, it was a curio. Interesting fact, but, nobody was 'calling for his head' or demanding that he 'speak out'.

We know how that goes and, as evil as he'd been in the Cult, few seemed to harbor ill feelings towards him. I certainly didn't. However, not long after that, he showed up *here* and announced that he was open for business, delivering exactly the hokum he'd been administrating when he wasn't busy trying to 'ruin people utterly'.

That naturally raised a few eyebrows and some questions, which were, considering the circumstances, addressed to him relatively politely.

His 2nd post to ESMB was more or less to tell people to fuck off and that, anyone whom he'd harmed, he was willing to 'audit over their upset' free of charge :)

Anyway, by then Marty was becoming more transparent :)

Mike is a different issue. I actually had some hope for him following the SPTimes stories. He *didn't* want to talk, even to sell a bill of goods and apparently only agreed to 'confirm' others' stories after being threatened by 'Church' attorneys. He didn't, like Marty, go the media and *lie*.

Unfortunately, he was eventually brought into the 'fold' and apparently Marty helped get him a job and some jaunts around the world and he's wearing his 'hat' again.

Professional Liar.

So, ask *yourself* what these characters are up to. Ask yourself what's the *best* possible outcome. Don't assume they're being honest; they have no more 'benefit of the doubt'. Ask yourself, 'why do they want *me* to 'support' them?'

Zinj

Zinj, I admire your ability to see through all that BS to the core. :yes:

It's great that people like you remember M&M's statements and compare them with their following actions.

I remember that back in April Marty promised on his blog that he "will do something EVERY day to free Heber". - Do we see any updates from him? - I haven't. (Ooops! Sorry. He DID go to Int Base with JB to try to retrieve JB's passport, and tried to ask for Heber.... He tried... Well, that's about how far his promise stretched into reality - for me).

It's better to stay on the safe side and not fall for their proclamations to do something "Really Great this time". - It just might be well planned PR move to attract attention from admirers.

P.S. There might well be some well-crafted PR campaign underway executed by M&M to gain power and overthrow DM while taking all the credits for what Anonymous and Critics and Exes achieve in bringing down Co$. Just a thought.
One thing I'm pretty sure of is that M&M *does* have some hidden agenda (that they *will not* tell their virtual followers). Once I read Marty let it slip (on some subject, I think Heber's) that "... is not part of a plan I/we have".
Since then I've been sceptical and suspicious about Marty.... Now, Mike, too (and thank Zinj for bringing it up).
 
Last edited:

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
good stuff

Even though it's getting a little heated, I am enjoying this dialog! Lots of great posts!

My take regarding the M&M show has always been that they are an evolution in the deconstruction of Scientology. They are like a half-way house for addicts. Sort of a necessary evil. I do see them as liars, however, and not to be trusted until they get honest. But remember, they must lie to protect LRH's image, or the game would be completely over for them. They are still in the illusory world of True-Beliefism, and without protecting the facade of LRH as saviour of that world, the walls would come crashing down on them.

For those of us who have already experienced the crashing down of those walls, it can be easy to judge others still stuck in the illusion.

While trying to have compassion for both sides in this drama, I will stay glued to the show. It's better than anything on TV!

:D
 
Top