A Nanny Story

JustSheila

Crusader
Thanks, Face. :hug:

This story is so hard for me to tell. :bigcry: I've told it on camera to Australian news a few years ago, and was reduced to tears. I had such a lump in my throat I could barely speak. Most of that segment was cut before airing because COS threatened to sue. This was serious stuff. If only the senior nanny, "Sue" would have come forward, or the child's mother, to substantiate my story, they would have aired it. To date they still have not.

I still hope one day they will.

The boy got much sicker and was in critical condition when his mother finally showed up some time later, when I had the entire nursery by myself, which is another story.

I believe he survived, but I can't be entirely sure, nor do I know if he suffered any brain or other damage from such a long, terrible illness.

I turned it over in my head so many ways. I was so tempted to just take the child back to the doctor, but by then I had a good idea how cruel COS could be and I'm sure they would have charged me with kidnapping and painted me as a criminal for trying to save this child's life. Not exactly the typical worries of a 16-year old, right?

Like I said, I'm pretty sure the boy survived but how that happened and what happened next is even harder to tell. It got much worse before things got better. I need to take a break now and tell the rest of "Joshua's" story tomorrow.

Big hugs to you my friend. :biglove:

Sheila
 
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DeeAnna

Patron Meritorious
"Back in the 70s and 80s, though, formula and baby foods weren't always a great option. I remember when Gerber was exposed for its main content of sugar in its foods and little to no nutritional value - it was a big uproar. Its baby foods had up to 80-90% table sugar content, no added vitamins, and formulas weren't much better. These sorts of betrayals by trusted brands did much to create an under-society that distrusted all common knowledge, products and professionals. So Hubbards timing was perfect to fill that distrusting void with his spiel.

Gerber, of course, upgraded its products since decades ago and the formulas now are tremendous for kids. But it wasn't always like that."


Sheila, I was babysitting and then raising and feeding babies beginning in 1960. I can not remember anything at all like this being "exposed" about Gerber baby foods. Ever. Perhaps this was "told to you" by Cof$? Gerber started making baby foods in 1927. Another brand was Beechnut. These are the strained fruits and vegetables introduced at six months or so.

As far as "formula", there were only two recommend that I am aware of back in the sixties. Similac ("similar to lactation") and Enfamil (infant meal). Prior to the introduction of these nutritionally balanced formulas, babies were fed with a home-made formula that consisted of a mixture of condensed (canned) milk, Karo syrup, water, and cod liver oil. (Seriously!) My mother confirmed to me that this was indeed the mixture prepared by young mothers who did not breastfeed in the 1940s when she had infants.

I got interested in this particular subject while doing genealogy research and encountering "marasmus" listed as Cause of Death on the death certificates of many young infants in the 1906-1920 time frame. An archaic medical term, today we would call it "failure to thrive". Basically the infant starved to death due to a lack of protein. In some cases the mother had died in childbirth (still quite prevalent at the time) so who knows what the child was being fed. In other cases the mother was alive, but perhaps her milk was "not good" or the child had a metabolism deficiency.

I found a case of infant death by marasmus in my own family, in 1916. I know the history of this family and all of the members. They were definitely not poor, so economics would not have been a factor. It is the immunoglobins in breast milk that the mother passes to the child that are so highly desirable. "Formulas" cannot reproduce them. Nor can goat's milk, cow's milk, soy or barley formula. Other than marasmus, a whole lot of infant deaths were attributed to pneumonia. In reading these death certificates, I am led to wonder about dehydration/electrolyte imbalance as the actual cause of death - which we today know can kill an infant rather quickly. But I don't think they had the medical knowledge of this at the time.

The only "scandal" I can recall related to infant formula is that in some third world countries, the dry formula mix provided was mixed with contaminated water or in order to "make it go further" was mixed at a weakened ratio of powdered formula to water.

----------------------------------------

This is a most interesting and valuable thread. Thank you to those of you who have had the courage to post. This is indeed a vile aspect of the "story of $cientology". But it needs to come out.

I would like to hear more about the pedophiles.

Because it sounds to me as if one was a pedophile, these "nurseries" would have been fertile ground. (I am from Western Pennsylvania. Home of Penn State and the Jerry Sandusky sex crimes. $cientology - it's always worse than you thought it could be.)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Deanna, are you really reading all I'm writing? What's with the clinical approach?

Why do you keep addressing me personally about barley formula? Why do you address me as if I am some misinformed health freak??

Yes, Gerber had very high sugar content in its baby foods at one time. Yes, they did not always fortify their products with vitamins. Vitamin fortification came later. Too bad you never personally learned of this. Do more research then. It was on national news on Chicago television before I ever heard of Scientology. I never said it wasn't sanitary or anything like that. You may be right about the formulas back then, IDK, I never used them. I breastfed, then solids because it was the healthiest option for my son.

You want to hear more about perverts on a forum. Has it occurred to you that the victims are now alive and this is not a 1930's history lesson? People have feelings. Please drop the clinical approach. Imagine if you were a victim.

As for barley formula, I never gave it to my son. It was also common knowledge by then that cow's milk often caused colic in infants.

please stop addressing me personally to 'handle' me due to some odd idea you have in your head that I am some whacky misinformed anti- medical Scn believer. My mother was a nurse, my sister a doctor. We are on the same page except you don't believe Gerber ever had high sugar added. They did. They haven't for decades. We disagree. Do more research then. Why do YOU find that so impossible to believe? It is a fact. Sorry to disappoint you.

Address your nutrition posts to everyone, then. Stop singling me out. This is not about barley formula and nobody here is a strong advocate for it anyway. Certainly not me.

what I am writing is not about barley formula. These are real people, most still around, wtf?
 

JustSheila

Crusader
- story continued -

Sue was upset that the MLO tossed the antibiotics, too, and spent a couple of hrs writing up reports the next day. I was still green and 'woggy' so completely disgusted.

Due to the shot the doctor gave him, not surprisingly, Joshua improved a little over the next 24 hrs. He no longer had a fever, his color was slightly better, but he still had terrible diarrhoea. Marion the fraud quickly returned him to our nursery, with the poor excuse that she 'didn't have room.' Sue was furious, the child was not well, still in great danger, and she wrote more reports. Joshua was isolated from the other children with his little crib placed in the back of our already small playroom.

The little I knew about antibiotics was enough to know the child would crash if not continuing the dose. It was only a few days before he looked nearly as bad as when I had taken him to the doctor, and he was slowly getting worse, despite the MLO's odd magic cure-all bogus drink concoctions.

Then the second shoe hit the floor. Sue announced she was going on vacation for 3 weeks and I'd cover the entire double nursery myself. She hadn't taken a vacation in 8 years, she said.

Sue made lots of special arrangements to cover the nursery. Dory was to share responsibility to look after Joshua, the MLO was to check on him twice a day, administrative staff to help, etc. It sounded like everything would be well under control and I'd have plenty of support.

Dory was swamped with her 12 infants. She came by once. I never saw anyone else, so couldn't even leave for five minutes that whole time.

i had no first aid training and no experience with babies until the CEO, and it wasn't taught. Oh, I knew how to clean, change diapers and sheets, warm up food and bottles and cook simple things. I knew kids liked to be cuddled and sick kids needed to see a doctor, but that was about it, and I wasn't provided a phone or even contact details for parents or anyone else.

Fast as I moved, I wasn't keeping up very well. The days mostly consisted of changing diapers. To my credit, I somehow managed to keep good hygiene and feed them all. None of my 30 or so toddlers got sick, or even diaper rash.

But Joshua continued to go downhill and slowly weakened more every day. He was listless and pale, still had diarrhoea and couldn't even hold a bottle. I managed to get messages out to other nannies that he was desperately sick, could they please get his mother? I stayed later one day, missing my bus, to cover for the evening nanny so she could find the mother. She was far less concerned, as if she hadn't noticed him deteriorating, and that, too, shocked me. In retrospect, it was that delusory Scn attitude of everything's wonderful that kept her from seeing the obvious. But she was a good person and helping however she could now.

I took the parent van back to course, two hrs late and in trouble for missing muster. That got me sent to Ethics, of course.

Joshua took a bad turn overnight. When I arrived the next morning, his breathing was shallow, he'd had huge diarrhoea and was weak and light as a rag doll. I was torn up inside. The other children could yell or scream but this child was dying and needed attention now, "WHERE WAS HIS MOTHER?" It had been six weeks, maybe months since he'd gotten so sick and she was nowhere to be found.

i gave him watered down apple juice, not trusting the concoction from the MLO. Was everything going to go right through him?

I held him, I cuddled him, I prayed. "Joshua," I said to him, "You've got to hang in there. Whatever it is that babies do that brings their mothers to protect them, you need to do that. We need your mother now so you can get better." I didn't dare put him down. I was terrified out of my mind for this child and absolutely did not know what else to do.

Then she walked into the nursery, all decked out in the fake Navy's missionaire splendour.
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for this thread, Sheila. I haven't read every entry, but it brought up a question I've been wondering about for 3 decades.

Back in Clearwater in the mid 80's I worked for a noted WISE company and heard a story about one of the employees having been an ex-SO nanny, not sure if it was Flag or another org. Anyway, the nanny was responsible for the death of a baby or child, the nanny was routed out of SO and went to work at this company. I've never seen this death mentioned anywhere in ex forums.

I'm not sure of details, but wondered if anyone else remembers this story?

I have a first name of the nanny coming up in my recollections but am leery of mentioning it since it has been so long and I could be mistaken. It was not a common name.

I also think the death had to do with the child being hit by a falling lid on a trunk or something of that nature. Again, couldn't swear to these details, 3 decades was long time ago.

Anybody have info on this incident?
 

JustSheila

Crusader
The Confrontation

There I stood with Joshua in my arms, and there she was just a few feet in front of me.

She started with the "How dare you interrupt a missionaire with your dev-t" voice, but mid-sentence glanced at the sick child in my arms, instantly recognising her little boy. Her voice lost that commanding, arrogant quality and had an undertone of uncertainty. She was a mother. She did love her little boy dearly and her heart betrayed that in her voice.

What she actually said was something like, "I'm on mission and was interrupted to come here, what's going on?" But these were just words. I saw her eyes, she saw mine. I saw her look at Josh and I saw her eyes change as her priorities took a sudden shift.

Some of you here know that look. I've heard Anons describe it. Like a veil removed, the brainwashing crumples and the Scn persona falls. What is left is a real human being.

In front of me now stood a mother in terrific emotional pain - a mother who dearly loved her child but had been cheated from her time with him, conned into a delusory world where she actually had believed what she was doing was best for mother and child. In front of her was terrible evidence that none of it was true.

She had been cheated, her son adored her and pined for her and he'd been terribly cheated. Suddenly I couldn't be angry anymore. So I skipped the guilt trip -- she was in plenty of pain already and put little Josh gently in her arms. She flinched, with horror at his weight and condition, I think.

"You have to hurry," I said. "You need to go straight to Emergency at The Children's Hospital . Speed, run red lights. If a policeman stops you, tell him your child is dying and you need an escort to the hospital. You need to hurry. Go! Now!"

"Can I bring him to the clinic?"

"No! They can't help him, he's too sick for that. If you don't get him to the hospital immediately, he's going to die! Hopefully you'll make it there in time. Hurry!"

She left. I never saw her or Josh again. For all I know, they may have blown. Nobody seemed to know what became of them.

Since I was never called to answer questions about the big flap I caused, or about an SO missionaire's child dying, I can only conclude that she really did go straight to the hospital and Josh survived. The mother may have even written something nice to my file, because when I finished the EPF, I'd been recommended for a mission at the CEO:

The CMO Mission to move the CEO from the Melrose blg to the Fountain blg.
 
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Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
... Then someone in the hallway started banging on the doors yelling, "Condition One! Condition One! Lock your doors!"

Sue explained to me that this was the drill when an inspector came. We were to keep the children quiet, not make any noise, and if anyone knocked on the door, say I was in the shower.

It lasted 15 minutes, then someone yelled, "All Clear!"

The inspector never knocked on the door.
I suppose the two "good" nurseries were kept that way for the inspectors to look at.

Yes, this is heartbreaking stuff but SO important that it be written into the record. Sheila's got alodda guts for doing this and I for one am deeply grateful.
Yes, Sheila, it is real good you have documented this. More power to you.

... In front of me now stood a mother in terrific emotional pain - a mother who dearly loved her child but had been cheated from her time with him, conned into a delusory world where she actually had believed what she was doing was best for mother and child. In front of her was terrible evidence that none of it was true.

... "You have to hurry," I said. "You need to go straight to Emergency at The Children's Hospital . Speed, run red lights. If a policeman stops you, tell him your child is dying and you need an escort to the hospital. You need to hurry. Go! Now!"

"Can I bring him to the clinic?"

"No! They can't help him, he's too sick for that. If you don't get him to the hospital immediately, he's going to die! Hopefully you'll make it there in time. Hurry!"
You did the right thing.

Helena
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Sheila, it occurred to me that around that time, one of the Paediatricians at Children's Hospital who worked regularly in the ER was a scientologist. One explanation for Joshua's disappearance is that the scientologist doctor at Children's Hospital was involved, not just in the treatment of Joshua, but also in discussing Joshua with management and the seriousness of his condition, which sounds as if it wasn't him just needing a course of antibiotics. My experience from being in the Sea Org is that when a child needs to be taken to the emergency room urgently, people would usually find out what happened, so that no one heard about Joshua is very unusual.

He was fortunate to have you in his corner.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Thank you. :)

The diarrhoea made him extremely dehydrated, something I know now but didn't know then. I don't recall what his original prescription was, but remember it wasn't a typical general antibiotic. As I told earlier, Josh never had the opportunity to take the medicine because the MLO dumped it. His response to the antibiotic shot was fast and positive, so I believe the antibiotics he was given at that time would have made him well. The fact he went some two more weeks without them made his condition critical from dehydration and lack of ability to hold any nourishment without passing it.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I'm sure the hospital would have put him on an IV for dehydration.[/FONT]
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Thanks for this thread, Sheila. I haven't read every entry, but it brought up a question I've been wondering about for 3 decades.

Back in Clearwater in the mid 80's I worked for a noted WISE company and heard a story about one of the employees having been an ex-SO nanny, not sure if it was Flag or another org. Anyway, the nanny was responsible for the death of a baby or child, the nanny was routed out of SO and went to work at this company. I've never seen this death mentioned anywhere in ex forums.

I'm not sure of details, but wondered if anyone else remembers this story?

I have a first name of the nanny coming up in my recollections but am leery of mentioning it since it has been so long and I could be mistaken. It was not a common name.

I also think the death had to do with the child being hit by a falling lid on a trunk or something of that nature. Again, couldn't swear to these details, 3 decades was long time ago.

Anybody have info on this incident?

I recalled an incident where a teen babysitter was supposed to be watching a toddler, and the toddler fell in a swimming pool. A quick search finds the incident from 1986.

I have some vague recall that, while the kid didn't die, he suffered brain damage as a result.

AnonyMary also mentioned the incident in an old thread
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I recalled an incident where a teen babysitter was supposed to be watching a toddler, and the toddler fell in a swimming pool. A quick search finds the incident from 1986.

I have some vague recall that, while the kid didn't die, he suffered brain damage as a result.

AnonyMary also mentioned the incident in an old thread

Thanks. The one I heard about would have been pre-1986 and did not involve a pool. I've heard of a few pool incidents over the years.

Also, it occurs to me that back then, when women who got pregnant were staying in the SO and not having abortions or routing out, many of them may have not gone to a hospital to give birth and there may have been no documentation or birth certificate. So in the event of a death, there was only the problem of body disposal. Macabre, I know. But would be easy to do and "greatest good" per cult think.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks. The one I heard about would have been pre-1986 and did not involve a pool. I've heard of a few pool incidents over the years.

Also, it occurs to me that back then, when women who got pregnant were staying in the SO and not having abortions or routing out, many of them may have not gone to a hospital to give birth and there may have been no documentation or birth certificate. So in the event of a death, there was only the problem of body disposal. Macabre, I know. But would be easy to do and "greatest good" per cult think.
No matter how dyed-in-the-wool on-purpose someone is, I can't imagine an SO mom NOT getting a birth certificate no matter how or where the delivery was performed.

People may be crazy, but they're not stupid!

Helena
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The place was referred to as The Base and was near Ensenada. I tagged along on a weekend trip from CCLA with a couple of parents, around 1971.

I remember a one story house, not very big, very rural. There was a gate house with all the windows busted out. Dirt driveway and yard, low brush on surrounding hills, no grass. There may have been a garden, and no other signs that children lived there.

There may have also been talk of locals trespassing with bad intent.

On the trip were Ginger Miles (SafeSpace Bob Miles' wife), Dorothy Jefferson, Joe Crane (worked for Scn-related Axioms Prod.), myself and possibly one other person. The head nanny at the Base was Darlene Kimberlin from Seattle, if I remember rightly.


The Mother of at least 4, maybe 5 children, went to visit them at the Cadet org one day and they were gone. Just gone. No one would tell her where her kids were. The last time she had seen her youngest, who was 5 years old, the girl had been standing on a chair in the Galley washing dishes.
After much searching, threatening, and otherwise noisy behaviour, the Mom was told that the kids had been taken to Mexico.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
The place was referred to as The Base and was near Ensenada. I tagged along on a weekend trip from CCLA with a couple of parents, around 1971.

I remember a one story house, not very big, very rural. There was a gate house with all the windows busted out. Dirt driveway and yard, low brush on surrounding hills, no grass. There may have been a garden, and no other signs that children lived there.

There may have also been talk of locals trespassing with bad intent.

On the trip were Ginger Miles (SafeSpace Bob Miles' wife), Dorothy Jefferson, Joe Crane (worked for Scn-related Axioms Prod.), myself and possibly one other person. The head nanny at the Base was Darlene Kimberlin from Seattle, if I remember rightly.

Was that one other person a Woman? Were her initials MK?
 

Hypatia

Pagan
No matter how dyed-in-the-wool on-purpose someone is, I can't imagine an SO mom NOT getting a birth certificate no matter how or where the delivery was performed.

People may be crazy, but they're not stupid!

Helena

We've all seen and talked about weird stuff brainwashed people do.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
- story continued -

Sue was upset that the MLO tossed the antibiotics, too, and spent a couple of hrs writing up reports the next day. I was still green and 'woggy' so completely disgusted.

Due to the shot the doctor gave him, not surprisingly, Joshua improved a little over the next 24 hrs. He no longer had a fever, his color was slightly better, but he still had terrible diarrhoea. Marion the fraud quickly returned him to our nursery, with the poor excuse that she 'didn't have room.' Sue was furious, the child was not well, still in great danger, and she wrote more reports. Joshua was isolated from the other children with his little crib placed in the back of our already small playroom.

The little I knew about antibiotics was enough to know the child would crash if not continuing the dose. It was only a few days before he looked nearly as bad as when I had taken him to the doctor, and he was slowly getting worse, despite the MLO's odd magic cure-all bogus drink concoctions.

Then the second shoe hit the floor. Sue announced she was going on vacation for 3 weeks and I'd cover the entire double nursery myself. She hadn't taken a vacation in 8 years, she said.

Sue made lots of special arrangements to cover the nursery. Dory was to share responsibility to look after Joshua, the MLO was to check on him twice a day, administrative staff to help, etc. It sounded like everything would be well under control and I'd have plenty of support.

Dory was swamped with her 12 infants. She came by once. I never saw anyone else, so couldn't even leave for five minutes that whole time.

i had no first aid training and no experience with babies until the CEO, and it wasn't taught. Oh, I knew how to clean, change diapers and sheets, warm up food and bottles and cook simple things. I knew kids liked to be cuddled and sick kids needed to see a doctor, but that was about it, and I wasn't provided a phone or even contact details for parents or anyone else.

Fast as I moved, I wasn't keeping up very well. The days mostly consisted of changing diapers. To my credit, I somehow managed to keep good hygiene and feed them all. None of my 30 or so toddlers got sick, or even diaper rash.

But Joshua continued to go downhill and slowly weakened more every day. He was listless and pale, still had diarrhoea and couldn't even hold a bottle. I managed to get messages out to other nannies that he was desperately sick, could they please get his mother? I stayed later one day, missing my bus, to cover for the evening nanny so she could find the mother. She was far less concerned, as if she hadn't noticed him deteriorating, and that, too, shocked me. In retrospect, it was that delusory Scn attitude of everything's wonderful that kept her from seeing the obvious. But she was a good person and helping however she could now.

I took the parent van back to course, two hrs late and in trouble for missing muster. That got me sent to Ethics, of course.

Joshua took a bad turn overnight. When I arrived the next morning, his breathing was shallow, he'd had huge diarrhoea and was weak and light as a rag doll. I was torn up inside. The other children could yell or scream but this child was dying and needed attention now, "WHERE WAS HIS MOTHER?" It had been six weeks, maybe months since he'd gotten so sick and she was nowhere to be found.

i gave him watered down apple juice, not trusting the concoction from the MLO. Was everything going to go right through him?

I held him, I cuddled him, I prayed. "Joshua," I said to him, "You've got to hang in there. Whatever it is that babies do that brings their mothers to protect them, you need to do that. We need your mother now so you can get better." I didn't dare put him down. I was terrified out of my mind for this child and absolutely did not know what else to do.

Then she walked into the nursery, all decked out in the fake Navy's missionaire splendour.

o God! This makes me cry.
I never put my own kids in a scn nursery, but I was guilty of neglecting them in my zeal to "clear' the planet. But these stories from Sheila break my heart for these poor babies. And for the unfortunate ppl who were assigned as "Nannies".
Sheila, you must have grown up fast, taking on so much responsibility as a teen. Feeling helpless and hopeless is not what I imagined scn to be about. But here is the truth of it....read on.
 

TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
The MLO (I'll call her Marion) told Sue to give her the pills. Then she looked at the label. "Just what I thought," she said. She turned on the sink water and began dumping the pills down the drain.

"What are you doing!?" I yelled, "I told you the doctor said he'd die without those pills. Stop!" I tried to grab the pills, but it was too late.

Marion, the arrogant, self-proclaimed alternative medicine guru know-it-all cold fraud nasty heartless bitch just mumbled something about knowing what to do.

And just like that, the vital, life-saving medicine this helpless child so desperately needed that I had lied was my own for the precious pills that would save his life was gone. Every last bit of it.

No doubt about it. What this moron, fuckwit robot bitch did was f*cking EVIL!!! :angry:

In the Real World(tm), had the child died, she might have found herself up on criminal charges for Negligent Homicide or even Depraved Indifference Manslaughter or something similar. Of course the GO would have covered everything up with blatant lies.

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
 
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TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
El Ron did NOT have a stroke in '75...Hisself had a pulmonary embolism...which I personally witnessed and have written about on ESMB.

Face:eyeroll:

I think I'll go with the the Kima Douglas biographical published on Tony Ortega's blog 26/Jan/2013 in which that incident was mentioned, seeing as she was a direct participant and you were apparently only bystander by your own account (c. 2010 posted here).

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think I'll go with the the Kima Douglas biographical published on Tony Ortega's blog 26/Jan/2013 in which that incident was mentioned, seeing as she was a direct participant and you were apparently only bystander by your own account (c. 2010 posted here).

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

Yes, I was only a bystander...Ive already told that Story on ESMB...never said otherwise.

What I did not include in the Linked to Post above was that I stepped out of my office and watched--10 feet or so in front of me as--an obviously in great physical pain and distress--El Ron was taken through the "A" Deck Foyer and out through the door to the gangway to the Aft Well Deck gangway to the Dock and off the Ship, to the Hospital.

"Pulmonary Embolism" is what is on the Hospital Records. In my first several mentions of this occurrence on ESMB I used the term "Heart Attack" which was what I was told it was at the time. I subsequently changed to the term "Pulmonary Embolism" after an ESMB Member corrected me by putting up a Link to the Hospital Records.

I knew and personally interacted with Kima on numerous occasions and have repeatedly said on ESMB that her insights, accounts and stories re: El Ron are, IMO, of far more value than mine and "Gold Standard" Stuff.

Face:)

EDIT PS: The Ortega "Kima" Link you provided is just a portion of all the Stuff re: El Ron from Kima available on the NET...Google is your friend.
 
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TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think I'll go with the the Kima Douglas biographical published on Tony Ortega's blog 26/Jan/2013 in which that incident was mentioned, seeing as she was a direct participant and you were apparently only bystander by your own account (c. 2010 posted here).

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

One time I was with a bunch of old friends. We had built a bonfire at night out in a dry riverbed and had chairs around it in a circle. Someone would start up a song like Rocky Raccoon and it was amazing how between us we could complete a song - everyone remembering a piece.

If you and I met, I'm sure we would have a "Don't I know you from someplace" moment. I can vouch for a lot of what you and Sheila are saying and I knew others who could. We often leave out telling details that round out our OSA profiles but that doesn't make our contributions any less worthy.

Thank you for including the link to the article on Kima. I had not seen this and the timing of LRH's declining health can explain a lot from that period.
 
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