A NEW Church structure

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm pretty sure it is a joke. But you do have a point about DM being all alone. Sheesh poor guy, how does he handle all that telex traffic or have they come up to present time and use email now?
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Yes, there is case gain available. Mileage varies, but proper preparation is a major facilitator.

Neither belief nor acceptance are required. Actually running the stuff is.

-snip-

The reason originally presented for inviting a person to open his mind to the bad science fiction of the Clearing Course, OT 2 and OT 3 was that these would remove the final barrier to Full OT.

It's been 40 years since the release of OT 3.

Been to a gathering of Ron's Orgs people, Standard tech Freezone people, or Scientology Inc. "OTs"? What do you see?

Do you see full OTs?

Anything worthwhile actually achieved with these psychological-hook-embedded levels can be achieved, without the psychological-hooks, by other means.

Promoting these levels can only be justified as a way of coaxing those still mesmerized by the Xenu Bridge to exit Scientology Inc., beyond that, promoting these levels is irresponsible.

And it makes a mockery of the basic activity (English language word) known as "auditing."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=29401&postcount=8
 

anondc7777

Patron
Here's the new COS business structure:

20050818045742_0.jpg

This is the correct answer.

What is this crap about rewriting ot3 and spinning? I read it and my chair didn't move at all.

Folks, I can tell some of you are having a bit of a hard time letting go. But you've done the hard part. You're out. Now chat with the other old folks here about the funny uniforms you used to wear and stuff, but if you have an e-meter under your bed, you really need to throw it out and get some therapy.

love, anon
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Most don't spin. A few do. Maybe a tech maven could
make a write up that informs people and won't put a few in a spin.

I've written a few times the details of how I once read a "confidential" bulletin way above my level and caved in, then years later saw it again when I was above that level and realized the words could not possibly be restimulative at all. What caved me in was my idea that I was "supposed to" get caved in by reading stuff I shouldn't.

I'm not talking about the super-duper OT3 details that are supposed to kill people through pneumonia if they are exposed to them before they are broke--sorry, ready--but something completely innocuous.

I'll repeat the question I have asked a few times--did the "few", Terril, know ahead of time that they were supposed to cave in if they read the materials when they hadn't done the pre-requisites to the level? Non-Scios read the OT3 materials--including the platens, supposedly the hottest of the hot parts of the level--and laugh. The "enlightened ones" say that is because non-Scios have not been set up for the level and so it is completely outside their reality. To some extent that is completely true, but not in the way the "enlightened ones", who have indeed been set up, intend. :)

Paul
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
Promoting these levels can only be justified as a way of coaxing those still mesmerized by the Xenu Bridge to exit Scientology Inc., beyond that, promoting these levels is irresponsible.

And it makes a mockery of the basic activity (English language word) known as "auditing."

Needless to say I don't agree. Personally the "xenu bridge" as you call it was running for me even prior to knowing anything about OT3 specifically - I don't think I am the only one - and this fact seems to be conveniently forgotten by people such as yourself. At a minimum it needs to be there as materials for those that need it as and when they need it.

I would agree with an assertion that it could be written in a more cosmologically neutral fashion such that it was less evaluative than it is. I would still want some of the material - the OT2 platens were vital - opened it up and made stuff easy to run whereas it was a nightmare and hard before - also at least one or two bits of the 3 stuff - mainly the fact that you can run across incidents which are not your own - but whoever does have the incident still needs to run it. To not have that datum causes misownership of the incident and can, if run too long, really smash a case about badly - that was a key factor in why I had trouble with the FPRD. I've seen an "OT" made to run NED - it fucked him over - was in total fear of running any more like that - misownership as far as I can tell - unfortunately he would probably be passed on now as was quite old then (early 80s) - and I wasn't even OT at the time of talking about it - would be nice to talk to him now about it - though it could be more to do with AGPMs rather than misownership - not sure.

The bit that I really think is unnecessary personally is the Inc 1 stuff - I don't appear to have any such incident and, the few BTs I found that did appear to have something on it would probably have "blown" on the intention, "run your start of track" or even "return to native state" or some such - don't know exactly - would need to be tested. Or, at least that was my mileage.

Nick
 

anondc7777

Patron
You need therapy. Not necessarily from a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but at the very least a counselor of some kind that can be trusted.

No offense, but ...

ugh I'll leave this to the real ex-sci's. I don't understand how you folks don't go nuts from the cognitive dissonance that'd be required to break with the church and still believe this crap. I mean, I understand you dedicated a large chunk of your lives to this, but can't you just focus on telling old stories about funny uniforms or how some celebrity was supposed to show up and it rained and some dickhead lost his cool about it or whatever?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I don't understand how you folks don't go nuts from the cognitive dissonance that'd be required to break with the church and still believe this crap.

The thing is that many have found that following the procedure dictated on OT2 and OT3 results in lasting personal benefits. As far as I can tell, there is something real that is being addressed by the procedure, even if the procedure contains some non-working parts and the theory is incorrect. Very little of the whole Scientology trip is black and white.

Paul
 

anondc7777

Patron
It's well-known that some personal introspection, chanting, meditating, studying, or whatever you call it can result in feeling good. It's not what you're doing so much as how you're doing it. Also, believing that it works is actually important. The mind is a complicated thing, and nobody has it all figured out. I'm just saying that these procedures aren't novel by any means. Meditation, chanting, and repetition are used in self-help rituals worldwide, some religious, some not so much.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
We could always start a drum-circle here, but, then we'd all have to wear patchouli, which would drive some people away...

Zinj
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Most don't spin. A few do. Maybe a tech maven could
make a write up that informs people and won't put a few in a spin.

The information on the OT levels is all written in the Jehovah's witness handbook.

Hate to tell you, but it has only been "a secret" in the Scientology community.

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/oahspe3/lika4.html

http://robertbayer.tripod.com/oahspe...ions/id30.html

And the JW have their own protest groups too!

http://www.blogigo.co.uk/JEHOVAHWITNESS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZpScLCMqEk

http://r.webring.com/hub?ring=jehovex

http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Disfellowshipping/disfellowshipping.htm

http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Disfellowshipping/the_table_of_demons.htm

How do we blame this on "Scientology"?

Magick is ancient. It is mentioned in the Bible.

Consider what happened in the first-century city of Ephesus. Many there "practiced magical arts."

But some were moved by the powerful works the apostle Paul performed with the aid of holy spirit. (AS if this wasn't magic)

The results? Quite a number of those who practiced magical arts brought their books together and burned them up before everybody. And they calculated together the prices of them and found them worth fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Acts 19:11-20. (From JW scriptures)

There is a thing called human spirit and character.

People can be mean and ignorant and suppressive in any group.

This has been a virus long before Dianetics was ever written.

T.O.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Scientology is a "black" and "white" combo operation.

"Black" and "white" as in lacquer and solvent: makes glue.

Some are immune from the glue effect; some are not.

IMO, the true lasting personal benefit comes from separating the solvent from the lacquer in the Scientology mind-trap.

Until then it's subtle psychological overwhelm.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56155&postcount=46
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Scientology is a "black" and "white" combo operation.

"Black" and "white" as in lacquer and solvent: makes glue.

Some are immune from the glue effect; some are not.

IMO, the true lasting personal benefit comes from separating the solvent from the lacquer in the Scientology mind-trap.

Until then it's subtle psychological overwhelm.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56155&postcount=46

If you sniff the glue, you get 'wins', but, there's a hangover

Zinj
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
ugh I'll leave this to the real ex-sci's. I don't understand how you folks don't go nuts from the cognitive dissonance that'd be required to break with the church and still believe this crap.

Thanks. It is quite easy to be in my shoes I can assure you. Some, a lot in fact, of Scn worked for me. That some bits didn't doesn't make it all wrong.

I am quite comfortable with Anon chanting Xenu and stuff like that. I think there are better things to chant at a protest - but its fine by me. :thumbsup:

Nick
 

Reasonable Lady

Patron with Honors
I wouldn't call it a religious philosophy. People are seen as spiritual beings but nothing addresses how a person becomes closer to God, only how a person becomes more "OT". There is no prayer or meditation. I think that it should be called a philosophy.

RL
 

anondc7777

Patron
Thanks. It is quite easy to be in my shoes I can assure you. Some, a lot in fact, of Scn worked for me. That some bits didn't doesn't make it all wrong.
The bits that worked don't work for the reason you think they do, and they most certainly don't make this "tech" anything less than a con. He cribbed the whole thing, kit and caboodle from a Russian brainwashing manual!

http://www.apfn.org/pdf/The_Brainwashing_Manual.pdf

More history of this doc:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/brainwashing1.html

Read that and tell me it isn't the "tech" in a nutshell.
 

nw2394

Silver Meritorious Patron
The bits that worked don't work for the reason you think they do,...

Look, I accept you as a person of goodwill. I wish Anon well in their activities against the CoS. I don't want to try to convert you to what I think. Lets just leave it at that.

Nick
 
I wouldn't call it a religious philosophy. People are seen as spiritual beings but nothing addresses how a person becomes closer to God, only how a person becomes more "OT". There is no prayer or meditation. I think that it should be called a philosophy.

RL

Many cultures consider that the simple act of addressing one's nature as a spiritual being in itself brings one closer to "god", howsoever you define that term.

The key question, is not: "how do you grow closer to god"?

Nor is it: even: "do you believe in god"?

The key question is:"what do you mean by 'god' "?


Mark A. Baker
 
The reason originally presented for inviting a person to open his mind to the bad science fiction of the Clearing Course, OT 2 and OT 3 was that these would remove the final barrier to Full OT.

It's been 40 years since the release of OT 3.

Been to a gathering of Ron's Orgs people, Standard tech Freezone people, or Scientology Inc. "OTs"? What do you see?

Do you see full OTs?

Anything worthwhile actually achieved with these psychological-hook-embedded levels can be achieved, without the psychological-hooks, by other means.

Promoting these levels can only be justified as a way of coaxing those still mesmerized by the Xenu Bridge to exit Scientology Inc., beyond that, promoting these levels is irresponsible.

And it makes a mockery of the basic activity (English language word) known as "auditing."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=29401&postcount=8

I didn't "believe in" Hubbard when I was "in". I certainly haven't become more accepting of his statements since I left.

There is much more to scientology than the "ot levels". Personally I regard people fixated on such things as "simple", and not in a "good" way.

It's truly a matter of not seeing the forest because the trees are in the way.

It amuses me that the two groups most inclined to accept completely every literal word of Hubbard's as a definitive statement are the "rondroids" & the "clambakers".

The "rondroids" take ALL of Hubbard's material as the "TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING but the TRUTH!

The "clambakers" take Hubbard's material as wholly intended to destroy others for his own PERSONAL GAIN!!!

Both attitudes are a bit "fixated".

Good luck finding your "full ots", Veda.

Personally, I doubt you'ld even know one if by chance you should meet one. No doubt you'ld ask him to perform a few "tricks" for you. :eyeroll:


Mark A. Baker
 
The information on the OT levels is all written in the Jehovah's witness handbook.

Hate to tell you, but it has only been "a secret" in the Scientology community.

This stuff has been floating around for thousands of years in human spiritual traditions. It's in Hinduism, Tantra, Gnosticism, etc..

Amazing how scientology gets all the attention for it. :wink2:


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
I didn't "believe in" Hubbard when I was "in". I certainly haven't become more accepting of his statements since I left.

There is much more to scientology than the "ot levels". Personally I regard people fixated on such things as "simple", and not in a "good" way.

It's truly a matter of not seeing the forest because the trees are in the way.

It amuses me that the two groups most inclined to accept completely every literal word of Hubbard's as a definitive statement are the "rondroids" & the "clambakers".

The "rondroids" take ALL of Hubbard's material as the "TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING but the TRUTH!

The "clambakers" take Hubbard's material as wholly intended to destroy others for his own PERSONAL GAIN!!!

Both attitudes are a bit "fixated".

Good luck finding your "full ots", Veda.

Personally, I doubt you'ld even know one if by chance you should meet one. No doubt you'ld ask him to perform a few "tricks" for you. :eyeroll:

Mark A. Baker

You misrepresent my views and then argue with that misrepresentation.

I never said there weren't paranormal sensitivities or abilities, or "OTs," only that the Commodore-Hubbard-era/Xenu-Implantology Bridge doesn't "make" them.

What is does make is people such as yourself, who endlessly chant "What's true for you" blah blah, who mislead and misrepresent others' views and then argue with that misrepresentation, insist that they "don't believe" yet use their e-meters as truth detectors, and quote Hubbard (in whom they also "don't believe"), word per word, from his PR statements about "What is true for you," etc.

And I know "there's a lot more to Scientology than the OT levels":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1
 
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