A new look at purification.

Terril park

Sponsor
First I would like to state my position. I have done the purif twice to
excellent results.

I have and continue to praise David Love's enormous efforts to handle
problems with Narconons's delivery of this action.

I consider care and especially medical attention has been criminally negligent.

I consider monitoring liver function is vital and especially in the light of those
who've had a long drug history may have severely diminished capacity to do such a rundown. This best I know is not done at all!

I thank Mimsey for setting me off on looking at this further.

Although I think in general the Purif, or any Detox regime is a good thing, I
have some criticisms of Purif tech.

---------------------------

On my first purif I was suprised to find it took 2-3 months. The only drugs I'd taken
were mariuanha once, general anaesthetics twice, never smoked, drank beer which was possibly less poluted than London water which is recycled 7 times!!! Yikes! I eventually concluded, rightly or wrongly that the reason for this long time on the purif is that I'd ingested a lot of lead from decades of driving in London when there was lead in petrol.

Was inspired to see how and if the purif can actually get rid of lead and other heavy metals, My tentative conclusion is that it might possibly have a mild effect on them, but dosn't really have the right intake of substances to do much about them. Amino acids
seem to be the most effective thing.

There are it seems some natural methods which appear to work quite well, and don't involve long hours in the sauna etc.

On using medical chelation therapy to detox lead, one reaches a point where after
high levels are gotten rid of there remains lower levels of lead excreted.
This is lead being extracted from bone. This seems to be a pathway Hubbard didn't comment on or possibly consider. Other toxins may well be stored in the bone.

The addition of Alpha Lipoic Acid is used medically, as this is perhaps the most potent
anti oxident known and is both fat and water soluble and is made by the body in small quantities. Thus heavy metals released into the body by chelataion therapy can be handled, or at least partially by ALA.

The usual medical chelating agents can be difficult and dangerous to use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylen...traacetic_acid

An apparently safer option is dmsa. This URL shows that lead for example has no safe dose. In fact in general heavy metals are all neurotoxins. Also indicates that treatment can go on for months.
http://www.dmsa-chelation.info/
There is a natural chelating therapy "HMD" which contains Chlorella, Chorella growth factor and cilantro tincture which is it says very safe. Its expensive, but there may be cheaper alternatives. Cilantro or coriander is also a neavy metal detoxifier.

It seems established that Chlorela does indeed help remove heavy metals from the body.

Chlorella contains much proteins and thus amino acids [ sythetic amino acids are used medically for chelation therapy] and a high percentage of vits and minerals.

Its possible that the purif may have a very mild chelating effect. One can buy chelating products that contain vitamins and amino acids.

http://www.oralchelation.com/ingredie.htm

Looks to me that the purif can be improved by adding these natural chelating methods. Or
probably better to do this before the purif.

Not only do they handle heavy metals, but also PCBs and Dioxins. Note that Dioxins have spread worldwide including the arctic regions and are known to accumalate in bodies.

http://www.naturalways.com/chlorella...l-analysis.htm

http://www.detoxmetals.com/pages/Scientific-Proof.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella

"Because of its unique ability to bind with mercury, lead, and cadmium, the plant (chlorella vulgaris) has become increasing popular as a heavy metal "detoxifier". Studies indicate that chlorella (vulgaris etc) demonstrate a superior ability to (safely) draw these toxic metals from the gut and intestinal tract (where they tend to accumulate).[7][8][9] Like blue-green algae, clinical studies on Chlorella suggest effects including polychlorinated dibenzodioxins detoxification in humans[10] and other animals,[11] healing from radiation exposure in animals[12] and the ability to reduce high blood pressure, lower serum cholesterol levels, accelerate wound healing, and enhance immune functions in humans.[13]"

http://www.naturalways.com/chlorella.htm

http://www.detoxmetals.com/pages/Chlorella-Facts.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylen...traacetic_acid
en.wikipedia.org



Purif series 14 of 27 March 1990 is very suspect from the date alone.

The problems of Dioxins seem to have been known in some areas since the late 19th century. It was not an issue in the US until the mid 1980's research.

Its unlikely Hubbard knew about this area at all. If he did, despite being a quick and dirty researcher his brilliance and intuition may have looked at this in more detail. It seems it only made the news as a component of agent orange.

Its possible the purif handles these. I don't know.

Heavy metal toxicity has been known for centuries, but has been mainly specific to working with them. In modern times treatment was started after poison gas exposure to arsenic in world war 1.

It seems unlikely that LRH considered this area as best I know its only mentioned
tangientially in this 1990 issue.

" But workers in factories which produce or use such things as pesticides,petroleum products...........plated metals, preservatives..........etc.

Thus further analysis of neavy metals are completely glossed over. Not really what one
expects from Hubbard. If he gets something wrong he corrected it. It seems VERY unlikely this is written by Hubbard.

Heavy metals are neuro toxins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotoxin


" Macroscopic manifestations of neurotoxin exposure can include widespread central nervous system damage such as mental retardation,[4] persistent memory impairments,[15] epilepsy, and dementia.["

One may have enjoyed partying, recreational drugs ect. But can one imagine greater barriers to auditing gain than the above?

Don't think LRH would have missed this, and the people in charge don't give a damn!!!

They appear to have no one researching other than for legal reasons and PR reasons!!!
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

^^^^ Avoid.

. . .
A couple of years later I learned that I had liver damage AND my cholesterol level was too high. I wish that I had consulted a doctor prior to starting the program. I would urge you to get an opinion from a physician BEFORE starting this program, ESPECIALLY since the people running it ARE NOT LICENSED PHYSICIANS, yet are making claims of being able to help you "feel better", "rid" the body of accumulated drugs and other toxins, etc. . . .

[...] Taking niacin in such high amounts can be, to put it lightly, extremely hazardous to one’s health, according to Dr. Manoj K. Mittal, a fellow in Emergency Medicine at The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. In a case study that appeared in April’s edition of the Annals of Emergency Medicine, Mittal reported on two adults and two adolescents who suffered serious side effects from taking large amounts of niacin as a vitamin supplement. Both adult patients suffered skin irritation, while both adolescents had potentially fatal reactions to niacin—including liver toxicity and hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) as well as nausea, vomiting and dizziness. One of the teens even experienced heart palpitations. All four patients recovered after treatment. [...]

. . . Vitamin "bombs" risk poisoning their users. The State of Oklahoma's examiners reported in 1991 that "The use of high amounts of vitamins and minerals in the amounts described administered by Narconon can be potentially dangerous to the patients of Narconon according to the more credible medical evidence ..." Many of the dosages set by Hubbard far exceed the recommended maximum intakes set by the United States Institute of Medicine's Food and Nutrition Board (FNB). Typically, Hubbard's dosages have not been amended for decades, despite the advance of medical and scientific knowledge; the Scientologists are required (by Hubbard's own instructions) not to alter his doctrines, even where they conflict with proven science. The Food and Nutrition Board is responsible for setting recommended dietary allowances (RDAs) and upper limits (ULs), the maximum level of daily nutrient intake that is likely to pose no risk of adverse effects. In almost every single case, Hubbard recommends dosages well above the safe limits, in some cases as much as 142 times more than the toxic level. The side effects of such huge overdoses range from liver damage, hair loss, brain swelling and nausea up to fatal heart and respiratory failure. The following table shows the levels recommended by Hubbard and the FNB, and the proven consequences of dosages beyond the FNB's upper limits . . .

. . . Robert E. Geary, an Ohio dentist and former Scientologist, underwent the treatment with his wife.

"She was in okay shape, but she wasn't an athlete. She was losing sleep and having hallucinations, and they were saying, "Oh, that's good,' " Geary said in a telephone interview.

Geary said his wife eventually suffered a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized . . .

. . . Several lawsuits have been filed against Scientology by families who blame purification programs for the death of a relative. In Portland, Ore., the parents of Christopher Arbuckle, 25, filed suit after he took a purification rundown course.

Arbuckle died after his liver failed. His parents settled out of court for an undisclosed amount and agreed not to discuss the case . . .
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some background of the Purification RD:

The Purification RD is the more marketable re-make of the original sweat program, which required everyone who had taken LSD to wear rubber suits and run around sweating out the "LSD crystals."

As far as I know, the first mention of LSD, by Hubbard, was in the 'Professional Auditors Bulletin' of 30 September 1955:

"I could tell you about long strings of psychotics run in on the Foundation and the Association, sent in to us by psychiatrists who then, using LSD and pain-drug-hypnosis, spun them and told everyone that Dianetics and Scientology drove people insane. I could tell you about the strange politics and ambitions of psychiatry, so well covered in the book Psychopolitics [Note: Hubbard's hoax Russian textbook, which he had just secretly authored and was not yet published] , and give you a proper riddle as to why we, a small group, the only ANGLO-SAXON DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF THE MIND AND SPIRIT [sic], have been subjected to so much attack and finance... But I am not telling you stories or being dramatic. I am inviting your cooperation in your own future security..."

As for dealing with those whose behavior became erratic or an embarrassment after Scientology processing, Hubbard wrote, in the same 'PAB':

"You'll find the family physician or psychiatrist was called in midway in processing... You'll find there is a vested interest somewhere in the insanity of the person. An so testify that you suspect it. We will have on hand lots of literature on LSD..."

Sixteen years later, Hubbard would write a similar policy, although this one doesn't mention LSD and is more to the point. It has the simple title 'Confidential', and is dated 29 June 1971:

"Policy is that we assign any case or upset in Scientology to past damage and interference with the person by medicine or psychiatry. They were sent into us after medicine or psychiatry had already destroyed them. We cannot be blamed for psychiatric or medical failures."

The last mention of LSD, of which I'm aware, is during 1977, and then a follow up in 1978:

In February 1977 came the HCOB 'Jokers and Degraders', followed by the March 1977 HCOB, 'The Gambler' (Here's a rare photo of LRH doing research into gambling)http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/images/michael-douglas3.jpg, followed in May by 'LSD, Years after they have come off of', which introduced the "Sweat program."

The formal "Sweat program" was further described in the HCOB 'LSD and the Sweat program' of February 1978.

From 'LSD, Years after they have come off of':

"Apparently they have become some sort of vegetable or zombie to a greater or lesser degree."

To place this in historical context, it had only been one year earlier, from his temporary residence in Washington DC, in April 1976, that Hubbard personally oversaw part 2 of the (1972) 'Operation Dynamite' - then renamed 'Operation Freak Out' - covert Operation to "terminately handle" author Paulette Cooper, by having her set up/framed and, "sent to prison or a mental institution." It didn't matter that Cooper's book was, by then, out of print, 'Operation Dynamite' had come so close to "working," that Hubbard couldn't resist a second try.

That's what Hubbard was thinking about at the time (along with the other covert Ops he was supervising), that, and LSD having made people - often the most productive and creative people in Scientology - into "vegetables or zombies to a greater or lesser degree."

Eventually, the "Sweat Program" became the more marketable "Purification Rundown," with the "Purif" meant for everyone.

Remember the hype for the Purif? "Only Scientologists who've done the Purif will survive World War III."

It was promoted along with the book, 'All About Radiation', which was "written by a nuclear physicist and a medical doctor," with Hubbard being the nuclear physicist.

'All About Radiation' was first published in 1957.

33953.gif

all-about-radiation.jpg


Suggestion to the Hubbardites: First, grow up and stop being a Hubbardite, then, if the idea of sweating out substances appeals to you, start from scratch, and work with qualified people (wogs). Basing your efforts on Hubbard's wacky pseudoscience is not likely the lead anywhere worthwhile.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Yeah, I did some gambling research too, a few weeks ago at the Indian casino. :biggrin:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
First I would like to state my position. I have done the purif twice to
excellent results.

I have and continue to praise David Love's enormous efforts to handle
problems with Narconons's delivery of this action.

I consider care and especially medical attention has been criminally negligent.

I consider monitoring liver function is vital and especially in the light of those
who've had a long drug history may have severely diminished capacity to do such a rundown. This best I know is not done at all!

I thank Mimsey for setting me off on looking at this further.

Although I think in general the Purif, or any Detox regime is a good thing, I
have some criticisms of Purif tech.

---------------------------

...(quote cut for space)

:thumbsup: I like this, Terril (all except that line about L Ron wouldn't have missed this...uh, yeh, he would have). You've really done some good research and that's commendable and your recommendations re medical supervision, etc. are terrific.

Just so you know, the original sweat program that the Purif was based on only took us about 2-6 weeks to complete.

Also, the research on LSD in the 70s was faulty or incomplete. AT THAT TIME (and I remember this), medicos stated LSD was stored and people were susceptible to flashbacks when it came into play again. That original research has since been disproven. Flashbacks are NOT caused by LSD coming out of the fat cells again and apparently it is not stored there after all. Flashbacks are more like a memory getting triggered by something in the environment.

Sorry, don't have the links to the LSD flashback research thing handy, this is off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone really wants to find the research on this, it will come up with a search on the Internet.

Good post, Terril.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
The "purf" may have its uses but when I type "purf" I am not referring to the "purf" created by Hubbard.

This information comes from a book called "Undaunted Courage"
written by Stephen Ambrose

It is about the Lewis and Clark Expedition. The passages below occurs
during the spring of 1806 with the Nez Perce Indians.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Among the party, Bratton was still suffering from his bad back….


At Private John Shield's suggestion, Clark prescribed a sweat bath for
Bratton. A sweat lodge was built, stones were heated up and placed
inside, Bratton went in naked with a vessel of water to sprinkle on
the stones to make steam, and after twenty minutes he was taken out
and plunged into cold water. Then back to the sweat lodge. Within a
day, Bratton was walking, free from pain from the first time in
months.


Lewis did most of the smoking and talking with the chiefs, while Clark
practiced medicine. …
One case was particularly difficult. An old chief had been suffering
from paralysis for three years. "He was incapable of moving a single
limb", Lewis reported, … Nothing Clark tried on him seemed to do any
good.
…the paralyzed chief showed no improvement. Lewis regretted that he
was not back in Philadelphia, where Benjamin Franklin had experimented
with electricity to treat paralytic cases. "I am confident that this
[chief] would be an excellent subject for electricity," Lewis wrote on
May 27.


Instead of shock therapy, the captains decided on heat therapy. They
built a sweat lodge for the chief and put him in, fortified with
thirty drops of laudanum for relaxation. It worked. The chief regained
the use of his hands and arms, and soon his leg and toes. "He seems
highly delighted with his recovery," Lewis wrote on May 30. "I begin
to entertain strong hope of his restoration by these sweats."

=============

RD00
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
First I would like to state my position. I have done the purif twice to excellent results.

By "excellent results" I assume you mean something like you felt better at the end of the process.

You do realize that for non-acute lead poisoning, the treatment is basically to stop exposing yourself to it. If it hasn't yet hit the central nervous system, the effects are all essentially reversible.

I would suggest that spending the equivalent amount of time relaxing in the countryside would also make you feel better and give your body the opportunity to flush out a lot of airborne toxins.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
:thumbsup: I like this, Terril (all except that line about L Ron wouldn't have missed this...uh, yeh, he would have). You've really done some good research and that's commendable and your recommendations re medical supervision, etc. are terrific.

Just so you know, the original sweat program that the Purif was based on only took us about 2-6 weeks to complete.

Also, the research on LSD in the 70s was faulty or incomplete. AT THAT TIME (and I remember this), medicos stated LSD was stored and people were susceptible to flashbacks when it came into play again. That original research has since been disproven. Flashbacks are NOT caused by LSD coming out of the fat cells again and apparently it is not stored there after all. Flashbacks are more like a memory getting triggered by something in the environment.

Sorry, don't have the links to the LSD flashback research thing handy, this is off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone really wants to find the research on this, it will come up with a search on the Internet.

Good post, Terril.


It seems the majority opinion re flashbacks is as you say.
One link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_misconceptions_about_illegal_drugs

I also read a study that went into greater detail on
how LSD isn't stored in the body.

In general the premise is that LSD is water soluble and thus won't be stored in the body, or fat cells. However I think its possible that there may
be more work to be done on this. Fat cells contain a large anount of water.
Toxins are it seems one of the reasons for the formation of cellulite. If
LSD is in the body at the time fat cells are formed, it seems qhite possible
this could get into the newly formed fat cell. Havn't been able to find anything on this though.

Now there is an outpoint in that doing a purif one is still not eligible for the SO. Any idea why that is?
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
"An independent (non-Scientology related) study of the Purification Rundown was proposed in 1985 by Dr. Joseph Miceli, Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Pharmacy, Children's Hospital of Michigan. Dr. Miceli's proposal suggested that the method might actually have some value in reducing toxins (PBBs and PCBs) from the body - but not for any of the reasons suggested by its author, L. Ron Hubbard. However, the Human Subject Review Committee at Wayne State University refused to allow the study to proceed because it was deemed unfit for human experimentation, according to Dr. Doug Spathelf, research director at Central Michigan University, and Dr. Daniel Graf, research director at Wayne State University."
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
<snip>
Now there is an outpoint in that doing a purif one is still not eligible for the SO. Any idea why that is?

Even the cult knows that crap doesn't work. It is no "outpoint" that one who has done LSD isn't elgible for the SO after a "purif" as the only thing that is removed is a little chunk of cash from the sucker.

Did the purif twice ? :duh:
And got "excellent" results? :melodramatic:
Gee, do it third time! :confused2:

Oh, can anybody refer me to ONE scientific study showing any benefit to the purif as administered per LRH policy?

Yes, I know, LOTS of very qualified medical people ( with actual credentials not he BS artists of either cult ) have pointed out the potential dangers of the amounts of crap taken on the purif.

The purif is another example of the gullible willingly following an insane madman -and risking it all to do so !
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
here in LRHs Bulgravia, you can buy small "pool" (20x20x30cm) in wich you put some water,then you put your legs (plantar) in and then plug in electricity.....
they say it have some magnets that pull out "all" the toxins out of you!!!!!

and really , when you put your legs in water become dark.....

and then you buy it.....

next time you try it water is not so dark...( or other way-first not so dark,but next time darker....)....people think it is working.....:coolwink:

but it just go on and on and on.....:happydance:
lol....
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh, can anybody refer me to ONE scientific study showing any benefit to the purif as administered per LRH policy?

Here's a study that concludes that no such animal exists, at least for the Narconon version:

http://www.kunnskapssenteret.no/Publikasjoner/_attachment/4311?_ts=11d719f7891&download=true

CONCLUSIONS
The Narconon Drug Prevention and Education program and the Narconon Drug Rehab program are designed to prevent drug abuse. Collectively, one quasiexperimental and five non-experimental studies document lack of evidence of the preventive effects of these programs. Thus, there is currently no reliable evidence for the effectiveness of Narconon as a primary or secondary drug prevention program. This is partly due to the insufficient research evidence about Narconon and partly due to the non-experimental nature of the few studies that exist.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
"An independent (non-Scientology related) study of the Purification Rundown was proposed in 1985 by Dr. Joseph Miceli, Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Pharmacy, Children's Hospital of Michigan. Dr. Miceli's proposal suggested that the method might actually have some value in reducing toxins (PBBs and PCBs) from the body - but not for any of the reasons suggested by its author, L. Ron Hubbard. However, the Human Subject Review Committee at Wayne State University refused to allow the study to proceed because it was deemed unfit for human experimentation, according to Dr. Doug Spathelf, research director at Central Michigan University, and Dr. Daniel Graf, research director at Wayne State University."

You have an URL?
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Hubbard's rundown is a crock. He didn't understand physiololgy of body, or the basic principals of chemical reactions, he knew squat about body chemistry, was a failure in pretty much all of the sciences, so, if you think the old dead fuck had anything worthwhile to add to the body of existing sciences then you need to get your head examined before anymore damage occures.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

iya.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
I THANK GOD for LSD!

Saved me from the Sea Org.........

but not from 31 years of participation in a mind-control cult!

........ perhaps I should have taken more trips? :confused2:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
You have an URL?

If you do the purif for a third time will you post a success story ?

I'm curious WTF anybody convinces themself they got out of something that has absolutely nothing other than Mankinds Greatest Friend LRH's proclamation of what it does.

Can you give some before & after backed up by real world facts instead of the Hubbardesque " the room seems brighter"! mixed with a little " I feel lighter"!

What is the difference in the purif to a person who has only had the purif?
a clear ?
an OT ?
Do they get the same or different " results " from a purif ?
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I THANK GOD for LSD!

Saved me from the Sea Org.........

but not from 31 years of participation in a mind-control cult!

........ perhaps I should have taken more trips? :confused2:

Funny stuff ! People went to ethics over a joint while LRH tripped on real drugs!

Sometimes, I think toking a joint with LRH would have made for some trippy BS.
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
[...]
Can you give some before & after backed up by real world facts instead of the Hubbardesque " the room seems brighter"! mixed with a little " I feel lighter"!
[...]

The room seems brighter. Wow! And I feel lighter. Wohoo! What a win!. Hold on, where is my body? Shit, I dropped it. Well, I'm off to the next wog hospital. Maternity ward here I come.
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
[video=youtube;HMGIbOGu8q0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0[/video]

...when someone comes in with a vague sense of unease, or a touch or the nerves, or even just more money than sense, we'll be there for them.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Even the cult knows that crap doesn't work. It is no "outpoint" that one who has done LSD isn't elgible for the SO after a "purif" as the only thing that is removed is a little chunk of cash from the sucker.

Did the purif twice ? :duh:
And got "excellent" results? :melodramatic:
Gee, do it third time! :confused2:

Oh, can anybody refer me to ONE scientific study showing any benefit to the purif as administered per LRH policy?

Yes, I know, LOTS of very qualified medical people ( with actual credentials not he BS artists of either cult ) have pointed out the potential dangers of the amounts of crap taken on the purif.

The purif is another example of the gullible willingly following an insane madman -and risking it all to do so !

One step at a time. Here is a study that shows detox methods reduce dioxins into Fetus

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653505004959

This shows that Dioxins are prevalent, dangerous and detox helps.
Now despite that many URLs comment how medical science considers detox bogus activity, other practitioners are actually doing it.

So first establish that detox is bogus. Then we can look at the purif.

Here is a URL that quotes some and primarily comments on how political pressure interferes with legislation:-

http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn275.htm

More on this general area:-

http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/#reassessment
 
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