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A note on Scales

Discussion in 'Grundy's Guide to Scientology' started by grundy, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scales are a very important part of Scientology.

    Pretty much everything is arranged in some sort of scale or heirarchy. Human emotion, human conditions, processing (auditing), training, organizational structure ... everything.

    Probably the most important in Scientology is the Scale of Awareness.

    Pretty much everything is put somewhere on this. Tone (emotional level), organizational structure (different departments are supposed to reflect different awareness characteristics), the training and auditing bridge.

    This is the chart which ties it all together.

    There is a post somewhere on this board which lists them and I can find it right now. Can someone post a link to the list on this board?

    So, everything in Scientology can (theoretically) be understood better if one understands what scientology means by these different levels. Some are self explanatory. Many could use definition as to what scn defines them as.

    Would someone else like to explain the different awareness characteristics or do people want me to do it?
  2. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    [FONT="Courier New"]             21 SOURCE
                 20 EXISTENCE
                 19 CONDITIONS
         ^       18 REALIZATION
       / | \     17 CLEARING
         |       16 PURPOSE
         |       15 ABILITY
         |       14 CORRECTION
         |       13 RESULT
         |       12 PRODUCTION
         |       11 ACTIVITY
         |       10 PREDICTION
         |        9 BODY
         |        8 ADJUSTMENT
         |        7 ENLIGHTENMENT
         |        6 ENLIGHTENMENT
         |        5 UNDERSTANDING
         |        4 ORIENTATION
         |        3 PERCEPTION
         |        2 COMMUNICATION
         |        1 RECOGNITION
         |       -1 HELP
         |       -2 HOPE
         |       -3 DEMAND FOR IMPROVEMENT
         |       -4 NEED OF CHANGE
         |       -5 FEAR OF WORSENING
         |       -6 EFFECT
         |       -7 RUIN
         |       -8 DESPAIR
         |       -9 SUFFERING
         |      -10 NUMBNESS
         |      -11 INTROVERSION
         |      -12 DISASTER
         |      -13 INACTUALITY
         |      -14 DELUSION
         |      -15 HYSTERIA
         |      -16 SHOCK
         |      -17 CATATONIA
         |      -18 OBLIVION
         |      -19 DETACHMENT
         |      -20 DUALITY
         |      -21 SECRECY
         |      -22 HALLUCINATION
         |      -23 SADISM
         |      -24 MASOCHISM
         |      -25 ELATION
         |      -26 GLEE
         |      -27 FIXIDITY
         |      -28 EROSION
         |      -29 DISPERSAL
         |      -30 DISASSOCIATION
         |      -31 CRIMINALITY
         |      -32 UNCAUSING
         |      -33 DISCONNECTION
                -34 UNEXISTENCE
    From here: The Mind Benders, Scientology by Cyril Vosper

    More of Hubbards mind bending.. He'll bend your mind into a freakin' Möbius bottle! - I suspect that he's just telling us what's bad and what's good. Without telling us why he does it... I have numerous gripes about placement of items on this scale.. Look at where 'ELATION' is.. Minus 25! - I felt elation when I decided to leave the scamcult... Hmm.. What's OSA/GO doing, operating on -21 Secrecy? - Is that where you're at when you pledge to keep the OT materials secret?

  3. clearcat

    clearcat Patron with Honors

    Not to mention where they trying to put you with "disconnection" - right above "unexistence" when you are actually at least up at "realization"... :cloud9: Doesn't that tell you something?:bigcry:
  4. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Yep! - Scios feel convinced that all this is so well thought out. That a 'scale' like this from Hubbard is literal truth...

    But in fact it's a confused jumble full of inconsistencies. I really think Hubbard was baffeling us with bull!

  5. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I like some of the scales.

    Perhaps the missing scales are most telling.
    The scales of justice are sadly absent in CoS.
    And what about the Solvency to Bankruptcy Scale? I could definitely plot my descent on that one while in the Church. :melodramatic: :)
  6. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    The only mistake you made or that was made originally is 6 and 7.

    Both are listed as enlightenment.

    6 is enlightenment.

    7 is energy.
  7. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    DM and all of his orcs operate in this section of the scale:

    -21 SECRECY
    | -23 SADISM
    | -24 MASOCHISM
    | -25 ELATION
    | -26 GLEE
    | -27 FIXIDITY
    | -28 EROSION
  8. sandygirl

    sandygirl Silver Meritorious Patron

    Quote from Tanstaffal:

    :hysterical: :hysterical:
  9. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Strictly speaking, I disagree with that statement.

    A better way of stating it to my mind would be: "pretty much everything can be mentally understood as arranged in some sort of scale or hierarchy".

    [Actually, I would state the above as "everything can be ...etc.". However, whether all such orderings are mentally "useful" becomes a less obviously apparent question and one more pertinent to abstract philosophy. For the present, I will confine my remarks only to the realm of "scales" which are "obviously useful".]

    Not to put too fine a point on it but the "arrangement" is in the mind which is doing the ordering NOT in the data being ordered by the mind. The data are literally capable of an infinitude of orderings depending on the "creativity" of the minds involved. [This is where "obviously useful" can become a complication. :)]

    Such "mental arrangements" are not fixed, inflexible, nor absolute. They are fully adaptable to the changing considerations of the mind which creates them, holds them to be "true", and uses them.

    Thus the "tech of scales" is clearly not limited.

    Hubbard's scales represent his ideas on how the tech of "gradients" CAN be used to organize specific areas of related data.

    In this light I would maintain that "scientology scales" are not so fundamental to the understanding of the subject of scientology as the simpler more basic concept of the gradient. "Scientology scales" represent the way Hubbard thought & evaluated the subject of scientology. However, his way is NOT the only valid way. [Thank god for that! :) ]

    Mark A. Baker
  10. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, I don't see your point beyond saying that I was implying that that's how you can arrange them mentally.

    I am not crowing the validity or rigidity of the subject as presented. I do think that understanding the basic concept of the gradient would help to understand what the subject as presented is trying to say.

    As a matter of fact, I believe that Hubbard's attempt to use this is the underlying cause for the format of data.

    I guess I was connoting the concept as you said it without denoting it that way.

    But there is always a more underlying layer of meaning to most anything that is delineated. Nothing is as straightforward as people might like to think. Scientology is not as straightforward as Hubbard said it was.

    But that's okay. Such concepts allow us to argue about it. But we would be arguing metaphysics, symbology and semantics. Mostly semantics.

    Er. .. what the hell was I saying??????
  11. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    For what it's worth you got my point.

    Sometimes I get REALLY CAUGHT UP in precise distinctions. Partly it's my sense of "fun with words" & partly it's a result of training. :soapbox:

    Yes, but semantics are the MOST IMPORTANT thing to discuss.

    Semantics are MEANING. If you don't understand the semantics being discussed you CAN NOT have a "meaningful" conversation. :pillowfight:

    I don't know either but your going great! :cheerleader:

    Slightly more seriously. I consider the "idea of scales" in scientology to be useful. The specifics of "scientology scales" are less useful.

    The specific "levels" of those scales represent LRH's evaluations. I don't necessarily agree with all of them. The numerical indexing, from everything I've seen clearly represents an arbitrary indexing scheme.

    With regard to the tone scale there is no "real" significance in "4.0" being "enthusiasm", "2.0" being "antagonism", or "1.1" being "covert hostility" other than a relative scale of apparent changes in mood/emotion/activity. The numbers are an arbitrary.

    The pattern of changes in tone implied by the scale however is a more substantive observation.

    Mark A. Baker
  12. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, on the numbering on the tone scale I think the cause is this:

    If you look at the spacing of the numbers on the tone scale he was trying to match earlier writings with later writings.

    To try to "pump up" the value of what he was saying, he implied a geometric progression of value on increased tone vs. an arithmetic progression.

    I remember having to clear up the concept of arithmetic and geometric progressions when trying to understand how something in one of the books was set up.

    Like the sensitivity on the Mark V meter.

    Anyway .. I do like arguing semantics lol
  13. nozeno

    nozeno Gold Meritorious Patron

    The most Important scale

    The only scale "the church" is interested in.

  14. uncle sam

    uncle sam Silver Meritorious Patron

    Great scale Nozeno! You are always right on and more importantly SHORT and SWEET on everything you post - a great example for others to follow. Did you have a relative who was a great Greek philosopher? You certainly emulate the great thinkers of the past and surpass those of the present. Carry on , I am looking forward to more quick and witty thoughts....
  15. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    The scales used in auditing seem accurate (know to mystery, pre-have etc.), and the tone scale is almost identical with what Elizabeth Kubler Ross observed in dying patients except that for "apathy" she substituted "acceptance." I think it's one of the things Hubbard (and all the people who worked with him to develop the auditing tech) got right.
  16. nozeno

    nozeno Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep and yep.

    Should we get a room?
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2008
  17. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire



  18. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Nice work Paul! :thumbsup:

    I feel that, with a dedicated effort on your part, you could indeed become a guru yourself. :yes:
    I'll send you a brochure for a Pink Rolls Royce. :)
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Thanks, Tans.

    But I am a guru. Look at my YouTube channel. It says right there "Guru". So it must be true. :)

  20. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    In that case, you are long overdue for this:


    Congratulations! :)