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A process of healing...


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When I first came to this board I felt that it was a positive place and for the first time since leaving scientology I could share my story and start processing my experience to allow healing.
The original thread with my story in it was sent in various directions with invalidations, fear, doubts that I was for real and many funny jokes that I couldn't help but to reply to. There were also a few very supportive posts that actually did help me tremendously.
I still feel this board is a positive place on the whole and I have found some very good resources and help here, made new friends, and I feel very good about it. My daughter also decided to come here and tell her story and made a post with regard the protests of the 10th of Feb 2008. Her thread was hijacked, and it degraded into something that made her take the decision that this board was too "fucked up" to go near or spend any time in. The person who did most of the attack was excused by other members because apparently she had had terrible experiences and also cared about kids. These excuses are not acceptable. No type of attack can be excused away like that or accepted from anyone, no matter how messed up their life is or was.
I am glad that my daughters boundaries are healthy and that she can easily and effortlessly keep negativity out of her life.
I'm not really sure why both of us have pushed so many buttons on this board.
My decision has been to stay. I think this board gives the opportunity for sharing of experiences and also learning from other people's experiences.

My story is nothing compared to what others have gone through, particularly those who were in the SO for many years.
Still, it did leave a scar and this forum has been the first place and only place where I have found comfort and healing.

In this spirit I am reposting my experience here, in the hope that it will help others, with comments added to documents and letters in order to explain things a bit better. The originals can be found in the original thread: http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=3354

My daughter's story is here (this is not the thread that was hijacked):
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Silver Meritorious Patron
[edit: copied from original thread with editions added]

I was on staff at Plymouth Org in Devon UK and also brought two of my relatives into staff with me [edit: these were my two children, a boy and a girl in their teens]. Unlike most people on staff, I had been a member of another cult and had studied religions and philosophy before going into Scientology [edit: I was a member of a buddhist school that turned into a cult while I was in it, at which point I left.] and my main aim was to find out how it worked and hoped against hope that this group was for real.

When I went into the org, I found that the people there were good souls trying their best to do their best for the world and this was endearing.
Because of my high stats [edit: the “ruin” questionnaire did not find a ruin in my case, it was practically a horizontal line on top of the graph], I immediately joined the TTC and began training as an auditor. I was a natural and quickly moved through the different levels.
One day, when I was reading a novel and then started counting the pages I just read, I realized I had gone too far and had to leave [edit: part of a students statistics is to measured by the amount of pages they had read that day while studying. As such, after reading any material, the pages are counted and written down, to be added up at the end of the day].
I did try to route out [this is a process where the person is taken through various steps to let them leave staff, including security checks], because of my relatives, which was a disaster. I was sent to SH and obviously they wouldn’t let me route out until I did the course which was the flavour of the day (the ones which everyone had been order to sell, no matter what the PC needed).
I signed in my course start papers, was sent to do the usual Sec Checks which of course I always passed with flying colours and then was interviewed by several high ranking officials. This last step was rather unusual as it came as a direct result of the fact that I have very high political connections in the real world [my father was the presidential adviser to the president of Chile at the time as well as a high ranking official in the ministry of education in Chile and a very close personal friend and adviser to the president of Peru at the time]. Who would bother with someone with no connections right?

After this fiasco, I walked out of SH and took the train home.

I know that Dorothy West (OTVIII) did take over Plymouth org for a while when I left, and, this is second hand data, as a direct result of my leaving both the ED and C/S were taken off their posts and sent back to SH for rehabilitation. Dorothy is the nicest and best person I know. She is also very gifted. As far as I know she is not working there anymore due to health problems.

I was not declared, nor did I care if I was actually [ edit: I am not sure what my status with the church is at the moment as they can easily identify me with the information I have posted in this forum].

But here is the main part of my story and what really hurts. Even though I went in knowing that groups are not perfect and even though while listening to LRH’s tapes I couldn’t stop laughing at the joke of it all (the way he continuously made underhanded references to where he got his data and had his little secret jokes – brilliant), I did want this group to be real.
When I realised it was just a money making machine that used psychology, and needs and wants of people to make money, it was a real blow. The way that staff would bully others who were “below” them was horrible. The way in which people were invalidated, made wrong, just because something was not real to them or they didn't have the money for yet another class or process, was not acceptable.

They did try to get me back for several months, years even. Told me that my case had been mishandled and that I would be “fixed” if I went back.

As a result I don’t trust any group or company. If anyone offers me anything I am continuously waiting for the price tag to be given or for their nasty or needy side to come out, which of course does.

Studies do show that people do need groups where they feel they belong to, to be happy. I tried to delude myself that this group could be it, but it was no good. It does hurt to this day and I have been unable to join any other group. I did get married and had a baby, which was one of the goals they tried to talk me out of, but as far as groups go, I trust no one.


Silver Meritorious Patron
[edit: copied from original thread with editions added]

Some comm you might find interesting... mine and my kids names have been xxxxed out to protect their identities.

Senior C/S (Martin) 18th December 2004
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx

Re: My leaving St Hill

I left St Hill on the 16th Dec 2004 because I felt it wasn't doing any good me staying. I was routed onto a course to make up stats [edit: Statistics are very important to staff members. Each staff member has certain things that count as statistics and they will do just about anything to keep their high, otherwise they are in big trouble with the church] in the morning and was waiting for more than 3 hours for the MAA [this is the person who deals with ethic matters in the church, in other words, anyone who does not agree with something that the church says or wants them to do] in the afternoon, she didn't see me, but it did give me time to reflect. I only had £10 left and 3 days to stay at Bullards [edit: this is a house close to Saint Hill where staff members can stay], the course and routing form take a lot longer than that.

Two things you said stuck out in my mind, one is that if I have attracted situations which pull me off staff from Plymouth Org then there is something going on that is fishy, could be MUs, out ethics, out tech, overts. I don't know and I won't try to list [edit: listing means that the person is making a list of possible things, people or events that might have caused an upset in their lives. This is a big no-no in scientology as it is only meant to be done with an auditor and an e-meter so that the person doesn’t go on a mental spin]. The other is that when you asked me if I was happy as a staff member I thought I was [edit: I was not happy as a staff member, but lied here to keep the peace], but when I went for a walk around St Hill I saw keyed out [edit: keyed out means they are happy] happy staff members doing their jobs and getting on without fear, tiredness or sickness... something [bad indicators] which I observe every day at Plymouth Org [edit: this was actually true during the first half of the day, but I think it might have been a Thursday at the time because come near 4pm I saw staff turning into real monsters as they tried to get their stats up. I saw a teenage girl abusing and insulting a middle aged man at the front desk for leaving sacks of mail there that had to leave SH before 4 or the letter could not be counted toward that week’s stats]. These are my personal observations, true for me and could be stained by an out ethics situation or overts.

Dick and Susie [edit: Dick was the Executive Director of Plymouth Org and Susie was his wife and also the Senior Case Supervisor who is a person that decides what people have to receive auditing on and also checks the auditing files to make sure no mistakes had been made] are regularly having temper fits at staff. Last week some staff were late Dick blew up at the ones there in time, the ones that were not late, wrong target. He also blew up at a public called Ralph Angel, he left and never came back (I was told it must be overts [negative actions] by Ralph on Dick), these are just two examples. Susie will snipe at staff and make condescending comments even about public within their earshot. Helen Goddard is always sick or over tired, but very keyed out about training to be an auditor so it doesn't stop her in the least. Mark Goddard soldiers on with a smile even though only sees his kids 15 mins a day if he's lucky (overheard Helen saying this several times). Tony Harris is counting his days on staff and feels the only reason he is not attacked is because he has a personal comm line with Dick and the only reason he stays is because he is a man of his word and he signed a contract, not because he is keyed out working there.

Vicky [edit: second in command] and Xxxxxx [edit: my son] seem happy most of the time, working away and look keyed out, Vicky does get regular back problems though. Viv I don't have much interaction with, but I have seen both Dick and Susie shout at her over things and my obnosis [edit: obnosis = “observation of the obvious”] would be of her in a tone of fear. Mark Jeffreys is hardly ever there, when he is he is placed on supervising the academy and he makes it known he is unhappy doing that.

Tony, Dick, Vicky, Sandra, Greg, Helen and Mark (Goddard), and Martin are continuously getting sick. Greg would be moodie and entheta [edit: negative] in the course room even when supervising (when he supervises the academy only as when he supervises the Div Six course room he keeps his TRs [edit: keeps up a positive demeanor]). David [edit: David Hutt] is a brilliant auditor, but he gets epileptic fits during sessions.
There are days however that are happy and relaxed, people laughing and joking and getting on with things, problem is one never knows which one is ahead.

An Org should be a theta [edit: positive] place, somewhere fun and happy to work, somewhere one feels safe and a joy to be in. That's not the experience I have had, nor Xxxxxx xxxx(my daughter), Tony Harris or Steve Terry, I don't know about the others. I suppose I would accept entheta in a wog [edit: non scientologist] workplace as normal, but an org is not a wog place. It hasn't been a joy for me to work there and the only reason I have lasted so long in good spirits is that I wanted to be an auditor very badly and have a good chunk of theta [edit: immortal life-source] naturally.

I don't think the staff is SP in any way, none of them are. I do think there is out tech, out ethics [edit: doing negative things] and ptsness [edit; under the influence of an SP and thus a Potential Trouble Source], a lot of it, that has not been handled, no matter what the excecs say, it has not been handled in the least. For the staff to try and handle it is impossible. Handlings on a few of the staff and meter checks have been done but to no avail. For proof that this is happening in Plymouth just look at the Ethics files there [edit: these are the files from interviews by the scientology “police”].

Orders from above are conveyed with anything but joy.

Dick told me I had him as my target, well, he is supposed to be our leader so he is responsible for the group so I suppose he is right. If he can't handle 22 staff with a cool head and clear and leadership then how is he going to handle 100? 200? He needs cramming and a lot of auditing, he deserves it. Maybe with the right handling he could pull this org out of the crap, his heart is in the right place. For an OTVII OES get Vicky audited, she's good at her job.

All I know is that I respect the vision and work being done by Plymouth Org, my son is very happy there and I will try to do my best to make it so that he is financially secure while he is on staff and until he can earn enough as staff to take care of himself. But I don't want to return there, I feel disillusioned and no longer share the will to spend my time in this group although I do love them and hope they reach their goals and beyond. Maybe my previous life leaving scientology has been restimulated [edit: acting out an event that happened before. During session it came to light that I had in fact been a pioneer scientologist up to the first half of the 1960s and had then left as I had a very big disagreement about the way the group was going and they way in which all our work was being plagiarized by Hubbard and true and real people with amazing abilities were being excluded from the group. I took this to be a reaction of fear from Hubbard as these people did not fit into his plan of total domination], I don't know and won't try to look.

I am going to stay with a friend in London for a couple of weeks, then decide what to do. I believe in Scholastics and The Way to Happiness and I will work to implement them in South America with or without help [edit: I had no plans of doing this but thought it would keep them off my back].

Xxxxxx Xxxxxx

[edit: When this letter was received at Saint Hill, people from the Plymouth Org went into my house, were let in by my son, and went through all my personal possessions, including my clothes, computer, files, books, letters, photos etc.. Their excuse was that they were looking for my friend’s address in London. I did not have a friend in London. I had left the country. The invasion of privacy made me feel violated.]

[Edit May 2011: When the memory of a previous life in scientology came up, I did say to the auditor (scientology counselor), that I was not sure if this recall was mine. The reason being was that it could have been a body mind memory (most probably), a spirit trying to convey information, or the memory of some other living person. I have had to do a lot of training in discerning the difference between these things, mostly because for me we were all one, and all experiences are owned by everyone. I am now much better in identifying what belongs to "me", my "body mind" or someone else. However, the counselor and his immediate superior, at the time, insisted that this was my own experience (made me "clear" words about whole track etc.). But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter, because if it comes up, it comes up to be focused on and resolved. ]
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Silver Meritorious Patron
[edit: copied from original thread with edits. The letters below were exchanged between Dorothy West and myself several months after I left. I had been audited by Dorothy on a couple of occasions and also helped her with her drills after she attested to OTVIII and was then able to study the new Golden Age of Technology courses so that she could be more efficient auditing other people.]

more comm found:

Dear xxxxxxx,
There are major changes taking place in Plymouth Org and we are reviewing, previous situations.

It would really be a great help if you could give us the information You have on how your cycle was 'handled'.

Dick is not there any more and 2 Sea Org missionaires are currently in The org putting things straight.

They had the opportunity to go and see xxxxx this morning to get her data. They gave me to understand that they absolutely do need yours on the basis that they can't find everything in the existing files.

Please do get in comm.

I have very fond memories of you and your abilities as a technical Terminal and your great affinity and high level of application of the tech. I particularly remember iworking with you in the academy and having fun!

Much love Dorothy

Dorothy West 25th May 2005
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx

Re: Observations on Ply Org
During my time as a staff member at Plymouth Org, I observed various things which made me feel disillusioned with Scientology and the 3D dynamics in Plymouth Org.
Dick Jones
I don’t remember seeing Dick without health problems, he was always having assists and would often have a cold.
He would have temper fits most days against staff. The first time I saw his temper fit was a few days after my daughter Xxxxxx joined staff. It was a Sunday and we went in to do renovation work in the morning. As we walked into the Org, there was no one on the ground floor, Xxxxxx shouted “hello!” downstairs, Dick answered and started coming up the stairs, Xxxxxx told him there was no one on the ground floor when we arrived, he blew up at shouting and screaming about how he was away only a few minutes and nothing could happen and all sorts of other things.
We were both shocked at his outburst. Unfamiliar with how to write Ethics Reports, we did nothing about it, but at the time I felt Dick was just like any other Wog.
Another incident was when a public called Ralph Angel, who I was co-auditing with, had an emotional scene with regard my leaving to train at St Hill, Dick shouted and screamed at him in the Film Room, this was just before I went to train at St Hill in January 2004. I heard the shouts and screams as I was walking back to the Academy from going to the toilet, I could not make out what Dick was saying. After this the Ralph Angel blew the course. At the time I felt this was very inappropriate because Ralph was obviously keyed-in to a lot of charge due to whatever my leaving had brought up in his case and this “handling” by Dick was not right. I wrote the incident up but then heard Susie commenting in the reception area that Ralph had obviously done a lot of overts on Dick or he wouldn’t have blown the course blaming Dick. She directed me to “Leaving and Leaves”, but even after reading it, it didn’t feel right, I still felt Ralph had been badly handled while in a very keyed-in state.
Another incident that comes to mind was at a Staff Meeting, Dick came in, threw all his notes and papers violently on the floor and started screaming and shouting at the staff. He then asked that if anyone wanted to be out of the group to stand up and leave straight away. He then asked a Div 6 staff (can’t remember his name) whether he wanted to leave, the staff member said yes, so Dick told him to go. The staff member got up and left the room, went into the front room, Dick shouted what he was doing there, and he said he was finishing something or other, Dick told him to forget it and just leave. Then he asked Steve Terry whether he wanted to leave, Steve said no.
I felt this was really very bad, I eventually wrote it up and sent it to St Hill.
A week before I left staff on December 18th 2004, Dick again blew up at the staff on the morning meeting, this time because people were coming in late, the target however was wrong as he went for the staff who where there, the ones who where on time.
Dick also blew up at my face a few times, the ones that stand out in my mind are once when I wrote a CSW several days before the day in question for being half an hour late to the Purification Program (which I was receiving), Susie never received the CSW from the Tech Sec, and when I arrived late she screamed and shouted and called me every name under the sun, then wrote a KR.
I didn’t respond in like manner as I wanted to get going to the Purif, but I did write it up in my Purif report that day, as her behaviour had really upset me as I don’t like being shouted at..
Later on I was called to see Dick in the small room by the film room downstairs. He said “What the fuck do you think you are, making snide remarks about my Senior C/S!!! You fucking Barbie Doll, come in here all high and mighty…..” he went on from there with more insults, then shouted how Susie was not wrong in getting upset. I told him I didn’t think, nor said, that Susie was wrong at any time, because she wasn’t, she was upset that she did not receive the CSW and did not know where I was, what she had done wrong was her handling, shouting and insulting me before a Purif session. I told him if she shouted at me again I would retaliate, that shouting was not the right way to address me as I did not respond well to it. Plus I had not slandered or spoken a word against Susie to anyone but my auditor in the Purif report form, I had followed proper procedure.
Again, after this incident, I felt he was just another wog and nothing better could be expected of him.
Another time he blew up at me was when I told him I was leaving staff. I wrote it all up and sent it to St Hill.
During an interview with Dick and Vicky, Dick commented that something I said was a “generalisation” I felt he was implying I was a suppressive person.
When I wrote these incidents up when I left, Dick told me I had him as his target. Well, he was supposed to be our leader so he was responsible for the group, so I suppose he was right. I don’t think Dick is a suppressive person, I do think he needs a lot of auditing and LOTS of O/W handling.
Susie Jones
I saw Susie making snipe remarks at Staff and make condescending comments about public in their earshot.
I once heard her in the Office downstairs shouting criticisms about a public (man, blond, blue eyed, singer/songwriter, can’t remember his name) while he was on the phone line.
I also heard her shout at Viv (HAS) in the Office one afternoon, I walked out again.
During my first few months as staff I heard her discussing PC cases in public in the Office, reception area and the upstairs eating area, but after talking to her about it I never heard her discuss cases in public again.
Once at a public event, Steve Terry’s wife arrived with some really nice food, Susie said the woman was “Making Amends” (quietly). I felt this was very wrong.
I also saw her moving at least one staff around posts to fit the stats, xxxxx was moved from post to post by her until he eventually left staff.
After the one incident where she shouted at me before the Purif session, I never had any abuse from her again. She treated me respectfully and professionally.
Technically speaking I felt she was very good.
I did hear from my daughter, she told me Susie often shouted at her when there was no one around, that she made degrading jokes about her and blamed her for lots of things that went wrong in the org, I told Xxxxxx to write it all up, which she told me she did and at least the degrading jokes stopped.
After I started my leaving routing form Susie was upset with me, but she kept it to simply not talking to me anymore, just greeting and goodbyes.
I felt Susie did have a lot of wog traits but she would stop doing wrong once she was brought up about it. She was very passionate about the Tech, something I respect and admire.
For as long as I was on staff, Vicky has had health problems which have not been addressed. Apart from that, she looks happy and keyed-out on staff.
I have observed her being professional and respectful in her dealings with staff and public. She shouted at me once, but then promptly apologised.
To me Viv looked afraid for most of my stay as staff. Nervous and afraid. For the past few months she seemed to become hardened and snippy. She made a couple of condescending comments to me in the reception area when I was on my staff leaving routing form, but apart from that she normally does everything Dick and Susie tell her to do.
Mark Goddard
Mark was overworked and always sick, I don’t remember ever seeing him without a cold or backache.
He is a very good auditor and Academy supervisor.
Greg Boyce
Greg had a few temper outbursts in the academy while I was there. He was not advancing in his courses very much and was being used to supervise both Div 6 and the Academy students. He was always asthmatic, had colds or accidents. His coat was always dirty and nails uncut. I found him having cigarette breaks downstairs lots of times while he was supervising, leaving the academy without a supervisor.
He was friendly and his dealings with the Div 6 students was outstanding, really impressive.
Dave is a good auditor, in three session with me he had epileptic fits, after I told him where we were at, he carried on with the session and it didn’t seem to have a negative effect. He is very respectful and friendly with public and staff.
Hard working and effective. I have observed her being friendly and outgoing in her dealings with staff and public.
Tony Harris
My observations of Tony are coloured by the fact that we went out as a couple. Technically speaking, he is a good Purif I/C. He is always getting sick, he has learning difficulties which were never addressed and his Method 1 was never finished. He has a drinking problem which also had not been addressed while I was there, even though I wrote it up and he did also.
Tony counts the days he has left on staff (literally) and he was not happy there at all. He told me the only reason he stays is because he signed a contract and he is a man of his word.
Helen Goddard
Again, Helen is another person I never saw healthy, she always had colds, accidents, headaches or other health problems. She was overworked and looked sickly and tired (pale, black rings under her eyes, unhappy face).
She was very keyed out about being an auditor and very unhappy about being sent away from her children to study at St Hill. Also very unhappy when her husband was sent away to the USA.
She was becoming a very good auditor while I was there, and while training she looked keyed out and happy. She was respectful and friendly to staff and public.
Steve Terry
I didn’t see Steve much as we had different time tables. When I saw him, he was friendly and respectful to staff and public.
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx
As he is my son, my observations will be coloured. Xxxxxx had fantastic gains as a staff member, he is happy and keyed-out.
While on holiday he went off the rails a bit, as he was keyed in to his old life in Madrid. Eventually, and after much effort and money, I got him back to Plymouth Org.
Due to comments made by Dick (that I had tried to pull Xxxxxx off staff) I can only assume Xxxxxx lied about why he did not return to Plymouth after his holiday.
I did tell Xxxxxx he could come and live with me, but only because he said he did not want to go back to Plymouth as Dick would fire him.
I told him we would go back just to get our stuff and then leave, my plan was to take him to the Org once we arrived there, or have Viv come over to the house.
When he refused to take the plane in Madrid, I had my nephew find him in the streets and put him in the next plane to Bristol, then I sent word to Tony and Viv to arrange for someone in the org to pick him up from the airport. If my intention was to take him off staff, I would not have let anyone know he was on his way, nor had bought him 3 return tickets to Plymouth.
If it wasn’t for me, he would not be back on staff and I was upset when I was given a Non- enturbulation order for trying to take him off staff. If I had wanted to take him off staff I would simply gotten my nephew in Madrid put him on a plane to the USA, not gone to all the trouble to make sure he got to Plymouth.
When I received that note, I knew I wasn’t coming back to Plymouth Org. My efforts to get Xxxxxx back there were completely invalidated. I then knew nothing had changed so there was no point in returning. My only consolation was that Xxxxxx was back on staff, and would soon be back to his real self, happy and productive.
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx
Xxxxxx is my daughter, so my observations will also be coloured. She was unhappy as a staff member.
She tried to route out, this was mishandled and she didn’t return.
I am sorry that she doesn’t want anything more to do with Scientology, things happened to her at the org which affected her deeply. She is a very high achiever, friendly and intelligent girl, so her reaction to the Org is completely out of character and must have something to do with her experiences there.
While on staff I had very good stats and had some great gains. I did attract situations which pulled me off staff from Plymouth Org, so there must be something fishy there, but I have not, nor will, try to list. I was on the staff leaving routing form for quite a while before I left.
My original intention was to go to XXXx and get Scientology into the social structure using my family’s political and social power. I am no longer following that path at full steam, although if I get the opportunity, I will get Scholastics to go in there.
As a matter of interest, I have not shared my views or observations with anyone outside the proper lines.
As to my behaviour, I have no idea if it was any better or worse than the ones described above, I hope it was better, but you would have to ask the other staff members about it.
It might seem contradictory that I have no intentions of going back to Plymouth Org, but at the same time did everything in my power to get Xxxxxx back there.
This is because I believe that 3D groups are particularly good for certain people, a certain need is met within the 3D dynamic which lets them advance and prosper. Xxxxxx is one of these people and the Org is the perfect place for him.
When I say I see someone as a wog I don’t mean it as an insult but simply as something which explains their human, irrational or animalistic behaviour, something that can be remedied with auditing. Still, it is not something which I expected to find at a Scientology Church.
I cannot tell you why I am so upset about my experiences there, the only thing I can say is that I felt heartbroken and disillusioned, I expected the Church to be better than the wog world, much, much better, and it seemed more like opening a can of worms. The only thing that kept me on staff so long was the fact that I was auding Frances and was not going to leave a PC without an auditor, specially seeing as she was making great gains with me.
This is true.
Xxxxxx Xxxxxx


Silver Meritorious Patron
[edit: copied from original thread. these are emails exchanged between Plymouth Org and myself several months after I left. The main objective of these emails were to get me to pay up what is called a freeloader account, basically any “free” training and auditing a staff member receives.]

--- plymouth <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dear XXXX,
> Hello how are you doing?
> I am now the OES and one of my hats is to collect
> money owed to the org.
> I have not had much to do with your cycle since you
> went off auditing lines,
> so basically I wanted to get in comm and find out
> what your plans are with
> regard to your Freeloader bill and future bridge?
> It seems that you are settled over there and
> planning to stay there so why
> not pay off your debt so that we can release your
> folders and you can get
> on lines at your nearest org?
> Please let me know your honest thoughts on this.
> Yours Sincerely
> Mark Goddard
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.20/95 -
> Release Date: 09/09/2005

Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:52:29 +0000 (GMT)

Hi Mark,
Congratulations on your new post!
I've been hearing great things about the org and all
of you, well done.
I don't have a job at the moment and no one will
sponsor my bill.
But I am working on another book, if this one sells
better I will certainly clear all my debts.
Give my love to Helen, I heard she is making a
fantastic auditor!

Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:31:46 -0000

Dear Xxxxxx

Thanks for your reply. Yes things are going pretty well
and helen is doing great as an auditor.

What do you plan to do as far as the bridge is concerned?

Obviously the cycle of your leaving remains unresolved as
you never returned to complete the routing off. Some payment towards the services you had would show at least the intention to pay, which would help with your cycle, even if you dont have the wherewithall to pay it all right now.

I like to think that we had a fairly good comm line so I am not going to do that a disservice by being too social and covering up my true feelings on the cycle. You were well liked and a lot of good people put a lot of hopes and effort towards your training.
Your blow was harmful to those people who put that confidence in you. Some payment towards the bill would show the intention to start making up the damage for that and that would be very welcome.

I really would like to see those comm lines and relationships restored so I hope to hear from you soon.

Much Love
Mark Goddard

Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:52:46 +0000 (GMT)

Hi Mark,
Thank you for your email.
I also had put a lot of energy, hope, effort, money
and time, not to speak of all my life plans, on my
training and working at Plymouth Org. I will not go
into why I left with you, as you have obviously been
left out of the investigation which followed plus it
would restimulate a whole bunch of stuff which would
be very bad for the baby.
Don't forget that while on staff my stats were
consistently high and I had great results and wins.
If I had money I would start paying my debt off, not
because it would make you or anyone else at the org
feel better as I know it wouldn't; but because I
believe that Ply Org can reach Idea Org and all income
is a help. Plus I also know that it would go toward
the staff wages, which are always in short supply. I
have no pretenses nor interest of making anyone feel
good or bad with my actions, everyone is responsible
for their own feelings as you well know.
I am glad you have voiced the way you felt when I
left, I knew it at the time, but could not say
anything to you as you were not my auditor.
Thanks for that, I appreciate your honesty.
Be sure that as soon as I start earning money, some of
it will go to the Org.


Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:12:38 -0000
Dear Xxxxxx,
Hello. How are you doing?
Xxxxxx is back and doing well.
Did you have a good christmas? Are you pregnant? If so how many months?
There are lots of things I would like to know but I think thats enough questions for one e-mail so on to the reason for my e-mail. What would be really great would be for you to pay your bill off. The perfect solution would be for you to pay the whole thing off and I know you are capable of
doing this if you really decide to.
Whilst this would be great I realise that it may not be possible immediatley. It would make things much easier for Xxxxxx and us on your cycle if you at least flow something meaningful towards it. This would at
least show in to the physical universe an intention to handle the situation.
Your help in getting Xxxxxx back has been noted and is in your favour so lets at least take some step towards handling your cycle to avoid getting in to a situation which keeps you off the bridge and puts Xxxxxx in an difficult position.
much love
Mark Goddard

Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:32:29 -0800 (PST)

Dear Mark,
Lovely xmas surrounded by family and friends, it was
fantastic. The baby is dues in April, so you can
imagine the pregnancy is well into the third
Yes, if it wasn't for me Xxxxxx would not be back on
staff.. I didn't do it for brownie points but for much
higher reasons, so don't try to use Xxxxxx as
leaverage to try to get money out of me when I have
none. The money I sent Xxxxxx was in fact put together
by family members (including Xxxxxx) for the sole
purpose of getting Xxxxxx back to Plymouth Org.
I know you have to meet your stats, I understand that
fully, but using Xxxxxx and implied threats gets my
back up no end.
If you do it again I will have to cut all comm with
you. Now that I know Xxxxxx is back on purpose I
don't really care much if you stop him talking to me
or not... get it?
Please give my regards to Helen, I hear she is doing
fantastic work.
All the best,

Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:04:59 -0000

Dear Xxxxxx
I don't use implied threats or threats only facts so lets look at them.

Since you blew you have shown absolutely no intention to handle your situation. You know the policies on this.

Your earlier e-mails were very social and it is good to hear your news but frankly your sweet comments are not what is needed or wanted to turn this situation around right now. What we need to see is some action in the physical Universe towards handling your cycle.

Your declare is long overdue and that it hasn't been done already is an oversight. Also being totally truthful the fact that cycle hasn't been pushed through out of some consideration for Xxxxxx. That is a fact not a veiled threat.

Quite frankly your e-mail shows me that the cycle is further south than I had thought so I am passing a copy of your e-mail to HCO. I am going to wait 14 days before I write to HCO saying that there is no intention on your part
to handle the situation. They will have to action it from their end and unfortunatley Xxxxxx will have to confront the issness of what he is dealing with.

I don't expect you will admit that this means anything to you but some where on the way down the ethics gradients we will find the right one. The rest is up to you it is your family and your eternity.

As regards eternity you will be in it. How you want it to be and what condition you want to be in is up to you and that is the decision you are making right now. My earnest advice to you is don't make it on some reaction
or misemotion or take it lightly. I can see from your e-mail that I am not doing you or your situation any favours by avoiding it or alowing it to go unconfronted any longer.

ML Mark Goddard

Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:11:34 -0800 (PST)

I see your true colours have finaly shown.

Also, you have taken NO notice of what I have told you
about my financial situation.
It's really a shame. I hope you are also sending a
copy of the emails you have written to me with mine,
you need some handling.
I will not be in contact with you personaly again.
best regards,

Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:04:59 -0000

My true colors have never been anything other than nailed firmly to the mast as far as I am aware.

Yes a copy of my E-mails will also be sent to HCO.

Also I know that you have put this on Xxxxxxs lines and a seperate report has been written on that to HCO.

Anyway I come back to the original message of my original e-mail I want you to start doing something towards your bill. Just something that shows a serious intention in the physical universe to handle your situation. If I receive it in the next 12 days ( original 14 days minus the weekend ) I
will report to HCO that you are taking steps to handle if I dont I will report that you are not.

Please do not ignore it or think that this somehow won't happen because it will. Your cycle is being looked at. I am not trying to make trouble for you as you obviusly think I am but am actually trying to help you to avoid it.

There is not really much point in any other comm except if you need any help on it logistically let me know.

Much love

Mark Goddard
Organisation Executive Secretary Plymouth.

Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:57:11 -0800 (PST)

I see you have calmed down a bit... you should deal
with whatever charge you have with regard me. What
did you do to me? Was it one of your mistakes that
messed up my case? I have to wonder now.
If you care to see what you are saying, the only
possible action you think I should take that means
anything is to give you money. Well, that action
unfortunatelly is impossible, I have no work visa in
the USA and make absolutelly no money. In fact, I even
have to ask for money for the most basic things like
sanitary pads etc. I have told you this before,
something you have not bothered to register.
As no other action is meaninful to you, then there is
nothing much I can help you with.
Oh, I hope you send this email to HCO also, please
tell them that the new President of Chile, a family
friend, now has a copy of Dianetics and also the
booklet on Human Rights, and the Minister of Education
is looking at the Basic Study Manual. The President
knows all about Xxxxxx and his going back to work for
these goals in Plymouth.
I can take actions, even without money, your small
view of "the only action I can take" is irrelevant and
untrue. These are only examples, work done in the
background using my family's influence in high places.
If I am declared, it is totally irrelevant, the rest
of the world knows nothing about declarations, and as
far as the books being used in Education etc. in
Chile, you can't stop that by declaring me, the books
speak for themselves.
As to Xxxxxx I hope you put in your report what I said
to him, that as long as he stays on purpose what
happens between us is of no consequence. My comm with
my son is honest, we do not hold secrets from each
other... you are the one who brought him into the
matter in the first place. If you didn't want this on
his lines, you should not have brought him into it.


Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:03:56 -0000

Dear Xxxxxx

Great on the things you have done to promote Scientology I will make sure that that data goes to HCO with the rest of the data.

Yes as far as I know exactly what you said to Xxxxxx has gone to HCO as well. I don't know what was said or what is in the report if you would like to add anything to it then you should write a report to HCO yourself.

The point I really want to get across is that some movement towards handling your situation of blowing from staff is what is needed to avoid the inevitable declare if we can't show that you are actually trying to handle this situation.

You are right that the money isn't the only thing which could be done.
The other is to come back and complete the routing form. I thought that with the pregnancy and wedding etc. the money is something which you could show some movement on right now and this would be easier for you. Something really does need to happen now because the cycle is being looked at by HCO and they will need tangible evidence of something so they dont have to issue a declare.

We have got about 11 days now from my original date. I await your response with something tangible in the physical universe.

Much love
Mark goddard
O. E. S. Ply

THE ONLY INFORMATION THE PRESIDENT AND OTHER MINISTERS RECEIVED WERE THAT ... NOTHING ACTUALLY, I never bothered to tell them anything about the church except that my son had managed to stay off drugs there and better the pan than the fire, but I wouldn't recommend it to any sane person.
Hey, what do you know, I used to speak scientologeese!


Silver Meritorious Patron
[edit:copied from original thread]

While reading about people's experiences with the SO I remembered one particular SO member who stayed with me while I was in staff at Plymouth, Tim Knowles. I think he was about 21 at the time.
Tim arrived at the org as FBO [financial bureau office]. At first he lived in a house where some other scinetologists lived. One day I arrived at the org to find him unshaven and smelling of sweat, looking tired and sleepy, coming out of the FBO office.
I asked him if he was ok, he told me that he was ok but that he found it hard to sleep on the office floor.
It turned out he had ran out of money and had no where to live as he could no longer pay the rent at the place he was staying.
Being a mother I could not allow this young kid to live like that so I gave him my house keys and told him to go and have a shower and that he could stay in my living room until he could pay for somewhere better to live.

He stayed with me for a few months and then one day he was ordered back to Saint Hill.
I learned he was in the RPF. A few months later he arrived in Plymouth and collected his possessions from the org and then we went to my house and he collected his things from there as well. He wouldn't tell me why he wasn't coming back or what he was doing next.
I later learned that he had left the SO, he told them he had taken LSD at some point in the past and was routed out.

I am mentioning this because I felt that the way he was treated as a staff member was not right. Also because at the time no one would tell me where this kid was or why I could not talk to him anymore or try to find if he was doing ok.

People disappear from orgs or lines all the time and there is a unspoken hush about where they have gone or what happened to them. The only time everyone will be talking about someone who left is when they have been decleared and then they are slandered no end.

I also remember once that I saw the HAS open a letter and a check for £10 come out of it. I made a comment about how good it was to get it and I was told that it was from a freeloader who had betrayed the org and all the staff.... I remember making a mental note that if I left I would not pay "my freeloader" bill.


Patron with Honors
Hihi Lns. I just wanted to let you know that what Mark was doing is a combination of passive-agressive arguments (Ex: Mentioning what you do will affect your friend) and guilt tripping. It's often a successful way to play upon a person's sympathies. I am glad you resisted it.


Gold Meritorious Patron

I impressed with your original story when you originally posted.

I am very sorry to hear about your daughter's experience on here. I don't think I spotted that happening. She is quite right and it is wonderful that she can maintain her boundaries.

Please tell her that she is welcome to post on here whenever she wants. Hopefully if she does so again she will get the responses and support that is appropriate for her.

Unfortunately dropping the Hubbard indoctrination is often a slow process and sometimes people don't realise the effect they are having on others. I suppose we are all guilty of that at some time or another. The process can often be difficult and sometimes we let ourselves down.

Generally, ESMB is a very supportive environment. I am sorry if any of us let you and your daughter down.


Silver Meritorious Patron

Generally, ESMB is a very supportive environment. I am sorry if any of us let you and your daughter down.

Thanks LH.

No one has let me down but I can see how that could be interpreted from my first post on this thread. I suppose I was a bit pissed off about my daughter not finding a supportive environment too, but hell, we are very different people and I have found this board very helpful and healing - and "healing" is something I am not finished with.

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Thanks LH.

No one has let me down but I can see how that could be interpreted from my first post on this thread. I suppose I was a bit pissed off about my daughter not finding a supportive environment too, but hell, we are very different people and I have found this board very helpful and healing - and "healing" is something I am not finished with.

LNS I do understand. It took quite a while lurking and tentatively posting for me to feel comfortable here (and now look at what's happened!) and if I had the same experience as your daughter I doubt I would have stayed.

There are no excuses for bad behaviour, I just endeavour to promote understanding of our differences while healing takes place, if possible. Sometimes it's not, unfortunately.

God, sometimes these stories still make me cry. The injustice, the insanity, the betrayal. The story of Tim for example. I knew so many like that, particularly the early days at Saint Hill. Please keep telling them!


Patron Meritorious
yeah, it's too bad her thread got so out of control. T.I. is pissed about something, but it's not that scientology is being protested. s/he is pissed about severe social injustice and interference from the government in family affairs. That is valid, but I think her anger was maniacally misdirected at your daughter. I wish t.i. would take that passion to try to rally others for the cause s/he believes in so vehemently.

so scientology isn't the most important cause on Earth (Scientologist would have you think otherwise hahaha) but maybe this is a step in the right direction toward future protests. It seems that many Anonymous members have shifted their fun and games to recognizing malfeasance and standing with us ex-members who have been pretty beat down. I welcome Anonymous to this movement and I am grateful for the wind in our sails. ONWARD!


Silver Meritorious Patron
Hihi Lns. I just wanted to let you know that what Mark was doing is a combination of passive-agressive arguments (Ex: Mentioning what you do will affect your friend) and guilt tripping. It's often a successful way to play upon a person's sympathies. I am glad you resisted it.

I've been thinking a lot about your insight on this. Passive aggressive behaviour is very tricky to spot. I am only recently learning about it. Up to now I had only seen the fact that Mark was threatening to "declare" me and thus forcing my son to cut comm with me to get the money, but you are right. There was a lot more going on, the "I and all your other friends won't play with you anymore and will be very hurt unless you give me all your money" is now very clear as well... ooooh!!! This is so new to me!! Thank you!!!


Silver Meritorious Patron
Tony Harris was in charge of the Purif when I worked at Plymouth Org. As far as I know is still a staff member there.

If it wasn’t for Tony, I would probably be on staff.
He was a good friend to me at the time and we were a couple on and off while I was there. He was the most loyal person I have ever met, and this was his downfall with regard being a staff member. He often would tell me the years, months and days he had left on staff and couldn’t wait to be out of there, but he had signed a contract and as a loyal person he would honor that contract.

One day he told me that he was afraid that Scientology was evil. When I asked him to explain, he quoted from “The Count of Monte Cristo”, he said that in this book there was a tale of how men would be captured and drugged. They would wake up in a palace with beautiful young women, food, “special brew” and everything they could ever dream to have. They were told that they were in fact in heaven. After a while in this place, the young men would be told they had to go back to earth to carry out something or other and as soon as they did it, they could return to heaven. If they did not carry our the orders, the men could not return.
Tony felt that Scientology might be like that.

At the time it fascinated me that he could feel this way about something he was so adamant in continuing to support.

Once he also told me not to give the church any more money ( I had already donated over £3000 for the Qual library and for renovations), he told me that I was all alone in the world and that no one in the church would help me or support me if I was ever in need.

This man would work full time at the Org and then he would work night shifts at another location to pay his mortgage and other bills. He probably still does. Plus he would stay at the Org overnight sometimes to make sure no one broke into it. I am not sure about other orgs but at Plymouth the men have to take turns at staying at the Org overnight so that it is never left empty.

Even with this level of loyalty and dedication the auditing and processes he had paid for were never finished.

Tony sent me a disconnection letter in 2005.

If he ever read this I want him to know that he was the best friend I had ever had. Although we had nothing in common, except a few other lifetimes as friends, he was truly an angel at a point in my life that I needed an angel more than anything in the world.

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'll put my 2 cents in. I liked your posts. Personally, Mark is just 1.1 (if you want to use Scn terms). I've never understood the psych terms - passive-aggressive or others. Or in my language - he's an arse. (Yes, I'm an American that speaks British.)

Terril park

yeah, it's too bad her thread got so out of control. T.I. is pissed about something, but it's not that scientology is being protested. s/he is pissed about severe social injustice and interference from the government in family affairs. That is valid, but I think her anger was maniacally misdirected at your daughter. I wish t.i. would take that passion to try to rally others for the cause s/he believes in so vehemently.


TI is my friend. She walks the walk. And is very outspoken.
LNS is a friend. ( I believe) .

I believe they could form a good relationship despite all
flung insults.

Was so entertaining to watch. :)

Was passion.

Anon_Kate goes for you also.

Love you all.


Silver Meritorious Patron
TI is my friend. She walks the walk. And is very outspoken.
LNS is a friend. ( I believe) .

I believe they could form a good relationship despite all
flung insults.

Was so entertaining to watch. :)

Was passion.

Anon_Kate goes for you also.

Love you all.

Kind of Mud Wresting fun to watch? You naughty man you.
Actually, TI would not engage me in the discussion and I was very gently in my posts... promise :D
But I doubt I could be friends with her as I am not into hand holding or walking on eggshells for the benefit of others anymore.


Patron Meritorious
A really fantasic body of work is called "non-violent communication" by marshall rosenburg. I think it should be called "compassionate listening" great work, anyone who wants to communicate better should read/listen to the tapes. I promise he wont try to sell you a bridge either...

Terril park

Kind of Mud Wresting fun to watch? You naughty man you.
Actually, TI would not engage me in the discussion and I was very gently in my posts... promise :D
But I doubt I could be friends with her as I am not into hand holding or walking on eggshells for the benefit of others anymore.

I get on fine with you both.

You are describing her IMO.

It seems my mission is to bring people together.

I never stop trying. Well rarely. Mostly focussed
on FZ people.

But anyone really.

I like the aikido way of " Mud wrestl;ing." :)


Silver Meritorious Patron
I'll put my 2 cents in. I liked your posts. Personally, Mark is just 1.1 (if you want to use Scn terms). I've never understood the psych terms - passive-aggressive or others. Or in my language - he's an arse. (Yes, I'm an American that speaks British.)


Yes, you are correct.

It's interesting that he was very careful in his words and never actually committed to saying that my son would be told to disconnect. It was simply implied.
Mark and Tony Harris (from the post later on) were very close friends, they actually worked together in their "moonlighting" job.
The email exchange with Mark and the letter of disconnection from Tony came very close together. At the time I felt that seeing as Mark could not put pressure on my son to disconnect with me, he manipulated Tony to do so.