A question on BT's

nonoperating_thetan

Admiring daisies...
I have a question that is probably pretty basic, but I just like to try and understand as much as possible about the theories and explanations of processes and tech that I can. In OT III, when body thetans are being audited away and you are in essence "releasing" a body thetan or cluster of BT's from yourself--where do they supposedly go? Are they destroyed in running the incidents against them, or are they re-released to possibly re-attach to some other poor soul? If this were the case, it would seem that running processes to clear them from one person and just have them show up on someone else would be working against LRH's goals of bettering mankind...just saying. I was wondering what the end result was supposed to be...

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity :)
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
I have a question that is probably pretty basic, but I just like to try and understand as much as possible about the theories and explanations of processes and tech that I can. In OT III, when body thetans are being audited away and you are in essence "releasing" a body thetan or cluster of BT's from yourself--where do they supposedly go? Are they destroyed in running the incidents against them, or are they re-released to possibly re-attach to some other poor soul? If this were the case, it would seem that running processes to clear them from one person and just have them show up on someone else would be working against LRH's goals of bettering mankind...just saying. I was wondering what the end result was supposed to be...

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity :)

According to L. Con they are "thetans" so can't be destroyed. There are no explanations given by him beyond that really. He must have run out of drugs & liquor and stopped writing about them at that points. :screwy:
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
According to L. Con they are "thetans" so can't be destroyed. There are no explanations given by him beyond that really. He must have run out of drugs & liquor and stopped writing about them at that points. :screwy:
Seems I remember something about them going back "home" or something. I wasn't in this sector when this incident happened, at least that's about all I could say to help the CS out. And yes, I got accused of being an occluded case:/
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I have a question that is probably pretty basic, but I just like to try and understand as much as possible about the theories and explanations of processes and tech that I can. In OT III, when body thetans are being audited away and you are in essence "releasing" a body thetan or cluster of BT's from yourself--where do they supposedly go? Are they destroyed in running the incidents against them, or are they re-released to possibly re-attach to some other poor soul? If this were the case, it would seem that running processes to clear them from one person and just have them show up on someone else would be working against LRH's goals of bettering mankind...just saying. I was wondering what the end result was supposed to be...

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity :)

They are sent back into the world where they then attach themselves to people who have not paid for auditing.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I have a question that is probably pretty basic, but I just like to try and understand as much as possible about the theories and explanations of processes and tech that I can. In OT III, when body thetans are being audited away and you are in essence "releasing" a body thetan or cluster of BT's from yourself--where do they supposedly go? Are they destroyed in running the incidents against them, or are they re-released to possibly re-attach to some other poor soul? If this were the case, it would seem that running processes to clear them from one person and just have them show up on someone else would be working against LRH's goals of bettering mankind...just saying. I was wondering what the end result was supposed to be...

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity :)

I think it's a great question. Hubbard's answer shows his disdain for other beings.

Hubbard said:
Body thetans are just thetans. When you get rid of one he goes off and possibly squares around, picks up a body or admires daisies. He is in fact a sort of cleared being. He cannot fail to eventually, if not at once, regain many abilities. Many have been asleep for the last 75 million years.

Hubbard, L. (1968, 4 May) Character of Body Thetans. (OT 3 Course)
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
They go shopping for havingness. After all those eons being stuck here on Teegeeak they have a lot of catching up to do. You'll find many on Rodeo Drive in Hollywood checking out the latest fashions (if you care to look).
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I think it's a great question. Hubbard's answer shows his disdain for other beings.

Great disdain! I feel that Hubbard never approached any of this material thoughtfully, and I attribute it to unattended mental health issues. Here's the logic I applied for your consideration: if a soul is 4 quadrillion years old, its experience with bodies is miniscule, almost irrelevant in the God-like thetan's existence. If anything, thetans would avoid bodies, and all the limiting crap that comes with it. It makes no sense, and Hubbard didn't bother explaining it, other than those draded between life implants, and other so-called incidents*.

*Incidents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_(Scientology)

For example, I do not find this to be a likely thing: Jack-in-the-Box

According to Hubbard, "here we have an invader trick, a method of trapping thetans." The alien invaders trick the thetans into gathering an endless loop of facsimile pictures and confusing themselves, ultimately ending in an explosion. Hubbard warns auditors, "You will find a preclear with this in restimulation to be very curious about cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes." (A History of Man, 1988 edition, pg. 98-99)

Also, science tells us that the universe is approximately 13.77 billion years old.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Great disdain! I feel that Hubbard never approached any of this material thoughtfully, and I attribute it to unattended mental health issues. Here's the logic I applied for your consideration: if a soul is 4 quadrillion years old, its experience with bodies is miniscule, almost irrelevant in the God-like thetan's existence. If anything, thetans would avoid bodies, and all the limiting crap that comes with it. It makes no sense, and Hubbard didn't bother explaining it, other than those draded between life implants, and other so-called incidents*.

*Incidents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_(Scientology)

For example, I do not find this to be a likely thing: Jack-in-the-Box

According to Hubbard, "here we have an invader trick, a method of trapping thetans." The alien invaders trick the thetans into gathering an endless loop of facsimile pictures and confusing themselves, ultimately ending in an explosion. Hubbard warns auditors, "You will find a preclear with this in restimulation to be very curious about cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes." (A History of Man, 1988 edition, pg. 98-99)

Also, science tells us that the universe is approximately 13.77 billion years old.

I think that Jerry Seinfeld was dramatizing this engram when he wrote his episode that involved a coffee table book with pictures of coffee tables.
 

OhMG

Patron Meritorious
Also, science tells us that the universe is approximately 13.77 billion years old.

Actually, it doesn't. It is pure guesswork. We can't even currently measure distances from Earth >~40 L.Y.'s with accuracy. We don't even know how the universe started. So, throw any universe age data in the circular file as far as considering it probable.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Non-op: I have not read the responses - but there is no such thing as "body thetans"! Nothing scientifically proven by Hubbard or Scientology anywhere.

What it is - mind fucking - and if the person believes they are there - it can get very, very dangerous based on the number of OT's that have committed suicide and gotten very ill!!

Scientology is nothing to play around with - this is your mind and it needs to be guarded and protected by you. Garbage in...garbage out!
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
According to Hubbard, "here we have an invader trick, a method of trapping thetans." The alien invaders trick the thetans into gathering an endless loop of facsimile pictures and confusing themselves, ultimately ending in an explosion. Hubbard warns auditors, "You will find a preclear with this in restimulation to be very curious about cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes which have pictures of cereal boxes." (A History of Man, 1988 edition, pg. 98-99)

Oh that explains it ^^^^ OMG - now I know why I liked to eat cereal as a kid and read the box of cereal about the cereal I was eating and the prize it may contain!!
LINE CHARGE!! VGI's!! Floating Tone Arm....thank you sir!

I had a WIN and it was FREE!!! Don't tell Miscavige please - can I have this one win w/o refinancing my house? Hip Hip Hooray!!


Also, science tells us that the universe is approximately 13.77 billion years old.[/QUOTE]


Exactly! ^^^ that is why we need the Idle Morgues and butt loads of $$$$$$$$$...cuz El Con has gone to Target II to handle this ...science has it all wrong and are "occluded" cases - Hubbturd will handle "science" when he returns to Bonneyville at the Int base as long as there is fresh shrimp, corn fed lamb from Australia and lots of good scotch waiting for him. Oh, yeah - don't forget the KOOLS!!
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Actually, it doesn't. It is pure guesswork. We can't even currently measure distances from Earth >~40 L.Y.'s with accuracy. We don't even know how the universe started. So, throw any universe age data in the circular file as far as considering it probable.

I wasn't addressing what you personally think, but what the science community agrees on. You could start with this, if it appeals to you: http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_age.html

Measurements by the WMAP satellite can help determine the age of the universe. The detailed structure of the cosmic microwave background fluctuations depends on the current density of the universe, the composition of the universe and its expansion rate. As of 2013, WMAP determined these parameters with an accuracy of better than than 1.5%. In turn, knowing the composition with this precision, we can estimate the age of the universe to about 0.4%: 13.77 ± 0.059 billion years!

How does WMAP data enable us to determine the age of the universe is 13.77 billion years, with an uncertainty of only 0.4%? The key to this is that by knowing the composition of matter and energy density in the universe, we can use Einstein's General Relativity to compute how fast the universe has been expanding in the past. With that information, we can turn the clock back and determine when the universe had "zero" size, according to Einstein. The time between then and now is the age of the universe. There is one caveat to keep in mind that affects the certainty of the age determination: we assume that the universe is flat, which is well supported by WMAP and other data. If we relax this assumption within the allowed range, the uncertainty increase a bit. Inflation naturally predicts a very nearly flat universe.

The expansion age measured by WMAP is larger than the oldest globular clusters, so the Big Bang theory has passed an important test using data independent of the type collected by WMAP. If the expansion age measured by WMAP had been smaller than the oldest globular clusters, then there would have been something fundamentally wrong about either the Big Bang theory or the theory of stellar evolution. Either way, astronomers would have needed to rethink many of their cherished ideas. But our current estimate of age fits well with what we know from other kinds of measurements.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well 13.7 billion is not very long in the annals of eternity. What the hell was going on before that?

Perhaps science has yet to find that they are looking at only a pocket of the universe and if and when they find that magic door and open it they will find 4 quadrillion more years of universe.

But time is an illusion, we are the big bang. Silly scientists
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
. . . <SNIP> . . . Also, science tells us that the universe is approximately 13.77 billion years old.

Pffft . . . what would science know?

L Ron Hubbard said:
. . . The Time Track is a very accurate record of the pc's past, very accurately timed, very obedient to the auditor. If motion picture film were 3D, had 52 perceptions and could fully react upon the observer, the Time Track could be called a motion picture film. It is at least 350,000,000,000,000 years long, probably much longer . . .

HCOB 15 MAY AD13 THE TIME TRACK 1 ENGRAM RUNNING BY CHAINS
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Well 13.7 billion is not very long in the annals of eternity. What the hell was going on before that?

Perhaps science has yet to find that they are looking at only a pocket of the universe and if and when they find that magic door and open it they will find 4 quadrillion more years of universe.

But time is an illusion, we are the big bang. Silly scientists

I say this compassionately and lovingly, but when one abandons the best information in favor of a drug fueled madman bent on power who claims to be a soul time traveler to times long long before the universe was said to be born, I have to say that I feel sorry for you. I mean that sincerely.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Despite Hubbard's description of them as small and insignificant, he then went on to describe how the Helatrobans were responsible for a particularly vicious set of largely undefined "implants", such as the Heaven Implants, which were given some 43 trillion years ago. Hubbard claimed that the human belief in heaven was in itself an alien implant to our minds. (SHSBC tapes 294, 295 and 300 - #s 6305C21, 6305C23 and 6306C11)

The people of Helatrobus were responsible for implanting what Hubbard called the Gorilla Goals, a series of implants created "between about 319 trillion years ago to about 256 trillion trillion years ago" (or 89 trillion trillion years ago, according to a different Hubbard lecture). ("Routine 3N: Line Plots", HCOB 14 July 1963)

Hubbard also discoursed on yet another set of "Helatrobus Implants" which he said occurred some "382 trillion years ago to 52 trillion years ago". The Helatrobans were motivated by a fear of free thetans and sought to restrain them by capturing and brainwashing thetans in order to weaken them. In a series of lectures, Hubbard goes into some detail about how this was done:

Large Magellanic Cloud


"Planets were surrounded suddenly by radioactive cloud masses. And very often a long time before the planet came under attack from these implant people, waves of radioactive clouds, Magellanic clouds, black and gray, would sweep over and engulf the planet, and it would be living in an atmosphere of radioactivity, which was highly antipathetic to the living beings, bodies, plants, anything else that was on this planet. And so planetary systems would become engulfed in radioactive masses, gray and black. And the earmarks of such a planetary action was gray and black – gray towering masses of clouds. These Magellanic clouds would not otherwise have come anywhere near a planetary system."
("State of OT")

When a planet had been engulfed, the Helatrobans would attack it with "little orange-colored bombs that would talk" and the clouds themselves would talk: "And here you'd have a gray cloud going by and it'd be saying, 'Hark! Hark! Hark!' you see? 'Watch out! Look out! Who's there? Who's that?'"

Hapless people on the planet's surface would be kidnapped using a small capsule "placed at will in space. It shot out a large bubble, the being would grab at the bubble or strike at it and be sucked at once into the capsule. Then the capsule would be retracted into an aircraft." A victim would then be implanted for up to six months and the Helatrobans would "fix him on a post in a big bunch of stuff ... put him on a post and wobbled him around and ran him through this implant of goals on a little monowheel [sic]. Little monowheel pole trap. And it had the effigy of a body on it." ("State of OT")

O REALLY?
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Well 13.7 billion is not very long in the annals of eternity. What the hell was going on before that?

Perhaps science has yet to find that they are looking at only a pocket of the universe and if and when they find that magic door and open it they will find 4 quadrillion more years of universe.

But time is an illusion, we are the big bang. Silly scientists

Just in case the scientists get confused about all this, we should probably clue them in about the magic door at 1 quad.

Hubbard said:
If you get several misconceptions it gets really tangled up. One we handled had more than one cluster, the earlier cluster thought it was the later cluster, and the later cluster thought it was the earlier cluster. The earlier cluster was from C.C. Implant around I Quad in the universe before this one (which is now in the Dark Horse nebula in Orion) so they thought their universe (location) had disappeared, they were lost in time and place.

Hubbard, L. (1978, 22 September) NOTs Series 5 Misconceptions

darkhorse-nebula.jpg
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Just in case the scientists get confused about all this, we should probably clue them in about the magic door at 1 quad.



darkhorse-nebula.jpg

Critics have noted many scientific implausibilities connected with the story of Helatrobus. Peter Forde's paper "A Scientific Scrutiny of OT III" (which also covers Scientologists' belief in the ancient galactic ruler Xenu) analyzes the matter in detail.

Contrary to Hubbard's statements, the Magellanic Clouds are in fact dwarf galaxies seemingly orbiting our own Milky Way, and are not clouds at all in any atmospheric sense. However, in many of Hubbard's lectures, the term 'Magellanic Clouds' is often employed as a colloquialism for 'interstellar nebula'.

He spoke of many areas in which he was utterly clueless.
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have a question that is probably pretty basic, but I just like to try and understand as much as possible about the theories and explanations of processes and tech that I can. In OT III, when body thetans are being audited away and you are in essence "releasing" a body thetan or cluster of BT's from yourself--where do they supposedly go? Are they destroyed in running the incidents against them, or are they re-released to possibly re-attach to some other poor soul? If this were the case, it would seem that running processes to clear them from one person and just have them show up on someone else would be working against LRH's goals of bettering mankind...just saying. I was wondering what the end result was supposed to be...

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity :)

First of all there are no such things as BTs and Clusters. There is you and me and the rest of us. Hubbard made these things up and like so much of the rest of his "science" it is something that he created so that you, me, and the rest of us could pay a lot of money to the Church of Scientology. There is no wall of fire. There is no Incident 1. There is no tooth fairy, Easter bunny, Santa Clause, and there is no bogeyman.
 
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