a rant directed at some ex-SO

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
And I am going to vent to my friends.

I am, to be honest, heartily sick of people on Scientology message boards commenting on about how they did "amazing things" on the Apollo or in the Sea Org and expressing mutual admiration about a "bunch of kids on the Bridge". Or how much "fun" we all had "along with the abuse of course".

It seems to me that in light of yesterday being veterans day I was very tempted to post some simple facts about, for example, the US Navy - where 19 year olds routinely catapult multi-million dollar airplanes off the moving decks of aircraft carriers, the average age of the INSTRUCTORS at Top Gun is 26, and while the Apollo was busy swanning around and bumping into quays and whatever 18 year old Marines were hiking for miles going without sleep and fighting determined enemies in jungle conditions. Young people around the world did amazing things while we were busily wrapped up in the cult.

The problem I have I guess is that there seems to be this idea among certain people (some sort of hang over from the SO I guess) that we did things that were exceptional - it's not that some of the things done were not good but compared to what other young people were doing in the real world - it was not exceptional in the least.


Thanks for listening, rant over,
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
And I am going to vent to my friends.

I am, to be honest, heartily sick of people on Scientology message boards commenting on about how they did "amazing things" on the Apollo or in the Sea Org and expressing mutual admiration about a "bunch of kids on the Bridge". Or how much "fun" we all had "along with the abuse of course".

It seems to me that in light of yesterday being veterans day I was very tempted to post some simple facts about, for example, the US Navy - where 19 year olds routinely catapult multi-million dollar airplanes off the moving decks of aircraft carriers, the average age of the INSTRUCTORS at Top Gun is 26, and while the Apollo was busy swanning around and bumping into quays and whatever 18 year old Marines were hiking for miles going without sleep and fighting determined enemies in jungle conditions. Young people around the world did amazing things while we were busily wrapped up in the cult.

The problem I have I guess is that there seems to be this idea among certain people (some sort of hang over from the SO I guess) that we did things that were exceptional - it's not that some of the things done were not good but compared to what other young people were doing in the real world - it was not exceptional in the least.


Thanks for listening, rant over,


I went from USN to SCN. When invited to join the SO and go to the ship, I was experienced enough on the high seas to give an emphatic, "No."

Six years in Uncle Sam's Navy, out by the time I was 25. It was and is a real Navy, nothing like Uncle Ronnie's pretend Navy with pretentious, self-important, wacko goals and responsibilities. That's not to say the USN ever did nothing but good, and the SCN ever did nothing but bad. I am just saying...

Young folks don't move into positions of responsibility without support. In the military that includes pay, not a lot, but enough to buy basic stuff needed or wanted. It even includes real leadership, uncensored letters from home, no censuring of one's "2D" except for the crazy "don't ask, don't tell," workable work hours almost like a civilian job, except when under fire in a battle zone, and much more.

Good rant, Mick.
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
Indeed

indeed, fortunatly, I missed the Apollo madness - buch of people, mainly kids, with little life experience being ordered around by a self-obsessed madman. Was not much different by the time I joined up, I, a dumb, naive and confused kid, prancing about in a pretend naval uniform, becomming a prendtend officer (how foolishly self congratulary I was) being told exactly what to do, when and precisly how to do it and then told what to think about the action therafter. Not exactly something to be proud of.

Mick Wenlock has a formidable ability to cut through BS. Here is a guy that got out of the cult with his sanity intact. He made a new life with his family in a new country under some very difficult circumstances, as have so many of the ex SO people I have come to know and respect, the odds were well stacked against them. Now That is something to be proud of.
 
Wow, this struck a nerve. Normally I lurk around here (I enjoy reading this stuff, more than you know.) This business with Emma and a few other things makes me want to chime in.

I was in the US Navy too, when I was in my early 20s. I was OLD compared to many people I served with. these "kids" and I would do twenty amazing things before breakfast and that is no lie. If you've even seen a US Navy underway replenishment, you'd understand what I mean. We repaired and operated high tech weapon systems. We also learned basic seamanship and vessel handling.

That said, when I look at the Sea Org, I see a group of people who can't even be trusted to operate their tiny cruse ship. It's my understanding that they have Carnaval Cruse Lines actually do the squid-work on the vessel, (please corect me if I'm wrong.) While the Sea Org people do psychological training and counselling on their "guests."

Wait - WTF!! Psychology is like five times more complicated than seamanship. If they can't even park that rusty car ferry of theirs... what business do they have messing with people's minds?
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Good points. One thing to keep in mind is that the US Navy "kids" get multimillion dollar training programs, and operate hundred-million dollar vessels under experienced command of people who weren't relieved for firing on an unpopulated island.

Given the environment that the SO "kids" were operating in, and whose orders they were following, I find it amazing that they didn't end up in Moby Dick's belly.
 
Good points. One thing to keep in mind is that the US Navy "kids" get multimillion dollar training programs, and operate hundred-million dollar vessels under experienced command of people who weren't relieved for firing on an unpopulated island.

Given the environment that the SO "kids" were operating in, and whose orders they were following, I find it amazing that they didn't end up in Moby Dick's belly.


I thought some of them did! :eyeroll:
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
And I am going to vent to my friends.

I am, to be honest, heartily sick of people on Scientology message boards commenting on about how they did "amazing things" on the Apollo or in the Sea Org and expressing mutual admiration about a "bunch of kids on the Bridge". Or how much "fun" we all had "along with the abuse of course".

It seems to me that in light of yesterday being veterans day I was very tempted to post some simple facts about, for example, the US Navy - where 19 year olds routinely catapult multi-million dollar airplanes off the moving decks of aircraft carriers, the average age of the INSTRUCTORS at Top Gun is 26, and while the Apollo was busy swanning around and bumping into quays and whatever 18 year old Marines were hiking for miles going without sleep and fighting determined enemies in jungle conditions. Young people around the world did amazing things while we were busily wrapped up in the cult.

The problem I have I guess is that there seems to be this idea among certain people (some sort of hang over from the SO I guess) that we did things that were exceptional - it's not that some of the things done were not good but compared to what other young people were doing in the real world - it was not exceptional in the least.


Thanks for listening, rant over,

You really could use a course in Human Behavior & Lifespan Psychology (the latter required for entry into medical and nursing school). You're very outspoken & forthright in many of your posts about the cult's abuses, but you tend to insult those that have been caught up in the mindfuck.

The idealism found in young people (who want to work for a better world) have always provided the impetus for cults to exist & prosper, and there are many, large & small, outside of Scientology.

Rick Ross & Steve Hassan are two formidable cult experts (Steve being a former Moonie) who have been targeted by OSA in the past who are always providing links to cult activity on their Twitters:

http://twitter.com/rickalanross

http://twitter.com/cultexpert
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
You really could use a course in Human Behavior & Lifespan Psychology (the latter required for entry into medical and nursing school). You're very outspoken & forthright in many of your posts about the cult's abuses, but you tend to insult those that have been caught up in the mindfuck.

The idealism found in young people (who want to work for a better world) have always provided the impetus for cults to exist & prosper, and there are many, large & small, outside of Scientology.

Rick Ross & Steve Hassan are two formidable cult experts (Steve being a former Moonie) who have been targeted by OSA in the past who are always providing links to cult activity on their Twitters:

http://twitter.com/rickalanross

http://twitter.com/cultexpert


well thats real nice and all, but seriously - I don't give a fuck what you think.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Good points. One thing to keep in mind is that the US Navy "kids" get multimillion dollar training programs, and operate hundred-million dollar vessels under experienced command of people who weren't relieved for firing on an unpopulated island.

Given the environment that the SO "kids" were operating in, and whose orders they were following, I find it amazing that they didn't end up in Moby Dick's belly.

well I wan Arctic trawlerman before Scientology and the Sea Org and I was 20. I got three days of training and was standing watches off the coast of Iceland one month later.

I think it is a part of the entire snow job that is Scientology - because, for the most part, the people joining up were good intentioned but naive and really did not have comparable real life experience to know that what we were doing was not very exceptional and HUbbard was at pains to make it seem like it was.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
The lack of life experience really is a huge factor.

If someone were to recruit me today - even without what I know about Scientology - it would never work.

I've seen too much, worked under too many different conditions, to ever accept some of the things I was told to get me to join.

And to quit college to join staff?

No way.

When I was in college, and decided to quit to join staff - I was actually banking on the fact that the Church of Scientology would be running things on the planet by now, see, and that I would be in the cat-bird seat with all my Scientology auditor and administrative training under my belt - which was the equivalent to a Harvard MBA, by the way.

Nope. It would never work on me now.

I wonder how many still-in Scientologists have actually reviewed their thinking about what got them in - the things they were told, the things they thought they would achieve, what problems they had which they were solving by becoming a Scientologist?

Probably not many.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
There's a huge range of human experience. Some people do nothing but watch TV. Compared to that, I'm sure the Sea Org is an adventure. And if Scientology were really making superpowered Clears and OTs, it would be the greatest adventure of all.

As it is, it's not. And in this case, the Sea Org does not really compare with a real navy as an amazing adventure for young people. My impression is that this is the same story with Scientology, consistently:

If its strong claims were true, Scientology would be great. Even though they're not, Scientology is still something. But what it is, is not as good as what you can get elsewhere, if you know where to look, at a much lower cost.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
"I wonder how many still-in Scientologists have actually reviewed their thinking about what got them in - the things they were told, the things they thought they would achieve, what problems they had which they were solving by becoming a Scientologist?Probably not many. "

Lots of good posts on this thread. Many are out now. More coming out. Somewhere ( decades ) in the Truman Show it became painfully obvious this "group" wasn't taking over the world - far from it, it was - in fact - rapidly shrinking.
And was becoming more and more desparately, uh, untruthful to try to keep the show going.

And SO was never an option for me for one reason the " pay scale " was NOT something I would have ever been happy with. And I knew the EPF was not something I would ever be any part of and certainly not the RPF.

And diva that I am, I get my beauty rest every night :)
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I didn't even run into Scientology till about '84, and, that was more or less only theoretically. I had however run into dozens of *other* cults, and, while generally I was tolerant and even appreciative of them, by '84 a lot of the evil was becoming visible in CultLand. Krishna, Children of God, Synanon, Bhagwan, People's Temple... The bloom was off the rose.

But, I would say this; I'm fairly certain that even *had* I been exposed to Scientology anywhere between '63 and '84, I would *not* have even considered joining. And not because I would have known about the evil within, but because even the *claims* for Scientology would have been a dead give away. The *goals* of Scientology, even the watered down and sanitized versions suitable for Raw Meat directly *predict* the evil of Scientology. I'm still amazed at how many people wistfully look back on the 'good intentions' without recognizing the hell that was the inevitable future for the utopia.

And, I do mean inevitable.

Zinj
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I remember, back in '89, when I was first exposed, that I was not aware that Scientology was a religion. I had read Dianetics, and was going to what I thought would be the Dianetics Center. I didn't realize, at that point, that Dianetics had been subsumed within Scientology. When I got there, I thought I was in the wrong place.

I was right.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
That's a separate conversation. :) I will give you my short version answer: with regard to the claims and theory, I agree with you. With regard to the procedure, I do not.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I don't get it. What's the problem with the Apollo thread? It's really theta. Even a realist freak like me posted there. We all get to share theta wins with Ron when we were on the ship...Apparently that thread is expanding so much that there is a backlog-- because my wins (below) still hasn't posted and is "awaiting moderation"..........

---------------

Ve remember das Commodore and all zat saytuh
dat vuz in zuh saytuh univerz on das boot.

hilter-youth-mind-contol.jpg


Da vinz, yahh, ve are still having da saytuh vins
so much itz like totally vow man, mein case
izt really blowing down, yahh, from all zuh saytah.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I don't get it. What's the problem with the Apollo thread? It's really theta. Even a realist freak like me posted there. We all get to share theta wins with Ron when we were on the ship...Apparently that thread is expanding so much that there is a backlog-- because my wins (below) still hasn't posted and is "awaiting moderation"..........

---------------

Ve remember das Commodore and all zat saytuh
dat vuz in zuh saytuh univerz on das boot.

hilter-youth-mind-contol.jpg


Da vinz, yahh, ve are still having da saytuh vins
so much itz like totally vow man, mein case
izt really blowing down, yahh, from all zuh saytah.

Looking at this picture - which I think is a great picture - I realized that way back on all our tracks, as human beings, way back when we were tribal and had to hunt and kill for a living, being "brainwashed" was quite pro-survival.

You did what the chief said, you did what your parents said, you believed the tribal lore, you thought what your tribe thought, and you did not question because if you did, you might be dead real quick.

You didn't live long, and there wasn't much in the way of editorials, or commercials, or essays to think about, and decide whether or not they were delivering logically consistent arguments for you to consider.

Being "brainwashed" was your total existence. And more often than not, it ensured your survival to at least an age old enough to get laid. Looking at a tribe full of humans all acting like they are in that picture pretty much guaranteed you were looking at a tribe with plenty to eat, and plenty of whatever else was necessary to live well in that environment.

"Critical thinking" is a purely modern affair.

I like it. But it is not a genetic instinct.

In fact, I now think being "brainwashed" is.

And it also occurs to me that all you have to do is threaten people, and you can get them ready and willing to be brainwashed in a heart beat.
 
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