What's new

A Respectful Hello to ESMB from JB

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
:welcome: JB! :cheers: (and a :rose: iffin you're a wimmens) Since you are reading bunches I highly reccomend Ethercat's 'Through the Door' site, though there are a few apologists who've done the exit survey most of the 300+ participants are ex's, it gives ya a good sense of things from a different level.
Oh fwiw, I'm another never was in too, and also like to write. You'll find many fine folk here of a wide variety, noice and spicey, just the way I like my sauce :)
anyways, enjoy your visits!

:cheers:
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
:welcome: JB! :cheers: (and a :rose: iffin you're a wimmens) Since you are reading bunches I highly reccomend Ethercat's 'Through the Door' site, though there are a few apologists who've done the exit survey most of the 300+ participants are ex's, it gives ya a good sense of things from a different level.
Oh fwiw, I'm another never was in too, and also like to write. You'll find many fine folk here of a wide variety, noice and spicey, just the way I like my sauce :)
anyways, enjoy your visits!

:cheers:

:thankyou:for the recommendation to Ethercat's site - will check it out soon -- and for the beers/rose. (Yes, I'm a woman.) :cheers2:

Apparently, I'm also... a wog (who knew?) and a 'never-been-in' or 'never-in'. (<--- not sure which is the preferred descriptive term of art yet.) The nomenclature here and on other sites feels quite like learning a new language and I've caught myself (more than once) repeating words/phrases aloud as I'm reading. :ohmy: :nervous:

JB
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
:thankyou:for the recommendation to Ethercat's site - will check it out soon -- and for the beers/rose. (Yes, I'm a woman.) :cheers2:

Apparently, I'm also... a wog (who knew?) and a 'never-been-in' or 'never-in'. (<--- not sure which is the preferred descriptive term of art yet.) The nomenclature here and on other sites feels quite like learning a new language and I've caught myself (more than once) repeating words/phrases aloud as I'm reading. :ohmy: :nervous:

JB

Yup, welcome to de world of wogs lol, always makes me happy in mah pants to see another woman aboard the board as sometimes it seems there are too few *sigh* :cake: << (me foody-flirttin')
as for terminology, yikes, I've been reading scilon stuff for years now and still get stumped from time to time, no worries though, if ya ask nicely there are many who will politely explain things, and of course always a few who have little patience. Somewhere (I believe its on xenu.net and Arnie Lerma's site, probably OCMB too) there are translation 'dictionaries' for scilon>wog stuff.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to ESMB JBWriter.

I don't know why but whenever a non-ex-scientologist joins ESMB I always get a little tingle and a warm sense of hope. The more genuine caring voices that engage in open dialogue about the "scientology issue" the better!

Gosh, I feel an urge to climb up on my soap-box and let a full-blown rant fall...

It is often extraordinarily difficult to leave scientology - for many reasons. The fact that so many people here have done it and are willing to discuss it, is almost a type of miracle. I have so much respect and genuine love for my fellow ESMB posters. Many have lost so much and have pain which is almost impossible to find the words to describe - in any language! Still they share, still they support others, still they find a way to laugh. Spectacular bunch of people when you really step back and take in the big picture.

The scientology experience is, imho, unique. The waking up and leaving is also an unique intense experience. To be able to safely share this, with others that can truly sit quietly and "hold ya hand" and offer some genuine "been-there-done-that-know-what-you-are-on-about" support is worth more than I can express. I am aware there are probably worse things in life than being spiritually betrayed and treated like some sort of camouflaged glorified slave. Having said that I firmly believe that the traumatic experience of spiritual betrayal, mixed in with some mind-bending mental crap, needs to be recognised for what it is if society is to evolve in a caring manner. And yes, I really mean that.

The scientology system is abusive. No matter how many glossy PR lines are dished out by the cult or how much spin Hubbard/scientology apologists rattle on about. No matter how much verbose bullying lawyers throw their weight around with their fancy hollow threats, the cult of scientology is abusive. Like other formerly hidden - and protected by codes of silence - abuses in our communities (e.g. incest, domestic abuse) it is time we all said "enough! These codes of silence need to be broken! Turn on the lights! Voices speak!" ESMB, to me, is an empowering venue, providing a safe place for folk to find their voices and be heard.

ESMB is therefore, imho, a vital and highly important message (cyber) board which contains some of the most powerful stories and robust discussions on the subject of scientology and the issue of abusive controlling groups. We're sort of like a bruised, battle weary bunch of "been there, done that" folk that are breaking the code of silence which the cult of scientology would just love to remain silent - and ignored.

Great to have you here! Enjoy wading in and getting into some discussions. :)

I'm elegantly climbing off my soap box now. :eyeroll: :)
 

tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron
^^^^(My bold above)
:thumbsup: :coolwink::eyeroll: Happy to let s/he/it have ALL the attention, frankly, but WOW! ESMB-members have incredible stores of tolerance. :clap:

(secular) Amen to that :thumbsup:



It's somewhat akin to finding out that there was another, parallel history hidden from textbooks/view -- which, rightly or wrongly, exponentially 'ups' the fascination factor to those with a curious mind. Mixed in with the discoveries, of course, are honest pangs of outrage, sorrow, celebration, condemnation, and not a few vulgar expressions as I read/watch assorted personal accounts/descriptions.

From one wog to another - this is highly compelling stuff (and I in no way mean to trivialise the subject matter)! Family members and colleagues DO NOT understand the fascination.

:welcome:
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Welcome to ESMB JBWriter.

I don't know why but whenever a non-ex-scientologist joins ESMB I always get a little tingle and a warm sense of hope. The more genuine caring voices that engage in open dialogue about the "scientology issue" the better!

Gosh, I feel an urge to climb up on my soap-box and let a full-blown rant fall...

It is often extraordinarily difficult to leave scientology - for many reasons. The fact that so many people here have done it and are willing to discuss it, is almost a type of miracle. I have so much respect and genuine love for my fellow ESMB posters. Many have lost so much and have pain which is almost impossible to find the words to describe - in any language! Still they share, still they support others, still they find a way to laugh. Spectacular bunch of people when you really step back and take in the big picture.

The scientology experience is, imho, unique. The waking up and leaving is also an unique intense experience. To be able to safely share this, with others that can truly sit quietly and "hold ya hand" and offer some genuine "been-there-done-that-know-what-you-are-on-about" support is worth more than I can express. I am aware there are probably worse things in life than being spiritually betrayed and treated like some sort of camouflaged glorified slave. Having said that I firmly believe that the traumatic experience of spiritual betrayal, mixed in with some mind-bending mental crap, needs to be recognised for what it is if society is to evolve in a caring manner. And yes, I really mean that.

The scientology system is abusive. No matter how many glossy PR lines are dished out by the cult or how much spin Hubbard/scientology apologists rattle on about. No matter how much verbose bullying lawyers throw their weight around with their fancy hollow threats, the cult of scientology is abusive. Like other formerly hidden - and protected by codes of silence - abuses in our communities (e.g. incest, domestic abuse) it is time we all said "enough! These codes of silence need to be broken! Turn on the lights! Voices speak!" ESMB, to me, is an empowering venue, providing a safe place for folk to find their voices and be heard.

ESMB is therefore, imho, a vital and highly important message (cyber) board which contains some of the most powerful stories and robust discussions on the subject of scientology and the issue of abusive controlling groups. We're sort of like a bruised, battle weary bunch of "been there, done that" folk that are breaking the code of silence which the cult of scientology would just love to remain silent - and ignored.

Great to have you here! Enjoy wading in and getting into some discussions. :)

I'm elegantly climbing off my soap box now. :eyeroll: :)

Thank you, SallyDannce, for the kind welcome and the incredibly wise words/thoughts. :rock: (Didn't see a soap box; didn't read a rant, btw.)

As a 'non-ex-Scientologist (I am picking up a SLEW of new labels :ohmy:, lol) I'm not sure my perpective at this early stage will help anyone else, but I wholeheartedly agree with your point that open dialogue with more non-ex-scis would benefit all concerned. A dear friend who has a rather extreme view against all religions often says the phrase "tax exempt" is wrong -- he prefers "taxpayer subsidized". As I've read/reviewed the available information, one thought pops up quite often -- that there are many taxpayers in the US who would be outraged to learn such exemptions do subsidize such abusive policies/actions. Subsidized harm - even the idea is repugnant.

Just about two weeks ago I'd thought myself a reasonably well-informed person -- neither genius, nor fool -- and now I'm scrambling to catch up on a very real, very disturbing set of issues about which I knew nothing. Had I heard of Scientology? Yes, insofar as I knew it was a faith-based group started by a sci-fi writer. Beyond that, I recall reading the article about Paul Haggis in The New Yorker, but, while it was an eye-opener, nothing within the pages prompted me to seek any additional information. It was, at the time, simply an interesting article in a weekly magazine known for interesting articles. The take-away from that article was, for me: Haggis left a group that didn't want him to leave. That was it.

Now, of course, I see there's more to learn.

JB
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
Thank you, SallyDannce, for the kind welcome and the incredibly wise words/thoughts. :rock: (Didn't see a soap box; didn't read a rant, btw.)

As a 'non-ex-Scientologist (I am picking up a SLEW of new labels :ohmy:, lol) I'm not sure my perpective at this early stage will help anyone else, but I wholeheartedly agree with your point that open dialogue with more non-ex-scis would benefit all concerned. A dear friend who has a rather extreme view against all religions often says the phrase "tax exempt" is wrong -- he prefers "taxpayer subsidized". As I've read/reviewed the available information, one thought pops up quite often -- that there are many taxpayers in the US who would be outraged to learn such exemptions do subsidize such abusive policies/actions. Subsidized harm - even the idea is repugnant.

Just about two weeks ago I'd thought myself a reasonably well-informed person -- neither genius, nor fool -- and now I'm scrambling to catch up on a very real, very disturbing set of issues about which I knew nothing. Had I heard of Scientology? Yes, insofar as I knew it was a faith-based group started by a sci-fi writer. Beyond that, I recall reading the article about Paul Haggis in The New Yorker, but, while it was an eye-opener, nothing within the pages prompted me to seek any additional information. It was, at the time, simply an interesting article in a weekly magazine known for interesting articles. The take-away from that article was, for me: Haggis left a group that didn't want him to leave. That was it.

Now, of course, I see there's more to learn.

JB

In Australia we've really tightened up on the tax exemptions - now they have to show they're not just a religion but actually demonstrate that they're doing charitable work which contributes to society. I'm not sure how all that is working out, but it's so important. Scientology just bent the IRS over and said "Hello boys!"
 

Good twin

Floater
Thank you, SallyDannce, for the kind welcome and the incredibly wise words/thoughts. :rock: (Didn't see a soap box; didn't read a rant, btw.)

As a 'non-ex-Scientologist (I am picking up a SLEW of new labels :ohmy:, lol) I'm not sure my perpective at this early stage will help anyone else, but I wholeheartedly agree with your point that open dialogue with more non-ex-scis would benefit all concerned. A dear friend who has a rather extreme view against all religions often says the phrase "tax exempt" is wrong -- he prefers "taxpayer subsidized". As I've read/reviewed the available information, one thought pops up quite often -- that there are many taxpayers in the US who would be outraged to learn such exemptions do subsidize such abusive policies/actions. Subsidized harm - even the idea is repugnant.

Just about two weeks ago I'd thought myself a reasonably well-informed person -- neither genius, nor fool -- and now I'm scrambling to catch up on a very real, very disturbing set of issues about which I knew nothing. Had I heard of Scientology? Yes, insofar as I knew it was a faith-based group started by a sci-fi writer. Beyond that, I recall reading the article about Paul Haggis in The New Yorker, but, while it was an eye-opener, nothing within the pages prompted me to seek any additional information. It was, at the time, simply an interesting article in a weekly magazine known for interesting articles. The take-away from that article was, for me: Haggis left a group that didn't want him to leave. That was it.

Now, of course, I see there's more to learn.

JB

It's an odd hobby at best. Actually staying out of the web is difficult if you have a conscience.

Scientology is always worse than you think. :yes:
 

Don Crom 3rd mo can

Patron with Honors
:aliengreeting:and:welcome: JBWriter, and Happy New Year to ya. You didn't mention how long you lurked before joining but if your anything like the rest of us it wasn't long before you felt compelled to speak up and have your voice heard.

Having your voice heard..... seems to be the saving grace that is the ESMB, a place to vent, a place to lament, a place to release that repressed scream, a place to cry over the shattered dream, $cn promised the sun-moon-and stars, what we got was labor in the sun, wishing we were on the moon, and trying to hide the scars.

There will be a number of words you will have to ask the meaning/context of, that is a given, don't be shy. NO ONE HERE WILL BITE YOUR HEAD OFF or laugh/mock you for not knowing. Quite the opposite, IMO you will find care, compassion, manners, humor, and fun here.

Even as ex-$cientoligists (abbr $cn, $clio ronbots, Elron's etc) we still like exchange. Tell us about you. Tell us (if you know) how and why you never "took the bait" of organized religion regardless of flavor, what's you education, etc. (BTW, many of "us" use the $ for S because of the dollar driven nature $cn is)

Enjoy the ride, your contributions wil be valued, you are a rare bird, someone absent $cn influence/warpage. :coolwink: C-Ya DC
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
JB, a lot of info is available on the L Ron Hubbard and $cientology related video topic sections. Literally hours and hours of first hand accounts, interviews with former members, escapee's, documentaries, a whole slew of $cientology abuses and crimes exposed.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you, SallyDannce, for the kind welcome and the incredibly wise words/thoughts. :rock: (Didn't see a soap box; didn't read a rant, btw.)

As a 'non-ex-Scientologist (I am picking up a SLEW of new labels :ohmy:, lol) I'm not sure my perpective at this early stage will help anyone else, but I wholeheartedly agree with your point that open dialogue with more non-ex-scis would benefit all concerned. A dear friend who has a rather extreme view against all religions often says the phrase "tax exempt" is wrong -- he prefers "taxpayer subsidized". As I've read/reviewed the available information, one thought pops up quite often -- that there are many taxpayers in the US who would be outraged to learn such exemptions do subsidize such abusive policies/actions. Subsidized harm - even the idea is repugnant.

Just about two weeks ago I'd thought myself a reasonably well-informed person -- neither genius, nor fool -- and now I'm scrambling to catch up on a very real, very disturbing set of issues about which I knew nothing. Had I heard of Scientology? Yes, insofar as I knew it was a faith-based group started by a sci-fi writer. Beyond that, I recall reading the article about Paul Haggis in The New Yorker, but, while it was an eye-opener, nothing within the pages prompted me to seek any additional information. It was, at the time, simply an interesting article in a weekly magazine known for interesting articles. The take-away from that article was, for me: Haggis left a group that didn't want him to leave. That was it.

Now, of course, I see there's more to learn.

JB

Hey JB,

Scientology is like a culture. It is rigged with language which creates thought-stopping.  Layer upon layer of these words are built up to create patterned behaviour.  You do not need fences or walls to control a human being – you simply install mentally controlling concepts, built with cleverly loaded words/language. At its simplest level you can just repeat enough times to a child “you are an ugly little toad” and you’ll get a child who believes they are an ugly little toad.  

One of the  key aspects of deprogramming an individual is to gradually remove those words from the persons thinking.  Scientology is unique in that Hubbard developed an extensive vocabulary where he redefined many English words to bend the thinking (and hence behaviour) of individuals.

A person will never fully become themselves, with  their own thoughts/views on life, living and the meaning of chocolate, if they do not dig in and rip apart the Hubbard language. It lurks on automatic and impacts on thinking and behaviour for ever more otherwise.

This language factor has another vital role.  It creates the “us and them” system.  Those that are programmed and elite and superior and those that are merely “wogs”, beneath the superior scientologist and needing  to be programmed/recruited/converted (introduced to scientology).  The language keeps the gates firmly closed to outside inspection and provides a barrier for the abuse to remain hidden.  For a controlling system to furtively gain control and power over an individual the thought-stopping language/concepts need to be introduced slowly and repetitively. This is what the lower levels, introductory services, of scientology are really about. Many say there is value in the lower level stuff. I thoroughly disagree. It is the stuff that softens the individual in readiness for the next layer and the next layer of control techniques.

The language also is a powerful enabler to con authorities with.  Enter the “state sanctioned taxpayer subsidised” status.  Anyone in their right mind, with powers to grant charitable/tax exemption statuses, could not allow a group such as scientology to function without external transparent checks and balances.  However the mass of language Hubbard invented/twisted, thoroughly disallows an honest transparent inspection of the true aims of the group and the true inner workings of the group.  

The issue with scientology being a religion, claiming it is entitled to  this and that, is all smoke and mirrors.  The issue is NOT whether scientology is a religion though this is the key point that the group uses to protect itself and gain false protection.  

The real issue(s) is/are:

What is going on within the inner workings of the group and has been since  its inception?   What are the true aims of this group?  Pushing aside all gloss and spin, what is really going on?  Is this group really benefitting society as it claims to be to gain its tax exemption status (hiding beneath a religious cloak)?  

I liken it to a mad bad marriage.  To the world, the union can appear all things good.  The couple offers to outside family and friends a “united happy front”.   But anyone over the age of 35 (arbitrary age I just grabbed) is aware that there is an external portrayal (happy couple at family function) and the internal behaviour(s) which can be the complete opposite.  As the saying goes “no one really knows what goes on inside a marriage/family except those within it.” So it is with scientology, only the stakes are way higher and the possibility of abuse to occur and be hidden from the outside world is, imo,  far easier.  

It is not an easy task to penetrate the true inner workings of scientology for several reasons.  Hubbard set it  up that members were not allowed to discuss “bad, non-aligned agenda”  things with “outsiders”. He set it up that your eternity was screwed if you did break this rule.  His teachings install phobias into individuals against mental health professionals, the media and anyone that might say one word against him or his scientology.  

If someone does leave, I would hazard a guess that something like 80% of those people will never speak about their experiences in scientology.  They have these installed thoughts which prevents them from doing so.  Also, put bluntly, many who do manage to leave are so psychologically, emotionally and spiritually messed up from their scientology experience, they can’t make enough sense of it to articulate it to any external person(s).  So as a mentally controlled scientologist, you don't read anything that is negative about Hubbard or scientology and if you do, the installed thought-stopping phobias kick in and you walk away from such "evil suppressive rantings".

So it is heavy shit the cult of scientology. It gets away with abuse because of the very way it was structured by Hubbard.  It takes a mountain of research to fathom this out properly and not get caught up in meaningless deflective details.  A  study of other totalitarian methods is helpful too.  I don’t think one can get a full concept of how scientology actually controls individuals without studying other systems. 

The above views are based on my own experiences and observations as I have peeled back the layers that controlled me into believing the fake ideals contained within Hubbard’s system.  To empty out the installed thought-stopping words/concepts was hard work and very challenging.  Many people (ex-scio’s) do not bother to do this and I can absolutely sympathise with  them.  It is like undertaking a full volume  university program.  Bringing in various other subjects to formulate new perspectives, I worked hard to break down the heavily installed concepts that to challenge Hubbard’s ideas was just plain evil.  I tested this hard and heavy to discover he was full of himself and full of fake meaningless clap-trap.  

Hubbard created a spiritual/mental prison without physical walls.  Yes there are physical walls at the sea org level, but the real walls are psychological.  If you can wall off a persons thinking from any outside influence, you have a ripe breeding ground for abuse, control and power.  You create an individual who lives within a tunnel of mind-control, unable to see outside those walls.

I got free of it.  Many others have also.  We are not victims. We are survivors of mind control.  
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
:aliengreeting:and:welcome: JBWriter, and Happy New Year to ya. You didn't mention how long you lurked before joining but if your anything like the rest of us it wasn't long before you felt compelled to speak up and have your voice heard.

:thankyou:DonCrom3rdMoCan for the welcome, wishes, advice, and questions. Hope your 2013 is filled with the very best life has to offer.

Having your voice heard..... seems to be the saving grace that is the ESMB, a place to vent, a place to lament, a place to release that repressed scream, a place to cry over the shattered dream, $cn promised the sun-moon-and stars, what we got was labor in the sun, wishing we were on the moon, and trying to hide the scars.

^^^^Poignant words and a good reminder to me as I read what people share here.

There will be a number of words you will have to ask the meaning/context of, that is a given, don't be shy. NO ONE HERE WILL BITE YOUR HEAD OFF or laugh/mock you for not knowing. Quite the opposite, IMO you will find care, compassion, manners, humor, and fun here.

I'll ask when I can't find the answer elsewhere, as is my way, but from what I've read you're quite correct -- honest answers are quickly provided. Too, compassion abounds. What surprised me, in a good way, was the humor. For example, I found a thread, "Delete this please" (?) - riotously funny - w/many posters giving/taking silly to creative extremes...and this exchange, among others, confirmed for me that people here are stronger than the bonds which once held.

Even as ex-$cientoligists (abbr $cn, $clio ronbots, Elron's etc) we still like exchange. Tell us about you. Tell us (if you know) how and why you never "took the bait" of organized religion regardless of flavor, what's you education, etc. (BTW, many of "us" use the $ for S because of the dollar driven nature $cn is)

Hmmm... The idea of sharing personal details at this time doesn't appear to be a great idea given what I've read/viewed. However, I will revisit that decision from time to time and post accordingly. Is that reasonable? I believe so. As for why I've never been involved in any religious system of beliefs -- that's easy to answer: no matter which religion I've researched, each has asked for blind trust. While the 'asking' didn't offend me, the idea of it did -- that is, intellectually I was unable to reconcile the idea of 'faith in the unseen'. FTR, I've no problem with anyone else seeing what I don't see -- and if I'm wrong, everyone else can laugh at me from heaven. That seems fair.

Enjoy the ride, your contributions wil be valued, you are a rare bird, someone absent $cn influence/warpage. :coolwink: C-Ya DC

Thanks again - hope I'm not a 'rare bird' much longer.:coolwink:
JB
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Sooooo, what's yer favorite stuffs so far? The interest factor? (mine is already explained btw.)

In this most interesting endeavour I find that us 'never-ins' 'outies' etc., have a rather morbid curiousity for what makes it all tick. You?

*redundantly obscure*

:cake:

:cheers:
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Hey JB,

Scientology is like a culture. It is rigged with language which creates thought-stopping. Layer upon layer of these words are built up to create patterned behaviour. You do not need fences or walls to control a human being – you simply install mentally controlling concepts, built with cleverly loaded words/language. At its simplest level you can just repeat enough times to a child “you are an ugly little toad” and you’ll get a child who believes they are an ugly little toad.

One of the key aspects of deprogramming an individual is to gradually remove those words from the persons thinking. Scientology is unique in that Hubbard developed an extensive vocabulary where he redefined many English words to bend the thinking (and hence behaviour) of individuals.

A person will never fully become themselves, with their own thoughts/views on life, living and the meaning of chocolate, if they do not dig in and rip apart the Hubbard language. It lurks on automatic and impacts on thinking and behaviour for ever more otherwise.

This language factor has another vital role. It creates the “us and them” system. Those that are programmed and elite and superior and those that are merely “wogs”, beneath the superior scientologist and needing to be programmed/recruited/converted (introduced to scientology). The language keeps the gates firmly closed to outside inspection and provides a barrier for the abuse to remain hidden. For a controlling system to furtively gain control and power over an individual the thought-stopping language/concepts need to be introduced slowly and repetitively. This is what the lower levels, introductory services, of scientology are really about. Many say there is value in the lower level stuff. I thoroughly disagree. It is the stuff that softens the individual in readiness for the next layer and the next layer of control techniques.

The language also is a powerful enabler to con authorities with. Enter the “state sanctioned taxpayer subsidised” status. Anyone in their right mind, with powers to grant charitable/tax exemption statuses, could not allow a group such as scientology to function without external transparent checks and balances. However the mass of language Hubbard invented/twisted, thoroughly disallows an honest transparent inspection of the true aims of the group and the true inner workings of the group.

The issue with scientology being a religion, claiming it is entitled to this and that, is all smoke and mirrors. The issue is NOT whether scientology is a religion though this is the key point that the group uses to protect itself and gain false protection.

The real issue(s) is/are:

What is going on within the inner workings of the group and has been since its inception? What are the true aims of this group? Pushing aside all gloss and spin, what is really going on? Is this group really benefitting society as it claims to be to gain its tax exemption status (hiding beneath a religious cloak)?

I liken it to a mad bad marriage. To the world, the union can appear all things good. The couple offers to outside family and friends a “united happy front”. But anyone over the age of 35 (arbitrary age I just grabbed) is aware that there is an external portrayal (happy couple at family function) and the internal behaviour(s) which can be the complete opposite. As the saying goes “no one really knows what goes on inside a marriage/family except those within it.” So it is with scientology, only the stakes are way higher and the possibility of abuse to occur and be hidden from the outside world is, imo, far easier.

It is not an easy task to penetrate the true inner workings of scientology for several reasons. Hubbard set it up that members were not allowed to discuss “bad, non-aligned agenda” things with “outsiders”. He set it up that your eternity was screwed if you did break this rule. His teachings install phobias into individuals against mental health professionals, the media and anyone that might say one word against him or his scientology.

If someone does leave, I would hazard a guess that something like 80% of those people will never speak about their experiences in scientology. They have these installed thoughts which prevents them from doing so. Also, put bluntly, many who do manage to leave are so psychologically, emotionally and spiritually messed up from their scientology experience, they can’t make enough sense of it to articulate it to any external person(s). So as a mentally controlled scientologist, you don't read anything that is negative about Hubbard or scientology and if you do, the installed thought-stopping phobias kick in and you walk away from such "evil suppressive rantings".

So it is heavy shit the cult of scientology. It gets away with abuse because of the very way it was structured by Hubbard. It takes a mountain of research to fathom this out properly and not get caught up in meaningless deflective details. A study of other totalitarian methods is helpful too. I don’t think one can get a full concept of how scientology actually controls individuals without studying other systems.

The above views are based on my own experiences and observations as I have peeled back the layers that controlled me into believing the fake ideals contained within Hubbard’s system. To empty out the installed thought-stopping words/concepts was hard work and very challenging. Many people (ex-scio’s) do not bother to do this and I can absolutely sympathise with them. It is like undertaking a full volume university program. Bringing in various other subjects to formulate new perspectives, I worked hard to break down the heavily installed concepts that to challenge Hubbard’s ideas was just plain evil. I tested this hard and heavy to discover he was full of himself and full of fake meaningless clap-trap.

Hubbard created a spiritual/mental prison without physical walls. Yes there are physical walls at the sea org level, but the real walls are psychological. If you can wall off a persons thinking from any outside influence, you have a ripe breeding ground for abuse, control and power. You create an individual who lives within a tunnel of mind-control, unable to see outside those walls.

I got free of it. Many others have also. We are not victims. We are survivors of mind control.


The points you've raised about language - how it can be manipulated, etc. - provide me with much to consider, so I can't provide a proper response, but I do wonder about the negative effects upon those who have left of using $ci-speak. Does continued exposure to $ci-speal/$ci-lingo subliminally reinforce ideas/beliefs one seeks to be rid of? I suspect it does -- just as I suspect the damage/risk(s) of damage lessen the further one moves away from thier departure date from $ci-world.

JB
 

Mini Me

Retiree
A belated welcome to ESMB JB.

It's great to see new people interested in finding about about what Scientology really is, rather than the PR version.

:welcome:
 

Sassy

Patron Meritorious
JB: Welcome! I too was never in nor did I know anyone seriously in. I've been a grateful member here for about 4 years now and as you'll see by
my post count, I don't post much. I do, however, lurk and visit this site very regularly. I'm not a great writer at all, but what I've learned from
the fine folks here has been so touching. When I first started trying to figure out what this Scientology thing was all about, I fell upon this site
and couldn't believe what I was reading. I've been so excited to watch how much closer it is to the implosion of this cult. It seems there's just
about daily news here, and there are more & more tireless crusaders to the cause making their voices heard; it's so encouraging. And to all the
folks who are out, it was a different day & time when you joined, i.e. no internet, etc. I knew of Dianetics & someone who had one foot in and
back then (1986) it was all the rage so joining during that time, there was lots of hope for new members. Very easy to fall into and for what they were selling!

Anyway, this site has been wonderful, and a special thank you to the new administrators/moderators for making the transition from Emma's
leaving & the server changeover seamless. :thumbsup:

p.s. Whenever I can, I talk about the cult & what it's really all about. People cannot believe what I tell them & I'm only oh-so-happy to
direct them to various websites, including this one, to peruse. My usual line is "do you think anyone could possibly make this shit up?" :no::omg:
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Sooooo, what's yer favorite stuffs so far? The interest factor? (mine is already explained btw.)

In this most interesting endeavour I find that us 'never-ins' 'outies' etc., have a rather morbid curiousity for what makes it all tick. You?

*redundantly obscure*

:cake:

:cheers:

Can't say I have any favorite issue(s) yet -- it's all too new/odd/weird/absurd/unreal at this point. The "interest factor"? Innate humanity; no more, no less. :biggrin:

While I've no reason to doubt your observation about other 'never-ins' as having a morbid curiosity, such is not true for me. I am curious - which might best be thought of as an umbrella term, beneath which stands compassion, doubt, concern, anger, love, and whatever else comes with a standard issue human kit. :coolwink:
What does stand out, even at this early stage, are the abusive practices that originated years ago but which have consistently increased in severity. Given this historical trajectory, I do wonder, as others do/have, what amount of force is needed to end such abuses forever.
JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
A belated welcome to ESMB JB.

It's great to see new people interested in finding about about what Scientology really is, rather than the PR version.

:welcome:

:thankyou:MiniMe for the kind welcome.

Oh yes, thanks too for, oh, I don't know....EVERYTHING?! :heartflower::cheers::bravo::goodjob:

Whatever hardships you've endured in life and putting together this forum, please know that such efforts have educated and informed many people - one of which is honestly astounded at your good works. Whatever I am able to contribute will be done as a direct consequence of your actions.

JB.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
JB: Welcome! I too was never in nor did I know anyone seriously in. I've been a grateful member here for about 4 years now and as you'll see by
my post count, I don't post much. I do, however, lurk and visit this site very regularly. I'm not a great writer at all, but what I've learned from
the fine folks here has been so touching. When I first started trying to figure out what this Scientology thing was all about, I fell upon this site
and couldn't believe what I was reading. I've been so excited to watch how much closer it is to the implosion of this cult. It seems there's just
about daily news here, and there are more & more tireless crusaders to the cause making their voices heard; it's so encouraging. And to all the
folks who are out, it was a different day & time when you joined, i.e. no internet, etc. I knew of Dianetics & someone who had one foot in and
back then (1986) it was all the rage so joining during that time, there was lots of hope for new members. Very easy to fall into and for what they were selling!

Anyway, this site has been wonderful, and a special thank you to the new administrators/moderators for making the transition from Emma's
leaving & the server changeover seamless. :thumbsup:

p.s. Whenever I can, I talk about the cult & what it's really all about. People cannot believe what I tell them & I'm only oh-so-happy to
direct them to various websites, including this one, to peruse. My usual line is "do you think anyone could possibly make this shit up?" :no::omg:

Thanks, Sassy, for the greeting & the good advice. :thumbsup:
I fully intend to follow your lead and bring up this subject with friends/colleagues -- they're infinitely smarter than I'll ever be, so ESMB may well see an increase in the 'lurker' count. :)

JB.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
The points you've raised about language - how it can be manipulated, etc. - provide me with much to consider, so I can't provide a proper response, but I do wonder about the negative effects upon those who have left of using $ci-speak. Does continued exposure to $ci-speal/$ci-lingo subliminally reinforce ideas/beliefs one seeks to be rid of? I suspect it does -- just as I suspect the damage/risk(s) of damage lessen the further one moves away from thier departure date from $ci-world. JB

When I left Scn, I moved away and didn't speak to any Scns or ex's for over 20 years. The experience was locked away in a part of my brain that I didn't want to ever revisit, and didn't - until I became so mentally blocked that I knew I had to revisit it - and went on a search and found Anonymous and exscn.

Speaking in Scn terms again was painful. None of it was forgotten, but it was as if I had to reach through a small funnel to dig it all out again. For a while, speaking in Scilon gave me terrible headaches. Using the terms again brought back a flood of memories. Those memories of friends regained were good ones, most of the rest was confusing, and many painful memories and feelings returned.

What I hadn't done was incorporate and integrate my life in Scn with my life outside it. That took most of two years. How does one reconcile a culture so insane, so dominating, so abusive, so mind controlling, with its own set of morals and ethics with that of the broader culture that doesn't even know it exists?

Everyone goes about it differently. Some spend years tediously comparing every statement by Hubbard to separate the good from the bad. But since Hubbard stated an opposite for every statement he made (discovered later), that seemed silly to me and way too time-consuming. An ex I'd contacted helped out tremendously by referring me to Goedel's Incompleteness Theorems. In short, that since there were flaws within even the most basic Scn truths, then scn itself was not so basic after all and therefore, flawed - and the flaws would be more apparent and numerous further down.

Exscn was vital to sorting out the BS though - and getting through the torrent of emotions that the language and discussing my experiences brought forward.

Since some of the language represents incomplete, missing and even false ideas, it is an integral part of the brainwashing. We would recite some of the basics every morning, or in the classroom, or read them so often they were seared on one's brain. Occasionally I still find myself evaluating something through the Scn tiny tube - and have to stop to take a broader look.

Can't say I have any favorite issue(s) yet -- it's all too new/odd/weird/absurd/unreal at this point. The "interest factor"? Innate humanity; no more, no less. :biggrin:

...
What does stand out, even at this early stage, are the abusive practices that originated years ago but which have consistently increased in severity. Given this historical trajectory, I do wonder, as others do/have, what amount of force is needed to end such abuses forever.
JB.

JB - Hubbard was quite cruel to those on the ship. I'm not sure DM was worse. Hubbard locked up children in cages for days,
he had an adult man push a peanut across a deck with his nose until it was skinless and bloodied and kept going - in front of the whole crew and his family and children.

The 70s to mid 80s or so were better for us, but not for those who were fair gamed.

So it really depends on what time period you're looking at and where in the world, too. Scientology is a totalitarian regime based on a better-than-thou philosophy. It is bound to always have abusive personalities at the top who adore this sort of power and control over others. DM was Hubbard's choice as his successor because he had the ruthlessness. He is doing what Hubbard's policies say and his interpretation is not so different from Hubbard's. Hubbard had a nice side, too and I suspect DM does as well.
 
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