A small part of my story

Peter Schilte

Patron with Honors
My grandmother, she died about 3 years ago at the age of 92, told me some stories about the second world war.

Really, the stories I read here are chickenshit stories.

B.
Bobo, it was war. We live in peace now. I wouldn't want you to go trough the ordeals some peolpe went through while in a sinister cult. Your remark is way out of line.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
My grandmother, she died about 3 years ago at the age of 92, told me some stories about the second world war.

Really, the stories I read here are chickenshit stories.

B.

That is an interesting observation.

When people are being bombed, or are being put into concentration camps and dying in ovens, yes, these are chickenshit stories by comparison. Things are very clearly dangerous, and the incidents you must confront and act upon in those stories are clearly courageous and heroic.

To me, these stories of the cult show that we are vulnerable, and our highest ideals and our most humane qualities can be exploited.

I see the mistakes made in these stories, not usually out of cowardice, although that can become a huge factor, but mostly out of wanting to preserve the best of ourselves after it had been given over to the cult and held captive.

We were trying to retain what was best in us. That's why we didn't just walk away, and that's why we sometimes went back in.

It was just a trick played on us. No bombs, no armed guards, no Xyclon B

But in the end, it took the tremendous courage of following our highest ideals to finally give up the lives we had built, risking our families and all our friends, businesses, etc. and to walk away from the cult.

So, in that sense, these stories are not chickenshit at all.

They are also stories of courage. And because there are no bombs and bullets to make our decisions for us, just choices and ideals and a love of the truth, maybe these stories show just as much courage as any other from world war II.

We were definitely tested.

Some of us failed.

But many didn't.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
That is an interesting observation.

When people are being bombed, or are being put into concentration camps and dying in ovens, yes, these are chickenshit stories by comparison. Things are very clearly dangerous, and the incidents you must confront and act upon in those stories are clearly courageous and heroic.

To me, these stories of the cult show that we are vulnerable, and our highest ideals and our most humane qualities can be exploited.

I see the mistakes made in these stories, not usually out of cowardice, although that can become a huge factor, but mostly out of wanting to preserve the best of ourselves after it had been given over to the cult and held captive.

We were trying to retain what was best in us. That's why we didn't just walk away, and that's why we sometimes went back in.

It was just a trick played on us. No bombs, no armed guards, no Xyclon B

But in the end, it took the tremendous courage of following our highest ideals to finally give up the lives we had built, risking our families and all our friends, businesses, etc. and to walk away from the cult.

So, in that sense, these stories are not chickenshit at all.

They are also stories of courage. And because there are no bombs and bullets to make our decisions for us, just choices and ideals and a love of the truth, maybe these stories show just as much courage as any other from world war II.

We were definitely tested.

Some of us failed.

But many didn't.

Nicely put, Alanzo.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
My grandmother, she died about 3 years ago at the age of 92, told me some stories about the second world war.

Really, the stories I read here are chickenshit stories.

B.

roflmao! AS you appear to have lived neither stories but merely listened to what others have to say - your opinion doesn't really interest me.
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
My grandmother, she died about 3 years ago at the age of 92, told me some stories about the second world war.

Really, the stories I read here are chickenshit stories.

B.

In a war, all you have to lose is a body.

haiqu
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
The phone call was, of course, the cancellation of the declare. Finally I got to talk to my wife - for the first time in 9 months! We talked and talked - Nancy told me about the troubles she had gone through on the RPF, the insistence that she should realize that I was an SP, worrying about the children and so on.

I think the phone call was a Wednesday night/early Thursday morning thing - I may be mistaken. Anyway, once I had talked with Nancy for an hour I was so pumped I could not go back to sleep. Strangely enough in a weird way I felt that the whole episode validated Scientology justice - after all I had been declared in what I thought was merely a witch hunt but after due time and investigation the system came through. This was one of the main reasons I was willing to go back into the SO. (stop shaking your head, Alanzo...)

By Thursday night I had received two phone calls from recruiters. Suddenly I was "persona grata" again. I could talk to people.

6 weeks later Nancy got back from Flag, we were still in the one room in Malc's apartment but things were looking up. Nancy and I talked about what to do next, she CSWed for a LOA so that we could get our act caught up, bills paid and so on. It was approved. Holy crap! I got a job working as a spray painter at Arne Hoyer's company - actually the contract was at the Carlsberg Brewery - free beer! Nancy and I got an apartment our in Norrebro. Not a bad place. Nancy got to try and cook. It was, for all of us, an exciting time.

Christmas came, friends came over form England, we had a rare old time.

Tom Woodruff from Int Finance came by to pay a visit. I was wanted back, I was needed back. I pointed out that I had bills to pay. No problem - he had the money to lend me to be paid off as and when - from the "LRH Birthday Fund".

I was left with no objection and, I am kicking myself even now, I agreed to go back in the SO. I never once thought to discuss it with Nancy - after all the only reason we were out was because of my declare - once all that was handled we were back in. I should have talked with her.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
I have to admit that I took Bobos remark as reflecting his illustrious title: Master of Bullbait.

Besides, as Micks story goes, I'm sure it wasn't chickenshit he had to deal with... erhm..

I get the strangest 'pictures' coming up in my head. A daddy with a little boy on the shoulders, and another boy old enough to walk, but running to keep up with daddy, who walked a little too fast. All three grinning..

Like I noticed Mick.. It could have happened actually. I lived at the end of the 'lakes' like 15 years. The north end by Østerbrogade. Quite close to Trianglen. It was my parents home, and thus mine, from mid teens. I moved in and out a couple of times. I used to jog around the lakes. Twice around is just about 10 kilometers. Also taking a walk. My brother was a waiter at that time at Café Guldanden at Sortedamsdosseringen. I've sat on my ass there drinkin coffee many times.

Hmm '83. That's after I blew the GO. At that time I lived at Frederiksberg. That lessens the likelyhood some..

Arne Høyer: Sandblasting.. My friend, the big oaf (name withheld to protect him, even if he's far from innocent!), worked there at some point.


:D
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Right. By that logic,anyone who hasn't lived through a war has ever been abused, had misfortune, etc. And of course we know that's not true.

I find Mick's story moving and fascinating. There might not have been bombs falling around him but he went hungry, didn't know where he'd go, what he'd do, and had young children to take care of, plus other circumstances (having to use public baths, no elevators, one child had special needs, the other quite tiny, worrying about wife, etc.).

One doesn't have to be in the midst of a war to be valiant.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I've removed the distraction BS from this thread except one post which has been answered wisely and appropriately. For anyone who's post I've removed (except for bobo) that you feel was incorrect please accept my apologies.

Mick I hope you will continue to tell your story.
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
The price

Mick, Alanzo nailed it. It's the price we pay for being honest enough with ourselves to finally admit the whole thing isn't working out. My price is not being able to speak with my own Mother, my Son, my Daughter, my Brother , my 4 Sisters, my 22 nephews and nieces. I am "the bad one". I stood alone of the 6 children of my father at his funeral. He passed away with his most fervent wish unfulfilled; that he be able to make peace with his children before he died. It is a high price. We served, sometimes twice, like you and I. Some longer, some shorter. We paid a high price to put the shoulder to L. Ron Hubbards wheel, and we pushed, and we paid. Keep writing, Mick. It needs to be told. Let it stand as a warning to others not to go that way.
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
Mick, Alanzo nailed it. It's the price we pay for being honest enough with ourselves to finally admit the whole thing isn't working out. My price is not being able to speak with my own Mother, my Son, my Daughter, my Brother , my 4 Sisters, my 22 nephews and nieces. I am "the bad one". I stood alone of the 6 children of my father at his funeral. He passed away with his most fervent wish unfulfilled; that he be able to make peace with his children before he died. It is a high price. We served, sometimes twice, like you and I. Some longer, some shorter. We paid a high price to put the shoulder to L. Ron Hubbards wheel, and we pushed, and we paid. Keep writing, Mick. It needs to be told. Let it stand as a warning to others not to go that way.

Mike,

I am purposefully being vague here to protect my anonymity.

Having had more than one run-in with one of your kin, I can't help but observe that some Sea Org members have committed so many overts in the name of "Keeping Scientology Working" that they have become permanently PTS to the worst of LRH, DM, and others of that ilk. For instance, if an Int mission showed up and ordered them to throw half their staff off of a building, they would gladly do it.

Once a case of the "PTS Forever" sets in, there seems to be two main paths:

1. Continue to robotically dramatize the pseudo serious mock tone 40 gung-ho valence - you know - steam-roll to dust the other intentioned (translation: those that currently aren't behind your quest for self-aggrandizement).

2. Slime your way out of the pain of being on staff by coming up with great reasons to "exit stage right" - where you manage to find enough cover to dodge the bullets while continuing to be a member of the group.

It's like if you don't at some point make a stand against the abuse, you end up so seriously screwed up there's no hope of salvation due to too many overts of omission and commission against other staff.

ExScnDude
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
The phone call was, of course, the cancellation of the declare. Finally I got to talk to my wife - for the first time in 9 months! We talked and talked - Nancy told me about the troubles she had gone through on the RPF, the insistence that she should realize that I was an SP, worrying about the children and so on.

I think the phone call was a Wednesday night/early Thursday morning thing - I may be mistaken. Anyway, once I had talked with Nancy for an hour I was so pumped I could not go back to sleep. Strangely enough in a weird way I felt that the whole episode validated Scientology justice - after all I had been declared in what I thought was merely a witch hunt but after due time and investigation the system came through. This was one of the main reasons I was willing to go back into the SO. (stop shaking your head, Alanzo...)

By Thursday night I had received two phone calls from recruiters. Suddenly I was "persona grata" again. I could talk to people.


Oh god.

How often have I seen that?

My favorite is when one org fitness boards a staff member out.

Or the person routes off or is kicked off the RPF.

And other orgs, desperate for staff, swoop down to "recover" him.

I've seen quite a few people leave the RPF, another org besides the one he's from org gets a "Board of Review" pushed through on him, his RPF assignment is canceled, and he gets back in and posted somewhere. Often on a higher post than the one he was busted from.

Almost as good as the staff member who gets RPFed, refuses to go, gets kicked out, has some rich person pay off his freeloader debt, and gets through his OT Levels six months later.

Don't get me started.

:storm:


This is nothing about your injustice, Mick.

It's about the whole insanity on the subject of personnel that is the Sea Org.
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
public after sea org

it's off thread, sorry Mick, but if anyone is so foolhardy to become public after leaving SO, good luck. Especially on pre-OT levele, they have extra stuff waiting for you to do that you will not know is extra. It will cost you. Back to Micks story.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
The time after my declare had been cancelled was an exciting and confusing time. Nancy came back from Flag having finally CSWed and begged her way out of the Finance Network. For anyone who has been in the SO will know that one of the most demeaning and annoying positions to be in is to be a "coin". Nancy was Finance Staff but no longer qualified to be in Finance, that meant she was eligible to be swapped to replace a qualified staff member in some other unit, This is, of course, one of the dumbest things that the SO does - among an entire list of dumb things..

But through it all she came home. By the time she got back I was no longer working at the hotel, thanks to my "grata" status I now had the job at Hoyers (let me slip in a good word here for Arne Hoyer, truly a nice guy) and was on my way to becoming just one mor eperson in the Danish "field".

Then Tom W arrived and I was headed back into the SO. FSC EU. Based in AOSH EU.

This was the start of my second career in the SO and, I have to say, it was pretty much an unmitigated disaster.

WE basically moved back into the Nordland and went on post in the FSC Office. No re-orientation, no adjustment, no handling - nothing. Just - on post. I am astounded - looking back on it - that I agreed to do this job. I absolutely HATE regging with a passion. I hate sales and anything to do with it. Somehow someone "uplines" must have thought that as I had been a CO of AOSH EU I must have had some sort of ability in that area. Nope, none.

The FSC EU Office was quite an operation. Therese Morin covered France, Ursi Hablutzel Switzerland, Alfred Kohl Germany, Astrid Puetsch AOSH itself, Herik Palmquist Sweden. In the office in AOSH there was also a lady called Judy - dont remember her last name. Alfred has been the Br 1 dir for B 1 Munich before he got "cleaned up" from his GO days. He was a nice guy and very funny in a dry kind of way.

Dave Bloomberg was FSC INt when I first started - I kind of enjoyed his breezy style "what's the story, morning glory" was his usual start to the day. Later on he was replaced by Bo Wennberg - who could be a lot more serious but, in his own way he was a cool guy. (I was very sad to hear that he had died from complications from Diabetes in the 90's).

This was a job to which I was not suited. Once the "gee, I'm back" wow factor had dissipated it was just a grind.

Then came the "we want you to move to Flag to be D/CO Production FSO" .
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Now, I had always thought that I would be good in that sort of job. I had been D/CO Prod EU back in the day and thought that I did fairly well at it. So I was on board with the idea. Plus - anything was better than sitting around in the FSC Office chasing money (it never occurred to me then that this is precisely what I would be doing at the FSO...). Nancy and I talked about it and the basic theory was - I would go over, Nancy would take over as FSC EU and get replaced and we would all meet up in Clearwater.

By this time the kids and I had our green cards - well not actually the cards, but the basic package of documentation you are supposed to arrive in the US with when you immigrate. By early September I was on my way to LA where I was to get my Int Clearances and then it was off up the road..

I arrived in LA and there to meet me at Big Blue was Billy Lindstein - WDC FSO. A bit of a shock I have to say - I had last known Billy as CO Malmo. Anyway he was friendly and businesslike and it was a question of getting my INt Clearances and away we would go.

So I get to meet the RTC auditor who is going to do my sec check. I cannot remember her name but she was a pleasant enough person. Poor lady.

I had been declared back in 82 by the Finance Police - part of the sec checking they had used inolved having two different people shouting questions at me while one watched the meter and gave the reads out loud.

The day after I arrived at LA I went into session with the RTC auditor. The first auditing I had been in since the Fin Police.

It did not go well. She launched into the "I'm not auditing you" spiel and I launched into the "well you can just fuck off then" answer. I put the cans down. After a lot of what we could loosely refer to as "two way comm" she realized that the "worksheets" from the Fin Police days were not there. From what I gathered the fact that I had gone through all this crap was not even considered.

I was a tad upset. Apparently no-one had considered that there may have to be some addressing of the issues involved in the declare, the massive familial upset, the stress and horror inflicted on my wife and me. Not even a clue!

It was kind of funny in a way. She tried to persuade me to pick up the cans but, as I said to her - "If you are not auditing me, I am not interested in it. Period." She did try various little ploys but she came up against one big roadblock that she could not overcome. "I've already been delcared once, I survived that, I'll survive this."

I really didn't a rat's rear end any more.

We ended off at this point - she hadn't started anything so I felt no need to go to an examiner and she seemed confused.

Two days later I got a call to be ready for a session. This time she was auditing me and we started in on addressing all the stuff. One particular thing we talked about (well, I talked, she acked) was that I was going to pound the snot of Mathias Patel when and if I ever ran into him. After a while I got off my high horse about it and realized that Patel may have been an asshole but punching him wasn't going to change that.

This turned out to be a very fortunate realization - for Mathias.

After the session I came downstairs for Big Blue and out into the street and guess who the RPFer I ran into was?

Mathias Patel.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I dont wanna divert your thread - not planning to, but I HAVE to interject: (your story is awesome. I watch for it every time I am here, ready to the next installment):

Billy Lindstein was RPFed later. He was on the RPF when I was. His RPF assignment was posted on the HGB notice board, not with a pin, but with a dagger. Intentionally.

Talk about granting beingness, eh?
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I dont wanna divert your thread - not planning to, but I HAVE to interject: (your story is awesome. I watch for it every time I am here, ready to the next installment):

Billy Lindstein was RPFed later. He was on the RPF when I was. His RPF assignment was posted on the HGB notice board, not with a pin, but with a dagger. Intentionally.

Talk about granting beingness, eh?

Billy was alright in my book. Malmo Org when he was CO (and Mariette was PES) was small compared to Stockholm but it was an OK place to be.

From what I have heard the org has all but disappeared in the last few years.
 
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