A survey for those that still have feelings for Scientology

[Miss Ellie]

A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

An organization run by committee makes a camel look well designed as a horse.

I am in several non profit organizations run by volunteers. The 20/80/100 rule applies.

20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work enjoyed by 100 percent of the people. The other 20 percent of the work never gets done.

Set up a board that releases the materials for purchase by anyone who wants them. Pay a small salary to the board, all being paid the same, any profits after reasonable expenses goes to homeless charities not run by any board members.

Since there are mountains of materials sitting around none would need to be printed for years.

Oh, no advertising budget, all promotion done word of mouth or online for free.

If the tech works so would this plan.

Or we could all just move on to a real life filled with real people.

 

[George Layton]

Release all Sea Org members paying them all back wages at current minimum wage with overtime, reduce it down to only one Org and base it in North Korea.

 

[Demented LRH]

I did not give 5 years of my life to Scientology Inc., mostly unpaid, to sit back and watch Scientology be unmocked.With that in mind I have a vague plan of action, but first a survey.What would you like to see changed in Corporate Scientology (in no way does this question infer that you would return to Corporate Scientology, and yes I realize this could be construed as a listing question. )?I'll start with just a few ideas:1. Abolish disconnection.2. Abolish fair game.3. Allow anyone to come and go as they please. If all they want is life repair and then want to go live their life, which would be just fine.4. Establish a Board of Directors, half of which would be admin trained and half tech trained to direct Church activities.5. Let the Board pick a General Manager to run the day to day functions of the Church.6. Truly abolish crush sales and reging for pure donations.7. Truly abolish the use of ethics for the sake of ethics. Acknowledge the true freedom that a thetan deserves and only use ethics when tech isn't going in.8. Getting rid of anyone in administration that is not tech trained, except as advisory/little power roles.9. Release all LRH material under the Creative Commons license. No one should have a monopoly on truth. Nor use copyright as a tool to stop the practice of Scientology.10. Restore the original OT levels.11. Using ethics in coordination and conjunction with the tech to help the individual move up the Bridge and better conditions in Life (its purpose being not only when tech doesn't go in), and to wisely use it to also protect the group, even if that group is a field auditing practice. 12. A council of Class VIIIs (and/or XIIs) along with a few OEC/FEBCs (or even better if they are Class VIII and FEBC) to run the show.13. Issue an unconditional amnesty, which in no way, shape or form is an inducement to come back to the Church, for all those who have given their heart and soul to Scientology.14. Abolish the SO and all associated foolishness like the RPF.15. Cancel all "Justice" policies.16. Apply labor and civil laws.17. Create an independent review board to investigate illegal activities in the church and bring the perpetrators to Justice.18. Remove the IAS membership requirement for services.19. Create a member-elected board of governors for the IAS.20. General amnesty - unconditional.21. Reset policy - establish a parishioner/staff board of directors or advisors to realign the admin scale including review, reissuance, and creation of applicable policy.22. Release all of Hubbard's work to public domain.23. Open source e-meters - but create a set of metrics meters should meet.24. Stop lying.25. Drop all reference to church and religion. Scientology is a practice based on ancient philosophical principles. Religion is too narrow a description, and in any case, not everyone warms to a 'following' or groups or organizations. Thanks;Howard DickmanFormer Senior C/S of the San Diego Org and an RPF graduateChandler, Oklahoma

26. Impale Miscavige of a Scientology cross.

 

[Knows]

A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

An organization run by committee makes a camel look well designed as a horse.

I am in several non profit organizations run by volunteers. The 20/80/100 rule applies.

20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work enjoyed by 100 percent of the people. The other 20 percent of the work never gets done.

Set up a board that releases the materials for purchase by anyone who wants them. Pay a small salary to the board, all being paid the same, any profits after reasonable expenses goes to homeless charities not run by any board members.

Since there are mountains of materials sitting around none would need to be printed for years.

Oh, no advertising budget, all promotion done word of mouth or online for free.

If the tech works so would this plan.

Or we could all just move on to a real life filled with real people.

"Oh, no advertising budget, all promotion done word of mouth or online for free".

You may want to consider changing the name?

 

[He-man]

1. Sell everything
2. Set up a foundation with the sole target to make amends to any one who has suffered from the organisations malicious practices.
3. Move the "intellectual properties" into the public domain.
4. Once the monies are gone, disband the "church"

 

[SanDiegoMember]

1. Sell everything
2. Set up a foundation with the sole target to make amends to any one who has suffered from the organisations malicious practices.
3. Move the "intellectual properties" into the public domain.
4. Once the monies are gone, disband the "church"

One of my reason's for even attempting something as far fetched as my current plan is that I have four good friends who have devoted their life to the church. One couple were my roommates in 1973, my PC's, fellow staff at San Diego and lastly, my best man and maid of honor at my first wedding. I care deeply about all four of them and to get rid of what has been their life's work would not be right. There are a lot of very good people still in the Church and those are the ones I want to help.

686 views on this thread and 24 replies, some with some very good and valid ideas. Thanks so much for everyone's interest. I have much left to do.

Howard Dickman

 

[He-man]

One of my reason's for even attempting something as far fetched as my current plan is that I have four good friends who have devoted their life to the church. One couple were my roommates in 1973, my PC's, fellow staff at San Diego and lastly, my best man and maid of honor at my first wedding. I care deeply about all four of them and to get rid of what has been their life's work would not be right. There are a lot of very good people still in the Church and those are the ones I want to help.

686 views on this thread and 24 replies, some with some very good and valid ideas. Thanks so much for everyone's interest. I have much left to do.

Howard Dickman

Well Howard, I do understand where you are coming from, but I do not see what could be salvaged from this "Church"

To put in perspective, is this not exactly how a lot of children and parents feel at some point when a family has failed due to abuse? That the family unit somehow needs to be saved?

But does that somehow mean it should be? Or that it can?

If you and some others wants to save the church, it has been discussed before, set up your own thing just like the freezone, and have your forever after bliss, for me - the church of scamology is beyond redemption.

 

[Charles Carmichael]

Howard Dickman
Former Senior C/S of the San Diego Org and an RPF graduate
Chandler, Oklahoma

When and where were you in the sea org?

 

[SanDiegoMember]

When and where were you in the sea org?

Here is my story, along with supporting documents - http://scientolipedia.org/info/Howard_Dickman

 

[Mick Wenlock]

One of my reason's for even attempting something as far fetched as my current plan is that I have four good friends who have devoted their life to the church. One couple were my roommates in 1973, my PC's, fellow staff at San Diego and lastly, my best man and maid of honor at my first wedding. I care deeply about all four of them and to get rid of what has been their life's work would not be right. There are a lot of very good people still in the Church and those are the ones I want to help.

686 views on this thread and 24 replies, some with some very good and valid ideas. Thanks so much for everyone's interest. I have much left to do.

Howard Dickman

Well Howard there are several things that I think need to be said. While I admire your loyalty and friendship for those people still in I think you are doing this completely ass backwards.

What they have been doing since whenever (the 70s) is to follow a failed dream. Encouraging them to follow that dream even more is not being nice - it is being cruel.

They have worked for an organization which has fleeced people, which has taken money from people pretending it can "help" them and which has turned round and abused people split families left people insane and worse. There is no way to sugarcoat the insanity of continuing to work in an organization like that. Trying to paper over the cracks, to "lose" the more insane and vindictive policies and "tech" will only serve to make sure that those in it will never be able to sort themselves out . IN order to understand this baleful subject one has to know as much about it as possible.

They (and all of us who joined this dreck) made a colossal mistake. The only thing to do when you make a faux pas of this magnitude is to stop doing and do something better.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Well Howard there are several things that I think need to be said. While I admire your loyalty and friendship for those people still in I think you are doing this completely ass backwards.

What they have been doing since whenever (the 70s) is to follow a failed dream. Encouraging them to follow that dream even more is not being nice - it is being cruel.

They have worked for an organization which has fleeced people, which has taken money from people pretending it can "help" them and which has turned round and abused people split families left people insane and worse. There is no way to sugarcoat the insanity of continuing to work in an organization like that. Trying to paper over the cracks, to "lose" the more insane and vindictive policies and "tech" will only serve to make sure that those in it will never be able to sort themselves out . IN order to understand this baleful subject one has to know as much about it as possible.

They (and all of us who joined this dreck) made a colossal mistake. The only thing to do when you make a faux pas of this magnitude is to stop doing and do something better.

​

 

[Dean Blair]

Howard, I appreciate your intentions but having been in Scientology for forty years I do not think that it is possible to reform Scientology into something that would benefit mankind. The subject itself is a fraud and virtually nothing in it has ever been proven Scientifically to be true. Hubbard himself was a con man and was not the great noble man that he wanted everyone to believe.

Anything that worked in Scientology was lifted from an earlier practice or from another individuals contribution that L Ron Hubbard took from them and assigned his personal ownership too.

Xenu, BTs, Clusters, whole track implants, a time track that is trillions of years long and much much more is simply a product of L Ron's imagination and nothing more. Hubbard was in it for the money, power, and popularity. He was never in it to help the people of earth. He was a bastard that the true believers were convinced to believe was a messiah.

 

[SanDiegoMember]

Howard, I appreciate your intentions but having been in Scientology for forty years I do not think that it is possible to reform Scientology into something that would benefit mankind. The subject itself is a fraud and virtually nothing in it has ever been proven Scientifically to be true. Hubbard himself was a con man and was not the great noble man that he wanted everyone to believe.

Anything that worked in Scientology was lifted from an earlier practice or from another individuals contribution that L Ron Hubbard took from them and assigned his personal ownership too.

Xenu, BTs, Clusters, whole track implants, a time track that is trillions of years long and much much more is simply a product of L Ron's imagination and nothing more. Hubbard was in it for the money, power, and popularity. He was never in it to help the people of earth. He was a bastard that the true believers were convinced to believe was a messiah.

Dean, both you and Mile raise valid issues. Thanks for your thoughts. Comments such as yours and Mike's is why I ventured to post this survey on the ESMB. They do need to be addressed. Thank you.

Howard Dickman

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Re: Nobody told anybody to LIE

...
Lying is also part and parcel of Scientology: "Handling truth is a touchy business ... Tell an acceptable truth." L. Ron Hubbard, The Missing Ingredient, 13 August 1970. There is also TR-L!
...

Well, well, the truth will out, as they say. I have heard this "acceptable truth" stuff bandied around and never knew where it came from. I just searched the Tech vols. Nothing. Searched the OEC vols and found it in Vol 6. This is a Policy Letter in the PR series. I don't think ANYBODY bothered to read it. The whole bulletin is going on about how other practices lie and how scientologists shouldn't. How come nobody is quoting the part in bold from that policy ...
"Thus the law
NEVER USE LIES IN PR."

And the full quote being used against LRH is actually
"Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don't have to tell everything you know - that would jam the comm line
too. Tell an acceptable truth."

Anyone quoting that policy to show that lying was being encouraged has not read that policy, has crashing MUs, or has some other agenda.

The way I have heard this being used is to tell a lie which is acceptable to the wog receiving it.
Quite clearly Scientologists using it that way need to M9 *rate it with the MAA/EO.

 

[Bill]

Re: Nobody told anybody to LIE

... the full quote being used against LRH is actually
"Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don't have to tell everything you know - that would jam the comm line
too. Tell an acceptable truth."

Anyone quoting that policy to show that lying was being encouraged has not read that policy, has crashing MUs, or has some other agenda.

The way I have heard this being used is to tell a lie which is acceptable to the wog receiving it.
Quite clearly Scientologists using it that way need to M9 *rate it with the MAA/EO.

Seriously? You're going with that?

Haven't you ever "lied by omission"? Haven't you heard Scientology speak of the RPF using "acceptable" but completely misleading terms to make it sound so good?

At what point do you draw the line, Lesolee? Hmmm? There is no hard line once you start using "acceptable truths" in place of truth. Once you've said Scientologists must "tell an acceptable truth" instead of the truth, you have opened the door to all sorts of (what are, effectively) lies masquerading as "acceptable truths".

No, the reason Hubbard urged his followers to use "acceptable truths" in place of just the truth is because the truth about Scientology must remain hidden. Non-Scientologists would find the real facts to be unacceptable because: The real facts about Scientology ARE UNACCEPTABLE.

And, no, I don't need to "M9 *rate" the bulletin, I think I understand its real message a lot better than you do.

 

[Veda]

Re: Nobody told anybody to LIE

Well, well, the truth will out, as they say. I have heard this "acceptable truth" stuff bandied around and never knew where it came from. I just searched the Tech vols. Nothing. Searched the OEC vols and found it in Vol 6. This is a Policy Letter in the PR series. I don't think ANYBODY bothered to read it. The whole bulletin is going on about how other practices lie and how scientologists shouldn't. How come nobody is quoting the part in bold from that policy ...
"Thus the law
NEVER USE LIES IN PR."

And the full quote being used against LRH is actually
"Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don't have to tell everything you know - that would jam the comm line
too. Tell an acceptable truth."

Anyone quoting that policy to show that lying was being encouraged has not read that policy, has crashing MUs, or has some other agenda.

The way I have heard this being used is to tell a lie which is acceptable to the wog receiving it.
Quite clearly Scientologists using it that way need to M9 *rate it with the MAA/EO.

My suggestion to you is:

Read all of the PR Series issues.

First the ones that are not confidential. You'll find these in the PR Series part of the Management Series Volume.

Next, read the confidential PR Series issues.

Then read the confidential issues on Propaganda.

Then read this link and its three links - concerning PR tech, Propaganda tech, and Intelligence tech:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ystem-Document&p=392666&viewfull=1#post392666

That's a start.

Let us know if you've had a cognition.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Re: Nobody told anybody to LIE

My suggestion to you is:

Read all of the PR Series issues.

First the ones that are not confidential. You'll find these in the PR Series part of the Management Series Volume.

Next, read the confidential PR Series issues.

Then read the confidential issues on Propaganda.

Then read this link and its three links - concerning PR tech, Propaganda tech, and Intelligence tech:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ystem-Document&p=392666&viewfull=1#post392666

That's a start.

Let us know if you've had a cognition.

an excellent recommendation.

Lesolee - you know I thought you were just being funny and I hope that is the case.

Scientologists are instructed from the get go on not telling people everything - Hubbard talks about it in the PTS material about how scientologists create trouble by talking about things which are "out gradient" for "wogs" also in the Dissem Drill.

You need to study more.

In the real world it is called lying.

 

[RogerB]

Well Howard, your OP is a very well intentioned and decent effort which deserves honor; but it is very flawed.

I got into Scientology in 1957 and had the experience of watching it develop, and that gives one a rather different perspective of the beast than coming in with it "at its heyday" in '72.

My view is that it is and would be a pointless exercise to engage in the reforms you articulate even with the changes and/or additions suggested by others . . . yes, it might make life more comfortable for those who stay in . . . but the real issue is that the whole enterprise is and was based on fraud, deceit, lies and actually an evil intent.

While, at a certain level, folks do experience change and feel-good results, the actual technology "developed by Hubbard" is erroneous and fraught with danger. I say this because his "research" was fraudulent: actually non-existent. He said he did "research" to develop the tech, but that is in actuality not true . . . what came from his pen and presented by him as the research line was nothing more than razzle-dazzle designed to impress and continue the con job he was engaged it.

You will see here a thread concerning alterations to the various editions of books . . . in it I posted scans of the earlier editions of 8-8008 wherein Hubbard himself was denigrating Dianetics as used only by psychs and implanters . . . this of course at the time when he did not control the subject and its copyrights and could not profit from it. But once he regained the rights to the name and subject it was repackaged and re-released as "Standard" Dianetics in 1969.

This give you an idea of the deceit and nastiness of the man . . . here is a subject he claimed would save mankind, etc., but when he could not profit from it he sought to destroy it and deny it to mankind.

Scientology is rife with this kind of deceit. It is dangerous in that it is a dangerously incomplete body of work passing as complete and as workable when it is egregiously fraught with error. And dangerous error at that.

And the proof of its dangerousness is the situation you are attempting to correct . . . had there been any shred of sanity, honesty or truth in Hubbard's propositions and works, the organization would not have nor could it have developed into the destructive and harmful monster it became . . . please realize it was a destructive, monstrous organization even in his own lifetime and when he was directly controlling it while aboard the Apollo . . . refer to the sadistic behavior and punishments he personally meted out to those under his control. Please read here the account written by "Alan" regarding Hubbard's fraud of taking over Alan's Mission Network based on and by use of falsely reporting to the IRS that Alan had evaded taxes.

And, of course, that nastiness and sadistic behavior towards one's fellows is written into his management policies and doctrines.

No, while I am with you that your friends and those who have not yet seen the evil that Scientology is and who thus wish to continue subjecting themselves to it do deserve better, the actuality is that the Scientology enterprise should be unmocked.

It is simply a dangerous fraud created by a man who constantly lied and deceived all who followed him.

RogerB

 

[Dulloldfart]

Re: Nobody told anybody to LIE

In the real world it is called lying.

Like those "shore stories."

As in, "yeah, yeah . . . sure."

Paul

 

[Commander Birdsong]

yup...

that's right SDM; numbers one and two are the two biggies

but...

back in the 40's we fairgamed adolph hitler and i still think that was a good idea. absolute abolishment is not far from the proper action but not precisely correct

and disconnection...

MAJOR change is imperative

but...

american first amendment guarantees freedom of association which does not exist w/o freedom of disassociation...


good list; great starting point for discussion

thank you