A test of whole track recall

[Terril park]

OK, now you are starting to remind me of very upset child.

Your statement is out of the " I forbid you to forbid me " ! vein.

Don't you understand " I had gains " is pure & simple a judgement ?

Then you follow that with :" You are in no position to judge them " !

So, you make a judgement & tell others they can't judge your judgement of judging ?

Dude, you can't fucking demo that fucking level of insanity !

snip

.

Whoever wrote that dosn't know what gains I had or
anything about them.

And I'm insane for posting that obvious fact?

 

[Terril park]

What word don't you understand?

Yes, Terrill. Every single person said the exact same phrase in exactly the same words. "Mocking It UP" were the precise words required.
That doesn't mean that every one who said the words realized that 'mocking it up' was/is a 'cognition'. Some people kept on with the CC even after they uttered those words. In my own case, I was disgusted with the Clearing Course and said "I am just mocking this up in protest. I already knew I was mocking it up. I had known it since 1952 when I blew out of it. I thought everyone who went to the Congresses in 55/56,the Clearing Congress, the Clean Hands Congress...etc etc etc knew that the reactive mind was being mocked up. ( by himself and others).
The answer to your question is "Yes". The exact "cognition" has to be expressed by every single "Clear".
Haven't you ever read PC folders where the CC cog is circled by an FESr( folder error summary)?

No I havn't. And thanks.

This indicates the clear cog had some validity.

 

[Terril park]

In the FZ if you say that you are CLear, is that all you need to do to attest and go on to upper levels?
Is there some other criteria in the FZ for 'attesting' to the state of clear? :confused2:

Before I went FZ I'd twice attested to natural clear at St Hill.
This was accepted in the FZ.

 

[Terril park]

In the FZ if you say that you are CLear, is that all you need to do to attest and go on to upper levels?
Is there some other criteria in the FZ for 'attesting' to the state of clear? :confused2:

Before I went FZ I'd twice attested to natural clear at St Hill.
This was accepted in the FZ.

Its possible that I was the last or of the last
to be accepted as natural clear by COS. 1991

 

[Lone Star]

Whoever wrote that dosn't know what gains I had or
anything about them.

And I'm insane for posting that obvious fact?

I've always wanted someone to explain what the gains actually are and how they have given him or her a better life. I don't expect you to do this because most Scientologists whether in the cult or outside of it either will not or cannot.

I understand the phenomenon of being "keyed out". But that is a temporary good feeling. I suppose it is a fleeting gain, like being buzzed after drinking two beers. I've always wanted a true believer to explain what the gain is and how it has had lasting impact in making one's life better.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

On to that vaulted state of " Natural Clear " . . . . . . . .

I have yet to meet a single person IRL who " attested " to natural clear that wasn't flat fucking insane. ( Dear Mods, please note I have NOT met Terril IRL ! )

I mean to a person, they are, well, off. They don't seem to be able to succeed in life, but, remain airy fairy dependent on others to get through life.

I'm willing to be wrong - find an example of one that ain't all fucked up.

Embarrassed cough ...

Er, I seem to have managed to survive and do quite well in life (thank-you very much for asking).

I am "flat fucking insane" though ... so I suppose you got that bit right.





Lone Star .... I can help you with that ... the immediate gain is financial (no need to keep paying for intensives you don't need, you are suddenly "clear") and the lasting effect is that you basically know with certainty from that point on that if any wally can wander over to the examiner and attest to "natural clear" it must all be a complete con ... whether you acknowledge that immediately and how you then disentangle yourself from the cult itself is a whole different issue.

PS Also when I attested I felt I had regained the personality I had had prior to getting involved with the cult ... which would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous.

 

[phenomanon]

No I havn't. And thanks.

This indicates the clear cog had some validity.

Of course it had "validity". How many who attested to some kind of clear from 1978 forward stated the cog as a Cog, rather than some words they got from others and parroted so as to be "acknowledged" ? Most.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Of course it had "validity". How many who attested to some kind of clear from 1978 forward stated the cog as a Cog, rather than some words they got from others and parroted so as to be "acknowledged" ? Most.

It feels almost wrong to disagree with you on this (lol, I'm certainly not any kind of clear or natural clear supporter because I know it doesn't exist) but I had never heard the words (of the so called "clear cog") before I attested, I was not parroting anything and did not desire acknowledgement.

I feel now that I was very lucky because I uttered the right words at the right time and the relief knowing I would never again have to wade through dianetic auditing (after attesting) was immense (I disliked it intensely even though I hardly had any at all) but I only discovered that those words were as important as they were when I read something here (ESMB) many years later.

:confused2:

 

[SiriusIncident]

Of course it had "validity". How many who attested to some kind of clear from 1978 forward stated the cog as a Cog, rather than some words they got from others and parroted so as to be "acknowledged" ? Most.

I wonder if social decline in newer generations had the effect where a scientifically driven philosophy about life wasn't encouraged. Clearly OT levels were intended to develop supernatural abilities, not just gains and before OT 8.

"Clears do not get colds." Unless I guess if they're a service facsimile.

 

[JustSheila]

I've always wanted someone to explain what the gains actually are and how they have given him or her a better life. I don't expect you to do this because most Scientologists whether in the cult or outside of it either will not or cannot.

I understand the phenomenon of being "keyed out". But that is a temporary good feeling. I suppose it is a fleeting gain, like being buzzed after drinking two beers. I've always wanted a true believer to explain what the gain is and how it has had lasting impact in making one's life better.

[video=youtube;7Xf-Lesrkuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc[/video]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Drops of Jupiter[/COLOR]
Train





Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey
Tell me did you sail across the sun
Did you make it to the Milky Way to see the lights all faded
And that heaven is overrated
Tell me, did you fall from a shooting star
One without a permanent scar
And did you miss me while you were looking for yourself out there
Now that she's back from that soul vacation
Tracing her way through the constellation, hey, hey
She checks out Mozart while she does tae-bo
Reminds me that there's room to grow, hey, hey

 

[JustSheila]

I've always wanted someone to explain what the gains actually are and how they have given him or her a better life. I don't expect you to do this because most Scientologists whether in the cult or outside of it either will not or cannot.

I understand the phenomenon of being "keyed out". But that is a temporary good feeling. I suppose it is a fleeting gain, like being buzzed after drinking two beers. I've always wanted a true believer to explain what the gain is and how it has had lasting impact in making one's life better.

[video=youtube;0wBDDAZkNtk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wBDDAZkNtk[/video]

People living their lives for you on T.V.
They say they're better than you and you agree
He says "Hold my calls from behind those cold brick walls"
Says "Come here boys, there ain't nothing for free"
Another doctor's bill, a lawyer's bill
Another cute cheap thrill
You know you love him if you put in your will but
Who will save your soul when it comes to the flowers now
Huh huh who will save your soul after all the lies that you told, boy
And who will save your souls if you won't save your own?

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

No I havn't. And thanks.

This indicates the clear cog had some validity.

Yes and no - in a way it is an "you are entirely responsible for your condition" type of cog, so to the extent one comes to realize that, I guess you could be considered a clear of some sort.

But if you take it to mean you have ceased to create this made up reactive mind that Hubbard dreamed up consisting of engrams, secondaries etc. - umm I don't think so.

Yes, there are times in one's life where he or she suffers a loss, had pain and lost consciousness, or was reminded of some painful incident, however, are these woof and warp of the reactive mind? The subconscious mind? Do they have undue influence on a person? Do engramic commands actually rule a person? Have they ruled you? Have you found yourself avoiding places where you have hurt yourself in the past?

If you believe in that book one stuff, if you believe in the CC implant - well, yes I guess it is valid to you, and those who believe as you do. It is a subjective state, and while it may exist in your mind, that doesn't mean it exists for anyone else.

So that's the limit of whatever alleged validity it has.

Mimsey

 

[Gib]

Yes and no - in a way it is an "you are entirely responsible for your condition" type of cog, so to the extent one comes to realize that, I guess you could be considered a clear of some sort.

But if you take it to mean you have ceased to create this made up reactive mind that Hubbard dreamed up consisting of engrams, secondaries etc. - umm I don't think so.

Yes, there are times in one's life where he or she suffers a loss, had pain and lost consciousness, or was reminded of some painful incident, however, are these woof and warp of the reactive mind? The subconscious mind? Do they have undue influence on a person? Do engramic commands actually rule a person? Have they ruled you? Have you found yourself avoiding places where you have hurt yourself in the past?

If you believe in that book one stuff, if you believe in the CC implant - well, yes I guess it is valid to you, and those who believe as you do. It is a subjective state, and while it may exist in your mind, that doesn't mean it exists for anyone else.

So that's the limit of whatever alleged validity it has.

Mimsey

Here's what kind of funny, in all the videos that Marty has done lately, I guess he a super guru that understands dianetics and scientology, and has done a though due indigence.

why all the videos Marty has done he has never addressed the title of the book "going Clear and the prison of belief".

I don't recall Marty ever talking about the state of clear or OT, he just talks about religion.

Same like FZ'ers or indies.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Here's what kind of funny, in all the videos that Marty has done lately, I guess he a super guru that understands dianetics and scientology, and has done a though due indigence.

why all the videos Marty has done he has never addressed the title of the book "going Clear and the prison of belief".

I don't recall Marty ever talking about the state of clear or OT, he just talks about religion.

Same like FZ'ers or indies.

If he and David don't believe in Scientology technology, why would they stoop to defend the tech? All they really want to do is trash talk their detractors. Too bad he couldn't do it with more conviction, he isn't a good enough actor to pull it off. Someone should send a clip to the people who put on the Razzies - He should easily take first place for bad un-reality show acting.

Edit - unless Yingling gets nominated - have they ever awarded a dual award?
Mimsey

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . .
I've been away for a while . . . off the board. This thread got me all confused, between
all the different points of view on the tech, then there were the food fights, and I got all
wrapped around a telephone pole pretty badly.

So I thought I'd start at the beginning of the thread and clay demo the whole thing,
meaningful post by meaningful post.

It's taken me a couple weeks and has filled up a bunch of tables, which my husband
graciously set up in the back yard. One day it got really hot and some of clay pieces
about Mimsey's posts melted. I had to redo them the next day. I think I'm pretty well
caught up to the current discussion.



My conclusion . . . I'm still pretty confused.

Decided to take up knitting. :wink2:

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

. . .
I've been away for a while . . . off the board. This thread got me all confused, between
all the different points of view on the tech, then there were the food fights, and I got all
wrapped around a telephone pole pretty badly.

So I thought I'd start at the beginning of the thread and clay demo the whole thing,
meaningful post by meaningful post.

It's taken me a couple weeks and has filled up a bunch of tables, which my husband
graciously set up in the back yard. One day it got really hot and some of clay pieces
about Mimsey's posts melted. I had to redo them the next day. I think I'm pretty well
caught up to the current discussion.

View attachment 13721

My conclusion . . . I'm still pretty confused.

Decided to take up knitting. :wink2:

Unless my eyes deceive me, there aren't any labels on those pieces. No wonder you are confused. Mimsey

 

[Terril park]

I've always wanted someone to explain what the gains actually are and how they have given him or her a better life. I don't expect you to do this because most Scientologists whether in the cult or outside of it either will not or cannot.

I understand the phenomenon of being "keyed out". But that is a temporary good feeling. I suppose it is a fleeting gain, like being buzzed after drinking two beers. I've always wanted a true believer to explain what the gain is and how it has had lasting impact in making one's life better.

One of my more important gains is greater certainty of self.
That is not a transient gain but long lasting.

 

[strativarius]

One of my more important gains is greater certainty of self.
That is not a transient gain but long lasting.

"Greater certainty of self." Yes, that's exactly the kind of gobbledegook I'd expect a scientologist to utter. I'd struggle to come up with a statement more devoid of real meaning if I tried.

If you had said that you were able to read much faster or that you were no longer colour-blind or something like that then I'd be pleased for you as I would regard those as genuine 'gains', but 'greater certainty of self'? Nope, that doesn't cut it for me, sorry.

You know what Terril, you and your posts frustrate me more than any other member of this MB (and not because of the way you truncate the lines of your posts and squeeze them all along the left hand side of the page). I just keep thinking that if I was just a bit smarter, a little cleverer, I could come up with a sentence or two that would do you a big favour and burst this bubble of self-delusion you (in my opinion) are living in once and for all.

 

[pineapple]

One of my more important gains is greater certainty of self.
That is not a transient gain but long lasting.

Would it be fair to say that "greater certainty of self" translates into wog terms as "greater self-confidence"?

A little while ago I was thinking about what scn actually did for me and how I would state it w/o the sciono-speak, and "greater self-confidence" is what I came up with. I'd say that mainly came from doing TR's. (I did TR's 0-4, or at least OT-TR0 through bullbait, almost every day for 6 1/2 years.) If I put it in one simple phrase, that's it.

 

[Gizmo]

Whoever wrote that dosn't know what gains I had or
anything about them.

And I'm insane for posting that obvious fact?

Whatever you believe for you is, of course, " true for you"& that is whatever ya wanta call it.

What to me is insanity ie when someone makes a judgement & proclaims no one should dare of a judgement of that judgement another made.

You want to think you are " clear " ? Fine, you think ( for a scn'gist ' have great certainty' on ) you are " clear ".

However, if you want others ( not in your cult ) to believe you then that will require proof.

Those that want others to accept their beliefs without proof ? Yeah, I'd call THAT insane, or, if your prefer, a form of insanity.

You want to believe in God ? Good for you !
You want to believe in Y2K ? Good for you !
You want to believe in Satan ? Good for you !
You want to believe in Global Warming ? Good for you !
You want to believe in Clear or Santa Claus or The Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny ? Good for you !
You want to believe the earth is flat ? Good for you !
You believe in anything you want to believe it ! Good for you !

But, my dear man, that you believe whatever you want to believe is just fine, but, others are going to need some proof.

I believe when alone I can levitate out of my chair in my office.
I believe my long dead father still counsels me.
Here's a fun one : I believe every thought that has every been thought, still exists. &, thoughts become things.
How about : we are all one.

You accept my beliefs as true for you, right ?


PS : in my siggy is something I say many times a day because I believe it : ' Ain't life Grand ' !
It doesn't phase me that me some frequency someone will try to piss in face about that belief - either by PM here or out IRL.

And, it's all here & now ? What howls ! But why would I care ?

Terril are you really concerned that I might feel ( I didn't say you are - mods & all that ya know ) you are insane ?

If so, do that fly a rud thing that Ya'll do