A thetan can create another thetan

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
To rephrase that in wog terms: according to Hubbard, a soul can create another soul.

Please note that since there were extensive sections of Hubbard quotes in this Ron's Org tech, I snipped most of the copyrighted Hubbard quotes, and only left in Fair Use short extracts. I don't want to get Emma or ESMB in trouble.

Ron's Org materials are not copyrighted.

Created Thetans



R-Factor -


You will learn in the following LRH tape lectures that a thetan can create another thetan.

The reason for this topic is that you can occasionally run into a Created Thetan in a plug.


In Rons Org materials Captain Bill coined an acronym - MOCO - which stands for "Moment of Creation of Viewpoint". "MOCO" would be as good as any other acronym to represent a Created Thetan, if it was correctly limited to meaning a Created Thetan.

However, within the CBR references as received from the current Ron’s Org, there is quite a bit of Off-Source data being presented. One example is the false and altered data labeling "MOCOs" as being what comprises all mest and all life forms. In other words, the false idea presented in these materials is that each particle of energy, each living cell, etc. is a Created Thetan. The LRH tape lectures we have included show that idea is false.

For further data on this see Off-Source Data in Current Rons Org Materials at our web site ronsorgusa.org.


Therefore, we are not going to use the term MOCO. We prefer the term - Created Thetan.

Also, the handling for "MOCOs" as given in the current Rons Org materials, does not quite line up with LRH references. To compare:



Rons Org Handling

Excerpt from transcript of Tech Briefing 9 by Captain Bill Robertson -

"If you check in the session: "Are you a MOCO?" or "Are you a created viewpoint?" you have the process right there. Moment of creation of viewpoint. That’s what you have to get them back to, and then Boom! Then they go free, or they go back to their creator and join back up with him."

Excerpt from transcript of Tech Briefing 8 by Captain Bill Robertson -

"You must give them that choice. "Return to your Moment of Creation or go free!"



LRH Handling

LRH tape lecture 20 October 1954 The Parts of Man Overt Acts and Motivators -

"An individual could repostulate himself back into his original creative entity-you know, he could just say "I am no longer myself..." Nobody else would influence him to do this, you see. He'd say, "I am no longer this unit. I am now another unit which created me in the first place." You see how he could do that?

Because there is no such thing as time. So, therefore, it must go on continuously and continually as a created existence. "



Corrected Handling for Created Thetans

If you run into a Created Thetan that is part of a plug, tell him that he can now go free, or that if he wants to, he can repostulate himself back into his original creative entity.

"…he could just say "I am no longer myself..." Nobody else would influence him to do this, you see. He'd say, "I am no longer this unit. I am now another unit which created me in the first place"."

Created Thetans also have the rights of a Being –

Right to their sanity
Right to their self-determinism (sometimes referred to as Right to leave a game)

A Created Thetan may originate that he wants to continue to help you. Two-way comm. this, and be sure to let him know he is free to stop and do something else at any time, per the rights of a Being. Remember that Ron once said - no one owes their help, for that is slavery.



Mules

Excerpts from Super Static C/S Course Glossary -

Mule - "A combination of two or more MOCOs … one being the person's own MOCO and the other a friend's or enemy's MOCO. These can be combined by implanting into a MOCO "Sandwich" … One has to run the incident of the "Sandwich" being made (like a Clustering Incident or Mutual Incident) before each separate MOCO can be freed."


Excerpt from transcript of Tech Briefing 8 by Captain Bill Robertson -

"You can understand it as a MULE, right? As two MOCOs put together, all right? "

"So you have to know these data for Excalibur as well - and that is that you free them by finding the incident of them being put together, identify whose MOCOs they are - you can do that first - and then run the incident of them being put together - they must be single to return to their moment of creation. "


Reworded with more accurate terms and handlings that align with LRH tape lectures:

Mule - A combination of two or more Created Thetans, one being the person’s own Created Thetan and the other a friend or enemy’s Created Thetan. These can be combined by implanting into a Created Being "Sandwhich". A Mule is two Created Thetans put together. Each Created Thetan in the Mule has a different creative entity as its source.

Find and run the mutual incident of the two Created Thetans being put together. When single again, then do the handling that aligns with the LRH tape lecture:

Tell him that he can now go free, or that if he wants to, he can repostulate himself back into his original creative entity (creator of the Created Thetan).

"…he could just say "I am no longer myself..." Nobody else would influence him to do this, you see. He'd say, "I am no longer this unit. I am now another unit which created me in the first place."



Clones

Excerpts from Super Static C/S Course Glossary -

Clone – "This is a MOCO who… could serve as a substitute or missionaire for the Player. They usually want to debrief before going free or returning to the moment of their creation."


Reworded with more accurate terms and handlings that align with LRH tape lectures:

A Clone is a Created Thetan who could serve as a substitute or missionaire for the creative entity (creator of the Created Thetan). If he wants to debrief, let him, then do the handling that aligns with the LRH tape lecture:

Tell him that he can now go free, or that if he wants to, he can repostulate himself back into his original creative entity (creator of the Created Thetan).

"…he could just say "I am no longer myself..." Nobody else would influence him to do this, you see. He'd say, "I am no longer this unit. I am now another unit which created me in the first place"."


The Clone may originate that he wants to continue to help you, and want a new "mission" or game. Two-way comm. this, and be sure to let him know he is free to stop and do something else at any time, per the rights of a Being.



LRH References on Created Thetans

LRH tape lecture 7 April 1959 Universes -

< snip long section of Hubbard quote, just leaving the key final part of the quote >

"The truth of the matter-which I'm not going to thrust down your throat-is, apparently, that you are you. And I won't say that's all you are, but that is definitely indicated by all the facts."


LRH tape lecture 20 October 1954 The Parts of Man Overt Acts and Motivators -

"Now, this mustn't be confused with another function of the thetan, another action, another ability. He can actually create another thetan, just like that, bang! He can duplicate himself. That is to say, he can give birth to or create or bring into being an entirely different life unit - an entirely new, different life unit-which in its turn can have a full personality, which can have full determinism, which can do everything and anything that he himself can do and can be as powerful as himself, or more powerful than himself, according to its endowment.

If he created something with this intention, "This is now more powerful than myself," he then would have to observe its actions and activities, independently undertaken, and then have to modify and cut down his own so as to always have less power than he had granted."

"Basically, the thetan can simply create, without any system, another living being. Now, there's an important thing. This is an ability of the thetan. But it is not a part of the thetan."

< snip long section of Hubbard quote, continue below >

In other words, this thetan could have made five thetans, played a football game, decided which one was the winner, and then have become the winner. And each one of the five playing could have then become just the winner, and they would not have lost either their identity or anything else.

The only thing they could possibly lose, and they'd have to shut that off for themselves, would be their knowingness that they had done it. But to have done it at all requires that they would have had to have shut off their knowingness of doing it.

You recover an individual's knowingness, one of the first things you would recover is the fact that he has occasionally multiplied himself."



MEST is not Thetans

Definition from the Super Static C/S Course Glossary -

"Phi Thetan – MEST Thetan."

The RO materials state that Phi thetans are a type of MOCO.

Rons Org materials on the subject of MOCOs, such as the above definition of Phi Thetan, can give a person a wrong impression that MEST is composed of Phi thetans.

Thus some Rons Org terminals circulate the false datum that MEST is thetans.
They cite Scientology axiom 48 as stating this idea:

“Life is a game wherein theta as the static solves the problems of theta as MEST”

These people have a misunderstood on what the word “as” means in that sentence.
The definition of “as” in that sentence is – in the identity of, doing the actions of.



The following LRH references make it clear that MEST is not thetans:


From page 142 of the LRH book Notes on the Lectures –

“one could consider that first there is theta, then there is lambda, and then there is Phi, which is MEST.”


From page 192 of the LRH book The Phoenix Lectures ––

“What is this MEST? We find that an interested thetan is a thetan, but an interesting thetan has become MEST. What is MEST? Well, it’s actually simply a composite of energies and particles and spaces which are agreed upon and which are looked at.

We have the difference between inflow and outflow. A thetan who is being interested is simply outflowing. Interested – outflowing. Interesting – inflowing. He wants the attention of others to flow in to him: interesting. That’s MEST. Attention of others flows to it. That doesn’t tell you that all MEST is is a series of trapped thetans.”



A thetan can consider himself to be anything. Anything he can see, he can be. Thus he can consider himself to be MEST and the BTs and clusters that are being handled on Excalibur often do consider themselves to be MEST. However, that does not make them MEST, nor does it make MEST into a Thetan.

It is simply a consideration that is a lie. On Excalibur you get them back into valence, being himself - that means he knows he is a Being and that he is not whatever false identity he had previously assumed unwittingly - and then got stuck in.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Scientology does not have a unique hold on the concept that "spirit" is further capable of splitting itself into new entities that are not "sub" the original. The fundamental problem is that these "new" entities do not have the sense of connection to the whole of the universe's life force, and like the rest of us, live lives of spritual disconnection.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
Who, exactly, are you, OTBT? Where did you get this stuff from? And are you the original writer of this or have you just copied it from somewhere. I'd be very interested to know where i can see more.

The site listed, ronsorgusa.org, is just a page of advertising. No data there.

Regards, Allen
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
Who, exactly, are you, OTBT? Where did you get this stuff from? And are you the original writer of this or have you just copied it from somewhere. I'd be very interested to know where i can see more.

The site listed, ronsorgusa.org, is just a page of advertising. No data there.

Regards, Allen

I'm an ex-scientologist. Ex as in EX.

In my opinion, it is good to get all of scientology's documents out in the open, freely available on the internet, for anyone to read and make up their own mind. That includes Freezone docs as well.

I didn't write this stuff. It's copied & pasted from Ron's Org version of Excalibur, which is kinda their version of upper OT levels.

Excalibur was leaked in this WWP thread:

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/leak-excalibur-ot-8-rons-org-70816/

For those of you who don't like reading WWP, here is the direct download link for Excalibur, which is 1.15 MB:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5FJT1GWL
.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
This bit about a thetan being able to create another thetan did not come from Ron's Org. L. Rum Tubbard said this his own self in a taped lecture. Yep. He said it. Then he added, "Now you know all there is to know about valences, too," or something like that.

And now we know all about endless OT-3 and -7, too.

From the Admin perspective, "Whatever got the stats up will get the stats up."

"Teach them to make money..."

From this perspective churchies certainly look like dupes, don't they?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
This bit about a thetan being able to create another thetan did not come from Ron's Org. L. Rum Tubbard said this his own self in a taped lecture. Yep. He said it. Then he added, "Now you know all there is to know about valences, too," or something like that.

And now we know all about endless OT-3 and -7, too.

From the Admin perspective, "Whatever got the stats up will get the stats up."

"Teach them to make money..."

From this perspective churchies certainly look like dupes, don't they?

Exactly.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yes, Hubbard did say that in 1954. He said tens of millions of other words of a whole load of other crap too. He's the one-man-band of the large number of monkeys eventually typing out the works of Shakespeare [infinite monkey theorem].

The thing is that he didn't repeat this much, that I know of. The idea was completely new to me when I first came across it in that tape while doing a SHSBC Level B checksheet in 1985. And I don't recall him mentioning it elsewhere.

I believe Hubbard's "position" — if you ignore the hedging remark in that tape — is that an individual thetan is trillions or quadrillions of years old. Personally, I'll go along with Dr. Michael Newton's research on the matter, and put the figure for beings running bodies on Earth and reading ESMB at nearer tens or hundreds of thousands of years old.

Paul
 

AnonKat

Crusader
movie

Reminds me a bit of a Movie were the soul of a passed away buddhist monk was found again in 5 children 1 from each continent. It was him making a joke of mortality and reïncarnation of some sorts.


To rephrase that in wog terms: according to Hubbard, a soul can create another soul.

Please note that since there were extensive sections of Hubbard quotes in this Ron's Org tech, I snipped most of the copyrighted Hubbard quotes, and only left in Fair Use short extracts. I don't want to get Emma or ESMB in trouble.

Ron's Org materials are not copyrighted.



< snip long section of Hubbard quote, just leaving the key final part of the quote >



< snip long section of Hubbard quote, continue below >
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yes, Hubbard did say that in 1954. He said tens of millions of other words of a whole load of other crap too. He's the one-man-band of the large number of monkeys eventually typing out the works of Shakespeare [infinite monkey theorem].

The thing is that he didn't repeat this much, that I know of. The idea was completely new to me when I first came across it in that tape while doing a SHSBC Level B checksheet in 1985. And I don't recall him mentioning it elsewhere.

I believe Hubbard's "position" — if you ignore the hedging remark in that tape — is that an individual thetan is trillions or quadrillions of years old. Personally, I'll go along with Dr. Michael Newton's research on the matter, and put the figure for beings running bodies on Earth and reading ESMB at nearer tens or hundreds of thousands of years old.

Paul

I think thetans are about 59 years old.

They were created by L Ron Hubbard and were born in this universe right around that time.

Any entity that is truly immortal, however, would not have an age.

Because to have a death you would have to have a birth.

If you are immortal you do not have a death. And since you do not have a death if you are immortal, you do not have a birth either.

That would be the logic connected to immortality.

Or are you suggesting there is an entity that does have a death and a birth, but simply lasts longer than the span of one body?

I don't get it.

Pleas esplain.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I think thetans are about 59 years old.

They were created by L Ron Hubbard and were born in this universe right around that time.

Any entity that is truly immortal, however, would not have an age.

Because to have a death you would have to have a birth.

If you are immortal you do not have a death. And since you do not have a death if you are immortal, you do not have a birth either.

That would be the logic connected to immortality.

Or are you suggesting there is an entity that does have a death and a birth, but simply lasts longer than the span of one body?

I don't get it.

I don't know how much I am willing to explain here of Newton's research, especially since I've said it all before on that thread, but we'll see. What he found (not his ideas) is that beings exist outside the time stream in what I'll call the spirit world. It is a highly structured place, with the equivalent of friends, soulmates, groups, classes, buildings, machines, purposes, "work" and "leisure" activities and so forth. He calls this "Life-Between-Lives."

Beings sometimes enter the time stream and pick up bodies on Earth. They do this by sort-of splitting their energy, maybe leaving 30-70% "up there" and the rest here on Earth during that particular incarnation. It is not at all the case that when one is running a body one is "down here" and not "up there", and vice versa — not at all the Hubbard scenario of it's all on Earth and then you die, and God help you because you have to escape the Marcab Between-Lives Implanters, and then you pretty soon go and pick up another body, and the period between death and birth is a sort of hazy limbo (apart from maybe being implanted if you hadn't paid Hubbard enough).

So someone, in a spiritual sense, can be both down here and "up there." If your friend or relative died on Earth, they (as a spiritual being) went back to the spirit world, and their energy coalesced with their "higher self" and they became whole again. If they, five years later, went and picked up another body on Earth, you can still communicate with the part of the being "up there", although the bit split off and engaged in another life on Earth is probably not going to be too receptive to you.

Newton is not too specific on the "age" thingy, but my interpretation from what he has written is as I said before. How one puts an age to someone outside the time stream is difficult, but I did it by counting it as 100,000 years if the being's first incarnation on Earth was 100,000 years ago. It's not exact but one has to start somewhere. He describes the "birthing" process to some extent.

There's whole heaps more, but I'm not going to put it in this post.

By "thetan" I mean the immortal spiritual part of a person, not particularly as Hubbard described it. He was all over the place on the matter, and called different things "thetan" as his ideas and maybe drug prescriptions changed.

Paul
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I don't know how much I am willing to explain here of Newton's research, especially since I've said it all before on that thread, but we'll see. What he found (not his ideas) is that beings exist outside the time stream in what I'll call the spirit world. It is a highly structured place, with the equivalent of friends, soulmates, groups, classes, buildings, machines, purposes, "work" and "leisure" activities and so forth. He calls this "Life-Between-Lives."

Beings sometimes enter the time stream and pick up bodies on Earth. They do this by sort-of splitting their energy, maybe leaving 30-70% "up there" and the rest here on Earth during that particular incarnation. It is not at all the case that when one is running a body one is "down here" and not "up there", and vice versa — not at all the Hubbard scenario of it's all on Earth and then you die, and God help you because you have to escape the Marcab Between-Lives Implanters, and then you pretty soon go and pick up another body, and the period between death and birth is a sort of hazy limbo (apart from maybe being implanted if you hadn't paid Hubbard enough).

So someone, in a spiritual sense, can be both down here and "up there." If your friend or relative died on Earth, they (as a spiritual being) went back to the spirit world, and their energy coalesced with their "higher self" and they became whole again. If they, five years later, went and picked up another body on Earth, you can still communicate with the part of the being "up there", although the bit split off and engaged in another life on Earth is probably not going to be too receptive to you.

Newton is not too specific on the "age" thingy, but my interpretation from what he has written is as I said before. How one puts an age to someone outside the time stream is difficult, but I did it by counting it as 100,000 years if the being's first incarnation on Earth was 100,000 years ago. It's not exact but one has to start somewhere. He describes the "birthing" process to some extent.

There's whole heaps more, but I'm not going to put it in this post.

By "thetan" I mean the immortal spiritual part of a person, not particularly as Hubbard described it. He was all over the place on the matter, and called different things "thetan" as his ideas and maybe drug prescriptions changed.

Paul
All right.

Thank you for taking the time to explain it again.

I like that explanation. I can find a lot of meaning in it.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
from the material cited above by OTBT

In other words, this thetan could have made five thetans, played a football game, decided which one was the winner, and then have become the winner. And each one of the five playing could have then become just the winner, and they would not have lost either their identity or anything else.

The only thing they could possibly lose, and they'd have to shut that off for themselves, would be their knowingness that they had done it. But to have done it at all requires that they would have had to have shut off their knowingness of doing it.

You recover an individual's knowingness, one of the first things you would recover is the fact that he has occasionally multiplied himself."

When I was doing grades processing I reached a state of knowingness where I realized I was running 6 bodies concurrently on this planet. It was the most uncomplicated thing. I just had a not know postulate regarding each. Yet I was running each. I was different ages and sex and one life is in Australia. It really did blow out any concerns about 'mortality' to experience something like this first hand. And to me it was also a great sense of 'having'. Abundance! :happydance: The abundance of selves!!

On a negative side, I at one time found this to be problematic when another tried to pull a plug (unmock the viewpoint) on a self from a point 'above' and outside of time. The things we do to each other when playing a meaner game. :angry: This caused a reaction I have long been curious about. Of course this was a blow intended for 'ME' despite my considerations not to know. An intended rattling of chains even though directed at the created selves or my established vectors of operation. Tough... as we all respect each others decisions not to know at this level of assuming the position on Earth and do seldom find any overt demand that we confront ourselves as the creator of alternate sources to experience from. The best kept secret from ourselves. It really jammed things. You would think that only 'yourself' would have the ability to pull the plug on one of your created vectors you are operating from. :nervous: And I'm not talking about bodies, I'm talking about beings. :unsure:
 
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Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
from the material cited above by OTBT



When I was doing grades processing I reached a state of knowingness where I realized I was running 6 bodies concurrently on this planet. It was the most uncomplicated thing. I just had a not know postulate regarding each. Yet I was running each. I was different ages and sex and one life is in Australia. It really did blow out any concerns about 'mortality' to experience something like this first hand. And to me it was also a great sense of 'having'. Abundance! :happydance: The abundance of selves!!

On a negative side, I at one time found this to be problematic when another tried to pull a plug (unmock the viewpoint) on a self from a point 'above' and outside of time. The things we do to each other when playing a meaner game. :angry: This caused a reaction I have long been curious about. Of course this was a blow intended for 'ME' despite my considerations not to know. An intended rattling of chains even though directed at the created selves or my established vectors of operation. Tough... as we all respect each others decisions not to know at this level of assuming the position on Earth and do seldom find any overt demand that we confront ourselves as the creator of alternate sources to experience from. The best kept secret from ourselves. It really jammed things. You would think that only 'yourself' would have the ability to pull the plug on one of your created vectors you are operating from. :nervous: And I'm not talking about bodies, I'm talking about beings. :unsure:

What exactly was the reaction Hats?
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't know how much I am willing to explain here of Newton's research, especially since I've said it all before on that thread, but we'll see. What he found (not his ideas) is that beings exist outside the time stream in what I'll call the spirit world. It is a highly structured place, with the equivalent of friends, soulmates, groups, classes, buildings, machines, purposes, "work" and "leisure" activities and so forth. He calls this "Life-Between-Lives."

Beings sometimes enter the time stream and pick up bodies on Earth. They do this by sort-of splitting their energy, maybe leaving 30-70% "up there" and the rest here on Earth during that particular incarnation. It is not at all the case that when one is running a body one is "down here" and not "up there", and vice versa — not at all the Hubbard scenario of it's all on Earth and then you die, and God help you because you have to escape the Marcab Between-Lives Implanters, and then you pretty soon go and pick up another body, and the period between death and birth is a sort of hazy limbo (apart from maybe being implanted if you hadn't paid Hubbard enough).

So someone, in a spiritual sense, can be both down here and "up there." If your friend or relative died on Earth, they (as a spiritual being) went back to the spirit world, and their energy coalesced with their "higher self" and they became whole again. If they, five years later, went and picked up another body on Earth, you can still communicate with the part of the being "up there", although the bit split off and engaged in another life on Earth is probably not going to be too receptive to you.

Newton is not too specific on the "age" thingy, but my interpretation from what he has written is as I said before. How one puts an age to someone outside the time stream is difficult, but I did it by counting it as 100,000 years if the being's first incarnation on Earth was 100,000 years ago. It's not exact but one has to start somewhere. He describes the "birthing" process to some extent.

There's whole heaps more, but I'm not going to put it in this post.

By "thetan" I mean the immortal spiritual part of a person, not particularly as Hubbard described it. He was all over the place on the matter, and called different things "thetan" as his ideas and maybe drug prescriptions changed.

Paul


I gave the hubbard thing my all. Sometimes things were revealed, but most often not.

As you have written above, these are my findings as well. That does not mean I am right; it does not mean that's all there is; it does not mean someone else should not have different findings. It just means that I have reached the same or similar conclusions on my own.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I used to think a spirit, thetan, whatever you want to call it, couldn't create another spirit. Now I think I might have been wrong.

Believe me, it's a refreshing novelty. :coolwink:
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
I used to think a spirit, thetan, whatever you want to call it, couldn't create another spirit. Now I think I might have been wrong.

Believe me, it's a refreshing novelty. :coolwink:


"Thetan" is a concept of mind. It was hubbard's effort to explain spirit. Spirit is something that is; spirit is experienced; spirit needs no explanation.

Mind is an automaticity. It can serve up thetan after thetan after thetan. You want it, you get it. You don't want it, you get it anyway.

Gee. I hope that make some sense.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
I didn't write this stuff. It's copied & pasted from Ron's Org version of Excalibur, which is kinda their version of upper OT levels.

Excalibur was leaked in this WWP thread:

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/leak-excalibur-ot-8-rons-org-70816/

For those of you who don't like reading WWP, here is the direct download link for Excalibur, which is 1.15 MB:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5FJT1GWL
.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT IS NOT EXCALIBUR - IT'S BATSHIT CRAZY MIKE MC CAUFREY'S SQUIRREL VERSION OF EXCAL.

So if you are going to post something, best you get the correct version...

Regards, Allen
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT IS NOT EXCALIBUR - IT'S BATSHIT CRAZY MIKE MC CAUFREY'S SQUIRREL VERSION OF EXCAL.

So if you are going to post something, best you get the correct version...

Regards, Allen

Oh. You mean batshit crazy Bill Robertson's on-source version?

Paul
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
How did we create ourselves??

Ok, spirits can create other spirits. How did we create ourselves?? Anyone know?
 
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