A Thumb Nail Sketch of L Ron Hubbard

fisherman

Patron with Honors
We got home with our puppy today! We had fantastic overnight trip to a beautiful part of Maine

Lakey, the first time I used "Lake" as an endearmnet was a long while back! I often give friendly nicknames to my close irl friends, but would never be so casual with an acquaintance. I do talk to close friends about the topics we cover on ESMB, but would never discuss religion or philosophy with an acquaintance. That's an interesting snapshot of Internet sociology. So, while we're really only acquainted, I'm happy to consider it a rather friendly acquaintance!

Judaism/Christianity:

Lake wrote,

In Buddhism for instance, there is no person such as a personal God. You are encouraged to meditate, quite yourself down and look within yourself to recover answers. There is a concept of a cosmic linkage where all living things are connected in the manner of a large net or a very large box spring mattress.

Saint Augustine believed this and he was no slouch as a Christian!

Enlightenment Christians, including most of the founding fathers basically shared this view. For them, God was the great clockmaker who set things in motion and then stepped out of the picture. Many rejected Jesus' divinity and those who maintained belief in the trinity considered Christ's actions something that happened way in the past. They were seen as part of God's clock-making apparatus. Few to none thought of Jesus as immediately available, the way evangelicals do today. Jesus was the savior, because he fulfilled the clock-making, he was not considered a personal friend to be called upon.

But more to your point, the gnostic impulse you describe had enormous prominence in Christianity at various times. To the extent that Jesus was viewed as a second Buddha. These gnostic elements were the reason for the Inquistion. Heretical ideas had become so prominent in the monastic orders that the Catholic church felt the need to root them out. And this, of course, gave rise to Martin Luther.

My point is that these speculative impulses have always figured prominently in Christianity and still do. They arise out of man's attempt to understand his universe and probably can't be segregated as "Eastern" or "Western."

Currently, the most prevalent conception of Christianity that encompasses Jesus in a manger, God as an old man with a white beard, the trinity, etc. is simply ONE very homogenized portrayal. This evangelical conception of Christianity is widely known because of modern media, but it's NOT the most widely recognized or historically influential.

I'm not qualified to debate the finer points of Eastern ideas vs Christian gnosticism. However, the Jesuit professors I trained under could go a full ten rounds on the subject and not break a sweat. Still, I'm not trying to say one thing is "better" than another. My only point is that the things westerners seek in eastern thought exists in western religion.

As an academic interest, I've also studied Jewish intellectual thought and particularly kabala. Again, I'm far from expert here, but the rabbis I've learned from are pretty much agreed that:

Kabala can (and has) been used to justify any and every mystical notion within man's conception. I'm pretty certain that even Xenu is covered somewhere in the enigmatic writings encompassing Kabala.

Kabala is a fascinating subject and I don't mean to slight it in the least. But it is the original, "what's true is true for you." I guess that means LRH must have memorized and used it. It's certainly no surprise to me that Kabala would appeal to celebrities. Whatever Madonna says about Kabala is true. And everything she doesn't say about Kabala, is also true.

Taking Kabala as the extreme example, my only point is that the mystical interests of someone pursuing eastern ideas are well covered in Judaism.

And really, what is Christianity but the work of eastern mystics? Jesus was a rabbi, so were his disciples. They were drawn to the gnostic influences of the Essenes and the teachings of John the Baptist.

I deeply admire the spiritual and intellectual forces in all these religions and sincerely hope nothing I've written sounds offending. In truth, I'm the one who is offended by the ignorant remarks I see on message boards. Not here at ESMB, but my home-base WWP is often particularly caustic. Anyone who describes the Christian Eucharist as representative of a "cannibalistic space-cult" simply doesn't know what their talking about. It's not my religion that's offended, it's my intellectual integrity.

Lake, I did read your other categories, but I'll save commenting for later.

fisherman
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
FoTi: There was method to Face's apparent madness which makes sense. If you have already read the post, it would seem to me to just skip to the next post and not bother to read it over again. That's a small price to pay to have Face reach both of his target audiences.
Lakey


Thank you, Lakey.

I don't have any "target audiences".

I've been posting on ESMB to sincerely open my heart and mind to others and dialogue with others of open and sincere heart and mind.

Perhaps I have made a mistake and didn't realize that folks are here to entertain and put on a show for others.

I think it's time I take a step back for awhile and assess what I’m doing here.

I’ve gained much from ESMB but I didn't come here seeking an "audience" or to put on a show to attract attention.

Your Friend Always,

Face:)
 
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Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you, Lakey.

I don't have any "target audiences".

I've been posting on ESMB to sincerely open my heart and mind to others and dialogue with others of open and sincere heart and mind.

Perhaps I have made a mistake and didn't realize that folks are here to entertain and put on a show for others.

I think it's time I take a step back for awhile and assess what I’m doing here.

I’ve gained much from ESMB but I didn't come here seeking an "audience" or to put on a show to attract attention.

Your Friend Always,

Face:)

Face, you have not made a mistake.
Lakey came in with the ANNOUNCED idea that a thread that he created was "his" thread. .that he is the "host" of that thread... That he wants to have the longest thread on ESMB...and to that end he is keeping statistics.
( that's the 1973 Apollo thread)
No matter that it lives on old movies and albums and scenes that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of scientology.
Different strokes for different folks. The ones who continue the thread are having a good time with themselves. Let 'em rock on widdoutchu.

Challenge
 

FoTi

Crusader
Thank you, Lakey.

I don't have any "target audiences".

I've been posting on ESMB to sincerely open my heart and mind to others and dialogue with others of open and sincere heart and mind.

Perhaps I have made a mistake and didn't realize that folks are here to entertain and put on a show for others.

I think it's time I take a step back for awhile and assess what I’m doing here.

I’ve gained much from ESMB but I didn't come here seeking an "audience" or to put on a show to attract attention.

Your Friend Always,

Face:)

Face, you have not made a mistake. Most folks are not here to entertain and put on a show for others, but sometimes people do put up things that are fun and light and educational, especially on the Apollo thread. I think it's because some have been there a while and it's kind of like meeting in someone's livingroom to talk a while and people's personalities start showing up, and we all like some fun once in a while. I enjoy hearing about people's lives and what interesting things they find to show to others. But the main reason I come to ESMB is to follow what is going on with the unraveling of Scientology and to hear what other people's experiences have been with Scientology and how they are doing now and what methods they might have used to help themselves or others recover.

The Apollo thread has been a life saver for me with Roger B's posts on his knowledge of the tech he knows. He has rescued me several times from the soup of my own confusion and made a huge difference in my life. I have never viewed anyone being on the Apollo thread for entertainment purposes. I feel that people come on that thread to learn from others and offer whatever they have to contribute. But I also look through other threads to see what info I might be missing out on. There are always new people showing up here on ESMB with more new information.

Please don't go away, Face. I enjoy reading your posts. You are one of the valuable posters on the Apollo thread and I would hate to lose out on the things you have to say. I value your being there and sharing what you have to share. I don't want to lose you.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Fair enough Fish

We got home with our puppy today! We had fantastic overnight trip to a beautiful part of Maine

Lakey, the first time I used "Lake" as an endearmnet was a long while back! I often give friendly nicknames to my close irl friends, but would never be so casual with an acquaintance. I do talk to close friends about the topics we cover on ESMB, but would never discuss religion or philosophy with an acquaintance. That's an interesting snapshot of Internet sociology. So, while we're really only acquainted, I'm happy to consider it a rather friendly acquaintance!

Judaism/Christianity:

Lake wrote,



Saint Augustine believed this and he was no slouch as a Christian!

Enlightenment Christians, including most of the founding fathers basically shared this view. For them, God was the great clockmaker who set things in motion and then stepped out of the picture. Many rejected Jesus' divinity and those who maintained belief in the trinity considered Christ's actions something that happened way in the past. They were seen as part of God's clock-making apparatus. Few to none thought of Jesus as immediately available, the way evangelicals do today. Jesus was the savior, because he fulfilled the clock-making, he was not considered a personal friend to be called upon.

But more to your point, the gnostic impulse you describe had enormous prominence in Christianity at various times. To the extent that Jesus was viewed as a second Buddha. These gnostic elements were the reason for the Inquistion. Heretical ideas had become so prominent in the monastic orders that the Catholic church felt the need to root them out. And this, of course, gave rise to Martin Luther.

My point is that these speculative impulses have always figured prominently in Christianity and still do. They arise out of man's attempt to understand his universe and probably can't be segregated as "Eastern" or "Western."

Currently, the most prevalent conception of Christianity that encompasses Jesus in a manger, God as an old man with a white beard, the trinity, etc. is simply ONE very homogenized portrayal. This evangelical conception of Christianity is widely known because of modern media, but it's NOT the most widely recognized or historically influential.

I'm not qualified to debate the finer points of Eastern ideas vs Christian gnosticism. However, the Jesuit professors I trained under could go a full ten rounds on the subject and not break a sweat. Still, I'm not trying to say one thing is "better" than another. My only point is that the things westerners seek in eastern thought exists in western religion.

As an academic interest, I've also studied Jewish intellectual thought and particularly kabala. Again, I'm far from expert here, but the rabbis I've learned from are pretty much agreed that:

Kabala can (and has) been used to justify any and every mystical notion within man's conception. I'm pretty certain that even Xenu is covered somewhere in the enigmatic writings encompassing Kabala.

Kabala is a fascinating subject and I don't mean to slight it in the least. But it is the original, "what's true is true for you." I guess that means LRH must have memorized and used it. It's certainly no surprise to me that Kabala would appeal to celebrities. Whatever Madonna says about Kabala is true. And everything she doesn't say about Kabala, is also true.

Taking Kabala as the extreme example, my only point is that the mystical interests of someone pursuing eastern ideas are well covered in Judaism.

And really, what is Christianity but the work of eastern mystics? Jesus was a rabbi, so were his disciples. They were drawn to the gnostic influences of the Essenes and the teachings of John the Baptist.

I deeply admire the spiritual and intellectual forces in all these religions and sincerely hope nothing I've written sounds offending. In truth, I'm the one who is offended by the ignorant remarks I see on message boards. Not here at ESMB, but my home-base WWP is often particularly caustic. Anyone who describes the Christian Eucharist as representative of a "cannibalistic space-cult" simply doesn't know what their talking about. It's not my religion that's offended, it's my intellectual integrity.

Lake, I did read your other categories, but I'll save commenting for later.

fisherman

Fisherman, I know next to nothing about Christianity and thank you for your above primer, so to speak! Wasn't the Council of Nicea of 325 A.D. a watershed moment in Christain history where the Catholic faction of Christianity outvoted the factions which you mention in your post which had closer ties to certain forms of Judaism as well as Eastern Religions. Today's garden variety Christians learn very little about what their religion's background is and what the doctrines are all about. They are simply told to accept Christ as their personal savior and let his love run through them and then they are guaranteed a blissful salvation. I'm sure this is a vast simplification but isn't it basically true?
Lake
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Thank you, Lakey.

I don't have any "target audiences".

I've been posting on ESMB to sincerely open my heart and mind to others and dialogue with others of open and sincere heart and mind.

Perhaps I have made a mistake and didn't realize that folks are here to entertain and put on a show for others.

I think it's time I take a step back for awhile and assess what I’m doing here.

I’ve gained much from ESMB but I didn't come here seeking an "audience" or to put on a show to attract attention.

Your Friend Always,

Face:)

By two different audiences I simply meant the Apollo thread crowd and the crowd here on the main part of the board. There is some overlap but to reach a bigger group of those interested, posting in both areas of the board will get you a few extra readers. I did not mean to infer that you were targetting specific audiences.

Your doing fine with your posting, superlatively fine. Just keep it up. I certainly had no intention to cause you to do self reflection or revise your priorities. Everyone on ESMB needs your posts. They are extremely valuable!~
Lakey
 
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auntpat

Patron with Honors
NOPE

No, Lakey it is not true. I am, and many of my friends are "today's Christians" , We read and seek enlightment. My seach was started in a Baptist church.

I was encouraged to search for answers to questions that my Minister could or would not answer. Of course my search led to new questions.

I have a very personal relationship with Jesus, he comforts and guides me. I also ask for guidence from the Holy Spirit who in my understanding is the wisdom of the Trinity. Of course God is love that makes us all one.

My leaving $cn before the shit hit the fan was due to my gift of perception from God. I shall always be grateful.

Light and Love,
Pat
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Thank you, Lakey.

I don't have any "target audiences".

I've been posting on ESMB to sincerely open my heart and mind to others and dialogue with others of open and sincere heart and mind.

Perhaps I have made a mistake and didn't realize that folks are here to entertain and put on a show for others.

I think it's time I take a step back for awhile and assess what I’m doing here.

I’ve gained much from ESMB but I didn't come here seeking an "audience" or to put on a show to attract attention.

Your Friend Always,

Face:)

Whether you seek an audience you've got one :)

I wantz moar.

Zinj
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lakey and FoTi,

I think the world of both of you. Here’s where I’m coming from:

FoTi addressed Lakey as to why I was posting something on this thread and on the Apollo ’73 thread at the same time.

My view is that no one on this board controls what I post, when I post or where I post.

I answered FoTi, very specifically, why I was doing that and the fact that I had, on three previous occasions, done that and referenced at that time why I was doing so.

Lakey answers FoTi, for me that it had to do with “target audiences”.

My response to FoTi, which was posted before Lakey’s response for me to FoTi, said nothing about “target audiences”. It said that basically I was involved with a dialogue string here, with Fisherman, and the “framing” I have been posting by installments, was also the same “framing” that I have been posting in installments on the Apollo ’73 thread.

I have already written a lengthy post on the Apollo ’73 thread as to why I have to post in installments and why it is sometimes days between those installments.

I’m not trying to “reach bigger groups”…that doesn’t mean doodoo to me. I’ve written on several occasions why I like posting on the “73 thread and it has nothing to do with a “big audience”. It has everything to do with the quality of folks that are consistently active there (like Lakey and FoTi); the fact that I know the Apollo inside out, backwards and forwards; the fact that a number of the folks there are from my “Era” of Scn; the fact that I have much to say about what I saw as an “insider” but, due to my limited capacity for reading and writing, can’t handle a thread of my own in a timely courteous manner in regards to responses.

Not a day goes by that I don’t read at least half a dozen things in threads on this board (including this one and ’73) that I would love to dialogue with some of the posters or OP. I just can’t do it all. So I “picked a spot” on Apollo '73 and have been plodding my way to get all that’s sitting in my head out on this board as I have, due to circumstances, information that can provide “context” for others here that were not an “insider”.

Context is important to me. That’s why I’m telling all these stories. Context fosters understanding; Context augers meaning; Context makes time, place, form and event relevant; Context is the only way, in my opinion, to come to terms with and, ultimately, beneficial resolution of and personal growth from the experience of El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn.

I’m spending the time here on this thread to give context, in my own way of communicating, to Fisherman regarding just what I was doing and why with El Ron and Scn. Eventually, as long as there continued to be some interest, I was going to give that context on the ’73 thread, but Fisherman “hooked me" and I skipped ahead...he’s a very intelligent, thoughtful, educated and sincere guy. He deserves, in my way of viewing the world, the respect and courtesy of a forthright and diligent effort on my part, as long as he has interest. It has been very rewarding to me to try and "frame" the context to my personal "What and Why" re: El Ron, et al for a non Scn.

I know Lakey and FoTi are not here to put on a show or play to an audience…and most of the folks on the ’73 thread and ESMB aren’t either. But, asking others as to why I’m doing something on this board, which I've already explained, and then others answering for me, when I have already answered, rubs me the wrong way.

I came to ESMB and the Apollo ’73 thread to learn, to dialogue, to share my “take” and to add to the Body of Context that was withheld from Us and that we, as decent and well intended people justly and rightly deserved in the beginning.

I will finish what I have personally committed myself to doing…I will finish, over time, my installments of context and “take”. I am going to step back for a few days, take a “breather” and reflect on where and how the remainder—outside of my current dialogue and process on this thread—should be posted. Most likely it will be on the Apollo ’73 thread but I, and my thoughts, are not owned property and ESMB may be gone in four months.

The Universe saw fit to return my Breath of Life and restore, more and more, my memory and ability to read and write. As long as I have that breath, as long as I can communicate, my purpose is to give context as best I am able and my two chosen tasks at the moment are my book—which is getting way to little attention— and the “purging” of my “take” re: El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn which has been consuming my limited available reading/writing attention.

I am so blessed to be able to provide unique context to the Body of Knowledge that may be helpful to others in finding there own personal context and meaning about El Ron, et al.

I am also blessed to be able to, someday, finish telling the story of my own death…which I endeavor to not greatly exaggerate...well, not too much anyway.:coolwink:

I appreciate you, Lakey and you, FoTi…and all y’all more than you will ever know.:yes:

Face:)
 
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Lakey and FoTi,

I think the world of both of you. Here’s where I’m coming from:

FoTi addressed Lakey as to why I was posting something on this thread and on the Apollo ’73 thread at the same time.

My view is that no one on this board controls what I post, when I post or where I post.

I answered FoTi, very specifically, why I was doing that and the fact that I had, on three previous occasions, done that and referenced at that time why I was doing so.

Lakey answers FoTi, for me that it had to do with “target audiences”.

My response to FoTi, which was posted before Lakey’s response for me to FoTi, said nothing about “target audiences”. It said that basically I was involved with a dialogue string here, with Fisherman, and the “framing” I have been posting by installments, was also the same “framing” that I have been posting in installments on the Apollo ’73 thread.

I have already written a lengthy post on the Apollo ’73 thread as to why I have to post in installments and why it is sometimes days between those installments.

I’m not trying to “reach bigger groups”…that doesn’t mean doodoo to me. I’ve written on several occasions why I like posting on the “73 thread and it has nothing to do with a “big audience”. It has everything to do with the quality of folks that are consistently active there (like Lakey and FoTi); the fact that I know the Apollo inside out, backwards and forwards; the fact that a number of the folks there are from my “Era” of Scn; the fact that I have much to say about what I saw as an “insider” but, due to my limited capacity for reading and writing, can’t handle a thread of my own in a timely courteous manner in regards to responses.

Not a day goes by that I don’t read at least half a dozen things in threads on this board (including this one and ’73) that I would love to dialogue with some of the posters or OP. I just can’t do it all. So I “picked a spot” on Apollo '73 and have been plodding my way to get all that’s sitting in my head out on this board as I have, due to circumstances, information that can provide “context” for others here that were not an “insider”.

Context is important to me. That’s why I’m telling all these stories. Context fosters understanding; Context augers meaning; Context makes time, place, form and event relevant; Context is the only way, in my opinion, to come to terms with and, ultimately, beneficial resolution of and personal growth from the experience of El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn.

I’m spending the time here on this thread to give context, in my own way of communicating, to Fisherman regarding just what I was doing and why with El Ron and Scn. Eventually, as long as there continued to be some interest, I was going to give that context on the ’73 thread, but Fisherman “hooked me" and I skipped ahead...he’s a very intelligent, thoughtful, educated and sincere guy. He deserves, in my way of viewing the world, the respect and courtesy of a forthright and diligent effort on my part, as long as he has interest. It has been very rewarding to me to try and "frame" the context to my personal "What and Why" re: El Ron, et al for a non Scn.

I know Lakey and FoTi are not here to put on a show or play to an audience…and most of the folks on the ’73 thread and ESMB aren’t either. But, asking others as to why I’m doing something on this board and then others answering for me rubs me the wrong way.

I came to ESMB and the Apollo ’73 thread to learn, to dialogue, to share my “take” and to add to the Body of Context that was withheld from Us and that we, as decent and well intended people justly and rightly deserved in the beginning.

I will finish what I have personally committed myself to doing…I will finish, over time, my installments of context and “take”. I am going to step back for a few days, take a “breather” and reflect on where and how the remainder—outside of my current dialogue and process on this thread—should be posted. Most likely it will be on the Apollo ’73 thread but I, and my thoughts, are not owned property and ESMB may be gone in four months.

The Universe saw fit to return my Breath of Life and restore, more and more, my memory and ability to read and write. As long as I have that breath, as long as I can communicate, my purpose is to give context as best I am able and my two chosen tasks at the moment are my book—which is getting way to little attention— and the “purging” of my “take” re: El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn which has been consuming my limited available reading/writing attention.

I am so blessed to be able to provide unique context to the Body of Knowledge that may be helpful to others in finding there own personal context and meaning about El Ron, et al.

I am also blessed to be able to, someday, finish telling the story of my own death…which I endeavor to not greatly exaggerate...well, not too much anyway.:coolwink:

I appreciate you, Lakey and you, FoTi…and all y’all more than you will ever know.:yes:

Face:)


You are being "fully duplicated".

[Although I still have difficulty grasping how hard writing comes to you now. You write much better than many pros. :coolwink:]


Mark A. Baker
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Humorous

:D
AnonKat,

It's not a "good book" it's a GREAT book!!!!!!!!!!!

Will Durant was a brilliant scholar with a unique talent for capsulizing complex philosophic constructs. "Outline of Philosophy" was a popular book-club selection written for a high school level, general readership.

It's not the book you'd expect on the desk of an "original" philosopher of Hubbard's self-confessed caliber. It's little like discovering Julia Child working with the "Betty Crocker Cookbook."

To me, this is a very humorous photo!

fisherman

The Lulz are endless

HubbardOT3.gif
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Great Aunt Pat!!

No, Lakey it is not true. I am, and many of my friends are "today's Christians" , We read and seek enlightment. My seach was started in a Baptist church.

I was encouraged to search for answers to questions that my Minister could or would not answer. Of course my search led to new questions.

I have a very personal relationship with Jesus, he comforts and guides me. I also ask for guidence from the Holy Spirit who in my understanding is the wisdom of the Trinity. Of course God is love that makes us all one.

My leaving $cn before the shit hit the fan was due to my gift of perception from God. I shall always be grateful.

Light and Love,
Pat

Geat Aunt Pat! Thanks for correcting me. I was good friends with a Baptist named Doug Locke in the late 1960's when we both worked for IBM in aerospace. Doug was extremely intelligent and his Dad was a Baptist preacher. Doug turned me on to the books of Edgar Caycee and I read them and this lead me to believing in past lives before I ever got into Scn. Doug and I both came to agree that past lives were a likely truth. He once told me he was speaking at his Baptist Church on a Sunday morning and invited me to come. I had a basketball game scheduled and did not go. I should have gone to Doug's lecture, he was a very bright man.

What you say about your experience practicing "today's Christianity" is music to my ears. I am so pleased that you found your correct spiritual path and are having the kinds of wins you are having in practicing "today's Christianity". May you continue your spiritual growth through the study and practice of your beloved faith. Thank you for correcting my inaccurate perceptions of modern Christians. God bless you!!
Lakey
 
“Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never - in nothing great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.” Sir Winston Churchill

“It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.” Mark Twain

Near the end of my Soph year the Butcher merged his shop with a local grocer and created the first quasi supermarket in our little town. Already a trained meat cutter, I learned to order and handle a produce section, grocery section and Dairy box. I was lightening fast on a cash register and stocking shelves, popular with the customers, many of whom had become very friendly, interested in me and became my own little booster club. Football was becoming my best sport, Lettering as a Soph and in my Junior year I was first string Slotback and Strong Safety (All League, Honorable Mention). Academically I wasn’t a super star but was holding my own in the advance college prep group. I was dating the daughter—a real looker and a Senior— of two professors at the county community college and life was good, life was simple.

Then began a series of events that would drastically alter the course of my life and, eventually, usher me in to Scientology.

My father found another woman in another town about 60 miles away that was more to his liking and just happened to be a wealthy widow. In December of my Junior year he just disappeared one day, called my mother and told her it was over, that he wasn’t coming back and that was final. I didn’t hear squat or see boo of him for 6 months. My mother, of course, was a basket case. She spent hours in tirades about how bad he was and how I was just like him and she pitied any woman that would marry me. Her “fallback” was Jesus and, though already a Born Again, Fundamentalist Christian, she left the bible thumper church that she and my father were longtime members of and fell in with an evangelical, speaking in tongues, literally Holy Roller bunch. Often when I came home at 9:00 after work she’d have a dozen or more of her new “friends” in the house and some of them would be rolling on the floor, shaking and ranting in “tongues” while the rest sat there moaning, “Praise Jesus, Yes Jesus, take me Jesus”. She’d insisted that I always come and say “hello” to each one of them. The look in their eyes was real spooky and it all creeped me out…bad.

School, work and sports, more than ever, became my refuge. I’d leave home early in the morning after my chores and came back late in the evening, do some chores, study some, read some and try to sleep. In some ways my life had not change all that much from my parents situation. I had many friends at school, had all my customer friends at work and my jock buddies. My father had never attended one my games and I could count on one hand the number of times we had done father/son stuff and even then, it was about him. My mother had only been to one game, which we lost, and afterwards she derided for how poorly I and teammates had played. She had also attended a couple choir performances but again, as far as she was concerned I wasn’t and the choir wasn’t very good. Of course, all four years I was in High School I had sung in the Advanced/Madrigal Choir and all four of those years our group received 9 out 9 Superior ratings at the Regional a cappella tournament. I rarely ever talked with anyone about my home life as it was embarrassing to me and seemed pointless. I knew what the solution was—to walk away when I finished High School…that was my hope, my dream and I thought little about my future beyond that.

Our football team that year went from next to last place my Soph year to second place. We had a new coach that was young, really good, inspiring and very much into making us the best men and team we could be. By the end of the year 70% of the starters were my fellow juniors. We had a good shot at being league champions our Senior year. After the season Mr. Head Coach called me into his office for a chat. He told me that as long as I kept my grades up he was confident I could get a scholarship to a Division II school, possibly Division 1AA, maybe even a 1A. He said he’d help me all he could to get one but I needed to make some choices.

I was an OK basketball player but likely to never be a starter, he said. He was right and I agreed. I was a good Baseball player, a pitcher with a gun for an arm but control problems and it would take a lot of work and practice to be a starter. He was right and I agreed. “Okay, Face,” he said, “here’s my deal, man to man. You give up basketball and baseball. Next semester I’ll get you put in my last period PE class. The rules won’t let me teach to any football but It will let me coach at weight training, agility and conditioning. Both terms this summer school the rules say that me and one other coach can teach body building and conditioning and you take both terms. We gotta get you bigger and quicker. You’re going to be the 2nd string Slotback next year because we’re going to concentrate on the position that you’ve got the best shot at getting a full ride.”

“You’re a real hitter son.” Coach continued. “You gotta a good head for the game and a nose for the ball. Look Face, I know you’ve got some tough stuff going on and I’m not gonna tell you how I know that, but I do, and that’s none of my business. What my business is is to make boys into men and, as far as I’m concerned you’re farther along than most…you just gotta suck it up and put it in the end zone, son. I can and I will help you, but you’re the one that’s gotta carry the ball.” He told me to think about, that it was my decision and up to me, that simple.

For me it was Ms. Angel and the Butcher all over again…someone believed in me, someone was gonna help me and give me a chance. I told Coach, then and there without hesitation, I was in and I wasn’t going to let him down. We stood up and shook hands, eye to eye, man to man. For weeks my head was in the clouds. I was gonna do this…no matter what it took, I was going to give it everything I had…I was going to make this happen! Nothing and no one was going to stop me.

Over the course of the rest of the school year I had less and less time for my personal reading pursuits. My focus was on preparing for the coming football season and my coming opportunity to vault into a new life. My reading shifted to stories of overcoming adversity, of determination and the “Philosophy and Tech” of football.

I could sense it, I could feel it in my heart and soul!

My moment was upon me!

Face :)

This is tremendous.

Your stories about adversity and hep from guardian angels in the teaching and shop keeper professions are pure joy. Having others in your life to mentor one and guide one is so cool.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Face - Sorry I spoke for you- big mistake for me!

Lakey and FoTi,

I think the world of both of you. Here’s where I’m coming from:

FoTi addressed Lakey as to why I was posting something on this thread and on the Apollo ’73 thread at the same time.

My view is that no one on this board controls what I post, when I post or where I post.

I answered FoTi, very specifically, why I was doing that and the fact that I had, on three previous occasions, done that and referenced at that time why I was doing so.

Lakey answers FoTi, for me that it had to do with “target audiences”.

My response to FoTi, which was posted before Lakey’s response for me to FoTi, said nothing about “target audiences”. It said that basically I was involved with a dialogue string here, with Fisherman, and the “framing” I have been posting by installments, was also the same “framing” that I have been posting in installments on the Apollo ’73 thread.

I have already written a lengthy post on the Apollo ’73 thread as to why I have to post in installments and why it is sometimes days between those installments.

I’m not trying to “reach bigger groups”…that doesn’t mean doodoo to me. I’ve written on several occasions why I like posting on the “73 thread and it has nothing to do with a “big audience”. It has everything to do with the quality of folks that are consistently active there (like Lakey and FoTi); the fact that I know the Apollo inside out, backwards and forwards; the fact that a number of the folks there are from my “Era” of Scn; the fact that I have much to say about what I saw as an “insider” but, due to my limited capacity for reading and writing, can’t handle a thread of my own in a timely courteous manner in regards to responses.

Face, thanks for posting the 3 paragraphs above! These clarify why you double posted. I had no business speaking for you and then having done that, I compounded my misdeed by ascribing the wrong motives to you. I SCREWED UP BIG TIME! I AM VERY CONTRITE AND APOLOGIZE. I MEANT YOU NO HARM AND WHAT I DID WAS DONE NOT FROM ILL WILL TOWARDS YOU. WHAT I DID WAS DONE OUT OF MISJUDGEMENT ON MY PART AND JUST PLAIN STUDPIDITY.

Not a day goes by that I don’t read at least half a dozen things in threads on this board (including this one and ’73) that I would love to dialogue with some of the posters or OP. I just can’t do it all. So I “picked a spot” on Apollo '73 and have been plodding my way to get all that’s sitting in my head out on this board as I have, due to circumstances, information that can provide “context” for others here that were not an “insider”.

Context is important to me. That’s why I’m telling all these stories. Context fosters understanding; Context augers meaning; Context makes time, place, form and event relevant; Context is the only way, in my opinion, to come to terms with and, ultimately, beneficial resolution of and personal growth from the experience of El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn.

Your revelation about how important context is to you is very critical to understanding you. I had not picked up on this from my readings of your posts. Thank you for emphasizing this point, it is very helpful in understanding where you are coming from!

I’m spending the time here on this thread to give context, in my own way of communicating, to Fisherman regarding just what I was doing and why with El Ron and Scn. Eventually, as long as there continued to be some interest, I was going to give that context on the ’73 thread, but Fisherman “hooked me" and I skipped ahead...he’s a very intelligent, thoughtful, educated and sincere guy. He deserves, in my way of viewing the world, the respect and courtesy of a forthright and diligent effort on my part, as long as he has interest. It has been very rewarding to me to try and "frame" the context to my personal "What and Why" re: El Ron, et al for a non Scn.

I know Lakey and FoTi are not here to put on a show or play to an audience…and most of the folks on the ’73 thread and ESMB aren’t either. But, asking others as to why I’m doing something on this board, which I've already explained, and then others answering for me, when I have already answered, rubs me the wrong way.

You are right in what you said about me above. Once again I apologize profusely for my shear STUPIDITY in saying something which rubbed you the wrong way.

I came to ESMB and the Apollo ’73 thread to learn, to dialogue, to share my “take” and to add to the Body of Context that was withheld from Us and that we, as decent and well intended people justly and rightly deserved in the beginning.

I will finish what I have personally committed myself to doing…I will finish, over time, my installments of context and “take”. I am going to step back for a few days, take a “breather” and reflect on where and how the remainder—outside of my current dialogue and process on this thread—should be posted. Most likely it will be on the Apollo ’73 thread but I, and my thoughts, are not owned property and ESMB may be gone in four months.

The Universe saw fit to return my Breath of Life and restore, more and more, my memory and ability to read and write. As long as I have that breath, as long as I can communicate, my purpose is to give context as best I am able and my two chosen tasks at the moment are my book—which is getting way to little attention— and the “purging” of my “take” re: El Ron, CofS, SO and Scn which has been consuming my limited available reading/writing attention.

I am so blessed to be able to provide unique context to the Body of Knowledge that may be helpful to others in finding there own personal context and meaning about El Ron, et al.

I am also blessed to be able to, someday, finish telling the story of my own death…which I endeavor to not greatly exaggerate...well, not too much anyway.:coolwink:

I appreciate you, Lakey and you, FoTi…and all y’all more than you will ever know.:yes:

Face:)

I super appreciate you Face and your writings and your great courage and the exhibition of your will to live and share your knowledge with us after the unfortunate medical ordeal which you were put through. As my first act of contrition in atoning for my stupidity, I will not speak for FoTi, she will have to speak to you herself.

Since Emma announced she is bowing out in mid December, I reassessed the knowledge I have gained since I restarted the Apollo thread In October of 2009. I was a nobody, a lowly Director of Disbursements at a Class IV Org but I attracted Carmelo's attention. He hatched a plan and he brought some somebody's, i.e. opinion leaders, to the thread. Sweetness and Light was there from the beginning and then we attracted Roger B., Ted, Enthetan, Thetanic, Mark Baker, Leon, Ethics Particle, Kookaburra and on and on and on who began posting there regularly along with myself and Carmelo. More and more our understanding of L Ron Hubbard, Scientology technology, Ron's C of S and DM's C of S all grew by leaps and bounds. but lingering questions still remained unanswered.

One Day, Face who had been lurking and unbeknownst to us had been posting a bit elsewhere landed smack dab right in the middle of the Apollo thread!! In his folksy Will Rogers manner of story telling, Face has filled in virutally all the missing pieces. FOR ME THE ENIGMA AND RIDDLE OF L RON HUBBARD, SCIENTOLOGY AND THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IS COMPLETELY SOLVED AND RESOLVED. My quest is over and virtually all the information I wanted to know (I WILL NO LONGER SPEAK FOR OTHERS) has now been discovered, written up and commented on and analyzed. It remains to edit and print our 490 pages of text, add a table of contents and and index and print everything out as a book or ebook. We couldn't have had closure without Face. We needed someone who worked directly with LRH on the inside to come forward and fill in the blanks for us. Face was that person!
Lakey
 
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I super appreciate you Face and your writings and your great courage and the exhibition of your will to live and share your knowledge with us after the unfortunate medical ordeal which you were put through.

One Day, Face who had been lurking and unbeknownst to us had been possting a bit elsewhere landed smack dab right in the middle of the Apollo thread!! In his folksy Will Rogers manner of story telling, Face has filled in virutally all the missing pieces. FOR ME THE ENIGMA AND RIDDLE OF L RON HUBBARD, SCIENTOLOGY AND THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IS COMPLETELY SOLVED AND RESOLVED. My quest is over and virtually all the information I wanted to know (I WILL NO LONGER SPEAK FOR OTHERS) has now been discovered, written up and commented on and analyzed. We couldn't have had closure without Face. We needed someone who worked directly with LRH on the inside to come forward and fill in the blanks for us. Face was that person!
Lakey

me too
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
I have a couple of clarifications to discuss.

Face, you have not made a mistake.
Lakey came in with the ANNOUNCED idea that a thread that he created was "his" thread. .that he is the "host" of that thread... That he wants to have the longest thread on ESMB...and to that end he is keeping statistics.
( that's the 1973 Apollo thread)
No matter that it lives on old movies and albums and scenes that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of scientology.
Different strokes for different folks. The ones who continue the thread are having a good time with themselves. Let 'em rock on widdoutchu.

Challenge

Challenge, I appreciate your comments. I need to have a couple of points cleared up.

#1 When you say, "Lakey came in" what are you refering to? I started this thread too, so I did not just come in here, I am the OP.

#2 I thought it was normal for the Originating Poster of a thread to refer to the thread as his or her thread and to call themselves the host or hostess. Am I in error on these points? Using these terms is not necessarily a sign of ego, it is just a convenient verbal means of referring to a thread. It is easier to say my thread instead of spelling out the entire thread name each time. If my usage of terms is wrong, please correct me!

#3 I do not believe I have ever said that I want to have the longest thread on ESMB. I have no desire to specifically achieve such a goal. I want every thread I originate to be of high quality but I believe that is a common trait which others share and it is the correct idea to exhibit, to take pride in something that one has started and do everything as a professional.

#4 I do not keep statistics on the thread. The Thread host and thread software keep all the statistics. Sometimes I analyze their statistics. I only have 3 basic involvements with statistics.

A. When I started the Apollo "73 thread I wanted to hit 5,000 views.
B. When Carmelo joined with me in October, it was he who set the goal to crack the top 10 threads in amount of views. At that time it took about 29,000 views to be in 10th place so Carmelo and I set this as a goal to achieve.
C. Once we achieved 10th place, Carmelo and I both wanted to rise in the rankings. I have always been a numbers guy and used to read the World Almanac as a teen ager and memorized all the numbers. The heights of tall buildings, the cirulation of magazines and newspapers, the land areas and populations of all the countries, the tallest mountains, etc. etc. I would just read it and those facts would stick in my mind.

I detect that you do not like it when I mention statistics. To me, it hurts no one and I could not see why anyone would object to that. Finally, I realized that many ex Scios have charge on the subject from thier days of having to keep stats for the C of S. Could you please tell me your objection to me mentioning stats? If your objection has merit, I will try and accomodate you amd stop mentioning them. I mainly use stats as a tool to maintain interest and create a game. I can give it up in a hearbeat if it is causing someone pain or discomfort.

#5 I am certain you are in error on your remarks that the Apollo thread lives only on things which have nothing to do with Scientology. It is true that we cover many and varied topics as you suggest. It is also true that for a significant period we did not talk much about Scientology. The subject always had a presence, Leon posted on it and Heidrun Beer who no longer posts with us was posting a lot about Scientology and there were others but much more was posted on other topics than on Scientology for perhaps a good four months.

When Face arrived, the equation changed and he brought us back to Scientology. For the last 3 months or so, I would say that over 50% of our discussions have been Scientology related.

Our newest star player on the Apollo thread is the Magic Thetan, John Raffanelo. He is probably the main highlight of the thread's immediate future and he talks mostly Scientology. With Face, Roger, Ted and Johnny all posting there will be a preponderance of tallk about Scientology in the near future.

#6 You say that the ones who continue the thread are having a good time. You do not seem to include me in this group and yet I am very much still active there. I am having a good time with them! Why are you writing me out of the mix? I would really like to know so that perhaps I could correct myself if I am doing something which upsets you.

#7 You say, "Let em rock on widdoutchu" Here again more ill will towards me. I just can not figure why you have dislike for me. There are only two possiblities that I can think of. One is that you resent me for being egotistical and for keeping stats and the other is that my wife of 29 years was dating your husband of 29 years when I met her and maybe there is some bad feelings involved there. Why else would you have such dislike for me?

In summary, I believe you are correct in being critical of me for keeping stats and taking credit for participation in endeavors which you feel others are creating. You are absolutely right feeling the way you do about me in your Universe. I am just wondering that if you could communicate to me from your universe some things that I would need to change to cause you to see me in a better light, I would like to see what those things are and unless they conflicted with deeply held core beliefs of mine, I will change them to suit you better. I have taken my time to really reach out to you and try and handle the bad feelings which you seem to hold towards me. Neither of us is a spring chicken any longer and if possible, I would like to reach a meeting of minds with you at this time. It is important to me to get this handled if possible, otherwise I would not have taken all this time to write this post. If we cannot reach a more harmonious relationship, then so be it. I'll know that at least I gave it my best shot.
Lakey
 
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FoTi

Crusader
I super appreciate you Face and your writings and your great courage and the exhibition of your will to live and share your knowledge with us after the unfortunate medical ordeal which you were put through. As my first act of contrition in atoning for my stupidity, I will not speak for FoTi, she will have to speak to you herself.

Lakey


Who's speaking for who? Er...whom? :blink: :wacko: :unsure: :roflmao:

I had asked Lakey a question about Face's posting in two places because Lakey made a comment about Face posting the same thing in two places. I asked Lakey the question because I was responding to Lakey's post. Face answered it for me. Then Lakey answered it for Face. Face didn't like that. What a mix up. :ohmy:


Face, have a pleasant time out. I look forward to your next post. I really enjoy reading what you have to present here on ESMB. I understand it's difficult for you, You are doing a beautiful job. Your difficulties do not show in your writing, and what you have to share here is valuable.

And, by the way, my two cents here, I don't want anybody to stop talking about themselves or their stories because I like to hear about people and what they experience in their own lives, which is different from mine. It enriches my life to learn about others and their experiences.
 
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fisherman

Patron with Honors
Face, I'm having too much fun with puppy, so just a quick note from me.

What you wrote about the value of context had me chanting, "yes, yes, yes!" In writing a historical narrative context IS EVERYTHING, as you said. Communicating context deftly is the art in writing history and you do it very well.

I haven't commented on your latest efforts, but I truly enjoyed reading them. For an outsider like myself the picture you paint is critical to understanding. I know how much work it takes to write well and appreciate the effort you've invested. :thumbsup:

Back to puppy-time!

fisherman
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
You are being "fully duplicated".

[Although I still have difficulty grasping how hard writing comes to you now. You write much better than many pros. :coolwink:]


Mark A. Baker

Thanks, MAB.:thumbsup:

Writing for me is kinda like making sausage...it isn't pretty to watch and it gets messy but some folks seem to like it when it's done and, so far, don't get sick too often.:coolwink:

Face:)
 
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