Accomplishments of Anonymous/Critics

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Next week, it will have been 6 months since Anonymous appeared and changed the Critics of Scientology scene forever.

The word has gotten out about the abuses of the cult like never before. 6 monthly global protests with thousands of people protesting outside every major org on the planet, youtube videos exposing Scientology, hundreds of thousands of people educated about Scientology.

But when it comes to the major abuses that the Church of Scientology wages against its members:
  • Enforced Abortions
  • Enforced Disconnections resulting in the destruction of thousands of families
  • The Suppression of the freedom of speech, the rights to property and employment abuses
What has been accomplished?

I know of nothing that has actually produced any reform on the Church in any of these areas. Am I ignernt? Did I miss it?

Also, what else has been accomplished?

I know that the Church can't keep people from selling their meters on EBay any more.

Anything else?
 

Mary

Patron with Honors
Alanzo,

In my opinion, the Church is highly unlikely to reform, it can only skrink down to a fanatic few and hopefully one day die.

In my own life, family and friends, I've seen enormous changes because of Anon and the worldwide protests. Before ESMB and Anon I remember being in a very dark and dismal state of mind, a lonely solitude and stifling silence of not being able to tell anyone what had happened.

Since then, myself and many others have found the courage to speak out, and to my amazement, I find out that there were other friends and family who had been informed by Anon + critics and are now also willing to speak out.

If this movement has helped at least 20-30 people (probably more) in my own circle, then how many more people helped, informed and/or saved from the clutches of $cn for each one of us exs'?
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Their impact has been helpful. Frankly, though, I was already "speaking out" in 1997. Protests are wonderful, and I support them, but they're more like an epiphenomenon, IMO, than an actual change: they're something that shows the change is occurring, but not the cause of the change. Of course, in their own sphere, they are certainly causing their own changes. In order to get media attention, the numbers and issues need to be large and raw. In the old days, the issues were raw, but discussed in a nuanced way, and the numbers were apparently small, but I think that just had more to do with a generation of people who didn't really use the internet yet.

Now we're all using it, and it's become so cheap even an ex-sea ogre can afford it.
 

Feral

Rogue male
I know of an upper level OT that was called into an org to support them during a picket. They noticed something on a placard, went home and googled it...then it was all over!

In my case I saw anon on the web and pulled the string on what they were saying, I read for three solid months.

I also suspect mostly due to the information age that new members in scientology may have to come from third world countries, otherwise they are going to be pretty thin on the ground.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
People still dont have water in some countries. People dont have a place to live in other countries. People have no medical in other countries.

All kinds of crap goes on that people ARE aware of, and nothing really effective gets done about it.

We ain't in a world of superheroes.

But each of us taking a stand and getting out the message does help in the overall scheme of things.

I know that it is putting a seed of doubt in some minds. We are making progress.

It isnt like the SO members are going to lay down their uniforms and jump ship so easily.

Its a mind control game and it takes a lot to raise the awareness.

---

One or two bad health department violations made public about a restaraunt chain can put the whole thing under. Just like any of this. It may take a long time, as by attrition, or sudden, as a government office closure of it.
 

byte301

Crusader
I have heard several stories of people leaving the cult because of Anonymous.

I see NO public at my local org at all. When we protest there the $cilons staffers practically run into the org. It's like this in a lot of orgs everywhere.

We get more and more people stopping and talking to us during protests. It's all been positive except one.

Anonymous is delving into every nook and crannie of the cult. If there is a weakness they will find it and use it. Davey makes a false move and it will be on youtube tomorrow. They are under the biggest spotlight in history for the first time since elron showed off his first "clear" in a huge event that ended in total disaster. It is probably bigger then that since the news goes around the world in a split second now.

It may be that we are too used to instant gratification these days.:) But it's gonna happen if we just keep with it.
 

byte301

Crusader
Almost forgot about the ads the cult is running on tv and on the internet. That's a huge drain on them. It is in response to Anonymous.

The news of The Freewind got spread all over the place when before they would have been able to hush it up.

There is still disconnection going on and abortions I'm sure. But it is all coming out in the open now. They deny it and another ex pops up and confirms that it's all true. And for every one that leaves that means no forced abortion for them and perhaps a RE-connection with non-scientology family.
 

Pixie

Crusader
I have heard several stories of people leaving the cult because of Anonymous.

I see NO public at my local org at all. When we protest there the $cilons staffers practically run into the org. It's like this in a lot of orgs everywhere.

We get more and more people stopping and talking to us during protests. It's all been positive except one.

Anonymous is delving into every nook and crannie of the cult. If there is a weakness they will find it and use it. Davey makes a false move and it will be on youtube tomorrow. They are under the biggest spotlight in history for the first time since elron showed off his first "clear" in a huge event that ended in total disaster. It is probably bigger then that since the news goes around the world in a split second now.

It may be that we are too used to instant gratification these days.:) But it's gonna happen if we just keep with it.

Well said byte301 :clap: I think they're making a huge difference for sure. Protests 'every month'! More people know about them every day now and like you said byte they can't get away with much now because of the internet. They are exposing so so much and putting vast amounts of information on the internet for all to see! They're even getting into the media! They've also probably stopped thousands of people doing stress tests or even walking into orgs all over the planet. They are like ants all over DM's bum, and it's fantastic to have them! If it wasn't for them we'd still only have had a few sites whereas there are now sites all over thanks to them. The logos and masks are now more recognizable than any of the cults ever were. I for one think they're doing a great job! :yes:
 

byte301

Crusader
I know of an upper level OT that was called into an org to support them during a picket. They noticed something on a placard, went home and googled it...then it was all over!

In my case I saw anon on the web and pulled the string on what they were saying, I read for three solid months.

I also suspect mostly due to the information age that new members in scientology may have to come from third world countries, otherwise they are going to be pretty thin on the ground.

Feral, Do you know what the placard said specifically? I am always looking for a button to push that will make them look and learn and leave. :)
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Alanzo, at this point I doubt we can know if there are any internal reforms. They are inevitable though.

The campaigns about Data information and staff wages are ongoing, the Postcards to Int and the expose of child staff in Melbourne. There is work being done on the IRS status and goodness knows what else. I have seen Anonymous state that protests are the tip of the iceberg and tend to believe that.

The results from the protests are as above, on individual levels. And those individuals may not be able to make reforms by themselves - but they can leave. New "raw meat" is scarce on the ground now, leading to inevitable collapse.

I was delighted the other day when a young anon told me they had mentioned they had picketed Scientology to a friend. The friend said "Is that the alien thingy? I want to protest too!" It may not be the right issue, but the very fact that a 20 something had heard of it and would never be sucked in was good for my soul. :yes:
 

Andrew

Patron with Honors
I know of nothing that has actually produced any reform on the Church in any of these areas. Am I ignernt? Did I miss it?

"Ignernt" might be harsh call.

Perhaps you just need to look for the little red line under the words more...
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
How do we stop enforced abortions by a recognized religion?

How do we stop them from destroying families through their religious beliefs?

If their religion teaches that its adherents have no rights to justice or property or speech, how do we force them to recognize rights that their founder refused for his followers, and that his followers "willingly" give up?

That Scientology is now totally uncool to a younger generation, and that their abuses are exposed broadly, are two very beneficial accomplishments.

But by what routes can we actually and effectively end the actual abuse?

This is a very tough question. I tend to think that think that there is no way to do it. As long as people "willingly" submit to this treatment, I don't see the angle that police and social agencies can take to stop it.

I'm not being negative here. I am actually looking for an effective way of getting something actually done. I have not personally had any crimes committed against me, that I am aware of at this time. And I am not sure if I have personally witnessed any. I have seen complete fraud in the name of religion, but that's pretty hard to prove in a court of law since just about any religion can be accused of fraud.

Or do we just keep protesting and creating websites and blogs and hopefully getting a Nightline segment, or a 60 Minutes or 20/20 segment, or a magazine article every once in a while?

Here's a question: Why hasn't anyone who has been beaten by Miscavage filed charges against him?
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
All in good time, Alanzo. It would be nice if the process could be hurried along, but, of course, the same laws that allow Christians to protest intelligently planned abortions support the Scientologists right to encourage people who want to abort to do so. I consider their doing so rather sick, of course, but I wouldn't want to say a young woman must have a child just because some guy blew his mustard in her innards. If she wants to, that's her business, and if she doesn't, that's her business, also. Binding women through children they don't wish to bear is a form of slavery that I am not willing to enforce on any woman, nor am I willing to conscience others trying to push her into such a life, just to satisfy my parochial squeamishness about ending the life of a tadpole, either.

As to more direct efforts to end the existence of the Church, I am all ears. But that's not really my game. My game is Timothy Leary's game. SMILE (Space Migration, Intelligence Squared, Life Extension). That's a game we really can all win. I can't be bothered with the yapping of the cur-dogs, if you smell my drift.
 

Pliny Younger

Patron with Honors
Anonymous

I think that Anonymous has created an atmosphere that we have not had before when discussing Scn. They have created the largest PR problem the the church has ever had. The operation Snow White trial was a big problem for them, but I think this one's bigger. It's bigger in a different way. Every month a bunch of people go out and disseminate AGAINST scientology. They hand out well written flyers and they do it better than I did it in the church when I was in.

The reaction on the street to the regular Joe is shocking. Most people I've talked with already know that scn is a joke and they are very allied with this movement.

At the last protest, I saw people who were passing by come up to Anonymous and ask to have their picture taken with the Guy Fawkes masked protesters. They'd heard of anon and were jazzed to see the protest. I've had relatives call me to tell me the they came across a protest in San Francisco.

You pose some good questions Alanzo. Don't know the answers, but I think that the stage that is being set by Anonymous is going to allow whatever happens to happen easier.
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Alanzo

2 Things: How many people haven't walked in the door or taken an OCA due to anon? Can't be measured but I'm pretty sure it's warned off a few.

Also, most importantly, I think the Jason Beghe video is one of the best things I have ever watched!!! I used to dream up ways that I could one day be lucky enough to purchase my L's and OT levels and be TOTAL Cause over my life.

That guy saved me a bundle, brought some good attention to the abuses of the church, and MB said in London he got some of the courage to come out due to Anon.

Do I think that many people still "in" will wake up? No-but the drain on resouces of the church to fight them will wake up a few in some intense "breifings ($$$$$). How many JTs can come up with $1M to out PR them?
 

byte301

Crusader
Well said byte301 :clap: I think they're making a huge difference for sure. Protests 'every month'! More people know about them every day now and like you said byte they can't get away with much now because of the internet. They are exposing so so much and putting vast amounts of information on the internet for all to see! They're even getting into the media! They've also probably stopped thousands of people doing stress tests or even walking into orgs all over the planet. They are like ants all over DM's bum, and it's fantastic to have them! If it wasn't for them we'd still only have had a few sites whereas there are now sites all over thanks to them. The logos and masks are now more recognizable than any of the cults ever were. I for one think they're doing a great job! :yes:

Thanks Pixie! I like the mental image picture of ants, let's call them FIRE ants crawling all over Davey's ass!:omg: :hysterical:
 

byte301

Crusader
Well some good news on this subject is that Anonymous now has their very own lawyer!

He will be answering any and all questions on enturb pro bono. This will speed things up a little I think. Send everyone off in the right direction instead of wasting time researching red herrings and such.

He was with the ACLU and is doing it for the LULZ and that he has wanted to wrestle with the church for a long time. :yes:

If anyone has any legal questions pertaining to the cult there is a thread on enturb. for just that!
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yesterday Mon 14/7/08 i made my way home.

Stopped off at TCR in London, expecting to see the Scientologists outside the org plying their stress tests.There was nothing. The org door was open, but there were NO Scientologists, No tables outside.Nothing was happening outside the org.Every other time i have gone past there, there have been several people trying to recruit public into their org.

Anonymous are making a HUGE difference.

The Scientologists probably were elsewhere in London on the streets, but not on home territory.If a business cannot operate directly from the shop,the stats must be down.

This is a big WIN for Anonymous, the only thing i missed on TCR yesterday were my masked friends.

Rock on Anonymous!

Tamasin :)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Yesterday Mon 14/7/08 i made my way home.

Stopped off at TCR in London, expecting to see the Scientologists outside the org plying their stress tests.There was nothing. The org door was open, but there were NO Scientologists, No tables outside.Nothing was happening outside the org.Every other time i have gone past there, there have been several people trying to recruit public into their org.

Anonymous are making a HUGE difference.

The Scientologists probably were elsewhere in London on the streets, but not on home territory.If a business cannot operate directly from the shop,the stats must be down.

This is a big WIN for Anonymous, the only thing i missed on TCR yesterday were my masked friends.

Rock on Anonymous!

Tamasin :)

What time of day was that?

Whenever I've gone past they've always had people out doing stress
tests leaflets etc. In fact this is the prime function of TCR. When I used to
work there things didn't usually get started till after 10.
 
Top