According To L. Ron Hubbard "There was No Christ"

Audio of Hubbard claiming there was no Christ

From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series of lectures:
"Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified.

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Wisened One

Crusader
I've seen that reference somewhere else too...in the PDC transcripts or something like that.

But also: Sounds like he got some of that idea from some New Thought authors. (Florence Scovel Shinn and/or Ernest Holmes says something a bit similar).

See here: From her book 'The Game of Life and How To Play It' (written in the 1920's, I might add:)

http://www.spiritsite.com/writing/floshi/part10.shtml

''The Christ within, is his own fourth dimensional self, the man made in God's image and likeness. This is the self which has never failed, never known sickness or sorrow, was never born and has never died. It is the "resurrection and the life" of each man! "No man cometh to the Father save by the Son," means, that God, the Universal, working on the plane of the particular, becomes the Christ in man; and the Holy Ghost, means God-in-action. So daily, man is manifesting the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost.''

I'm pretty sure she also said the 'Jesus is everyman' (But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman) quote in one of her books (and/or perhaps it was Ernest Holmes' Science of Mind?).
 
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That quote does not say explicitly that Jesus of Nazareth never existed. It only says that the image or the incident of "the man on the cross" has existed for a long time for most of the people and that Chistianity pickit up to use it as its Icon. And people are sympathetic to it. There have been many questions in the scientific comunity wheather Christ existed or if he was actually crusified because there is no mention of him in any Roman or Israelite documents of the time, also remember that Christ on the cross was not the symbol of christianity until after the Nicea council in the year 300.

On other lectures, like The Hope for Man, LRH also mentions Christ, and other great religius leaders who "handed along enough tradition to make us aware of the fact that there was a spiritual side to man.", about Christ he mentions how other people say he might never have existed just like they said the same about Krishna.

"But what I am telling you is that these people handed a torch of wisdom, of information, generation to generation. It was handed along geographical routes, and one of those geographical routes was the Middle East. One of the people who handed it on was a man named Moses. And again it was handed on to a man named Christ. And he handed it on, and even the Arab nations benefited from this through their own prophet, Mohammed." LRH
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Right. Because the murdered god thing is an implant. Or, if you like, an archetype. Pops up all over the place. Not like "christ" was the guy's NAME.

Why it would surprise anyone that Scn is not Christian, I really don't know.
 
Right. Because the murdered god thing is an implant. Or, if you like, an archetype. Pops up all over the place. Not like "christ" was the guy's NAME.

Why it would surprise anyone that Scn is not Christian, I really don't know.

"The Christ" was a concept invented by pauline christians as a part of their attempts to appeal to gentile communities. It was based on concepts prevalent in the greek gentile community, not the jewish community of Jesus' and his followers. All evidence suggests that Jesus, if he existed, was a VERY orthodox jew. As such he would NEVER have countenanced his teachings being distorted from their jewish basis into some "new paradigm" of greek philosophical thought.


Mark A. Baker
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Right. It was from the Greek and meant "anointed one". Hubbard sure didn't mean there was no Yeshua Ben Yusef of Nazareth. Hubbard once said that Jesus was a messiah and that this meant leader of men. So you can see what he thought about that.
 
Right. Because the murdered god thing is an implant. Or, if you like, an archetype. Pops up all over the place. Not like "christ" was the guy's NAME.

Why it would surprise anyone that Scn is not Christian, I really don't know.

Probably the fake minister outfits conveniently selected to look like Catholic priests, or maybe the cross Hubbard chose to use as part of his religious cloaking :confused2:
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ron could not even keep his lies straight. In that tape he says that. In the OT3 data he says that Jesus was an implant along with asll the other religions of the world and in the OT8 data he says that the Historical Jesus was a lover of Boys and young men. :confused2: He should have made up his freakin mind before he wrote all that crap.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Mark,

IMO, that Hubbard said "That there is no Christ" is based on what came up in sessions with PCs (i.e. implants) and had nothing to do with historical research on that subject.

Personally, I doubt the New Testament stories about a so-called Jesus but my opinion has nothing to do with Hubbard and Scientology.

I don't know if you agree with me or not.
 
Mark,

IMO, that Hubbard said "That there is no Christ" is based on what came up in sessions with PCs (i.e. implants) and had nothing to do with historical research on that subject.

Personally, I doubt the New Testament stories about a so-called Jesus but my opinion has nothing to do with Hubbard and Scientology.

I don't know if you agree with me or not.

Yeah... I pretty much agree with you on that.

I also think that whatever LRH thought about Jesus Christ is his opinion and has the right to speak it freely.

And the truth about Jesus Christ does not matter at all to the overall subject of Scientology.
 
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Well, actually...shhhh...I don't want to let the secret out...

There was no L. Ron Hubbard.

Well... now that you mention it, the pictures of LRH could be "everyman", an archetype of a wise dedicated man, an image to reflect upon. and his biography is a tale to go with the character.

He existed in another century (suposedly), nobody can find him and talk to him.:omg:

It must be true.... there is no LRH:


:dieslaughing: :lol: :hysterical: :giggle: :laugh:
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
Ron could not even keep his lies straight. In that tape he says that. In the OT3 data he says that Jesus was an implant along with asll the other religions of the world and in the OT8 data he says that the Historical Jesus was a lover of Boys and young men. :confused2: He should have made up his freakin mind before he wrote all that crap.

:omg:
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
That quote does not say explicitly that Jesus of Nazareth never existed. It only says that the image or the incident of "the man on the cross" has existed for a long time for most of the people and that Chistianity pickit up to use it as its Icon. And people are sympathetic to it. There have been many questions in the scientific comunity wheather Christ existed or if he was actually crusified because there is no mention of him in any Roman or Israelite documents of the time, also remember that Christ on the cross was not the symbol of christianity until after the Nicea council in the year 300.

On other lectures, like The Hope for Man, LRH also mentions Christ, and other great religius leaders who "handed along enough tradition to make us aware of the fact that there was a spiritual side to man.", about Christ he mentions how other people say he might never have existed just like they said the same about Krishna.

I watched a documentary yesterday called The Cave of John the Baptist. This cave with its wall carvings and its ritual annointing with water and oil niches was dated to 800 BCE. There was a tradition that had been passed on and on moving one over to the spiritual side. The documentary also described how the compilers of the early books were careful to not make John seem like he was above Christ. He had had his own huge following and had annointed Jesus of Nazareth. He was human. He was influencial enough to cause Herod to behead him so there would be no Jewish uprisings. On these walls are also carvings by crusaders that came by the cave. Some fleur de lis along side of the man dressed in animal skin. The Knights Templar were alleged to have worshipped a head. ( The head of John the Baptist) It was under the Jewish Temple. So couldn't that be where Herod the Great beheaded John? Would that be the same temple? It is also said that the Rosicrucians had their inception in the idea of these temple knights. All of their initiated take on the name of 'John'. Interesting. They believe in elevating and transforming through a spiritual alchemy the spirit of man to a 'perfect man'.

john.jpg
51182256.jpg
 
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Mark,

IMO, that Hubbard said "That there is no Christ" is based on what came up in sessions with PCs (i.e. implants) and had nothing to do with historical research on that subject.

Personally, I doubt the New Testament stories about a so-called Jesus but my opinion has nothing to do with Hubbard and Scientology.

I don't know if you agree with me or not.

Of course it was, just listen to this audio of him and his wife,

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14353

They believe everything which makes the needle on their silly meter move is true, no matter how utterly batshit crazy it is. That was Hubbard's idea of research ... mentally jacking himself off with a party gag lie detector .
 
Mark,

IMO, that Hubbard said "That there is no Christ" is based on what came up in sessions with PCs (i.e. implants) and had nothing to do with historical research on that subject.

Personally, I doubt the New Testament stories about a so-called Jesus but my opinion has nothing to do with Hubbard and Scientology.

I don't know if you agree with me or not.

The point of my post was that the comment itself is not wholly nonsensical. Whether or not Hubbard's reason for making it was nonsensical I've personally no way of knowing. However it wouldn't come as a surprise to me if it were.

I've never taken his comments as indicative of other than his opinions about things. Sometimes his opinions are factually based. Often they are pure hyperbolic fantasy. Since I've never "believed in Ron" it doesn't matter to me which it might be. Call it the SoCal effect but I often seem to run into people with even stranger opinions than Hubbard's.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
1)I've never taken his comments as indicative of other than his opinions about things. [Read: Scientology works! but that's FACT, not opinion.]

2) Sometimes his opinions are factually based. [Read: He's right a lot of the time.]

3) Often they are pure hyperbolic fantasy. [Read: He has a great imagination, and what a sense of humor!]

4) Since I've never "believed in Ron" it doesn't matter to me which it might be. [Read: I'm too smart to be dumb like y'all, that's why I'm still a Scientologist.]

5) Call it the SoCal effect but I often seem to run into people with even stranger opinions than Hubbard's. [Read: Actually, his opinions aren't that far out. Ron is an OK guy. Here, let me give you one of his books. :thumbsup: ]

Bracketed comments added.:eyeroll:
 
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