Adults in small bodies

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
You know what, Auditor's Toad?

I seem to be losing.

You seems to be a better Troll than me.

All I had to say about the OP was in my first post(s) in this very thread.

Go ahead and take over this thread.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
This question just occurred to me. There have been various cases of child molestation/rape, which were all covered up, and in some cases the victim's parents/mother told to lie to the authorites.

The motivation of the organisation to hush it up are obvious, but how do the perpetrators handle their guilt? (Provided that they feel guilty) Is it possible that they convince themselves that children are adults in small bodies and therefore able to deal with it? That would be logical, albeit utterly horrible.

The kind of predaotrs you are asking about (whether they are scientologists or not scientologists) generally don't "feel guilty" about what they do -- if they did, they wouldn't do it, they would seek help to overcome their urges toward committing criminal acts, and most don't -- until they are caught.

They have various rationalizations (what scientology calls "justifiers") for the acts they commit, which include:

The victim wanted it. The victim flirted with / came on to me, I couldn't resist. She/he was asking for it. Children should be allowed to express their sexuality. It's natural. We're in love. It's not a crime in other cultures of the world. It's beautiful. I was showing him/her how beautiful sex can be. Blah blah blah blah.

Sexual predators are notoriously nearly impossible to "cure" of the "desires" that lead them to commit the crimes they commit. Even those who have undergone "treatment" (everything from aversion therapy to castration) are often repeat offenders, which is one reason why, once they have been convicted of a crime of sexual predation, they are required to register with a national registry that shows where they live (but unfortunately for people who need it, this registry is often out of date).

No doubt, the "adults in small bodies" -- the "he/she is an old thetan who has had countless sexual experiences on the track, so of course they know what they're doing" makes a convenient excuse for NOT reporting an incident of criminal abuse, for blaming the victim rather than the perpetrator. Thank you, El Ron, for providing criminals with this handy dandy justifier...

But these excuses are not limited to scientologists -- sexual predators who prey on children, who have never heard of scientology, have been rationalizing their actions and cleverly manipulating the victim and the victim's parent(s) for decades.

I know of nothing SPECIFIC in scientology "scripture" that promotes or encourages pedophilia -- not like the Warren Jeffs case, where his "marriages" and sexual abuse of those many little girls was actually part of the religious beliefs and doctrine of that cult -- but there are plenty of "loopholes" in scientology scripture that can be used to protect such criminals.

For example, "upstat" contribution of big bucks to the Co$; "upstats" on post production in the case of staff/Sea Org; "downstats" of the victim which lowers their credibility; and of course the fact that such a crime, if reported to "wog" authorities, is going to create a flap and bring disrepute on the "church" and the "good name" of scientology.

The protection of children (of either sex) from adults who prey upon them is a big issue in the society outside of scientology. It's very unfortunate, but not surprising in light of all we know about Hubbard and his "policies", that children receive little or no protection within the cult.
 
I think also, there is this attitude of "being ethical" which pervades scientology in general which to some extent, the staff and public adhere to (or at least I did through out my years on staff and on lines) where such behavior is unacceptable.

For many years I did feel and act like I was part of the most ethical group on the planet. Now I have no clue whether that is prevailent amongst the out ethics types or if they meerly paid lip service to it. I am not trying to say there weren't people who are unethical in Scn, it was just part of the culture I was in within the group to uphold those standards.

Maybe that pollyanna belief in the ethicalness of the rest of the group members that makes scios particularly vulnerable to scams and being preyed on is a part of the equation Hubbard and DM created to gain for our unfettered support of the group with our wallets.

I totally agree there is too much favoritsm of celebs and high rollers who dono heavy and there is too much of the "buy your self out of ethics" going on. And perhaps that is why, these crimes of pediphilia get swept under the table, no one wants to confront entheta, and the "it's pr world" mentality and the willingness to do anything to protect the reputation of the church.

But what do you expect from a group that would rather hear theta news instead of the truth?

Mimsey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
<SNIP>
But whatthey only want to hear the theat anews! do you expect from a group that would rather hear theta news instead of the truth?

A whole lot more child molestation than most people in that group would ever believe.

And payouts of over a half a million in cash to children who have been molested to keep their mouth shut.

But, some believe it has has never happened....they only listen to the "theta" news.

Has it gotten to where telling the truth is pointless?
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
When I was 11 I was molested by someone who was not a Scientologist, but he was saying that he was one, and lived in a trailer behind the parking garage at PAC (Los Angeles, big blue building). My mother was in the Sea Org, and I was under her care.

He was molesting other children as well. One of those children spoke out.

I was very afraid to. The guy had told me that he would kill me if I ever said anything. Other times he told me that I was the one doing illegal things and I would be in jail for the rest of my life. I went through it for eight months. It was terrifying for me.

When my mother found out about it, she was very, very angry. You think she was mad at him? Nope.

She was furious with me for taking her off post to deal with me.

We marched down to Scn security office, where they were holding the guy. I could see him in the window behind my mom, while she was angrily trying to find out if he ever touched me. He was behind her threatening me the entire conversation. Did no-one see it?

I think they did not want a Scn flap, and so wanted it to not come up.

They told me if he had touched me, I would have to go to court and tell a bunch of strangers what had happened. I was so terrified that I did not say a thing.

I believe the other girl must have said something, because he did end up in jail.

My mother told me years later that the guy contacted her and apologized and told her that he had found Jesus and asked forgiveness. My mom thought it was odd because she understood that he had never done anything to me.


-----

It seemed to me that it was all considered my fault and that I did pull it in.

------


All my life being raised in the Sea Org, I was treated as an adult. That was sure how it felt when it came to responsibility. Always we were responsible for our actions, from day 1. I had actual work to do in the org starting at age 5. No pay, of course. Ha. But lots of beans and rice!
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
A whole lot more child molestation than most people in that group would ever believe.

And payouts of over a half a million in cash to children who have been molested to keep their mouth shut.

But, some believe it has has never happened....they only listen to the "theta" news.

Has it gotten to where telling the truth is pointless?

Payouts? Where is my money? LOL.

There were no payouts in Scn for this. Just mind manipulation to make you believe its better to keep your F'n mouth SHUT!!!
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
@Bea Kiddo,

Thanks for telling your story here. Unfortunately, you are not at all alone in having undergone such an experience -- not only within scientology, but also in the "wog" world. Some stories of the parent's FAILURE to stand up for their children are absolutely apalling! as is yours.

It is common for predators to lay the "blame" on the victim, to threaten the victim with various levels of dire consequences (kill you, kill your family, you'll be prosecuted for your part in it, your parents will punish you because YOU did it... blah blah blah) that the child (with a child's limited life experience -- ok, "THIS LIFE" experience for anyone who needs convincing...) cannot discount.

The child remains silent and carries the secret -- the child's reason may even be to protect the family from scandal!

It is also common in the "wog" world for the parent to disbelieve the child and take the side of the predator -- the husband, the boyfriend, the adult coach, teacher, preacher, community leader, etc. etc. etc. MOST child molestors hide behind an appearance of respectability. Just as El Ron was "mankind's greatest friend," child molestors wear their cloak of "assets to the community."

If you doubt this, refer to the scandal of Catholic priests a few years back.

While a parent can quickly reassure a child that the predator's threats are groundless and that the parent will be there to protect them and begin the journey to healing from the experience, unfortunately, too many parents are quick to believe a convincing, manipulative adult and think children just make up stuff like that for (what reason? who knows!) ... so the child is silenced, the adult is protected and continues to offend.

The psychic damage to childlren who have been sexually abused, even in ways that some might consider "mild" abuse, can be grave. For anyone who might need it, there are self-help groups for survivors of incest and sexual abuse where people meet and share their stories, their journey, their healing and help each other to recover.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
@olska

Thank you. I believe you are correct.

I am past it pretty much now. But this is good information for those who may still need it! :blush:
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
I honesly tried to answer the queston of the OP.

But it seems not an answer.

It seems that the OP wants something more devious in response to what was asked.

Why make it deeper into imagination than stop at obvious? For the sake of further discussion?

Hubbard DIDN'T encourage child's rape/molestation. One CAN'T find it in his "scriptures" (unless one has himself insane and twisted mind).


BTW, OP title and content are likely to create cognitive dissonance. - Title is VERY different from what's been asked.

Vadim,

In my original post I never claimed that Hubbard coindoned sexual molestation. My question was simply "Would a Scientologist child molester refer to Hubbard's claim that the child was really an adult to convince himself that it wasn't abuse? There was no attempt to paint Hubbard darker than he already was (is that even possible?)
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Payouts? Where is my money? LOL.

There were no payouts in Scn for this. Just mind manipulation to make you believe its better to keep your F'n mouth SHUT!!!

There was a 16 year old girl in the SO in Clearwater. She was made to live with her senior. He was forcing himself on here. She wrote it up a bunch of times and nothing was done.

The "church" settled out of court for a modest $650,000.00 to keep it quiet.

So, yes, there have been in scn for child molestation.

And I absolutely agree with you that the church is going to bring all the pressure to bear that they can to keep the authorities out of it.

It is illegal to NOT report child abuse to the police but scn routinely goes to great lengths to keep the police out of it.

Oh, for any lurkers that are still in, if you do a KR or a "things that shouldn't be" report on child molestation or suspected child molestation do make sure you keep yourself a copy of any report you file. Those kinds of reports do tend to not exist if there is any chance law enforcement or child protective agencies might possibly get involved.

The Catholic Church became a haven for pedophiles once the pedophiles realized the church would always protect them. That proved to be very expensive.....and a PR nighmare. scn is on the same path.
 

Mystic

Crusader
There was a 16 year old girl in the SO in Clearwater. She was made to live with her senior. He was forcing himself on here. She wrote it up a bunch of times and nothing was done.

The "church" settled out of court for a modest $650,000.00 to keep it quiet.

So, yes, there have been in scn for child molestation.

And I absolutely agree with you that the church is going to bring all the pressure to bear that they can to keep the authorities out of it.

It is illegal to NOT report child abuse to the police but scn routinely goes to great lengths to keep the police out of it.

Oh, for any lurkers that are still in, if you do a KR or a "things that shouldn't be" report on child molestation or suspected child molestation do make sure you keep yourself a copy of any report you file. Those kinds of reports do tend to not exist if there is any chance law enforcement or child protective agencies might possibly get involved.

The Catholic Church became a haven for pedophiles once the pedophiles realized the church would always protect them. That proved to be very expensive.....and a PR nighmare. scn is on the same path.

Yeow, Auditor's Toad, 650K! That is really interesting. And good advice on keeping a copy.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
This question just occurred to me. There have been various cases of child molestation/rape, which were all covered up, and in some cases the victim's parents/mother told to lie to the authorites.

The motivation of the organisation to hush it up are obvious, but how do the perpetrators handle their guilt? (Provided that they feel guilty) Is it possible that they convince themselves that children are adults in small bodies and therefore able to deal with it? That would be logical, albeit utterly horrible.

Long after I was out i started to realize that I had always thought that Scientology was a *special* cult. I might have arrived at my point of opposition to it but I remained convinced that Scientology was an exceptional cult. Otherwise how could I have been taken in? After all I could see how stupid cults like People's Temple, Aum Shinrikyo, JW's, Mormons and all the long list of moonbats, actually were. But I had the unconscious idea that Scientology was 'different'.

Reading books like Monkey on a Stick made me realize that ALL CULTS abuse children. They abuse the helpless and the dependent.

Reading Bea's original posts on her story moved me beyond belief. I realized that we Sea org members had created the very environment that would assure that our children would be exposed to the possibility of abuse. I posted about it on XSO and it did provoke a lively back and forth.

I am incredibly relieved that Bea has moved on and has created such a wonderful family and incredibly ashamed that she had to do it despite the adult SO members who should have been protecting her and all the other children.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Yeow, Auditor's Toad, 650K! That is really interesting. And good advice on keeping a copy.

There times one does not want to learn the way that those people will - and do - make written records disappear.

Then they fall back on the " If it isn't written it isn't true " utter insanity.

I continue to believe there is far more to this child molestation problem in that group and the history and origins of it than are known outside a tight ( and scared ) little clique.

One day somebody will publicly provide the facts.
Meanwhile, it is a ripe area to explore,
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
<snip>... realize that ALL CULTS abuse children. They abuse the helpless and the dependent.
<snip>
....created the very environment that would assure that our children would be exposed to the possibility of abuse
<snip>
....should have been protecting her and all the other children.

Uh, right, the most ethical group on the planet decided children were adults in small bodies.

Damn.
 

Mystic

Crusader
This is one very ugly subject. Looking into the practices of "evil" is not easy to do. Sometimes I wonder just how far down Scientology goes in what it actually does.

How about ritual cannibalism?
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
This is one very ugly subject. Looking into the practices of "evil" is not easy to do. <snip>

scn claims to value a high confront of evil.

Yet scn scurries and hides in the dark when its own evil is brought into the light.

Please, Keep making it harder for them to hide from truth of their cult.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
When I was 11 I was molested by someone who was not a Scientologist, but he was saying that he was one, and lived in a trailer behind the parking garage at PAC (Los Angeles, big blue building). My mother was in the Sea Org, and I was under her care.

He was molesting other children as well. One of those children spoke out.

I was very afraid to. The guy had told me that he would kill me if I ever said anything. Other times he told me that I was the one doing illegal things and I would be in jail for the rest of my life. I went through it for eight months. It was terrifying for me.

When my mother found out about it, she was very, very angry. You think she was mad at him? Nope.

She was furious with me for taking her off post to deal with me.

We marched down to Scn security office, where they were holding the guy. I could see him in the window behind my mom, while she was angrily trying to find out if he ever touched me. He was behind her threatening me the entire conversation. Did no-one see it?

I think they did not want a Scn flap, and so wanted it to not come up.

They told me if he had touched me, I would have to go to court and tell a bunch of strangers what had happened. I was so terrified that I did not say a thing.

I believe the other girl must have said something, because he did end up in jail.

My mother told me years later that the guy contacted her and apologized and told her that he had found Jesus and asked forgiveness. My mom thought it was odd because she understood that he had never done anything to me.


-----

It seemed to me that it was all considered my fault and that I did pull it in.

------


All my life being raised in the Sea Org, I was treated as an adult. That was sure how it felt when it came to responsibility. Always we were responsible for our actions, from day 1. I had actual work to do in the org starting at age 5. No pay, of course. Ha. But lots of beans and rice!

Thanks for posting that Bea. It just makes me so angry.... you "pulled it in"....:angry:
 
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