Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you guys

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I've been going in to the board a lot more lately...once a day, minimum, often thrice, and deleting stuff.

The message queue thing was not working.

ESMB gets spammy shit too and then it has to get deleted or locked down or whatever.

I won't say Emma's my pundit :coolwink: (that's meant in a loving jovial way, Ems) but I will say that I find observing her running of ESMB to be helpful to me when I'm trying to figure things out on my own forum.
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I came by to check out what's happening in the outskirts of Scientology - only to discover a big thread about a forum I started 18 months ago.

I think Mark hit the mark and that Panda is doing some intense but graceful Kung-fu.

The forum have two value as as I see it; Discussion on Scientology in a space where Scientologists are treated with respect and where logic rules the day - and to keep for posterity important knowledge that has surfaced on the board's discussions.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I set up the sub forum on my board for discussion of OT and confidential matters. All posts are moderated and the topic is clearly marked and separate. I also put in an announcement pertaining to it
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I came by to check out what's happening in the outskirts of Scientology - only to discover a big thread about a forum I started 18 months ago.

I think Mark hit the mark and that Panda is doing some intense but graceful Kung-fu.

The forum have two value as as I see it; Discussion on Scientology in a space where Scientologists are treated with respect and where logic rules the day - and to keep for posterity important knowledge that has surfaced on the board's discussions.

Fine, Geir, but that should be happening here on ESMB. I shouldn't have to go to another board to find it. If it isn't happening here, then there's something wrong IMO. Respect for people as people should be the sine qua non of everything that takes place here.

I see a red flag here though. By "respect," some people would take that to mean that no one has the right to challenge other people's sacred cows. That was my problem with John Nunez's board - he didn't want anyone posting anything about LRH or the Tech which he didn't like, irrespective of whether it was true or not.

Some would say that "we're all entitled to our own viewpoints"; sure we are, but some viewpoints approximate more closely to Truth than others (a damn sight more closely in some cases), and without seeing discussions in which all get to have their say you're not going to know which is which.

The closer you get to the truth of how the mind actually works, the better the results you're likely to get, and that's why it matters to find out and then practice that knowledge when you find it or follow the guidance of someone who does have that knowledge.

For example, some people say on here that you don't need to run your Grades - all you need are some caring friends to talk to. Sure, caring friends can help, but caring friends coming round to help you fix your house aren't necessarily going to have the same skills and knowledge as a professional and it's the same with counselling or auditing.

Another one - can you do it all on your own (as, say, Pilot used to maintain) or do you need someone else to work with you at least some of the time? Another very vexed question on here and I've seen passionately held views on both sides.

We should all be able to have our say and then agree to differ if needs be without the whole thing deteriorating into a slanging match. IMO, things are far less likely to get personal if we all realise from the outset that all - yes ALL - of us are whistling in the dark to some extent and no one knows everything about the mind and spirit.

It's impossible on this low vibration plane IMO. To quote Corinthians 13, "Now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I am known."
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

ESMB and WWP remain the two major fora for criticism of Scn with OCMB as a distinct third. Scnforum.org is probably not even fourth, heh.

ESMB is relatively mild with respect to treatment of those still interested in a few, some, many or all aspects of Scn. (Indies tend to run the gamut in that regard). Yeah, it gets wild and woolly and sometimes people get snarky. But, really, would you have it any other way? We're exercising our rights of freedom of speech. You really don't get that in any CofS venue. On WWP, you have freedom but there's so much trolling that any pro tech posts, even those which admit to problems with Scn and which aren't "KSW"ish, are likely to end up 'domed. And that's fine, that's them.

So FZers and Indies can come here and they do, and it's mostly ok.

The only times I really get dismayed by some critics' treatment of Indies and FZers are those of a few people who try and have in the past tried to drive Scn'ists off this and other fora and off the internet in general. Those people are an extremely tiny albeit noisy minority.

There are people like Infinite and ITYIWT who can sometimes be a bit acerbic about Indies and FZers and that scene in general, but I never get any feeling from them that they'd like to drive anyone off the forum. Not even a little bit. Not a chance. They also are extremely nice about meeting Indies and others with whom they disagree halfway if the other person is willing. The non CofS Scn'ist who writes them off does so foolishly, as they are decent people- and often charming and fun to talk to.

I have noticed that a couple non CofS Scn'ists either now post rarely or not at all here and have opted to mainly post to fora where everyone has more or less the same point of view re the tech. I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's maybe the best thing for them. I'm not saying anyone needs to be deprogrammed or whatnot, but being someplace where the opinions are diverse can be quite broadening and mentally stimulating. For my money, the other kinds of fora are circle jerks.
 
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AnonLover

Patron Meritorious
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's maybe the best thing for them.

Great post Claire... ^^Except for maybe this, to each their own i think. there will always be some lifelong Scn'ist come what may / no matter what. And with all the group-centric doctrine in the tech, only make sense some will always prefer keep to themselves.

But here's hoping that shrinks and dwindles (just like the mother church) over time.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

My emphasis

ESMB and WWP remain the two major fora for criticism of Scn with OCMB as a distinct third. Scnforum.org? Well, probably not even fourth, heh.

ESMB is relatively mild with respect to treatment of those still interested in a few, some, many or all aspects of Scn. (Indies tend to run the gamut in that regard). Yeah, it gets wild and woolly and sometimes people get snarky. But, really, would you have it any other way? We're exercising our rights of freedom of speech. You really don't get that in any CofS venue. On WWP, you have freedom but there's so much trolling that any pro tech posts, even those which admit to problems with Scn and which aren't "KSW"ish, are likely to end up 'domed. And that's fine, that's them.

So FZers and Indies can come here and they do, and it's mostly ok.

The only times I really get dismayed by some critics' treatment of Indies and FZers are those of a few people who try and have in the past tried to drive Scn'ists off this and other fora and off the internet in general. Those people are an extremely tiny albeit noisy minority.

There are people like Infinite and ITYIWT who can sometimes be a bit acerbic about Indies and FZers and that scene in general, but I never get any feeling from them that they'd like to drive anyone off the forum. Not even a little bit. Not a chance. They also are extremely nice about meeting Indies and others with whom they disagree halfway if the other person is willing. The non CofS Scn'ist who writes them off does so foolishly, as they are decent people- and often charming and fun to talk to.

I have noticed that a couple non CofS Scn'ists either now post rarely or not at all here and have opted to mainly post to fora where everyone has more or less the same point of view re the tech. I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's maybe the best thing for them. I'm not saying anyone needs to be deprogrammed or whatnot, but being someplace where the opinions are diverse can be quite broadening and mentally stimulating. For my money, the other kinds of fora are circle jerks.


Lol, I will admit (but only cos it's you Fluffy) that when directly addressing a scientologist (or a knock-off version) I'm very much aware of the brick-wall that surrounds them ("TR's") and to penetrate it you have to be very clever or very lucky, I'm also aware that it is highly unlikely that I will ever do so, so my interest is with the lurkers and the new people.

Indies and Freezoners are a special breed of people that I will never truly relax with, but that doesn't mean I don't like them (it just means they don't and won't like me!).

:coolwink:

I was not mentally or spiritually free when I arrived here ... it was a gradual process as it is for most, and it was the straight speaking of Mick Wenlock, Zinj, Emma, Veda, Alanzo (and later the beloved HelluvaHoax!) plus a few others that made me sit up and really look at the reality, and be strong enough to climb out of the cultic mind trap that I was firmly in.

There were also lots of other softer posters that I loved reading and they rounded off the edges ... it's the combination of posters that makes ESMB what it is including Indies and Freezoners and the fearless and raucous interchange between us all can be very enlightening to lurkers IMO.

I believe that most people only dump the cult and cultic thinking when they are truly ready and little that I or anyone else has to say will change that, but there are lots of people that are ready and just need a firm push and they will happily topple over the edge and get on the road to freedom!

If I help to shove one person (a day!) over the edge, I'll die happy ... but I know it won't be an Indie/Freezoner because they are 'special' ... and I'm not.

:happydance:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

Thanks for the observation. Its true, except "acerbic"? Well . . . maybe, sometimes, and, since it coming from you, I'll bear it in mind.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

Thanks for the observation. Its true, except "acerbic"? Well . . . maybe, sometimes, and, since it coming from you, I'll bear it in mind.

:surprise1:

Lol.

That would have been meant more for me than you Infinite, I've never seen a bitter and twisted post from you ever, but I've seen posts by you that are passionate and pertinent often ... you don't need to suck lemons to achieve either of those wonderful traits (which is a good thing cos there's currently a world wide shortage, cos I've sucked them all).

:witch2:​
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Meeting of the Mutual Admiration Society

:surprise1:

Lol.

That would have been meant more for me than you Infinite, I've never seen a bitter and twisted post from you ever, but I've seen posts by you that are passionate and pertinent often ... you don't need to suck lemons to achieve either of those wonderful traits (which is a good thing cos there's currently a world wide shortage, cos I've sucked them all).

:witch2:​

As always, you are far too kind. And, as you also know, "acerbic" can also mean "sharp and forthright" which, I guess, is a polite way of describing someone who calls a "spade" a "bloody shovel". Guilty, I'm afraid. My only defence is that, like you I am often playing to the gallery rather than seeking dialogue because I know its not usually worth the effort. You, my friend, have the added advantage of a deft hand with humour. You're perfectly able to administer some medicine but there's always that spoonful of sugar. There's nothing bitter in anything of yours that I've read.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

Well, since neither you nor I have done OTIII we are possibly both blowing smoke.

To me it's one of those things that's "I'll find out when I get there"(IF I ever get there, as I don't have any plans to get any auditing etc).

I am aware of the 'exact time place form and event' formula and it makes a lot of sense to me. However I have no reality at all on whether I myself experienced the Xemu incident or was involved in any way, nor do I have any reality on whether the folks who have done that level agree on the content, and whether they all were subject to the incident. And whether the basic scenario is actually contained in the 'collective unconscious' of all of humanity.

My point has been all along that what is 'therapeutic' for an individual is working with whatever he finds in his mind to work with. If he finds Xemu, fine, if he doesn't find Xemu, still fine.

I don't really agree with any approach in which one person tells another person outright what s/he has in her/his mind. Freudian analysis does this (interpretation) which is my chief disagreement with it.

If this is indeed some part of OTIII, then there seems to be a contradiction of itself within scientology, because the lower levels, Clearing, and much of the original OT levels do not have this 'interpretive' approach according to the theory I have read, and the little auditing I've had.

But as I've said, I haven't done the level so I'm really just musing about it all. But I do understand the parts of scientology I understand. And I don't understand the parts of scientology I don't understand. And I also know what I do understand, and what I don't understand. And sometimes I find that what I thought I understood, I didn't understand as well as I thought understood it. But that's life.


Methinks that you understand it better than the majority of people here, regardless of whether they have done it or no. At the least, you know that XeMu is spelled with an M rather than an N. XeMu is correct. XeNu is incorrect. Tape #11 ( I'm almost certain) on Cl8, clearly spells it out. XeMu.


Challenge
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

It must not be easy being a Scientologist, a Homo Novis, a Clear, and an Operating Thetan, on a mud ball full of Earth people, Wogs, and Homo Saps.

It wouldn't be easy, I guess, to listen to tape#11 of the Cl 8 course to learn how to spell XeMu(mmmmm). The Hub clearly instructs that the name is XeMu. What's so hard about that ? No wonder "churchies" say that they never heard of Xenu. They haven't. But they know XeMu, that is if they have done Cl 8, or have a cram officer who has done it, or an OT3 Course Sup who is trained.
The "contagion of aberration" on these boards about the proper name of the "Galactic Overlord" contributes to the confusion about the level. If you are gonna discuss OT3 phenom., at least get the name right. It is spelled with an "M".
I have noticed that several people do have it right. The Pilot. Others.
o well. Obtuse is as obtuse does. One would appreciate accuracy in a discussion.

Challenge
XeMu.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

XeMu never comes out to defend himself.

didn't serve popcorn at the theater for 36 days either.
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

I think you're mistaken there, Fluffy. Right up until I left in 2008, Co-Audit students were doing the full battery of processes from the Process Sheet for each Grade to full EP for the Grade. There was an era when just doing the Quad Processes for the Grade was in vogue but that changed pretty quickly, AFAIK. Miss Pert could probably tell us for sure as she was auditing even more recently.

as early as 1976/77, or even earlier, we were auditing Expanded Grades, i.e. every single process for every single level.
The "Natural" and unnatural clears were shorted on their Grades. IIRC, they only ran the 'major process' for the Grade.
Hopefully, cos went back to running the full battery of Ex Grades on their so-called 'clears'. The 'funnest' part of the Bridge.

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challenge
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

It wouldn't be easy, I guess, to listen to tape#11 of the Cl 8 course to learn how to spell XeMu(mmmmm). The Hub clearly instructs that the name is XeMu. What's so hard about that ? No wonder "churchies" say that they never heard of Xenu. They haven't. But they know XeMu, that is if they have done Cl 8, or have a cram officer who has done it, or an OT3 Course Sup who is trained.
The "contagion of aberration" on these boards about the proper name of the "Galactic Overlord" contributes to the confusion about the level. If you are gonna discuss OT3 phenom., at least get the name right. It is spelled with an "M".
I have noticed that several people do have it right. The Pilot. Others.
o well. Obtuse is as obtuse does. One would appreciate accuracy in a discussion.

Challenge
XeMu.

Actually, it's been used both ways (by the church). In Handwritten 28 Oct 68 DATA the spelling Xenu is clearly used.

So which way is right? Whichever you like.

But the proper pronunciation is probably somewhere in between.

Now if I can only get a pronunciation for Teegeeack . . . .

Helena
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you


Actually, it's been used both ways (by the church). In Handwritten 28 Oct 68 DATA the spelling Xenu is clearly used.

So which way is right? Whichever you like.

But the proper pronunciation is probably somewhere in between.

Now if I can only get a pronunciation for Teegeeack . . . .

Helena


No. It isn't "clearly used". It was mis-duplicated often enuff by early readers of the materials that the Hub had to make a special correction on his next tape.
I realize that you guys are not gonna change your mind about this. So be it.
It would not be important, did it not keep some people on the level for months or years. Having the "correct" data is all-important to the erasing of engrams/ implants.
Call him what you wish. I have done the level. I have audited dozens of people on End of Endless OT3 R/Ds. I have word-cleared the OT3 materials on other dozens of people ( at the AOLA). Of course, in order to do those actions, I myself have been word cleared out the kazoo on the OT3 materials.
Do a survey of the trained people here. ( Advanced Orgs). Notice the spelling that they use. The name is XeMu.
You guys know better. Great. Rock on.

challenge
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Re: Adventures with scnforum.org-- I really would like to get some feedback from you

ITIWT,

I always had an allergy to proselytization and "dissem". So you can imagine how weird it was for me when I was in CofS. I tend to think there's a difference between trying to, oh, I don't know, convert someone and trying to reach out with info. But there's a grey area and a really blurred line between the two.

So my bottom line comes out in two conclusions I drew which are:

1) In talking to you, ultimately, anyone who's sincere with you is conversed with (and not talked at) and ends up talking with a good person.

2) the above notwithstanding, my own feelings about "dissem" apart, if someone's own convictions and ideas cannot withstand what anyone else may be saying, whether they be civil or not, then that person's the one with the problem.

It's a whole diverse world out there. Anyone, pro or anti or in between on Scn (or any other topic) needs to be able to coexist with others. And that means coexist with people who may be saying all sorts of things, all sorts of ways.

Love ya!!!
 
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