Advice Pls. Speaking Truth to Those Still IN

A parent got me into Scientology.

I blew over a year ago and let the parent know I wasn't going back.

This parent promised that nothing would keep them from speaking to me (I was never declared), and seems to be very respectful in some aspects with my decision to not be involved any longer. This parent makes sure no other Scn's are at the house when I go to visit. This parent has not given any Scn's my new phone number or address. This parent hasn't once suggested I return to the church.

However, this parent frequently tries to speak with me about Scn tech and how it is affecting their life. This parent likes to mention things LRH said and uses Scientologese with me.

I think this may be because when I left I had told this parent that I "still believed in LRH's teachings but I have had enough with the organization." This opinion has changed. I no longer feel this way. I also wish to express to this parent the hell that was being on staff and the hell that was leaving.

It is eating me up inside that my own parent, who I love very much, and who loves me very much, is still involved in a group that hurt me so badly. It eats me up inside that this parent is being continuously duped and brainwashed by this group.

I don't wish to convince this parent one way or the other about Scientology. I just need them to know. I'm even okay with acknowledging any wins they've had in Scientology, as long as they know where I'm coming from.

I am meeting with this parent's spouse soon to talk to them. This is my stepparent, but someone who has been around for over half of my life. This stepparent is not a Scientologist, and generally keeps their mouth shut about it all and lets my parent do their thing. I am speaking with my stepparent soon to let them know everything. I need my stepparent to know.

My plan is to speak with my stepparent and then get their take on how I should proceed with speaking with my parent. Then I want to speak with both of them.

I understand I am stirring the pot here. But it is something I NEED to do for my own peace of mind. I can't keep the degree to which I was damaged from my parents. I can't keep pretending like everything is OK and I came out unscathed. I may seem OK on the outside, but inside, I am changed forever.

Before I do this, I am wondering if anyone here has any advice for speaking to my (non scn) stepparent and Scn parent? I am also wondering if anyone else here has any experience with telling anyone who was still "in" their experiences? How did it go? What do you feel you did right? What would you have done differently?

Thanks in advance for the tips. This board has been a source of comfort and strength for me.
 

Leland

Crusader
As I'm sure you already know, speaking with Scion parent, they will filter what you say through their Scien addled mind. It might be hard to crack their facade. You might ask them if they've had tiny doubts... Perhaps on KSW... And giving up their own right to decern or think about anything but Scien teachings.

Your non Scien step parent might start to unload to you. Your leaving Scien might break their dammed up thoughts and feeling......just a possibility.

I suppose you have to consider that Scien parent will worry about their having to turn themselves into Ethics.......and confess that they are now PTS. You might even use that knowledge to crack the Scien shell a bit? Just imagine an adult....your parent ...turning themselves in to ethics. It is sad but that is the reality of it.

Just a few thoughts.

You're in the drivers seat. Welcome to ESMB.

Please don't buckle and go back.....you're out!
 
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If the parent gets the point that you are not asking him/her to do anything
except listen and understand you then s/he will probably be a "good auditor"
or just a good person and do as you request, given that s/he has already been quite respectful of you so far.

It's weird when we say things to someone and later change our views in important
ways and have to "update the program" LOL. I'm referring to your changed views
about the tech and LRH etc. Good luck.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Your post was so genuine and real. If you approach the subject with love for them and how you feel but are suppressed on talking about it. like Because of the "tech" you feel that can't be yourself around them and it bother's you. Talk about the Creed of a Scientologist- read it to them...speak freely, write freely, practice any religion they choose but if you did that around them - they would be PTS and have to disconnect. Where is the freedom in that?

Talk about the 3rd party law and state that you notice that Scientology gets in between relationships and shatters them - if another Scientologist leaves - they can't talk about why to any active members or they will get declared.

Be honest and real and let it unfold - don't force it. IF they start to get defensive - back off.

Perhaps bring up something like "KSW" ~ you could say -

How come we were sold a Bridge that had incorrect techology when all the while it was being sold - COB did know it had been "altered" - yet he allowed Scientology to sell the "old tech" that was flawed and incorrect. I am confused about the doctrine of exchange - can you explain this to me so I can understand it better. KSW says "Knowing you have the correct technology and that is DONE" all the while - COB is planning to release new tech where people have to do the old stuff over again."

Ask them who God is to them.

Ask them about the tech "anyone that cricizes Scientology they have overts". Does that mean if a kid was molested by a minister and they told someone - the kid has overts. How would that help the minister? If you had a beef with a store because they sold you defective goods - and you wrote a complaint to the Attorney General - does that mean you have overts against the store? You don't understand this tech and it could get a church in trouble if they are doing things that are hurting people but no one can talk about it.

They have to have doubts....find out what they are.

Good luck and be yourself. Perhaps if the pressure they felt from the "tech" would make it real that they could lose you - it might shatter their bubble of lies.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation


It's a tricky one and I feel for you because the outcome is unpredictable ... if possible I would not tell them anything (at this stage) about your own upsets with scio verbally, a look or a glance can communicate much but can't be used against you later (as you can always deny it or say they "misunderstood").

Keep it simple and keep it light and most of all keep your hurt and upset bottled up tight while you are with them ... find someone you can trust to deal with that (I know that sounds awful but truly, I think it's best).

Perhaps the most you could hope for is that your parent ceases talking "scio" when you are around and you have every right to ask for that, maybe you could tell the parent that you just want to live a normal life and don't want any influences from anywhere (which automatically includes scientology but doesn't isolate it in your parents mind) because you are determined to work things out for yourself (which is true).

:whistling:

Your step-parent may be treading a path that you could follow (tolerating the nonsense scio talk but never adding anything, just letting it flow over his/her head) ... you would know if that is what is happening. Your parent may get the message (eventually) if you literally ignore and look blank at any mention of "tek'" or hubbard ... I'd never try and discuss anything scio (at this stage) I'd just let it "sit there" even though it will be uncomfortable, don't give the parent any ammunition and try and accept (right now) that your relationship will almost certainly be changed and lessened (hopefully only temporarily) because that may be easier to take than a complete disconnection?

Whatever happens it won't be easy and I wish you all the luck in the world, the very person you want to talk to and get some comfort from just won't be there for you (unless the parent decides to leave too at the very same moment, which is unlikely) ... so please use us instead, we do understand and care because many of us have been in your situation (including me).


 

Gib

Crusader
A parent got me into Scientology.

I blew over a year ago and let the parent know I wasn't going back.

This parent promised that nothing would keep them from speaking to me (I was never declared), and seems to be very respectful in some aspects with my decision to not be involved any longer. This parent makes sure no other Scn's are at the house when I go to visit. This parent has not given any Scn's my new phone number or address. This parent hasn't once suggested I return to the church.

However, this parent frequently tries to speak with me about Scn tech and how it is affecting their life. This parent likes to mention things LRH said and uses Scientologese with me.

I think this may be because when I left I had told this parent that I "still believed in LRH's teachings but I have had enough with the organization." This opinion has changed. I no longer feel this way. I also wish to express to this parent the hell that was being on staff and the hell that was leaving.

It is eating me up inside that my own parent, who I love very much, and who loves me very much, is still involved in a group that hurt me so badly. It eats me up inside that this parent is being continuously duped and brainwashed by this group.

I don't wish to convince this parent one way or the other about Scientology. I just need them to know. I'm even okay with acknowledging any wins they've had in Scientology, as long as they know where I'm coming from.

I am meeting with this parent's spouse soon to talk to them. This is my stepparent, but someone who has been around for over half of my life. This stepparent is not a Scientologist, and generally keeps their mouth shut about it all and lets my parent do their thing. I am speaking with my stepparent soon to let them know everything. I need my stepparent to know.

My plan is to speak with my stepparent and then get their take on how I should proceed with speaking with my parent. Then I want to speak with both of them.

I understand I am stirring the pot here. But it is something I NEED to do for my own peace of mind. I can't keep the degree to which I was damaged from my parents. I can't keep pretending like everything is OK and I came out unscathed. I may seem OK on the outside, but inside, I am changed forever.

Before I do this, I am wondering if anyone here has any advice for speaking to my (non scn) stepparent and Scn parent? I am also wondering if anyone else here has any experience with telling anyone who was still "in" their experiences? How did it go? What do you feel you did right? What would you have done differently?

Thanks in advance for the tips. This board has been a source of comfort and strength for me.

read some hubbard positioned books, like Nap. Hill and Dale C.

Tell the folks of your wins.

Wins vs Wins. LOL

don't say scientology is shit.

Tell your wins in life. And it's cheap reading other books hubbard mentioned in his lectures.

That also positions yourself as a true seeker of knowledge.
 
Thanks Leland!

I know that with my Scn parent, they will be thinking through their Scn facade. I know that I may not be able to crack it. I just need to say what I need to say, and to hell with the consequences!

I am wondering if my non-Scn parent will unload, I definitely did consider that a possibility! Non-Scn parent and I are not that close, so I am not sure how they will react. To be honest, this is the first time I have EVER come to them with anything I've ever needed to say. So we'll see how it goes.

I can only imagine the juicy drama that could come from my Scn parent turning themselves in to Ethics. I imagine that whatever I say to them will hit them eventually, and this parent is very stubborn, so I imagine long days of them arguing with an ethics officer behind closed doors. ;)

If my parent turns themselves in to Ethics and names me? Well, BOY-HOWDY I could finally get that Goldenrod I've had my eye on for a while now!

It is strange thinking that the same parent that taught me right from wrong and rescued me from situations where I got in over my head is now totally over their head and I'll be saying something about it. I think I'm learning the beauty of being an adult child. :)

And no worries, I couldn't go back if I tried!
 
Thanks degraded_being!

I really like that point of just having them listen and be a "good auditor." I will definitely keep that in mind when I do speak to my Scn parent!

So right on "updating the program." I feel like it's a closet I've gotta step out of. :)
 
Knows-

You bring up some very good holes in the doctrine! I don't intend on debating "the tech" with my scn parent, but if it comes down to it or I am asked to, I'll definitely bring up those points.

One of the biggest things I want to drive home with my non-Scn parent is that I was threatened with declaration a few times, which includes disconnection from my Scn parent. My non-Scn parent is very protective of our family. I think if they knew that, they would be furious.

Like I said in the OP, my intention is not to convince my Scn parent one way or the other. But I do hope it has an effect on this parent. I think it will.

Thanks for the advice!
 

FoTi

Crusader
Thanks degraded_being!

I really like that point of just having them listen and be a "good auditor." I will definitely keep that in mind when I do speak to my Scn parent!

So right on "updating the program." I feel like it's a closet I've gotta step out of. :)

If your Scientology parent is a trained auditor, I'm wondering if that parent would be willing to take you in session and handle your ARCXs in regards to the SO. This way you might be able to get that parent to just listen to you.
 
Hey ITYIWT,

Thanks for the good luck wishes!

You are right, the outcome of the entire thing is unpredictable. There is no way of knowing even how my non-Scn parent will react. I have no idea.

Here's what I DO know:

The more I sit with this inside of me, the worse I will feel. The less I speak the truth, the more trapped I become. I love my parents. They love me. And I know they would want to know if anyone or anything hurt me to the extent that Scientology did. They would want to know if their own child thought they were being scammed. I consider it my responsibility to tell them the truth, no matter how harsh.

I have considered the possibility that my Scn parent would disconnect from me. I have other Scn family, too, that could even follow suit. If they did, I would still write e-mails. I would still send letters. I would still let them know I loved and cared about them. Nothing will change that.

I would rather be honest with them and have them disconnect, than to have a strained, painful, uncomfortable relationship where nobody can be themselves and there's a 50 ton elephant in the room. I want to know my real family, and I want them to know the real me.

Also, if someone is about to walk into a big pile of dog shit, you would tell them, right?

"Hey, just so you know, no one picks up after their dogs around here, and I stepped in a few steaming piles just a few feet away. The owners get mad when you accuse them of not cleaning up the shit, but, well, they don't. No one can seem to get them to clean it up. So just watch your step ok? I don't want you to ruin your shoes like I did."

I understand your viewpoint of not saying anything, I really do. ESMB has been a great board and a great place to speak how I feel and get support. Unfortunately, in my area, I haven't been able to find any totally ex-Scn's (they are all indies it seems), and I need a real-life person who I can give eye contact to and who I can reach out and hug at the end of my conversation about it all. Yes, I've spoken with trusted people about it. But it is not the same. For me, this is part of the healing process, and I'm going for it. :)
 
If your Scientology parent is a trained auditor, I'm wondering if that parent would be willing to take you in session and handle your ARCXs in regards to the SO. This way you might be able to get that parent to just listen to you.

Haha! Clever! No, they are not a trained auditor.... Even if it were so, I'd never go in session again. Whooooooa no. Lol
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Hey ITYIWT,

Thanks for the good luck wishes!

You are right, the outcome of the entire thing is unpredictable. There is no way of knowing even how my non-Scn parent will react. I have no idea.

Here's what I DO know:

The more I sit with this inside of me, the worse I will feel. The less I speak the truth, the more trapped I become.
I love my parents. They love me. And I know they would want to know if anyone or anything hurt me to the extent that Scientology did. They would want to know if their own child thought they were being scammed. I consider it my responsibility to tell them the truth, no matter how harsh.

I have considered the possibility that my Scn parent would disconnect from me. I have other Scn family, too, that could even follow suit. If they did, I would still write e-mails. I would still send letters. I would still let them know I loved and cared about them. Nothing will change that.

I would rather be honest with them and have them disconnect, than to have a strained, painful, uncomfortable relationship where nobody can be themselves and there's a 50 ton elephant in the room. I want to know my real family, and I want them to know the real me.

Also, if someone is about to walk into a big pile of dog shit, you would tell them, right?

"Hey, just so you know, no one picks up after their dogs around here, and I stepped in a few steaming piles just a few feet away. The owners get mad when you accuse them of not cleaning up the shit, but, well, they don't. No one can seem to get them to clean it up. So just watch your step ok? I don't want you to ruin your shoes like I did."

I understand your viewpoint of not saying anything, I really do. ESMB has been a great board and a great place to speak how I feel and get support. Unfortunately, in my area, I haven't been able to find any totally ex-Scn's (they are all indies it seems), and I need a real-life person who I can give eye contact to and who I can reach out and hug at the end of my conversation about it all. Yes, I've spoken with trusted people about it. But it is not the same. For me, this is part of the healing process, and I'm going for it. :)


Cool.

For what it's worth I think I totally understand (re bolded above) because I felt exactly the same and I did what you are about to do ... (I am the parent in the equation though).

My family did disconnect but, despite some rough years I've never regretted it for a moment.

Probably because you are the "child" in your situation (you sound very much like an adult though) I just wanted you to realise that disconnection is a very definite possibility if you go in "balls to the wall" and I see now that you do.


:love11:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Welcome!

I suggest you look over these must-see presentations made by a long time anonymous critic. This is a project in progress but the first 3 parts alone should be very helpful to you in how your parent looks at things ( How cognitive dissonance works in people, in particular with scientologists).

Waking Up From Scientology (Part 1)
Cognitive Dissonance vs. Cognitive Flexibility: Scientology is a closed belief system that exerts an undue influence over the cognitive processes of adherents. Breaking free of coercive persuasion is no easy task and requires changing how you think.
http://prezi.com/cvz4qlmscuzx/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy&rc=ex0share

Waking Up From Scientology (Part 2)
Cognitive Dissonance vs. Moral Dissonance & Related Coping Mechanisms for Dealing with Undue Influence. Understanding the different reactions caused by dissonance can be used to help loves ones trapped in the bubble of Scientology to break free.
http://prezi.com/hhuioj5hmqya/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy&rc=ex0share

Waking Up From Scientology (Part 3) is about "How to communicate with cult members & use thought provoking questions to guide them towards breaking free of undue influence by leveraging moral dissonance.
http://prezi.com/vcy0fu8w1nzu/?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=copy&rc=ex0share

Very insightful stuff.

The main page for the ongoing series can be found here
Waking Up From Scientology (Parts 1, 2 & 3)
http://prezi.com/user/evvirgvhhsrx/
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..

It's a perplexing problem in one respect. There is love and deep understanding between a child and parent, so naturally there is the impulse to want to continue that normal and healthy relationship.

But, on the other hand, talking to a still-in Scientologist (in my experience with relatives and friends) pretty much has to be SYNTHESIZED COMMUNICATION. Which is the exact opposite of real communication.

I am not going to give any advice because everyone has to decide for themselves how much fake communication they are willing to tolerate (i.e. good roads, fair weather) by avoiding the 2000 pound gorilla (implant) in the room.

With my own relatives and friends, I tried it a number of times but each time I didn't say what I wanted to say, I just ended up afterwards thinking: "Godddddd, that was stupid. What issssss the point?!"

That was pretty much my conclusion. (I would call it a cognition, but a "new awareness about life and livingness" can only happen in a paid session using Ron's technology, right? LOL).

I could not see any point in going through meaningless scripted conversations. It seemed pathetic and dishonest to me.

I suppose some people (far better people than me, I would admit) can selectively engage in light superficial social banter and never really talk. I couldn't stand it.

I didn't ever say anything "mean" to them personally (of course) but I would just ask them questions. (e.g. "Hey, I saw that article in the paper with all those people coming forward and saying that COB physically beat them up--what do you think about that?") The answers were so awfully dumb, I had to bite down hard to not laugh and blurt out something truthful. lol

But I did let them know about many things they clearly were not thinking about this way. Occasionally I dared to voice an opinion. None of them (seriously, none) ever wanted my opinion when they already had Ron's opinion. lol.

A couple times I even involuntarily blurted out a (gasp!) disagreement. It's probably Tourette's Syndrome, I'll get it handled, no worries.

(ps: WTF has Scientology done to Scientologists minds and spirits, anyways, if people have to meet secretly on the internet to strategize how to talk to them? LOLOLOL)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I think this may be because when I left I had told this parent that I "still believed in LRH's teachings but I have had enough with the organization." This opinion has changed. I no longer feel this way. I also wish to express to this parent the hell that was being on staff and the hell that was leaving.

Some thoughts:

1) You should explain to the non-Scn step parent what the disconnection policy means, and how it could affect you if you ever get officially declared. Have a long heart-to-heart talk about what may come.

2) Explain also that if the step-parent openly says negative things about Scn, that the org may pressure the Scn parent into divorce. Make this real. Show the parent some LRH PTS/SP references. This would bring the step-parent in on the desirability of the parent not being so committed to Scn.

3) You refer to "the hell that was being on staff and the hell that was leaving". You might talk about your personal experiences and what you personally saw IF THE SUBJECT COMES UP.

4) Be open to the possibility that the supposedly-in parent not being as committed as you think. The parent might be disaffected as well, but choosing to maintain a "front" of all being well, so as to avoid getting disconnected from Scn friends and family.
 

FoTi

Crusader
If your Scientology parent is a trained auditor, I'm wondering if that parent would be willing to take you in session and handle your ARCXs in regards to the SO. This way you might be able to get that parent to just listen to you.

Haha! Clever! No, they are not a trained auditor.... Even if it were so, I'd never go in session again. Whooooooa no. Lol

Sounds like you had some b-a-a-a-a-d auditing. I'd say that's too bad because good auditing can be a really good experience, but on the other hand I guess it's good that it was bad, because you're out now and don't want to go back and that's a good thing.

Sorry....I don't know where I got the idea that you were in the SO. I see you were on a five year contract for staff when you blew.

Perhaps when your parent brings up Scientology and talks about how it has affected their life, you could tell your parent that you would also like to talk about how it has affected your life but that you are afraid to say anything for fear that they wouldn't accept what you have to say and might disconnect from you. Say how important honesty is to you and that you would like to be able to be honest with them, but have been withholding your communication with them for fear of the consequences. See what your parent's response is to just that much. If it's negative, back off and just leave it at that. Give them some time to think it over. Wait to see if they come back to you and reach out to you with a willingness to listen to what you have to say about how Scientology has affected your life.

From what you have said it looks to me like you have a very good relationship with your parents. It looks like they are protecting you by not giving the church any of your information and by making sure that there are no Scientologists there when you come to visit and they are not pressuring you to go back. These are good signs.

However you choose to handle this, I wish you the best.
 
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