Advice Por favor

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well it is my plan to stay anonymous and “in the closet” in regards to my departure of the cult of $cientology until I was prepared and had “come out” to my immediate family who are ALL scilons. I know this won’t be easy to do and I am working on being prepared for the fallout I will get from my family after my ‘confession’. The cult, its influences and the effects that it had on me are the current subjects I am addressing with my therapist. I am working on being ready to come out to my family and if at all possible save them. Once that is done I will move onto what I can do to help the movement of bringing down the cult.

Here’s what’s going on: I am being contacted by current scilons on facebook who are (were?) old friends of mine. I also have friends on FB who are vocal critis of scn. I have been contacted by four people to warn me about them. So – me thinks this may be the start of my being ‘forced’ from the closet. Right now I am being advised by my therapist to ignore the queries but that, I assume, will only last so long.

Can anyone tell me, from personal experience, what occurs when this all happens? What moves will scn take against me? Will the scilons start promoting people to disconnect from me? Will there be an attempt to contact me? I haven’t had any contact in over 5 years – in org or on phone – and I know they don’t have my contact inform but they DO have my family’s contact info…. I hope I am not sounding paranoid but with all of the horror stories, I am concerned and would like to be prepared. I was ONLY on staff for crying out loud!
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Well it is my plan to stay anonymous and “in the closet” in regards to my departure of the cult of $cientology until I was prepared and had “come out” to my immediate family who are ALL scilons. I know this won’t be easy to do and I am working on being prepared for the fallout I will get from my family after my ‘confession’. The cult, its influences and the effects that it had on me are the current subjects I am addressing with my therapist. I am working on being ready to come out to my family and if at all possible save them. Once that is done I will move onto what I can do to help the movement of bringing down the cult.

Here’s what’s going on: I am being contacted by current scilons on facebook who are (were?) old friends of mine. I also have friends on FB who are vocal critis of scn. I have been contacted by four people to warn me about them. So – me thinks this may be the start of my being ‘forced’ from the closet. Right now I am being advised by my therapist to ignore the queries but that, I assume, will only last so long.

Can anyone tell me, from personal experience, what occurs when this all happens? What moves will scn take against me? Will the scilons start promoting people to disconnect from me? Will there be an attempt to contact me? I haven’t had any contact in over 5 years – in org or on phone – and I know they don’t have my contact inform but they DO have my family’s contact info…. I hope I am not sounding paranoid but with all of the horror stories, I am concerned and would like to be prepared. I was ONLY on staff for crying out loud!

Thanks for asking here and, there are a lot of people here who can give you some answers. I hope you won't mind if I throw in my thoughts too, although, I have not been 'personally' faced with theis problem, but, I *have* been very closely involved with others over years.

A couple of things are probably going on. Your scilon friends on facebook know you're in 'contact' with 'suppressive' elements. What's *not* clear is whether the 'Church' itself is aware of this, or, whether the 'Church' is aware of who you are here. Eventually they *will* know, since the only way to keep total 'security' is to be totally silent.

My guess would be that they do already know and that your FB friends have already filed KRs on you and that, likely, given only the information you've given so far here and there, they also know 'who you are'. Here.

The first action would be exactly what you've gotten so far; you've been 'warned off' by your 'friends'. If that doesn't drive you into hiding and terror and introversion, the 'next' step will be a 'recovery' effort by the 'Church'. Possibly using your family members. That will include 'DA Packs' on the 'suppressives' you're in contact with on FB and here.

If they think you might be of use, and, if you seem terrified enough and 'compliant' the 'Church' may attempt to use you, rather than demanding that you break off all 'connection' with suppressive elements. That would mean that you would be contacted *personally* by OSA.

After that you'll face a gradient of 'recovery'/extortion moves involving your family and friends, and, yes, your family will be told to disconnect from you if the recovery doesn't 'take'.

In any case, there's no way back once you're on the 'radar'. You will *never* be 'in good standing' again. That's not to say that you need to do anything but be you. You can continue posting here and on FaceBook; you can continue to communicate to any of your friends and family until *they* break off contact with you.

I would *not* see it as essential to become an 'activist' against Scientology unless you're of the opinion that you want to. The only rule here is to *be Yourself*. Do what you think is right. Keep your *own* ethics in.

You don't have to convince your family; that's unlikely to happen. Just be you.

Zinj
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
I've never been though it so I can't help with that, but you've got support here if you ever need it. Choosing a different spiritual path is personal and not wrong no matter what they say. Please keep us informed if we can help or if you need to rant. :yes:
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks DCAnon – the support and comradeship that I get here is invaluable to me and I consider it an important part of my recovery.

Zinj – you are very knowledgeable, thank you so much. I never thought of OSA being anyone who would contact me. Reading your response, I remembered that my step-mother volunteers for OSA last I heard (haven’t spoken with her in years) – that should be interesting. I wonder what she specifically does – she wouldn’t answer last I was speaking to her and asked.

I have to admit I asked about the disconnection because I simply cannot confront it. I am very close to my family. I once asked my Mom while on staff if I got declared would she ever disconnect from me – she said she wouldn’t, but then again she wasn’t faced with the ultimatum at the time. Daughter or “the bridge’….. daughter or the bridge…..

I haven’t given any link between my FB account and this one….. so other than possible illegal activities I am not sure how they would be able to identify me.

Has anyone heard of any *recent* attempts by scilons to deprogram people trying to leave the cult?

Part of me wonders if I didn’t join ESMB for the very reason of scilons no longer wanting me.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I haven’t given any link between my FB account and this one….. so other than possible illegal activities I am not sure how they would be able to identify me.

Has anyone heard of any *recent* attempts by scilons to deprogram people trying to leave the cult?

Hate to tell you this FF, but, like I was saying before, the only 'security' is total silence, which is what the 'Church' wants. They're not stupid and they will almost certainly connect the facebook goings on with here. So, it's probably best to *assume* they know who you are. Not because there's something you can or should do about it, but because they just *love* jumping in with 'we know what you did yadda yadda' to try to shock you.

As to the rest; see Carmel's story. The 'deprogramming' goes on.

Zinj
 

Feral

Rogue male
Thanks DCAnon – the support and comradeship that I get here is invaluable to me and I consider it an important part of my recovery.

Zinj – you are very knowledgeable, thank you so much. I never thought of OSA being anyone who would contact me. Reading your response, I remembered that my step-mother volunteers for OSA last I heard (haven’t spoken with her in years) – that should be interesting. I wonder what she specifically does – she wouldn’t answer last I was speaking to her and asked.

I have to admit I asked about the disconnection because I simply cannot confront it. I am very close to my family. I once asked my Mom while on staff if I got declared would she ever disconnect from me – she said she wouldn’t, but then again she wasn’t faced with the ultimatum at the time. Daughter or “the bridge’….. daughter or the bridge…..

I haven’t given any link between my FB account and this one….. so other than possible illegal activities I am not sure how they would be able to identify me.

Has anyone heard of any *recent* attempts by scilons to deprogram people trying to leave the cult?

Part of me wonders if I didn’t join ESMB for the very reason of scilons no longer wanting me.

Scilons don't de-program, they re-program. They aren't very good at it, had a go at us while we getting our repayment. They'll search for your hopes and fears. Seeing my greatest fear was a cleared planet I was utterly immune.

If they are aware, or suspect you are out they will send 'stable' friends to talk to you and get data.

One of their invest tools is for OSA to tell a startling lie with a specific feature, say, like FF is now taking coke. Then they wait and see where it pops up. They can then trace who's talking to who by following the possible path the data traveled.

Just so you're forewarned. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
FF, I, like many others here, have not been through what you're going through. I can't tell you the best way to approach your family.

But I can tell you this: the Church has no power except what you give it. If your family is willing to give up their daughter, son, sister, whatever for the Bridge, I don't know how much you can do about that.

But you, what you do, the Church has no control over. If you don't want to be in the Church of Scientology you don't have to, because you have a fundamental right to follow the religion of your choosing. If they harass or threaten you, they are in the wrong, *and they know it.*.

You do what you think is best. Don't let anyone convince you to do otherwise. The Church of Scientology has exactly as much power over what you do as you give it. I'm not talking about your family or friends, just you.

As they say about bugs, they're more scared of you than you are of them. You don't have to be afraid of fair gaming, because fair gaming is illegal and they know it. If they try it on you, you let the internet know and the internet will figure out a way to make it stop.

You just do the best you can, that's all you can do. We'll still be here no matter what ends up happening.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
I was totally upfront about the outpoints I saw in the Church and let it be known. I didn't have to worry about anything because I did not have any family members too much involved with Scientology. Besides they had much greater affinity with me than with the Church. It was me who had introduced them to Scientology anyway, so I was the opinion leader for them and not the Church. Besides, our background of Hinduism is very strong and it was never substituted by Scientology.

A false Comm Ev was cooked up against me by Flag. I simply ignored it. When they called me, I was nice and simply told them that I was not interested in that Comm Ev. So, I got declared and I posted that "declare" on ESMB to demonstrate how ridiculous it was. That declare stated that I was on Internet reading anti-Scientology sites, and was reading squirrel books, such as, those by Eckhart Tolle. Well, I have right to my opinion and to my self-determinism and I was not hurting anyone. So, what is the problem Church is having with me? If the Church doesn't like to see people operating in a self-determined manner then they are worse than Islamic terrorists even. They are certainly not operating per Scientology tenets as I understood them. From my point of view, the Church of Scientology has gone squirrel, and I do not owe any allegiance to it.

FinallyFree, only thing that can be used to blackmail you are your attachments. Your attachment to your family will certainly be used to blackmail you. You just have to love your family without feeling attached to them. You'll have to overcome any "must have." That is the process being run here, and it is good.

Hinduism says we are trapped in this world because we feel attached to it. Attachment is not the same thing as love. Differentiate between these two things and you will be finally free for sure.

Love,
Vin

.
 

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
Attachment is not the same thing as love.

That's a hard one to learn, but totally worth it.
 

FlunkedForLaughing

Patron with Honors
If you suddenly get urgent messages to contact someone at the "church", you can ignore them if you want to. You are not obligated to contact them, no matter what the message says (no matter what threats are used). I recommend ignoring them if you are not ready to deal with it. Don't call back, don't email back, don't answer the door, don't let them in your home to talk just for a minute, or anything like that.

Their urgency usually dies down after Thursday. You might be on their "radar" this week, but not next week, or the week after. Then it all goes silent again.

In my situation, the longer I let Scn just drift away, the easier it's been for me. I left a year ago. I didn't have to go through a big confrontation or announcement or anything like that. I pretended to be a non-active Scn. A few times I had to be very careful and not call church people back, because I knew where the conversation might end up. I didn't want to be in a situation where they were threatening me to get back on course or get declared.

My wife could see that I wasn't into it anymore, and she accepted it, even though she considers herself a Scn. She didn't go running into the Org for them to handle me. She's not active anymore, and she's drifting away from it slowly too, which I'm happy about.

FFL
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Easy, simply get off facebook. Delete your account, so people who contact you have to do so through email - a nice, private, non-visible way. Real friends will call you to say hi anyway!

When all this has blown over and is all water gone under the bridge, start up a new facebook account with strict privacy settings and be selective about who you pick as friends, or simply dont set one up at all.

If there is one major failing Facebook has, it is that it promotes cyber stalking.

Good luck mate, and in the end you are OUT and your life is your own! Enjoy!
 
If you don't play the game then you can possibly limit the fallout to a negligible amount.

I mean that if, for example a scilon (even a family member) criticises a critic
of scientology you can just ignore it and if pressed, just act as though you have better of more urgent things to think about. As someone said, if you are asked to go to any "interviews", just don't go. No need to give them ammo to shoot you with. Someone may get frustrated with you. Their problem. Period.
Someone may want you to do X. You blithely decline, If they have a problem with that then it's their problem. Period. If you don't try to convince them of anything then they can only have a minor problem with you because you are not *actively* suppressive.

Just an idea. I imagine it could work well, but I am not in your situation.

It could result in someone realising that you really are done with scio, but since you are quiet and peaceful about it someone may confide in you about a few little doubts they have themselves. Keep your ears open.:)
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
The freedom of being visibly free from the cult is worth any loss of "loved ones" IMO.

I have had quite a number of friends drop me since noisily leaving but there's still a lot of people left in the world to talk to - and I'm betting that most of those friends will see soon what's really happening and get back into communication with me.

The cult will only try to "handle" you if they think you are susceptible to their standover tactics - otherwise they'll write you off as an incurable SP and leave it at that - they just don't have the staff these days to do too much :D
 

Carmel

Crusader
It's not an easy one, whichever way ya look at it.

On the one hand, if you're witholding from the CofS, "hiding" your real feelings or intent, and/or stopping yourself from speaking out, then that can just eat you up. On the other hand though, having your family disconnect from you over Scientology would be just awful.

If you are seen as an active 'critic' (and this could be by simply revealing and posting past occurances on the net), then you certainly are at risk of the 'church' getting other Scios to disconnect from you - including your family, and it would only be a matter of time before it happened.

If you did want to talk to your family (to get them to look at things from a different perspective), then you'd probably be wise to choose the one who would be most willing to do so, and take it from there. However, if you are think ing of doing this, then now would be the time to do it while you still can - If and when the 'church' gets to them about you, then they'd have to make a choice, and after that choice you may not have the opportunity. In addition, by talking to your family about this, you may be dobbing yourself in, and precipitate action by the church.

It's a tough one, but only you can make the call. Best of luck with it.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Finally Free

You are in a tough situation. It is deliberately made tough to try and shut you up. Scientology violates it's own creed regarding freedom of religious belief, freedom of speech, etc. Keep a copy handy when talking to Scino friends and relatives. And somewhere there's a great reference by Ron saying that Scientology can become totalitarian or something and asks Scientologists to not go along with it. The new site called friends of LRH has some great material in it too, to use on your friends. Stuff that will really get them thinking.

If I were you, I'd take advantage of the comm lines you have to your friends. Stay under the radar for the moment and just work on your friends and relatives. Approach them on a reality level that they can have. There are so many flagrant outpoints in the Church of Scientology at the moment that no-one could possibly miss them all. Back up your observations with LRH references. They will be hard pressed to argue with that, or even if they argue, they can hardly KR you for showing then an LRH reference.

I reckon you can bring at least half you friends and family out with you.

Good luck.
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
Be happy.

You have no idea how many of your friends or family members feel the same way you do and are too scared to speak out.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
:thankyou: Thank you all for your input I appreciate you time and energy. :blowkiss: I feel supported here, and this support does make me stronger. You all, each of you, give wonderful advice and this is what I was looking for. Your exterior viewpoint and advice based on your experience. :grouphug: It IS difficult. I have been reading the truth about scn for over a year now on the net. I have been lurking here for months and am glad I finally started posting here. I realize that I could very well loose my family. While it is easy for me to say that I am ready for that I don’t think I am and probably never will be. But I am getting to the point where it is becoming suffocating not saying anything. I don’t want to put a big target on my head, but I do personally feel it is important for my recovery to come out and then move from there to at least support the movement against scn. My view may change but I DO have the urge to speak out publicly. I feel a sense of responsibility on my shoulders. Maybe it was because I was on staff for seven years and I feel like I need to make up the damage – is that just more of the conditioning I got from scn? I don’t know. I just know that I have a strong pull towards the movement and a very strong desire to support those active critics and protesters if nothing else. :moon: :protest:

I admire BFG. I think he is delivering a VERY damaging blow. I know there is more to come – something from Florida and now the French have scilon’s back in court. I feel like I should be doing more. I watch Magoo and Bunker and I think “I should be there helping”.

There were many factors that contributed to my departure. Just being tired of the abuse as a staff member was enough for me to leave staff. The BS ‘chaplain cycle’ my ex-husband used to try to keep me trapped in a marriage didn’t help either. I started lurking on the net, mostly ex’s stories, but I was always careful not to read the OT data that would make “make me deathly ill” or possibly KILL me! (OH MY!!) It was when Anonymous was in the media and my learning of the attacks that I became much more aggressive in my research. Somehow this group of people who had never been under the hand of the same abuses decided to rise up and take a stand. It didn’t matter to me anymore. I had a group of people who had little to no experience in scn and THEY knew it was bad. And they were DOING something about it. I tore into everything – confidential, the mysterious deaths, elron Jr.’ interviews, EVERYTHING. I am still floored by some of the stories.

Sorry for the long post. This is the only place I can talk to people who have “been there” so I babble sometimes. :typing: Thank you for the advice – being in and on staff I am aware fof some of the things that can go on with people leaving or speaking out but obviously with the way scn works I don’t know what “really” happens.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
The "First Dynamic"....

...snip...

My view may change but I DO have the urge to speak out publicly. I feel a sense of responsibility on my shoulders. Maybe it was because I was on staff for seven years and I feel like I need to make up the damage – is that just more of the conditioning I got from scn? I don’t know. I just know that I have a strong pull towards the movement and a very strong desire to support those active critics and protesters if nothing else. :moon: :protest:

...snip...

Sorry for the long post. This is the only place I can talk to people who have “been there” so I babble sometimes. :typing: Thank you for the advice – being in and on staff I am aware fof some of the things that can go on with people leaving or speaking out but obviously with the way scn works I don’t know what “really” happens.

Your views will change as the process evolves - that is a very good thing.:yes:

I would advise you to take plenty of time and attend to yourself first - without a powerful "1st dynamic" you are in no position to accomplish much original or significant.

This group will be here and add to that for sure - but concentrate on things that are attainable, no matter if relatively small. Then, the way is being paved for larger endeavors if you desire to undertake them.

Love,

EP
 
Top