Alanzo, please say it isn't so

Veda

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Thanks. Another event of 1983 was Hubbard's wife being sent to prison (January 1983), where she served a year in prison (taking the rap for her husband), after having been sentenced to five years in December 1979. L. Ron Hubbard and his faithful band of devotees (in hiding) appear not have been in the least glum over Mary Sue Hubbard's sitting in a federal prison cell.

As a comparison, here are two cult leaders who didn't run away and hide when facing possible prison time:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=486364&postcount=34
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
She pulled it in.

Mary Sue Hubbard went to prison in 1983.

However, Ron published THE WAY TO HAPPINESS in 1981 which specifically warned against doing illegal things.

If she had only followed Ron's Written Scripture, none of those bad things would have happened to her!

Instead of doing that, MSH listened to and followed Verbal Data which verbally instructed her to commit those felonies. Ron also has strict policy prohibiting the acceptance of verbal data like the orders he gave her.

When will people learn that Ron is always right?
 
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Veda

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In the chapter 'Launching the Sea Org', in the book 'Bare-Faced Messiah', Virginia Downsborough was interviewed, by author Russell Miller, about her time in Las Palmas with L. Ron Hubbard while Hubbard was recovering from his post-Rhodesia nervous breakdown:

"He talked a lot about Sara Northrup and seemed to want to make sure that I knew that he had never married her. I didn't know why it was so important to him; I'd never met Sara and couldn't care less, but he wanted to persuade me that the marriage had never taken place. When he talked about his first wife, the picture he put out was of this poor wounded fellow coming home from the war and being abandoned by his wife and family because he would be a drain on them. He said he planned every move along the way with Mary Sue to avoid being victimized again."

Hubbard "resigned in 1966," became "fabian," and painted a big red target on his wife Mary Sue's back.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Exactly. She was an SP, who spent her life trying to get next to Hubbard so she could make him look bad.

Yup, there were a lot of SPs who tried to sabotage and betray him because they worked for communists, nazis & psychs!

They almost pulled it off (preventing Ron from saving mankind) by infiltrating his own family!

Communist previous wife, criminal MSH, sp son Ron Junior, 1.1 anti-social personality Quentin who killed himself, etc. etc. etc.

Thank god Ron was able to exteriorize and escape these SP's so he coulld continue his research!
 

Feral

Rogue male
In the chapter 'Launching the Sea Org', in the book 'Bare-Faced Messiah', Virginia Downsborough was interviewed, by author Russell Miller, about her time in Las Palmas with L. Ron Hubbard while Hubbard was recovering from his post-Rhodesia nervous breakdown:

"He talked a lot about Sara Northrup and seemed to want to make sure that I knew that he had never married her. I didn't know why it was so important to him; I'd never met Sara and couldn't care less, but he wanted to persuade me that the marriage had never taken place. When he talked about his first wife, the picture he put out was of this poor wounded fellow coming home from the war and being abandoned by his wife and family because he would be a drain on them. He said he planned every move along the way with Mary Sue to avoid being victimized again."

Hubbard "resigned in 1966," became "fabian," and painted a big red target on his wife Mary Sue's back.

This bolded is very interesting to me. Hubbard clearly changed dramatically for the worse over those years, '65 to '67. Dart wrote that the article "Are you a BooHoo" was a tipping point but I'd be interested in knowing anything about a nervous breakdown in Rhodesia.

Link?
 

Veda

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This bolded is very interesting to me. Hubbard clearly changed dramatically for the worse over those years, '65 to '67. Dart wrote that the article "Are you a BooHoo" was a tipping point but I'd be interested in knowing anything about a nervous breakdown in Rhodesia.

Link?

Press "Control" and "F" and type die, for a start. http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm16.htm (Note: Miller thought that Hubbard's collapse after Rhodesia was entirely an act. I disagree. IMO, it was a genuine breakdown followed with a reputation-protecting and ego-enhancing "shore story.")

When I wrote "post-Rhodesia," I meant after Rhodesia. It didn't happen right away. The pattern repeated (including the delayed reaction) after the FBI raids of July 1977. First there was coping, then finally an emotional and physical collapse - then eventual recovery.

Hubbard's behavior changed somewhat, but the motivations, as revealed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter and his 1946 'Affirmations', his many 1950s letters to the FBI, and other things, were essentially the same. So, I don't believe that the change in his behavior was that dramatic.

Scientologists usually saw these collapses (to the extent that they knew about them) as Hubbard having contacted some super-engram or huge deposit of "charge," which he then heroically confronted, and "mapped," and made part of the "Bridge to Total Freedom."

Hubbard, sometimes on a whim, would decide something, and Scientologists would immediately align their thinking in accordance with that (whatever it was). Hubbard was the same person doing, essentially, what he was doing all along. However, it would seem like a drastic change to Scientologists who were on tippy toes awaiting any word from "Source" regarding life, the universe and everything, and their next "agonized endless trillions of years," etc. And, of course, those in Hubbard's vicinity were especially sensitive to Hubbard's moods: happy was good and then Scientologist would be happy too, angry was bad and Scientologists, then, would be unhappy too, or frightened and worried.

In no particular order, here are some links to old posts that might provide some additional info. Hope it helps. :)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=73071&postcount=5

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=436606&postcount=114

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=39523&postcount=275
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This bolded is very interesting to me. Hubbard clearly changed dramatically for the worse over those years, '65 to '67. Dart wrote that the article "Are you a BooHoo" was a tipping point but I'd be interested in knowing anything about a nervous breakdown in Rhodesia.

Link?


Interesting to consider WHICH was worse?

A lying, smiling (1.1) con man who wrote DMSMH and the other similar hoax books on Clear/OT in the early 50's; or---

An angry, vengeful (1.5) con man who wrote Fair Game and the other similar hoax tech on Clear/OT in the 60's and 70's.

According to Hubbard's own tech, he was coming uptone.

Scientology works?
 

Doom

Lurking.
Interesting to consider WHICH was worse?

A lying, smiling (1.1) con man who wrote DMSMH and the other similar hoax books on Clear/OT in the early 50's; or---

An angry, vengeful (1.5) con man who wrote Fair Game and the other similar hoax tech on Clear/OT in the 60's and 70's.

According to Hubbard's own tech, he was coming uptone.

Scientology works?

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: that is of course if the Tone scale is correct,
but if it was written by the 1.1 or the 1.5 either way you couldn't trust a word he wrote.
Paradox if I ever saw one, or maybe just a "Catch 22".
 
Heh!

I know why this database crash happened!

It was Vinaire using a very bad, but superbly fitting word! - The post has been lost!

Vin called 'thereconing' a deuchebag!

And coming from Vin.. Holy moley! - It made the grounds and ceilings in adjacent spiritual realms wobble and was the cause of microquakes deep in the crust of the Earth ! - I bet that the reverberations corrupted the database!

Ouf.. I hope that my referring to it won't corrupt the database all over again?

:nervous:


More like instant karma for "the wreck"! :yes:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: that is of course if the Tone scale is correct,
but if it was written by the 1.1 or the 1.5 either way you couldn't trust a word he wrote.Paradox if I ever saw one, or maybe just a "Catch 22"
.

lol!

Scn Koan: If a bank account balance falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound decision to keep paying for the bridge?
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

As always, thanks Veda. What ever happens, I sincerely hope the ESMB archives are preserved somewhere, somehow.

While rummaging around on the links, not quite sure of the path I followed, I ended up here: http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/index_scientology.html . You old hands have probably already seen this but its new to me and, wow, what a wealth of information. I am only just beginning to explore. A lot of the stuff is familiar and I've seen bits and pieces here and there but to have it all in the same place, with references, and an easy to navigate format - what a great site!!
 

Veda

Sponsor
As always, thanks Veda. What ever happens, I sincerely hope the ESMB archives are preserved somewhere, somehow.

While rummaging around on the links, not quite sure of the path I followed, I ended up here: http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/index_scientology.html . You old hands have probably already seen this but its new to me and, wow, what a wealth of information. I am only just beginning to explore. A lot of the stuff is familiar and I've seen bits and pieces here and there but to have it all in the same place, with references, and an easy to navigate format - what a great site!!

You must have wandered off the linked post and onto a thread. If I recall correctly, the person (whose web site is linked above) used to post here before being banned. I most definitely don't recommend him an information/analysis source. :) See link below:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=60896&postcount=10
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
You must have wandered off the linked post and onto a thread. If I recall correctly, the person (whose web site is linked above) used to post here before being banned. I most definitely don't recommend him an information/analysis source. :) See link below:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=60896&postcount=10

Ahhh . . bugger. Never mind. Fortunately I had only bookmarked a couple of pieces for follow up and hadn't realised the data bias. Thanks for the tip off, though, much appreciated.
 
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