Aleister Crowley a Scientologist?

[Aliceinwonderland]

I am an inactive Freemason; Master Mason, Scottish Rite 32nd degree, (although I know the 33rd degree doctrine) York Rite Knight Templar, and Shriner, and my wife was an Eastern Star officer.

The men that I met involved with masonry were usually not unusual. They were everything from construction workers, police, to wealthy business owners and Judges.

I suspect most of them got involved with the idea it would lead to social and business advancement. They are not privy to any real occult secrets, as the ceremonial degrees are very heavily veiled.

I became involved with more esoteric orders that where not under the direct auspices of international freemasonry, but had very shadowy connections to whatever is behind them all. (check out lvx.org ).

I learned from higher grade members in this Order that freemasonry originally was sort of a seeding ground/sieve for more secret organizations. It may claim ancient roots, but it's current form actually was founded in the early 17th century shortly after the appearance in Europe of the "Confessio Fraternitatis R.C. ad Eruditos Europae" (Confession of the Rosicrucian Fraternity) and the "Fama Fraternitatis" (Fame of the Fraternity) of the same.

These can be read in Paul Cases "The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order" Apparently they began appearing in intellectual circles, first in Germany around 1610, with printed versions showing up a few years later.

I was told that because of the invention of the printing press, it was decided that certain secret orders that had been around for quite some time and maintained at the same level of membership should be expanded. Freemasonry is sort of introductory secret society, and men who showed aptitude for occult ceremonial and doctrine were singled out and confidentially invited to higher, more secret orders.

Over time, it became lost to even the highest level leadership in Masonry that this was it's original purpose, but still sometimes functions in this capacity, although rarely.

Today, Masonry has been decreasing in membership for decades, and is sort of a social club for mostly elderly members who do laudable charitable works, and almost universally have no idea what the rituals, dogmas, symbols, regalia, degrees, etc mean, except for vague references in said degrees. They do understand the simple moral and ethical lessons imparted at times in the degrees, and benefit to the degree that they follow these.

At the top of this, at the 33rd degree, you use to be introduced to the "Luciferian doctrine". I've heard that the modern degree is less forthcoming, but I'm not sure how. The original, that you can read about in Albert Pikes "Morals and Dogma" basically says that Lucifer is the real God, and Jehovah is the real baddie. This cat is out of the bag, and is the main cause for criticism in modern times for obvious reasons.

Only a small percent of Scottish Rite Masons become 33 degree "Grand Inspector Generals". This seems to be only awarded after considerable time and money is given to the organization and it's charitable works. The rest of the lower grades are pretty much done by any member if he stays in a while, at least in American Scottish Rite.

I wanna say thank you for this info. For the last year or so, for some reason that I'm really not sure why, I've been off and on reading different things on the net regarding Freemason and Illuminati. Almost, everything you've said above I've read somewhere or other. I've even seen a "triangle" type scale showing the levels one goes through in order to get to the "top" elite, so to speak.

When I read that Alester Crowley and Jack Parsons had both been associated with Freemasons many things seemed to come together in regards to where some of LRH's basics came in. Also, it made sense as to why LRH knew who the financial strings were being pulled by and the start of the introduction of the "One World Order".

I had a realization a few months ago, that if a handful of people wanted to have power over at least most of the globe, that there would have to be some sort of a system first. So, in my opinion, one of the systems is "New Thought" concepts which became popular in the mid 1800's and early 1900's.

The idea that we are all one and always connected to God, etc., is something that Science of Mind teaches. Ernest Holmes more or less got a lot of information from Masons - one of which was Thomas Troward, who actually was rather advanced for that time period, in my opinion.

I had fun just typing the word Freemason next to several authors of New Thought from the time period I mentioned above. Many of the male authors were either Freemasons or closely associated. The female authors seemed to be going along for the ride, so to speak and perhaps there were a couple in the "Grand Orient de France" which was a female lodge started in 1774 and I believe still exists today.

You say that membership is dwindling? I don't know why, but that seems rather strange to me. Do you have a comparison as to when it was doing well?

L

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It's been said that the Masons are an offshoot/decedent organization of the Knights Templar in the book I mentioned earlier.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

It's been said that the Masons are an offshoot/decedent organization of the Knights Templar in the book I mentioned earlier.

This might give some insight to it:

http://www.templarhistory.com/today.html

 

[Björkist]

I knew several self-proclaimed, and low-level, Freemasons in the military and most were dirtbags. A couple were all right.

Two high ranking Freemasons that I knew were really great people. They were also high ranking in the Army. The subject of Scientology (I was reading a book while waiting around) opened up quite an interesting conversation between myself and one of these Freemasons.

One thing, however, that turns me off is the racist and sexist nature seemingly built into Freemasonry.

"If you don't have a penis or if you have black/brown skin you can't partake of these profound truths."

So much for a brotherhood of all men, eh?

-----------

And if the ol' AC was a Scientologist he probably needed a retread on his purif and then right back to auditing OTVII.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I knew several self-proclaimed, and low-level, Freemasons in the military and most were dirtbags. A couple were all right.

Two high ranking Freemasons that I knew were really great people. They were also high ranking in the Army. The subject of Scientology (I was reading a book while waiting around) opened up quite an interesting conversation between myself and one of these Freemasons.

One thing, however, that turns me off is the racist and sexist nature seemingly built into Freemasonry.

"If you don't have a penis or if you have black/brown skin you can't partake of these profound truths."

So much for a brotherhood of all men, eh?

-----------

And if the ol' AC was a Scientologist he probably needed a retread on his purif and then right back to auditing OTVII.

Brotherhood of all "white" men They just left out the "white".

Of course the "men" don't acknowledge the "women", but actually there "are" Freemason based women's organizations. I believe its mostly in Europe however, but I'm not sure.

So far, I've met two high ranking Freemasons. One of which is related to my younger daughter and I didn't even know he was a Freemason until a few years ago. But I don't think that the high ranking Masons for the most part, brag about their status, unless speaking to another Mason or a potential Mason.

But, I still think its interesting to find out that all that talk regarding "black magic" and such, stems from rituals done in the Freemason and Scottish Rite groups.

L

 

[uniquemand]

There are many Masonic Lodges which are all-black, too, Bjorkist. I was iin a unit in the Army that had a First Sergeant and all the NCOs who were black and in a Masonic Lodge I couldn't join, because I'm whitey.

Cuts both ways. That's not about the spirituality, it's about a racial identity issue.

 

[Björkist]

There are many Masonic Lodges which are all-black, too, Bjorkist. I was iin a unit in the Army that had a First Sergeant and all the NCOs who were black and in a Masonic Lodge I couldn't join, because I'm whitey.

Cuts both ways. That's not about the spirituality, it's about a racial identity issue.

Oh yes, I should have specified. The two high ranking Masons I knew were black and my First Sergeants at different times. I was stationed at Fort Stewart, Georgia.

The way it was explained to me was that, originally, black people couldn't get involved in Freemasonry, so a lodge was created for blacks with watered down/altered procedures to appease them. Same with Eastern Stars for women.

Aside from having read various Masonic texts I haven't directly been involved in Freemasonry (the white, black or female versions) so I digress.

 

[Rmack]

yep, old fashioned Masonry is both sexist and racist.

However, I would recognize a Prince Hall Mason as a Brother any day.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

yep, old fashioned Masonry is both sexist and racist.

However, I would recognize a Prince Hall Mason as a Brother any day.

Are Prince Hall Masons lenient with accepting white people into their Lodge?

L

 

[Rmack]

Are Prince Hall Masons lenient with accepting white people into their Lodge?

L

Hell, I don't know, probably not.

I do know that racism is ignorant. It's ignorant in a physical universe way because skin color is a tiny fraction of over all genetic information, and it's ignorant spiritually, because we're all one in the Spirit.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Hell, I don't know, probably not.

I do know that racism is ignorant. It's ignorant in a physical universe way because skin color is a tiny fraction of over all genetic information, and it's ignorant spiritually, because we're all one in the Spirit.

To be honest, I don't have any idea what the difference is as far as the basic belief system goes from Lodge to Lodge, whether it be a specific gender or race. Are rituals similar, are they all mandatory that a person believe that there is a supreme being or a god? Is the Scottish or York rite shared in the female Lodges?

If all beliefs are similar within all Lodges, then those who do not acknowledge a Freemason because they are female or black or Jewish, etc., as far as I'm concerned lives in ancient times indeed.

L

 

[Rmack]

To be honest, I don't have any idea what the difference is as far as the basic belief system goes from Lodge to Lodge, whether it be a specific gender or race. Are rituals similar, are they all mandatory that a person believe that there is a supreme being or a god? Is the Scottish or York rite shared in the female Lodges?

If all beliefs are similar within all Lodges, then those who do not acknowledge a Freemason because they are female or black or Jewish, etc., as far as I'm concerned lives in ancient times indeed.

L

As far as I know a belief in God is mandatory for basic Masonic membership, but they are not at all specific as to your definition of God.

Although you take your oaths on Bibles in the Blue lodge and both Scottish and York Rites, they gave us a choice in the Shriners! You also could choose the Koran, or the Baghavad Gita if you liked, though I never saw anyone that did. I thought this was weird, knowing the history of Masonry, but no one asked me.

I know nothing of female Masonry, but there are several organizations that are in many ways much more advanced than Freemasonry that allow all races and genders that draw on the same traditions. Check out;

www.lvx.org

I'm telling you from personal experience; Freemasonry is kindergarten intro secret society, all the way up to the higher grades. Some of the degrees are wonderful theatric productions that only a handful of people get to see that do teach great lessons, but there is much more esoteric stuff out there.

It's rumored that Mozart was assassinated by what I would suspect were jealous lodge members for producing "The Magic Flute" which has many aspects of Masonic ritual in it. There are several versions on video, and I would recommend any of them.

Still, many of the parts of the degrees are kind of in code, and unless you are expert in the Qabalah, it is going to be gibberish to you.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

As far as I know a belief in God is mandatory for basic Masonic membership, but they are not at all specific as to your definition of God.

Although you take your oaths on Bibles in the Blue lodge and both Scottish and York Rites, they gave us a choice in the Shriners! You also could choose the Koran, or the Baghavad Gita if you liked, though I never saw anyone that did. I thought this was weird, knowing the history of Masonry, but no one asked me.

I know nothing of female Masonry, but there are several organizations that are in many ways much more advanced than Freemasonry that allow all races and genders that draw on the same traditions. Check out;

www.lvx.org

I'm telling you from personal experience; Freemasonry is kindergarten intro secret society, all the way up to the higher grades. Some of the degrees are wonderful theatric productions that only a handful of people get to see that do teach great lessons, but there is much more esoteric stuff out there.

It's rumored that Mozart was assassinated by what I would suspect were jealous lodge members for producing "The Magic Flute" which has many aspects of Masonic ritual in it. There are several versions on video, and I would recommend any of them.

Still, many of the parts of the degrees are kind of in code, and unless you are expert in the Qabalah, it is going to be gibberish to you.

My own definition of God, in the past, has been "man's attempt at explaining what he can't explain". One of my favorite things to say is that "Man made God in his own image". But somehow with most people, I don't think that would go over too well.

It looks as if much of the history of Freemasonry is a combination of very old "middle eastern", combined with some pagan and then a bit of Christian. And, like a rolling stone gathering moss, it seems to pick up on a few different changes here and there to keep up with the "times".

I have seen a few charts online depicting Freemasons as not as high up on the "pyramid" chain as some of the other fraternities are.

As far as women go, I've found one that was started in the 1700's in answer to the men's Lodges. Its more European than American right now.

The Eastern Star, you have to have a relative of some kind who belongs to the Masons to get in.

However, back on what the original topic was about concerning Crowley. Of course Crowley couldn't have been a Scn because that was way before Scn even existed. But its been said that LRH took some of his ideas and theories from the Freemason and OTO (which was sort of a squirrel group off of Freemason) which actually a lot of "New Thought" was formed around. Many New Thought authors were Freemasons back in the mid 1800's and on. By the time LRH was around 20 years old, New Thought was pretty popular in small groups. But interestingly enough, I haven't seen anything in writing that Hubbard has given any credit whatsoever to Mason teachings. I don't think I've ever seen anything in writing from LRH about Masons. Has anyone else?

L

 

[Rmack]

As far as women go, I've found one that was started in the 1700's in answer to the men's Lodges. Its more European than American right now.

The Eastern Star, you have to have a relative of some kind who belongs to the Masons to get in.

L

My wife was an Eastern Star, but I only wore the necklace. And yep, she had to have a Mason hubby to get in.

However, back on what the original topic was about concerning Crowley. Of course Crowley couldn't have been a Scn because that was way before Scn even existed. But its been said that LRH took some of his ideas and theories from the Freemason and OTO (which was sort of a squirrel group off of Freemason) which actually a lot of "New Thought" was formed around. Many New Thought authors were Freemasons back in the mid 1800's and on. By the time LRH was around 20 years old, New Thought was pretty popular in small groups. But interestingly enough, I haven't seen anything in writing that Hubbard has given any credit whatsoever to Mason teachings. I don't think I've ever seen anything in writing from LRH about Masons. Has anyone else?

L

Hubbard referred to Crowley, who probably was some sort of Mason, and the Golden Dawn, which is very Masonically oriented. Don't remember any references to Freemasonry directly, though.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

My wife was an Eastern Star, but I only wore the necklace. And yep, she had to have a Mason hubby to get in.



Hubbard referred to Crowley, who probably was some sort of Mason, and the Golden Dawn, which is very Masonically oriented. Don't remember any references to Freemasonry directly, though.

Crowley was not a "conventional" Mason, meaning he had not been acknowledged by the "big dudes" in England. Short story about him:

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/AleisterCrowley.html

However, whether conventional or not, apparently, he was able to get the materials on Scottish Rites and so, whether he is actually acknowledged or not from the "Grand" Lodge, makes no difference to me, if he actually had much of the knowledge.

This was all before Hubbard. Not only that, but he wasn't even associated with Hubbard that much when he did meet him. Hubbard was more with Jack Parsons I believe.

What amazes me is just how much the American public and even other public knows so little about Freemasons and the ladder to the "elite" fraternities and organizations that actually "built" this country. Absolutely, is this not mentioned in history books - at least not when I was a child.

L

 

[Zinjifar]

Not only that, but he wasn't even associated with Hubbard that much when he did meet him. Hubbard was more with Jack Parsons I believe.

Crowley *never* met Ron. Ron *never* met Crowley.

Zinj

 

[Carnaubawax]

Crowley *never* met Ron. Ron *never* met Crowley.

Zinj

And all de credibility jus wen poof!

 

[uniquemand]

Obviously, you guys don't understand the Hubbard was in psychic contact with Crowley. Nevermind that I don't have evidence for this. After all, LRH himself called Crowley his very good friend. Ipso facto, he must have been his psychic friend, since they never physically met.

PROOF that Ron was OT!

 

[Björkist]

Crowley *never* met Ron. Ron *never* met Crowley.

Zinj

It's nice to have someone on ESMB who was there for every single moment of both Hubbard's and Crowley's life who can impart "nuggets" like this.

 

[uniquemand]

You didn't know that Zinj's opinion is fact?

Heck, I report my opinion so assertively that people often think I think I know everything, or have unique access to facts, or something, so I can understand. I take everything everyone says with a grain of salt (and a few grains of pepper... mmm... pepper).