I am neither for scientology not against it. Never been to scientology church. I am told by a nutritionist to each some healthy blend of oils for better health. one of my friend who was with scientology recommended all blend oil from Scientology church but I don't know it's composition. so, that is what I am researching out. nothing too scientific.
All Blend Oil
- Thread starter Sach_nyc
- Start date
I find scientology both exciting and curious and I find as much success stories as stories of people as people who hate Scientology. but we must all agree that there is freedom of religion and we should respect that...so that's why I agree Scientology has it's right to practice it's religionion.
They just have to do things little bit better and that's all. No need for super hate for scientology people. My friend who have been to scientology church and did some run downs there always says good things about it...so far he is a happy guy
They just have to do things little bit better and that's all. No need for super hate for scientology people. My friend who have been to scientology church and did some run downs there always says good things about it...so far he is a happy guy
Bill
Gold Meritorious Patron
When discussing "Scientology" it is very important to realize there are, basically, three things that often get conflated. They are very different.
- First, there are Scientologists. In my experience, most Scientologists are good people who got roped into Scientology because it promised tools to help others. Most Scientologists have left the church when they discovered the church does a lot more harm than any good.
- Second, there is the Church of Scientology. It is evil. It is run by an evil sociopath. The evil is baked into the church policies and practices and cannot be reformed. It hurts people and it will not stop.
- Third, there is the "tech" of Scientology. In and of itself, it doesn't do much of anything. The problem comes from Hubbard's grandiose claims of results. In reality, the best results that can be verified are that Scientology "tech" can, sometimes make a person feel better temporarily. As such, it really isn't either particularly useful or harmful. I have no problem with someone practicing Scientology "tech" as long as they make no claims of results beyond maybe, temporarily making a person feel better. Claims of "Scientology can handle that", "Release", "Clear" and "OT" move the practice into fraud and evil.
i understand your viewpoint. what about for people for whom scientology is working? There are many of them who love it and will die for it. how do you explain that? isn't that freedom of religion. I am all for freedom of religion
Bill
Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow! Would you do me a favor and go back and read what I actually wrote? I didn't say anything about preventing a person from practicing their religion.
well, you said church is an evil. This is where I see problem. There are people who had huge success in Scientology so it isn't evil for all. how do you justify that?
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Oh boy. Sure people have had wins doing it, however the organization itself is predatory. I think perhaps you are missing the purpose of this site - it is in part to expose to the light of day the noxious practices of the church. Most here have found it's technology to be bogus, in that is is basically a form of hypnotism with few permanent gains, and virtually no delivery of it's stated gains.
Foof.
A good example is the concept of clear - back in the 50's it promised a person freedom from all illness, higher IQ, and many other claims that as time progressed became obvious weren't happening as Hubbard stated. So, he kept redefining the state of clear until it devolved into this: a clear is a person who is cause over mental matter, space, energy and time in regards to the first dynamic ( self in other words). So if you can knowingly think a thought - then, per that definition you are clear.
The problem with Scientology is in one of it's most basic policy letters- Keeping Scientology Working - " you can only be upbraided for lack of results" If Scientology delivered a third of what it promises - it would be packed with people. But it's orgs are empty - when I was on the Briefing course in the 80's ASHO had a day and an evening org and 200 students on the evening BC. Now the two have orgs have collapsed into one org, and they no longer even offer the Briefing Course. That is a testimony in the actual world of how unworkable it actually is - that course shrank 100% to zero. That was THE headlining course that ASHO delivered and what it was famous for.
I was on the bc back then, up till a few years ago I was auditing on OT 7 and I know of what I am saying - - it simply does not deliver what it promises.
Mimsey
Foof.
A good example is the concept of clear - back in the 50's it promised a person freedom from all illness, higher IQ, and many other claims that as time progressed became obvious weren't happening as Hubbard stated. So, he kept redefining the state of clear until it devolved into this: a clear is a person who is cause over mental matter, space, energy and time in regards to the first dynamic ( self in other words). So if you can knowingly think a thought - then, per that definition you are clear.
The problem with Scientology is in one of it's most basic policy letters- Keeping Scientology Working - " you can only be upbraided for lack of results" If Scientology delivered a third of what it promises - it would be packed with people. But it's orgs are empty - when I was on the Briefing course in the 80's ASHO had a day and an evening org and 200 students on the evening BC. Now the two have orgs have collapsed into one org, and they no longer even offer the Briefing Course. That is a testimony in the actual world of how unworkable it actually is - that course shrank 100% to zero. That was THE headlining course that ASHO delivered and what it was famous for.
I was on the bc back then, up till a few years ago I was auditing on OT 7 and I know of what I am saying - - it simply does not deliver what it promises.
Mimsey
Last edited:
Bill
Gold Meritorious Patron
First, no, there are no people who have had "huge success in Scientology". There is no evidence of that anywhere. I've asked and asked and asked. Truly the best anyone has come up with is "temporarily felt great". There are no "Releases", no "Clears" and no "OTs" so, no, there are no "huge" successes. The "church" says there are, but that's part of the fraud.
But that is beside the point. The Church of Scientology IS evil. That's just a well-documented fact. I hope that governments around the world recognize this and do something - such as revoke various tax-exempt statuses or bring criminal prosecution where people have been defrauded or otherwise harmed. I mean, seriously, do you think that any religion should be allowed to harm others and get away with it? With the Church of Scientology, the abuse is built into the policy by Hubbard -- they can't reform.
However, I would oppose the "banning" of the practice of Scientology. If someone wants to practice Scientology, fine -- as long as they do so without defrauding or harming others, as I've said.
A number of abusive cults have been prosecuted and disbanded due to illegal activities. This is NOT a freedom of religion principle -- this is stopping criminals. This is all I expect with the Church of Scientology.
RogerB
Crusader
OK, Sach, since your interest is actually to find the right and best oils/lipids for your bodily health, then we can work on getting your the best answer . . .
Use the search facility at the top right and plug in any of these search terms: EPA, or GLA, or Barry Sears . . .
Use my name, RogerB as the posting member.
I have posted a number of posts including a magazine article by me on this subject.
There is a whole science behind/involved in the matter of lipids and bodily health. I go into it in-depth, but in layman's terms in my various posts.
Rog
Use the search facility at the top right and plug in any of these search terms: EPA, or GLA, or Barry Sears . . .
Use my name, RogerB as the posting member.
I have posted a number of posts including a magazine article by me on this subject.
There is a whole science behind/involved in the matter of lipids and bodily health. I go into it in-depth, but in layman's terms in my various posts.
Rog
Terril park
Sponsor
Speaking for myself many wins were permanent
and life affirming. I know very many people who have had similar results. That CO$ often overstates claims of good
results I have no issue with.
To claim the good results of myself and others are false
is made from a position of willful ignorance. Deciding beforehand that such results are not possible is as blinkered a viewpoint as saying a critic of Scn is an SP.
Your statement that claiming good and permanent results
is fraud and evil tarnishes yourself not others.
I do not think or state that someones benefits from mainstream therapy is a delusion on their part. I have
family members who are psychologists one of which has
a doctorate in the subject, worked for the NHS as a psychologist and has now established her own thriving practice.
Bill
Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, I have to admit that I may have been a tad extreme. There may have been some "results" from Scientology that have been longer-lasting-ish. I have no evidence one way or the other. I am aware that some people believe the Scientology helped them "feel better". ish.
However, the truth is that such "results" are indistinguishable from "gains" from self-reflection, meditation, learning, growing and just living. There is no "Release", "Clear" or "OT" which would be noticeable in the world. The alleged "results" are only "I feel better", "I'm more aware" (whatever that means) and the like. No homo novis, no superior being, no supermen.
So, if the "results" from all of Scientology are indistinguishable from "results" from a good, contemplative walk (and I've had those), then can we give any weight to Scientology's claims of being a unique path to something special? I don't think so.
The fraud of Scientology is "Release", "Clear", "OT", homo novis and all the rest of Hubbard's (and True Believers) claims. I stand by that. I also stand by my statement that Scientology does nothing unique or special. Throw it all out and we would lose nothing (not that I necessarily support throwing it out).
You are a True Believer. That's fine. You believe you "got gains". Also fine. But I know hundreds of ex-Scientologists who say they did not get anything significant -- and often were greatly harmed. The majority have voted with their feet and don't do any Scientology any more. That pretty much says everything one needs to know about any "value" from Scientology.
Last edited:
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
So, Sach, you have to ask yourself - if Scientology is so damn great, why are the orgs empty? Which leads to the next question: Why do they keep building new ideal orgs if no one frequents them?
If you look at how ideal orgs are built - Scientology isn't paying for them - well wishing zealous Scientologists are - and then donating them to Scientology - gratis. Again, why? Is it a crafty ploy to create a vast real estate portfolio? Is it a dog and pony show to keep people donating money to the IAS which uses it as they wish, with NO transparency or accountability, and the funds are non-refundable? Nah. That would be unethical.
So, no way would Scientology's CEO, head of the most ethical organization on earth, built by Mankinds best friend, L Ron Hubbard, misuse funds, to inure himself and his buddy Tom Cruise would he?
Mimsey
The Inurement Prohibition & Non-Profit Organizations
Non-profit organizations are subject to what is known as the nondistribution constraint. Simply stated, this means that non-profit organizations cannot distribute profits to those who control it. The nondistribution constraint is the fundamental distinction between non-profit organizations from for-profit organizations.
In the Internal Revenue Code, the nondistribution constraint is embodied in the prohibition against inurement. “Inurement” is an arcane term for “benefit.” The inurement prohibition forbids the use of the income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly or indirectly unduly benefit an individual or other person that has a close relationship with the organization or is able to exercise significant control over the organization.
If you look at how ideal orgs are built - Scientology isn't paying for them - well wishing zealous Scientologists are - and then donating them to Scientology - gratis. Again, why? Is it a crafty ploy to create a vast real estate portfolio? Is it a dog and pony show to keep people donating money to the IAS which uses it as they wish, with NO transparency or accountability, and the funds are non-refundable? Nah. That would be unethical.
So, no way would Scientology's CEO, head of the most ethical organization on earth, built by Mankinds best friend, L Ron Hubbard, misuse funds, to inure himself and his buddy Tom Cruise would he?
Mimsey
The Inurement Prohibition & Non-Profit Organizations
Non-profit organizations are subject to what is known as the nondistribution constraint. Simply stated, this means that non-profit organizations cannot distribute profits to those who control it. The nondistribution constraint is the fundamental distinction between non-profit organizations from for-profit organizations.
In the Internal Revenue Code, the nondistribution constraint is embodied in the prohibition against inurement. “Inurement” is an arcane term for “benefit.” The inurement prohibition forbids the use of the income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly or indirectly unduly benefit an individual or other person that has a close relationship with the organization or is able to exercise significant control over the organization.
Last edited:
Gib
Crusader
scientology ain't a religion, you silly fool. What makes you think it's a religion?
Success stories make no religion, the IRS makes no stand on religion just non-profit, you silly fool.
Do you really believe just because one man said it's a religion, it's a religion? And then others said it was a religion?
Welcome to the Crowd known as make believe, or mocked up "clear" and the "OT".
Don't forget, the guy that said scientology is a religion is dead, and in the end he said he failed, LOL, and he ain't coming back.
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
No - it, the study of Scientology, the books, tapes, etc is a religion for the simple reason it espouses / posits / believes in the existence of a spiritual being, say nothing of the 8th dynamic
The church of Scientology itself, is however, a largely criminal business organization hiding behind the religious protection afforded by the first amendment of the US constitution. I say largely because, other than for those that pay for auditing & training and show up to get it, it no longer is interested in clearing the planet, it is only interested in amassing wealth for a single individual, COB himself.
Come on - get your facts straight - he's not a silly fool. You have heard this argument a thousand times - perhaps he hasn't. Give him a break.
Mimsey
The church of Scientology itself, is however, a largely criminal business organization hiding behind the religious protection afforded by the first amendment of the US constitution. I say largely because, other than for those that pay for auditing & training and show up to get it, it no longer is interested in clearing the planet, it is only interested in amassing wealth for a single individual, COB himself.
Come on - get your facts straight - he's not a silly fool. You have heard this argument a thousand times - perhaps he hasn't. Give him a break.
Mimsey
Last edited:
ThetanExterior
Gold Meritorious Patron
I was taken to see some Sea Org person who made it very clear that I was an "ethics particle" and I was going to be in big trouble if I didn't write a success story.
The basic spiel was that Hubbard was infallible therefore the Purif works. They had gone over my folders and seen that my Purif was done standardly therefore I must have got gains from it so if I didn't write a success story I would be "handled". I don't recall if it was explained what "handled" meant but I think I already knew it would involve such things as False Data Stripping and sec-checking and that I would have to pay for it.
I just gave in and wrote a success story saying "I feel cleaner" or something like that and they let me go home.
ThetanExterior
Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology is a cult operating as a business and masquerading as a religion. No, it doesn't have a right to do the things it does. You need to find out more about scientology before making statements like that on a message board full of ex-scientologists.
The reason your friend says good things about it is because scientologists are not allowed to be criticial of scientology. It is absolutely forbidden to say bad things about it and your friend knows that.
Scientology is a totalitarian cult where freedom of thought is not allowed. Its main purpose is to extract money from its members. That is not what most people would call "religion".
thank you for all responses. I still find it tough to believe so many bad stuff about Scientology. But if you see there is bad stuff about any large corporation..lets just say bank of america or wells fargo. you will find terrible reviews about them but people still do business with them and there are people who love them.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Bank of America and Wells Fargo provide a service to customers. Sometimes the service is less than optimum and people complain. Scientology pretends to offer a service but is in fact wholly incapable of delivering what it promises at any time. That is essentially fraud. People who 'love' scientology either have a vested interest in its continuing survival or are deluding themselves about its effectiveness.
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
Sach - I wish after spending 45 years in scientology, becoming a class 6 auditor and putting myself and wife onto OT 7 and spending , what? $300K I got my money's worth. Truthfully, I can't.
Mimsey
Mimsey
Bill
Gold Meritorious Patron
To understand the difference between a bank, for instance, and a cult like Scientology, you will need to read some books or articles on the cult mindset and how cults control how members think. You would learn why these things are different.
Similar threads
