Am I evil for even thinking this?

Species8472

Patron with Honors
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
You and your brother are not evil Species, you are just looking out for the best interest of your sister. You are correct that the cult will grab up every penny she gets.

Hopefully your parents will live long enough to spend every penny they have earned, and hopefully your sister will be out of the cult before they pass.

But, just in case, maybe the executor of your parents estate can set up some sort of trust fund for your cult deluded sister where she only gets a stipend every year and can't borrow against it without permission. You know the cult registrars will bend every rule in the book to get their grubby fingers on your dad's money. It will be hard , but try to find a way to protect your sister.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here's my suggestion. Put her share in a trust. Then have someone manage said trust and she's only allowed $500 or $1000 per month. Or whatever amount you all feel will be safe.

My hubby and I have done that with our estate (not that's it's huge) - but my daughter will only get $1000 a month until she reaches a certain age (I think it's 30). We figure if we were to die at the same time, she wouldn't be old enough or mature enough at her current age to handle roughly $500K in cash. So, we have trustees that will write her a check for $1000 a month until she's 30. At this point, that's a bit more than six years away and hubby and I don't plan on going in the next six years. LOL!!!

And no you're not evil for protecting the money from the CofS.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
No, you are not evil for looking out for the best interest of your sister. God your family sounds very similar to mine (but I am the only one out).

I like Kathy's advice (above). But as someone who worked closely with the high pressure regges at LA Day (and yes, even the evil financial genius of Joe Bueno) - scientology WILL try to get that money any way that they can. If it's illegal, they will look for any available legal route - TRUST me. Or any illegal route that will not threaten the “church”.
 

skollie

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, you are not evil, you're doing the right thing by not wanting the money go to the CoS. Kathy's advise is sound but they could push her into getting loans against the money she has in the trust fund. Have her portion of the money left to you or your brother for safekeeping, so that when she eventually gets out, she'll have something to start her life with.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:

You aren't evil.

I think there're codicils and bequest terms and such where it can be specified what they can and can't use the money for. An estate attorney can tell you.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:


These are not evil thoughts or designs.

You might ask yourself, assuming your sister's situation, "What would I want if and when the cult gave me the old heave ho?" And you know that day will come, sooner or later.

I would want time and space to get my mind right, money enough to eat and procure shelter. I would want and most appreciate a safe space. Who knows how long it will take to get one's mind right enough to participate in "wog" society?

Coming off staff, my credit is probably shot to hell, or I had none in the first place. I would want some help in business least I should become someone else's labor slave. That, too, will require financing whether it's buying a paint brush and ladder to start being self-employed, or finance for college, tech school, or trade schooling.

A little bit of money can buy a lot of freedom when you are starting out with none and few or no resources. So the answer, as others have already given, is "trust fund."

In the meantime, we can only hope that things get just bad enough in scioland that people continue to wake up and walk away.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:

You set up a Trust. This is what older siblings do for their younger sibling survivors who are hopeless alcoholics. It is done so that they can be financially supported in some way without them using the money to drink themselves to death in short order. A scilon could be regarded as a hopeless alcoholic.
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will

Do you feel bad for trying to keep your sister from wasting her money? Or do you feel bad for plotting & semi-secretly going around behind your sister's back?

If you feel bad about the secrecy, why not just be open with your sister? Have a family meeting with everybody and just let everyone say their concerns, with your sister having full opportunity to say her point of view. If you do this, then your sister will get a little more truth, in many ways. And she won't feel so betrayed. She will feel she was at least important enough to be consulted. :gathering:

Anyways, it's not your decision. It's not your money. It's your parents' money to do with as they wish. :yes: Minus taxes. :eyeroll:
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Do you feel bad for trying to keep your sister from wasting her money? Or do you feel bad for plotting & semi-secretly going around behind your sister's back?

If you feel bad about the secrecy, why not just be open with your sister? Have a family meeting with everybody and just let everyone say their concerns, with your sister having full opportunity to say her point of view. If you do this, then your sister will get a little more truth, in many ways. And she won't feel so betrayed. She will feel she was at least important enough to be consulted. :gathering:

Anyways, it's not your decision. It's not your money. It's your parents' money to do with as they wish. :yes: Minus taxes. :eyeroll:


Good idea.

Now the question is, "Can Sis' get a day off to sit down and discuss matters?"

Or, take the scientological reg approach of total control: Have everyone sit down, then just tell her what y'all are going to do and why. End of story.
 

supafreak

Patron Meritorious
Looking out for your sister's best interests isn't evil. It shows you care. I can totally understand that you don't want Scn to get its paws on your parents' money.

I wonder if the will can stipulate that your sister can only have her share of the inheritance after she's left the cult?
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:

I think you are a loving brother who just wants everything to be right with you family and I do not envy your position. Good luck with your Problem and I hope it goes right.
 

OldTimingMan

Patron with Honors
Good idea on helping your sister. Keep in mind that the sharpest shark-like registrars may try to create a document for your sister to sign that she owes $$ for NEW Scientology services, donations or whatever.... Once she signs it they could press her to deliver.. So if limitations on the Trust stipulate, for example, you can only use it to buy a car or something else of value... the reg knows once obtained by your sister, it can be sold for cash.. these kinds of constructs are viewed as a piggy bank, and the clever shark (and your sister once in the hand of the shark) can figure out how to 'get around' the lock, in due time.

Be careful, and try to anticipate how Scientology sharks might try to tamper with it.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Nobody owes anyone an inheritance, not even their own child. If your parents are against her lifestyle, whether it is drugs, alcohol, a cult or whatever they can cut her out of the will. I would not want scientology to get any of my money, ever. The cult will just use it to hurt other families or maybe buy Dainty Davey the slap-happy asthmatic dwarf another pair of thousand dollar elevator wedgies.

I am sure the will can be written in a way that will give her share to a charity of your parents choice.

Like you say, your parents could very well live another 20 years or. You are smart to be thinking of this now, before it becomes an issue.
 

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
Plan ahead to keep the scientologists from the money.

But all we all know, "financial geniuses" do find ways to circumvent trusts and stipends.

I would advise that she be alerted to what is going to happen within the will and the estate that they leave to their children.

A group meeting is a good way to start. Ideally, your parents should simply state what they are planning on doing. The next step may be an intervention of sorts. Show her what is going on. Answer questions but try not to be too evaluative as this may backfire.

With all good intentions, she may start opening her eyes to the evil ways of the cult and certainly may leave the folds of the church (in due time of course).

I applaud the effort of your family in protecting your sister's best interests - which is not the church of scientology!
 

Species8472

Patron with Honors
Thanks for all the responses.
It looks like a specialist estates attorney is the way to go - to get some kind of trust set up. I like the comparison several people made to the alcoholic child - it fits well.

Dad hates lawyers, hates giving them a cent, but I think he can be made to understand that a modest amount spent now will prevent a much larger amount going to fund DMs scotch bill and TCs birthday parties.

This was initially my older brother's idea - and he'd already discussed it with Dad before bringing me in on the secret. She has asked Dad and my brother for money before, I think that's what gave my brother the idea of inheritance planning in the first place.

Years ago I had also done the same. I know what its like, I hadn't wanted to, it was the reg persuading me and 'drilling' me on how to ask. I'm glad my Dad and my brother saw through me then.

Whatever we decide I'll make sure we tell my sister.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd suggest a trust fund with you and your brother as joint trustees. You both know what is going on and you know your sister so this is much safer than having a lawyer or whoever administrate it. Joint trustees keeps you both accountable, and you will have the discretion to dole out larger amount for a medical emergency or whatever legitimate reason she has for needing money.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Some background. My folks are getting on (late 70s), my brother (not a Scilon) is financially secure, I am pretty much broke (because of Scn) - but now that I'm out, I'm doing better. My sister however is as financially crippled as any long term Scn staff member.

Me & my bother) discussed our parents Will - and while he says he doesn't need the money, he doesn't want our sister's share to go straight to the Scilons. My brother discussed this with Dad too - who, agrees, but I just feel bad about this - plotting to cut her from the Will, even though we know she'll be under tremendous pressure to donate anything she gets.

My brother also checked with a lawyer - and despite all those old films, you can't dictate what someone spends their money on from beyond the grave.
Maybe they'll survive well into their 90s, but

So what can you buy someone, and leave it to them in your will, which will benefit them, and they can't sell it/cash it in (and give the profits to Scn)

Something like a lifetime's medical cover - any suggestions?

Or am I just evil for even going along with this idea. :confused2:

You are far from evil for thinking along these lines. I am Trustee nominated in my Father's Will regarding my nephew, and in my own Will I have also assigned that Trusteeship.

Guessing that you're in the u.s., Medical Cover is probably a good idea. Depending on the ages of yourself, brother and sister, you and your brother could be trustees to ensure that your sister has adequate (not luxurious) rent. The Church will declare you SPs, but you are ensuring your sister's survival. In Australia we have a dieting company called Light 'n' Easy, who deliver a full week's meals (allegedly prepared by dieticians/nutritionists). Therefore you have the options to make sure your sister has a roof over her head, food and healthcare.

A small allowance for clothes and utility bills would also need to be considered. I am sure you would need a lawyer to figure this out properly, because the Co$ will fight it on the basis that you are denying your sister freedom of choice (Oh, the irony!).

When my Father died I inherited this house, and my sister got some furniture. This was fully explained in the Will because my Father had spent so much on three different houses for my sister, and she was adequately set up without need for further capital or rights to this real estate.

Provided the Will explains the reasons (citing other cases against the Church, etc.), you should be able to come up with a form of Trusteeship that covers your sister's survival without seeing funds squandered on the Church. You then have to decide if that Trusteeship is terminated upon her leaving the Church, but you would have to be alert to "pretending to leave" in order to gain access to the funds.

This is very messy, but I think your motivation is sound, and I wish you the best of luck with it.

If there are enough long-standing exes, perhaps an Anti-Co$ Trust could be established as a legitimate business to manage these affairs for the many distressed parents out there who don't want to see their children waste themselves financially and spiritually on the "church".
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
This is a tough one

Wow. Trying to take your sister's perspective...

If this would have happened to me while I was in, that is, my family trying to cut me off from money because I'm in Scientology, I would have been so pissed!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

True, your parents can do whatever they want with the money, but in a way it is your sister's right or choice (so to speak) to do with it what she wants. But to think she would just give it to scio is unthinkable. Funny, how our perceptions change, huh? :wink2:

Sounds like a trust is the only way to go. And hopefully, one day, when your alcoholic, err - scio sister, wakes up, she'll be so thankful and happy that you did this.

But I wonder, she might get really mad hearing about this but in a way she may be, deep down inside, relieved, that you are doing this. There has to be doubts amongst more and more scio's every day.

This is one of those good problems to have. Wish I had some family money to contemplate over...
 

Nurse Pinch

Patron with Honors
You are not evil.

The trust idea is good in principle, but easy to get around. Being an "ex-financial genius" myself, here is how you get the cash right away:

Say I want to get $50K of her money before 2pm thursday. I call a wealthy Scilon and brief them on the sit. I get the sisters agreement to do the cycle for $50K. I introduce the wealth Scilon to your sister and they- independently of me (even though I set it all up)- decide that the wealthy Scilon will lend the sister $50K (which she gives to the org), and she will pay back the said wealthy Scilon at say, oh I dont know, maybe, $1000 per month? for the next 5 years or so. KA CHING! I am now upstat and get libs this weekend, and your sister continues to live in poverty.

The same thing can possibly be done with a bank for financial institution if you can prove the money is coming in every month and that it is a sure thing, but you will get less money loaned that way.

Its a dirty business I am afraid, you'll have to get smarter than that if you want to help your sister. You are better off with the lifetime medical or something like that, something that cant be cashed in or sold or have the ownership transferred. If the lifetime medical could be transferred in ownership, then you have the possibility in kind, in exchange for cash, similar to the situation I outline above.

Good luck,

Pinchy.
 
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