What's new

An Active Scientologist is Doing an Q&A right now!

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/38dsgf/scientology_ask_me_anything/

According to the person who is answering all your questions:

I've taken a number of Scientology courses and have gotten a lot of value from it. I've studied Scientology (and the criticisms of it) in-depth. I'm not in the Sea Org or a staff member or anything like that - I'm a person who's gotten value from Scientology. Ask me anything about Scientology. This is my first post here.






Letttsss Go and ask everything :)
 
Last edited:

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
The questions answered so far (The Q&A is still ongoing!)




Q:
Hi, welcome holdingcorners!
Just to kick things off, I have a few to get out of the way:
How long have you been taking courses?
CofS or Indy/Freezone/etc.?
If you don't mind, where on the bridge are you?
What benefits have you experienced?
Do you have any criticisms of the Tech or Management, or is this a completely positive experience?
What criticism are you aware of, and did it give you second thought?
Are you concerned about "entheta" on this sub or elsewhere, that it might prevent you from looking at it (for example, Going Clear, the doc or book, is a thing - have you seen/read it, or plan to?)
Boxers or briefs? [Edit: Or pantaloons?]
Also, feel free to assign yourself some flair - you can do so from the sidebar on the right if you wish.
Thanks for posting!


A:
"How long have you been taking courses?"
Less than two years.
"CofS or Indy/Freezone/etc.?"
I've only taken course at Church of Scientology.
"If you don't mind, where on the bridge are you?"
All my courses are introductory in nature, I believe.
"What benefits have you experienced?"
I don't attribute these things solely to Scientology by any means. I've gotten that I'm totally responsible for my experience of life, an ability to be with others without defensiveness or need to be critical/evaluate others, again seeing and experiencing the small things in life that move me and I find beautiful, not taking things so seriously, not making myself or others wrong, and an ability to simply be and observe.
"Do you have any criticisms of the Tech or Management, or is this a completely positive experience?"
My understanding is that all of Scientology is comprised of written words of L. Ron Hubbard. I don't think that's workable in practice, especially over the longer term. I think I understand some of the motivation for this, since organizations have been destroyed through adulteration; at the same time, I think there's a better way, in which there's room for new insight and refinement of practices based on learned experience.
"What criticism are you aware of, and did it give you second thought?"
I certainly won't list them all. Some have to do with upper level texts and processing, of course. Others have to do with the Sea Org and ethics/discipline within the organizational staff. I'm not a member of any Scientology organization. I don't have a sense of "second thought," which isn't to say that I invalidate or validate anything.
"Are you concerned about 'entheta' on this sub or elsewhere, that it might prevent you from looking at it (for example, Going Clear, the doc or book, is a thing - have you seen/read it, or plan to?)"
No, I'm not concerned about that at all.
"Boxers or briefs? [Edit: Or pantaloons?]"
Briefs.


Q:
Welcome /u/holdingcorners , glad to see you here. The discussions on this sub have a tendency to be a little one sided, so it's always welcome when we have a voice that can inject a little balance.
Where do you get your news about Scientology? Are there third-party websites, newspapers, journals that you trust to report objectively on the Church?
Did you do any independent research on Scientology prior to getting on lines?
What's your understanding of the nature of the opposition to Scientology? What do you think drives people to criticize or investigate the Church?


A:
"Where do you get your news about Scientology? Are there third-party websites, newspapers, journals that you trust to report objectively on the Church?"
Google News feed is one source. I have watched "Going Clear," read Scientology-critical books and watched Scientology-critical youtube videos, etc. I've read some other materials that I think are more of an academic nature of "New Religious Movements," etc. I also read Church of Scientology materials, including web and magazine materials.
"Did you do any independent research on Scientology prior to getting on lines?"
Before taking any course, I certainly did so.
"What's your understanding of the nature of the opposition to Scientology? What do you think drives people criticize or investigate the Church?"
The motivation for criticism or investigation is all a matter of personal viewpoint and ethics. Some people might find Scientology philosophy or the Scientology organizational practices to be immoral, or otherwise things to be opposed and acted against.


Q:
Did it bother you that no independent researcher has ever concluded that Hubbard's engram theories are correct? There is not a single study I know of which reached a conclusion that Hubbard was correct, and there are multiple I know of that concluded that he was wrong. If his entire religion is based on engrams and his beliefs about the mind, yet they have been proven false, why would you start to take courses?
Is there any process unique to Hubbard's beliefs that you have had a positive experience with that cannot be obtained via meditation, yoga, or any other practice? For example, TRs are not unique to Hubbard's beliefs, and can be practiced and learned about in various other forms, with similar results. Why not pursue a practice that can be verified by the scientific community as true?
I understand why you would continue to use something you have found useful, I do the same. Even though I know Scientology is mostly false (due in part to the fact that the basic theories have never been duplicated in a scientific environment) I still use some basic philosophical ideas it contains in my daily life. However, why did you start studying something if you had read independent research on the subject prior to starting?


A:
"Did it bother you that no independent researcher has ever concluded that Hubbard's engram theories are correct?"
Not at all. While Dianetics book states that engrams are a physical phenomenon, I believe that later on, this is abandoned in favor of stating that they are not physical in nature at all. My interest is in workability; that is my criterion in practice.
"If his entire religion is based on engrams and his beliefs about the mind, yet they have been proven false, why would you start to take courses?"
I have a lot of agreement with the philosophy. Of particular note, regarding service facsimiles and responsibility. The workability for me is paramount over the veracity of any particular claim.
"Is there any process unique to Hubbard's beliefs that you have had a positive experience with that cannot be obtained via meditation, yoga, or any other practice? For example, TRs are not unique to Hubbard's beliefs, and can be practiced and learned about in various other forms, with similar results."
I don't know the answer to that question based on my experience. I hope that people get a lot of value from whatever works for them.
"Why not pursue a practice that can be verified by the scientific community as true?"
There is a physical universe with objective phenomena. Methods can be deployed to try to approximate the actuality of what is occurring in that universe. As for truth, I do agree with: what's true for you is true. My experience has a lot to do with physical phenomena, and also has a lot to do with the reality that I create on an ongoing basis with my thoughts considerations. I'm not interested in the veracity of a description so much as I am in the impact on my own experience. That isn't to say that I don't find science and double-blind studies to be interesting.
"...why did you start studying something if you had read independent research on the subject prior to starting?"
To clarify, that study wasn't independent of that "independent research." I concurrently looked at Scientology-produced information and Scientology-critical information.


Q:
What were the wins you got from Scientology? Tell us more.


A:
While I certainly don't attribute this solely to Scientology: I've gotten that I'm totally responsible for my experience of life, an ability to be with others without defensiveness or need to be critical/evaluate others, again seeing and experiencing the small things in life that move me and I find beautiful, not taking things so seriously, not making myself or others wrong, and an ability to simply be and observe.


Q:
Do you believe the idea of Scientology that we are immortal spiritual beings who have been around for a very long time and have forgotten their true nature? If so, are you interested in trying to uncover your past and recover your OT abilities?


A:
I have no reality on "immortality." My experience is in the present. I can understand that immortality might be true or useful to someone. I don't have any knowledge on whether or not this life is the only I've lived. I have interest in getting clearer on this lifetime's experiences. My objective is to enjoy my experience of living; I don't have some other conceptual or real objective that's different from and not a part of that.


Q:
How much has your experience with Scientology cost you in dollars so far ?


A:
About $2,000.


Q:
Has the staff tried to sell you on any major Bridge actions? How did you turn them down?


A:
Yes. I declined, stating that I had other course interests.


Q:
How would you rate your over all expirence with the Church? What were some of the courses you took about? Did you enjoy auditing? If so, what did it entail for you? If there was a Church of Scientology without the controversial elements do you believe more people would attend? Thanks!


A:
"How would you rate your over all expirence with the Church?"
So, first of all, I consider that I'm responsible for my experience of the church. Sometimes I've found certain things to be frustrating; for instance, in cases in which I didn't agree with or get the reason for a particular policy or way of doing things. I've endeavored to learn from my experiences in those cases, and recognize that I'm responsible for my choice to engage with the church. Overall, I've gotten a lot of value from my experiences.
"What were some of the courses you took about?"
I've done a number of book courses on various subjects. I learned about service facsimiles, or the tendency of people to rely on things like illness and inability to excuse failures in life. That is very real to me. I have done a couple courses in which I did training routines on communication. I think that TR-0, looking at someone for an extended period of time, to be very powerful. I got that I could be there, without feeling compelled to be interesting, and that opened up a lot of possibility for me. A lot of my study has been outside the context of coursework.
"Did you enjoy auditing? If so, what did it entail for you?"
I only took one intensive of auditing so far. There wasn't a lot to it for me - I don't suppose I had a lot of upset to handle, and that auditing was addressed more toward that. I've also listened to group auditing by L. Ron Hubbard, and found that to be a great experience. I was able to get outside my head and be more extroverted, in term of my experience of the world.
"If there was a Church of Scientology without the controversial elements do you believe more people would attend?"
Maybe. I think that what is controversial is a subjective thing and subject to change over time. My sense is that there is a certain lack of tactical flexibility organizationally.


Q:
I assume you're talking about the church of Scientology, the organization run by David Miscavige. How long have you been in? What level have you reached?
Have you been "regged" to keep buying books and courses, make donations, have they called or written you at home for these purposes?
What have your interactions with staff members, Sea Org members or other members of the Scientology public been like? Has the value you've received been from courses/auditing, from the church itself, or both?
I'm sure I'll think of more questions, but I'll stick to these for the moment.


A:
"I assume you're talking about the church of Scientology, the organization run by David Miscavige. How long have you been in? What level have you reached?"
I'm not a member of any Scientology organization. I have taken courses through Church of Scientology for the past couple year. The courses are introductory in nature, I believe.
"Have you been 'regged' to keep buying books and courses, make donations, have they called or written you at home for these purposes?"
I've been requested to take courses and purchase books. I've received phone calls and mail in this regard. I've not taken any course or purchased any book/item I didn't choose to take and purchase. While that might seem like a truism, my sense is that some might think that "pressure" somehow mitigates individual responsibility and choice.
"What have your interactions with staff members, Sea Org members or other members of the Scientology public been like? Has the value you've received been from courses/auditing, from the church itself, or both?"
I may have met Sea org members in person - I'm not sure. I've had plenty of interaction with staff members. Generally, I find them to be very nice people who are very interested in their work. I appreciate the level of honesty I've experienced from them. The value that I mentioned came from courses and my own study of materials.


Q:
Are you only interested in promoting Scientology, or would you also be interested in learning about criticisms of Scientology? I can tell you right now that we could tell you things which might alter your own opinion of Scientology. Are you concerned that we might enturbulate you?


A:
I'm not concerned about upset from getting information on Scientology. I've spent much time looking into various matters, have watched "Going Clear," read Scientology-critical books and watched Scientology-critical youtube videos, etc.


Q:
Now that I have seen your responses to some of the other questions I will throw in my questions.
What is your belief about the stories told in Going Clear and other documentaries of that nature? Ie: do you believe they are made up, only extreme cases, all true, etc?
Depending on your above answer, if you believe they are not all true, how do you reconcile the fact that there are so many ex-members all agreeing on basic treatment of Sea Org members, etc. If you do believe they are all true stories, why do you continue to give money to an organization obviously abusing its staff? Why not move over to the Freezone or Indy movements, where you could have better service, for cheaper, without supporting an abusive organization?
Those are the questions I am most interested in, but as a side note, I wanted to mention that as an ex-Scientologist, who fully believes the CofS is a cult, and that Scientology itself is (mostly) false, I also believe it has a few really helpful tools. I think that TRs are actually very useful, as is the concept of getting "O/Ws" off your chest (confessing wrong doings is an age old therapy), as is the basic process of auditing (asking questions and actually listening, without judgement to the answers). In short, I believe all the things you have done so far are the only useful parts of Scientology, and I believe it is structured that way so people will become invested in the subject and then not want to admit when things stop working as well (when OW tech is over done and you are forced to do some huge OW writeup, or when you do countless hours of objectives LONG past the EP of the process, etc). This is a calculated move to draw people in and keep them in. I want to urge you to be cautious and never emotional or financially invest yourself into the subject. You can use a therapy (like Scientology) to improve your life, but be careful not to allow it to take over your life.
With that, I have one further line of questioning:
What plans do you have for your future in Scientology? Do you plan on doing training? Any major Bridge steps? Do you have any plans on spending a total of more than 5K on Scientology in your lifetime? If yes, have you considered the testimonies from so many other members who were once as happy as you, but later on regretted spending so much money chasing a dream they later believed was impossible to attain? Do you believe that a similar thing could happen to you?


A:
"What is your belief about the stories told in Going Clear and other documentaries of that nature? Ie: do you believe they are made up, only extreme cases, all true, etc?"
I don't know. I personally think that there are plenty of Scientology-critical people who are saying what's true to them based on their personal experience and ethical standpoint. When looking at something "that happened," I like to separate objective facts from story/interpretation. If someone strikes someone in the face, that's an objective fact, for instance. If someone "was abused," that's a story/interpretation. My understanding of Scientology organization is that it's comprised of people are determine and choose to associate with it. And then sometimes they choose to leave.
"If you do believe they are all true stories, why do you continue to give money to an organization obviously abusing its staff? Why not move over to the Freezone or Indy movements, where you could have better service, for cheaper, without supporting an abusive organization?"
I don't have the information. What I observe is a bunch of people that seem pretty upbeat and seem to me to authentically share their experiences. I don't have personal experience with the movements you refer to.
"I want to urge you to be cautious and never emotional or financially invest yourself into the subject. You can use a therapy (like Scientology) to improve your life, but be careful not to allow it to take over your life."
I appreciate your motivation and concern. I recognize the power of my own choice and responsibility in the matter of life.
"What plans do you have for your future in Scientology? Do you plan on doing training? Any major Bridge steps? Do you have any plans on spending a total of more than 5K on Scientology in your lifetime? If yes, have you considered the testimonies from so many other members who were once as happy as you, but later on regretted spending so much money chasing a dream they later believed was impossible to attain? Do you believe that a similar thing could happen to you?"
Jointly addressing the above questions: My plans at present include book courses, listening to group processing sessions, and, more generally, keeping in present time, and honoring my word to others and myself. I evaluate my experience as I have it, while not closing paths off out of resignation and cynicism. I don't think I know it all, and I'm a very curious person.


THE Q&A IS STILL ACTIVE, SO ASK AWAY!
 

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Q&A is still ongoing!



Q:
Welcome! Many of my initial intro to the CoS mirror your experience except when it came to the regging.
Did they ask you any questions about funding your courses and can you explain your interactions with the regs? And did you join the IAS?
I'm curious if the funding I experienced was due to who introduced me and if it is different depending on what possible financial info they have on you when you start taking basic courses. Btw: I would also be interested in former regs responding to these questions.


A:
No one has asked about how I would or wouldn't fund anything. I have funding to do which courses or actions I would choose to do. I'm not an IAS member.


Q:
I have a question:
Have you ever tested a Clear or OT to see if they have the abilities / character traits they claim to? If so, were you satisfied with the results?


A:
I have not done so.


Q:
Thank you OP for letting us pick your brain.
I preface my question by stating that I am an extreme amateur about Scientology so I beg you to forgive me if I sound ignorant, I'm just trying to learn.
My questions are: Is being a person of means required to get in to Scientology? Can you be a Scientologist without paying any money? What do you feel is the biggest myth about Scientology?


A:
"Is being a person of means required to get in to Scientology?"
It helps to have money certainly. The books and services cost money. Some of the course cost only $50, and books and audio materials can be purchase second-hand much more cheaply than through the publisher.
"Can you be a Scientologist without paying any money?"
I personally think so. That said, I don't really know what "Scientologist" means, other than one who considers that they are a Scientologist. The services cost money, and books and other materials cost money. So, generally speaking, I expect that someone studying Scientology would have related monetary costs.
"What do you feel is the biggest myth about Scientology?"
All stories, ideas, and concepts are invented by someone - someone is the author. As for me, I either have reality on some idea or concept (as in "wow, that's so true!"), or I don't.


Q:
I am curious what country / org you received services from? You say you are not a member of any organization, but you are getting services from the church, so I'm wondering where. I thought they required everyone receiving services to join at least one kind of group. Or that at a certain level everyone was supposed to join the IAS at least.
I think if you saw Sea Org members you'd know because of their naval uniforms.


A:
"I am curious what country / org you received services from?"
In the United States.
"I thought they required everyone receiving services to join at least one kind of group. Or that at a certain level everyone was supposed to join the IAS at least."
I don't know if IAS membership is required at some level. My understanding is that IAS membership affords discounted services; otherwise, I'm not aware of any requirement to join any entity in order to get services.
"I think if you saw Sea Org members you'd know because of their naval uniforms."
I don't believe that Sea Org members generally wear naval-style uniforms any more.
 

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Q&A is still ongoing!


Q:
What aspect of Scientology would you say makes it fundamentally different from other self helping material and courses?
Were you shown the usual demonstration of the E-meter involving a little pinch in your arm?
I know you only did introductory courses, but does it trouble you that the Church of Scientology could possibly use private information you give to them (for example in possible future auditing sessions or from written up texts) against you in the future?


A:
"What aspect of Scientology would you say makes it fundamentally different from other self helping material and courses?"
I don't consider that I'm in a position to comprehensively answer that. I think that the emphasis on processing is one distinction. Some self help things might be more oriented toward lectures, and not performing specific steps associated with some desired end phenomenon.
"Were you shown the usual demonstration of the E-meter involving a little pinch in your arm?"
Only when I was about to do an auditing intensive.
"I know you only did introductory courses, but does it trouble you that the Church of Scientology could possibly use private information you give to them (for example in possible future auditing sessions or from written up texts) against you in the future?"
For one thing, I haven't said anything that would concern me were it to be in the public domain. For another, I don't believe that such things would be released into the public domain. And so, I'm not concerned. My preference is to live life in a way without secrets or regrets.


Q:
Thanks for posting. A few questions (some of which piggyback on earlier answers):
You commonly cite personal gains including the ability to take responsibility, not needing to be defensive or critical, and the ability "to be." Have you investigated other systems or practices besides Scientology that offer the same gains according to their practitioners, including karma yoga, study of the Tao Te Ching, traditional therapy of any sort, or other self-help texts and movements?
You have stated that you are not concerned with encountering entheta on this sub and that you have read/seen entheta. If this means you are not concerned with how it affects your personal development, are you concerned with the consequences of the CoS finding out about it?
Have you looked into the Church of Scientology's documented history of criminal activity, stalking and harassment, and worse? If so, are you concerned about this or funding this activity through course fees?
Have you read OT materials or the works of L. Ron Hubbard besides Dianetics? I'm talking about the lesser-known works like A History of Man, Routine 3N: Line Plots, Affirmations/Admissions, and Science of Survival. If so, what is your opinion of them?
Regarding boxers or briefs, have you considered the spiritually freeing aspects of going commando?


A:
Certainly, I've investigated or various philosophies and practices so greater or lesser extent.
I'm not concerned about any Scientologist finding out anything about me or my actions.
"Have you looked into the Church of Scientology's documented history of criminal activity, stalking and harassment, and worse? If so, are you concerned about this or funding this activity through course fees?"
Please see some responses above in response to similar questions.
"Have you read OT materials or the works of L. Ron Hubbard besides Dianetics? I'm talking about the lesser-known works like A History of Man, Routine 3N: Line Plots, Affirmations/Admissions, and Science of Survival. If so, what is your opinion of them?"
I'm reading Science of Surival now. I think it has some useful information on various aspects of emotional state.
"Regarding boxers or briefs, have you considered the spiritually freeing aspects of going commando?"
I prefer to counter the forces of gravity and stick with briefs.


Q:
"Have you looked into the Church of Scientology's documented history of criminal activity, stalking and harassment, and worse? If so, are you concerned about this or funding this activity through course fees?"
Please see some responses above in response to similar questions.
I have read them. From what I can tell by your statements in this thread, you have an inquisitive nature and like to research. However in the matter of the CoS's abusive/criminal history it seems that you rely on personal experience and the "what's true for you" doctrine, or else you haven't dug into the primary sources for these cases yet.
/u/Echo1883 has already pointed out documented cases involving the Guardian's Office, Snow White, Freakout, treatment of the Sea Org, etc. From here, you can find other cases with little difficulty, including the testimony of LRH's son, support of apartheid, and of course the deaths of people under the care of the CoS and/or Narconon. While it's true that personal perspective is a strong motivator for action and can differ from person to person, there is a preponderance of testimony and evidence supporting the CoS's history as a dangerous entity from many sources at all levels with many affiliations, while counter-arguments usually have one source: the CoS.
I like your apparent skepticism and judgment in determining the relative value of different aspects of CoS services. I hope that you apply that same judgment to evaluating the published history of the CoS.
"Have you read OT materials or the works of L. Ron Hubbard besides Dianetics? I'm talking about the lesser-known works like A History of Man, Routine 3N: Line Plots, Affirmations/Admissions, and Science of Survival. If so, what is your opinion of them?"
I'm reading Science of Surival now. I think it has some useful information on various aspects of emotional state.
You have stated that you consider Scientology to consist of the written words of LRH, which you also stated was a flawed basis. Is there anything in LRH's texts that struck you as false or alarming?


A:
I think that he too readily dismisses the group he referred to as "suppressive persons" as the dregs of humanity that should not have civil rights. I agree that there are actually people who have the operating principle of harming others, sometimes overtly and probably more often covertly. My own ethics is such that I place value on all human happiness and think that even convicted criminals should be afforded many rights by agreement of society.


Q:
Do you believe the Xenu story now? If not, do you think you'd believe it once you reach OT III?


A:
I don't have a belief on anything involving Xenu. I don't know what my personal experience will be in the future. I do not care so much about my own beliefs; in fact, I think that beliefs can get in the way. Beliefs can be neat and tidy compartmentalizations that prevent experiencing experience. I'll find true what I find to be true.


Q:
All of these are genuine insights that can be gained from Scientology. I still consider myself to be responsible for my own experience of life, even though I am no longer a Scientologist. Interesting that "not taking things so seriously" is one of the benefits that you have obtained. I presume that you have read the policy letter "Keeping Scientology Working" (since you have taken courses, and that policy letter is required to be part of every course). It tells you that Scientology is an extremely serious matter, and everyone must take it very seriously. You are also forbidden by policy to ever joke about Scientology (the policy letter is called "Jokers And Degraders"). So, Scientologists wind up as very serious people.


A:
I have not read that item in context of courses. I do take seriously my agreements with others and with myself. That isn't to say that my experience of living needs to be heavy and dull.


Q:
I can tell you as a former staff member that the experience of working for the Church of Scientology is a very serious matter indeed. You, as a public person, do not experience the same pressures that staff members do. However, it is still true that there are many contradictions in Scientology. You may find that it is helping you to take life less seriously, but if you stick with it, it becomes increasingly serious. You have spent $2000 so far, but if you wind up spending a quarter of a million dollars going up the bridge, which is a typical figure, it is going to become much more serious. Many people have to choose between being about to afford to own a home, and being able to afford Scientology. And that is a serious matter.


A:
"Many people have to choose between being about to afford to own a home, and being able to afford Scientology. And that is a serious matter."
I suppose that would be serious if one said that it's serious. If one had a compulsion (experienced need to do something while "not wanting" to do it) on anything, I think that would probably inhibit happiness.


Q:
I was genuinely not aware that CoS promoted levity. Is that what you mean, or do you mean that there are now different things that you take seriously?
I've got a huge stick up my ass most of the time, as well as near-crippling anxiety, and frankly what I see from ex-Scientologists are a lot of stories about anxiety over getting RPF'd over downstats, or taking very, very seriously the task of Clearing the Planet. It looks like a culture that would make my problems worse, not better.
I'm interested to hear a story from someone that would claim the opposite outcome. Please explain to me what parts of the Tech have had an EP for you of taking things less seriously, and how they did it for you.


A:
"I was genuinely not aware that CoS promoted levity. Is that what you mean, or do you mean that there are now different things that you take seriously?"
No, I mean that I don't take things so seriously - period. I think plenty of things are humorous in the world. That doesn't mean that I don't find some things to be important. I can fear something and that's ok, for instance; I get that, to me, my own fears have a certain ludicrous quality, in that I've acted like fear is actual objective thing in the world, when it's entirely a thing that I made up. So, not taking fear so seriously is one example. So "ok-ness" for me goes hand in hand with not taking things so seriously. I can choose to go with the flow of things rather than resisting things.
"...what I see from ex-Scientologists are a lot of stories about anxiety over getting RPF'd over downstats, or taking very, very seriously the task of Clearing the Planet."
I'm not on staff and so don't have stats, and I'm not especially interested in proselytizing. That's my own choice. I understand that RFP is something associated with the Sea Org and not Scientology staff generally and certainly not non-staff consumers of Scientology services.
"Please explain to me what parts of the Tech have had an EP for you of taking things less seriously, and how they did it for you."
I'll try to be clear while being brief. Based on my TR experience, I got that my affinity for others is my willingness to occupy the space of another and to adopt their viewpoint, without releasing my own. I have recognized that I want through a lot of life not really looking at others (both with my eyeballs and with my attention), because I had fear of others. My sense of affinity for others increasing makes people less dangerous to me, because in a sense that real to me, I am them.
Being able to redirect my attention from inward (toward my body or my mental chatter) to outward (observing what is occurring) has been a great way for me to reduce my sense of stress of anxiety. Really, for me a lot of it all boils down to being able to "be there" only, and not listen to mental chatter or be concerned with being interesting or looking good and instead to observe and be. In my experience, that creates what I call "space," in which anything is possible. I can get in touch with who I am (which is who I say I am and know to be true).


Q:
The TR experience(s) you're describing sounds like Scientology's version of the trendy "mindfulness" movement. Is that about right? Which TR drills gave you that ability to create your "space"?


A:
I'm not familiar with "mindfulness" as a practice and so cannot make a comparison with Scientology TRs. I'm mainly referring to TR-0 Confront - sitting across from someone with eyes open, not fidgeting or doing anything other than sitting and looking (and not struggling not to do anything other than that).
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
I wonder if by seeing Going Clear he means he watched the cult videos on Going Clear. Anyway, he should be encouraged to get back to us when he's spent, say, $50,000. $2,000 is nothing. And he's not even an IAS member!

If he really read "in-depth" about the criticisms of Scientology, maybe he should be asked if he has a history of mental illness.

Someone should ask him if he chain-smokes for his health, like Elron.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I wonder if by seeing Going Clear he means he watched the cult videos on Going Clear. Anyway, he should be encouraged to get back to us when he's spent, say, $50,000. $2,000 is nothing. And he's not even an IAS member!

He's, obviously, very new to the COS and hasn't been subject to the nonsense & abuses that occur as one gets deeper in the cult. He's still taking 'Scientology 101'. His reply here is very revealing:

What is your belief about the stories told in Going Clear and other documentaries of that nature? Ie: do you believe they are made up, only extreme cases, all true, etc?"

"I don't know. I personally think that there are plenty of Scientology-critical people who are saying what's true to them based on their personal experience and ethical standpoint. When looking at something "that happened," I like to separate objective facts from story/interpretation. If someone strikes someone in the face, that's an objective fact, for instance. If someone "was abused," that's a story/interpretation. My understanding of Scientology organization is that it's comprised of people are determine and choose to associate with it. And then sometimes they choose to leave."

In other words, he's willing at this stage in his life, to throw all caution & facts to the wind, so he can satisfy his curiosity. We can't prevent him from doing that, but, yes, we should remind him of this board, so when he reaches that point in his involvement where he's been manipulated & screwed over (it is inevitable), we will be here to help him unravel facts from fiction. :)
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yawn...It is OSA BLOG. Someone is asking them questions about that very thing but they will probably get kicked off.

When someone says they only have good reviews and show no concern for anything else - did not spend much money - did their research and still thinks it is okay - it is OSA.

No Scientologist active in their right mind would have anything to do with this. First of all, Scientologist's CAN'T COMMUNICATE ABOUT ANYTHING - espcecially their TECH. Remember? "No Verbal Tech". Second of all, Scientologist's can't communicate about anything especially Scientology. They have been so suppressed by everyone - including the tech, their other members and WOGS. Really - Scientology is the most suppressing group on the planet when you really look at it.

This is the clue to me that this is OSA.

Stupid Blog.

Not going to waste my time even reading it.


OSA is so predictable.

Oh, I almost forgot:

FUCK YOU OSA
 

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yawn...It is OSA BLOG. Someone is asking them questions about that very thing but they will probably get kicked off.

When someone says they only have good reviews and show no concern for anything else - did not spend much money - did their research and still thinks it is okay - it is OSA.

No Scientologist active in their right mind would have anything to do with this.

Stupid Blog.

Not going to waste my time even reading it.


OSA is so predictable.

Reddit is an OSA blog?
You know you are talking BS, right?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I wonder if by seeing Going Clear he means he watched the cult videos on Going Clear. Anyway, he should be encouraged to get back to us when he's spent, say, $50,000. $2,000 is nothing. And he's not even an IAS member!

If he really read "in-depth" about the criticisms of Scientology, maybe he should be asked if he has a history of mental illness.

Someone should ask him if he chain-smokes for his health, like Elron.

The most important line:

"My sense is that there is a certain lack of tactical flexibility organizationally."

This reminds me of when that guy segues into politely reading Tom Hanks his Miranda Rights in The Bonfire of the Vanities like it was just part of the normal conversation.
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
When someone says they only have good reviews and show no concern for anything else - did not spend much money - did their research and still thinks it is okay - it is OSA.

Anyone in the thrall of their first few years in the cult is not going to want to engage in discussion or do PR for the cult by being an unofficial spokeshole. Plus, come on, two years -- they don't know anything and they'd be too busy, absorbed in their own experience and what is true for them. So that's why I think it could be OSA or some clam volunteering to do PR and write acceptable truths.

Now that their official spokeshole has been sewn shut, and even freaks like Louanne no longer are allowed to write stupid things, this is what's left. This is the new Louanne.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
When is saw this in the forums list it read : An Active Scientologist is Doing...
When I opened it I expected to see : An Active Scientologist is Doing things to my mirror!
Rats. Oh well.
 

beltway

Bone Idle
Obviously Reddit ain't OSA. This guy might be, but I tend to think he's just a young kid flexing his debate-team chops.

When the money thing was asked, he didn't go for "exchange" or say "Sure, but join staff and ya getcher bridge FREE!"
 

Gib

Crusader
http://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/38dsgf/scientology_ask_me_anything/

According to the person who is answering all your questions:

I've taken a number of Scientology courses and have gotten a lot of value from it. I've studied Scientology (and the criticisms of it) in-depth. I'm not in the Sea Org or a staff member or anything like that - I'm a person who's gotten value from Scientology. Ask me anything about Scientology. This is my first post here.






Letttsss Go and ask everything :)

The person is reading and learning about the first scientology, the basics, the good stuff, one could say, or the bait,

which we all fell for.

I think Alanzo explains it well here:

http://www.alanzosblog.com/how-l-ron-hubbard-tricked-you-two-scientologys/

FWIW
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Obviously Reddit ain't OSA. This guy might be, but I tend to think he's just a young kid flexing his debate-team chops.

When the money thing was asked, he didn't go for "exchange" or say "Sure, but join staff and ya getcher bridge FREE!"

What do you mean "Obviously Reddit ain't OSA"

OSA can and does post and create blogs.

SOP to confuse the clubbed seals.

He may be a noobie flexing his new Oat Tea Powerz - but I smell OSA Bot dung:coolwink:
 

BlackRob

Gold Meritorious Patron
What do you mean "Obviously Reddit ain't OSA"

OSA can and does post and create blogs.

SOP to confuse the clubbed seals.

He may be a noobie flexing his new Oat Tea Powerz - but I smell OSA Bot dung:coolwink:

Reddit is not a blog dude, and Reddit is certainly not an OSA powered website.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Reddit is not a blog dude, and Reddit is certainly not an OSA powered website.

What is Reddit "dude"?:p I didn't know obviously and have asked a few times now. I went and looked it up because you did not help,.

Reddit /ˈrɛdɪt/,[SUP][6][/SUP] stylized as reddit,[SUP][7][/SUP] is an entertainment, social networking, and news website where registered community members can submit content, such as text posts or direct links, making it essentially an online bulletin board system. Registered users can then vote submissions up or down to organize the posts and determine their position on the site's pages. Content entries are organized by areas of interest called "subreddits." The subreddit topics include news, gaming, movies, music, books, fitness, food, and photosharing, among others.
Reddit was founded by University of Virginia roommates Steve Huffman and Alexis Ohanian in 2005. Condé Nast Publications acquired the site in October 2006. Reddit became a direct subsidiary of Condé Nast's parent company, Advance Publications, in September 2011. As of August 2012, Reddit operates as an independent entity, although Advance is still its largest shareholder.[SUP][8][/SUP] Reddit is based in San Francisco, California. In October 2014 Snoop Dogg and Jared Leto bought a stake in Reddit worth $50 million[SUP][9][/SUP] which valued the company at $500 million.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]

Did this person use reddit to post their thoughts about Scamonology or not? They did.

I think it is OSA trying to get a few people to think you can do a little Scientology - you don't have to go all the way.

Another OSA trap to find some trusting souls who want to dip their toes in.:yes: We all know that you dip one toe in and you get sucked in over your head.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think the guy is a dupe, no newbie Scio would go out there and answer questions publicly. I think its a cult stunt and some questions (not all) are being submitted by Scios or OSA sock-puppets registered on Reddit. I mean "Tell us about your wins" come the fuck on. Very few hard hitting questions that I would think would come from the typical reddit user that knows anything about the cult.

I also don't believe for a second when cult members claim to have seen Going Clear or having read critical books and articles. I think the cult is very clear that they are never to watch/read such things but if asked claim they have and then say it didn't change their opinion one bit, it's their opinion, etc... I wish when a clam would make such statements someone would ask a question about the documentary that anyone seeing it could answer just to show these asswipes haven't watched or read jackshit.
 

beltway

Bone Idle
What do you mean "Obviously Reddit ain't OSA"

OSA can and does post and create blogs.

SOP to confuse the clubbed seals.

He may be a noobie flexing his new Oat Tea Powerz - but I smell OSA Bot dung:coolwink:

Yeah, I don't doubt OSA is still up to their eyebrows in Internet failures lol. They can pay off politicians, judges, officials, etc. but all the cash Slappy blows on "likes" on Fecesbook and DDOS attacks doesn't seem to help the cult stop looking destructive and insane. :biggrin:

Reddit is pretty interesting. Anybody can make a "reddit" on any topic at http://www.reddit.com, and people comment if they want. The most popular ones are usually pretty funny or interesting. So this guy's reddit might be an OSA gig but there are probably a few blasting the cult, too.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the guy is a dupe, no newbie Scio would go out there and answer questions publicly. I think its a cult stunt and some questions (not all) are being submitted by Scios or OSA sock-puppets registered on Reddit. I mean "Tell us about your wins" come the fuck on. Very few hard hitting questions that I would think would come from the typical reddit user that knows anything about the cult.

I also don't believe for a second when cult members claim to have seen Going Clear or having read critical books and articles. I think the cult is very clear that they are never to watch/read such things but if asked claim they have and then say it didn't change their opinion one bit, it's their opinion, etc... I wish when a clam would make such statements someone would ask a question about the documentary that anyone seeing it could answer just to show these asswipes haven't watched or read jackshit.

GAWD it feels good to be duplicated...:happydance:

Black Rob was suppressing me:grouch:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by BlackRob
Reddit is an OSA blog?
You know you are talking BS, right?

"Reddit is not a blog dude, and Reddit is certainly not an OSA powered website"


I had asked him a few times what REDDIT was and he never answered me....so I had "answer hunger and I then I got an engram!
Dammit!:omg:

Thank you Bunny:wink2: for acking me - I blew the charge and am now VGI's!
 
Top