An as yet not-asked question (as far as I know)

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
Uh... my unit is clean because it was circumcised. I can't rule out with 100% certainty that those who weren't cut aren't. I really haven't studied it that closely, if ya get my drift.

Whatever floats your boat.

But I can tell you with certainty that I don't have any engrams or schematics (somatics) from the event. :omg:
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
If this one fact; -eighth day circumcision- was the only remarkable scientific validation in the TORA, then it would still be unlikely to be random. When you couple it with all the various hygienic laws, you must conclude an advanced technology as the source.

Erm...no, not really.

It's not just the various dietary laws that condemned pork, shellfish, and other meats as being 'unclean' that are later proved to be very unhealthy by modern science, or the quarantine laws of the TORA that demonstrate an undeniable mastery of microbiology that compels me to believe. It's got to be the fact that some of the major prophecies of this book are coming true around us that really compels me. Like the main theme of the book of the Jews returning to Zion. I case you hadn't noticed, it happened for real in 1948.


The dietary laws in the Old Testament certainly make sense as regards the era (c. 1350 B.C.) and the meteorological climate in which they were established; certain foods are indeed especially susceptible to infection (in the pre-refridgeration era) unless consumed immediately, which may not always have been possible or practical.

I don't see how this has anything to do with 'Divine Inspiration'; my supposition would be that our middle eastern ancestors weren't devoid of common sense and were perfectly capable of observation and discovering by 'trial and error' what worked and what didn't.

Turning to the fulfilled prophesy of the Jews returning to Zion (1948): thank you for informing me of that. It had, of course, completely escaped my attention....it's going really well over there, isn't it? :coolwink: :whistling:

But seriously, it's undeniable that the sense of cultural identity that exists amongst many people of Jewish origin is a formidable force in the world; a similar (if less strident) phenomenon can be observed with, say, the Irish in America.

It doesn't surprise me therefore that the people of the 'Diaspora' would eventually, having amassed the political clout to make it a reality, demand restoration of a 'homeland', which, of course, is exactly what has happened.

Palestinians may take a less philosophical view...:whistling:

Again, this seems easily explainable from a secular/sociological POV without recourse to 'scripture' or the mysterious workings of the 'Divine'.
 
Last edited:

TalleyWhacker

Patron with Honors
To the contrary, the subject of circumsion was addressed.
Well, in a way...
When born, LRH was void of eyelids
Back in that day they tried their best to graft skin from other parts of his body (thighs, buttocks etc.) in an attempt to provide him a working set of eyelids.
Meanwhile they had these small cups formed to keep moisture in the eyes--drying out of the eyes can be very harmful.
Before long, someone suggested foreskin as having much the same properties as eyelids.
(Go ahead, feel it--take a pinch, rool it around on your fingertips--you'll see this is correct)
So they circumsized the young baby, grafted the skin on the eyes and sure enough, it took and the problem was completely overcome.
The surgeon who performed the procedure was one of the precursers of our modern day cosmetic surgeons and was really made quite famous as a result of the operation.
And the baby, well, he was fine--it worked!

Of course, if you looked at him straight on, he appeared a bit "cock-eyed".
:coolwink:
So that's why offical scriptures about circumsion were not widely known. They were not for BPI.
 

Good twin

Floater
To the contrary, the subject of circumsion was addressed.
Well, in a way...
When born, LRH was void of eyelids
Back in that day they tried their best to graft skin from other parts of his body (thighs, buttocks etc.) in an attempt to provide him a working set of eyelids.
Meanwhile they had these small cups formed to keep moisture in the eyes--drying out of the eyes can be very harmful.
Before long, someone suggested foreskin as having much the same properties as eyelids.
(Go ahead, feel it--take a pinch, rool it around on your fingertips--you'll see this is correct)
So they circumsized the young baby, grafted the skin on the eyes and sure enough, it took and the problem was completely overcome.
The surgeon who performed the procedure was one of the precursers of our modern day cosmetic surgeons and was really made quite famous as a result of the operation.
And the baby, well, he was fine--it worked!

Of course, if you looked at him straight on, he appeared a bit "cock-eyed".
:coolwink:
So that's why offical scriptures about circumsion were not widely known. They were not for BPI.

Of course. :duh:
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
The dietary laws in the Old Testament certainly make sense as regards the era (c. 1350 B.C.) and the meteorological climate in which they were established; certain foods are indeed especially susceptible to infection (in the pre-refridgeration era) unless consumed immediately, which may not always have been possible or practical.

Nah, that doesn't cover it. Pork and Beef, for instance, are pretty similar in their longevity, but one is banned, the other ok. We now know why, but not until modern times.

I don't see how this has anything to do with 'Divine Inspiration'; my supposition would be that our middle eastern ancestors weren't devoid of common sense and were perfectly capable of observation and discovering by 'trial and error' what worked and what didn't.

It would have been pretty difficult to deduce the quarantine laws from trial and error. Read them sometime; covering food jars, burning infected clothes, moving infected people downwind, etc.

Take washing things in flowing water, not still water. For centuries people just thought that God was just being arbitrary to test the Jews faith or something, because scientists knew that there is no difference between water that is moving or still. That is, until microscopes were invented, and stagnant water was seen to have much more microbes in it.

None of this emerged from trial and error afterwards, even though the Old Testament was around. There are stories of people kissing their relatives good by before they died of the black plague in Europe, insuring it's spread for many years.

Turning to the fulfilled prophesy of the Jews returning to Zion (1948): thank you for informing me of that. It had, of course, completely escaped my attention....it's going really well over there, isn't it? :coolwink: :whistling:

The conflict is predicted in the Bible.

Ever wonder why a place like Jerusalem is such a hot political spot? It's not because of natural resources. It's not a trade center. It hasn't any real strategic value beyond what is artificially considered for it. So, why?

Possibly because it's predicted that the third temple will be built, starting a sort of prophetic chess clock going again. Hence the 'Palestinians' (who are really just Arabs that the Saudis won't let be integrated into the rest of their country just to keep the shit storm brewing) are rabid about not letting any Jews near the temple mound. Never the less, they have the plans ready for the third temple. They even have most of the equipment made, and claim they know that the arc of the covenant will be no problem when the time comes. It's predicted that a 'covenant' will be made (a treaty) allowing them to rebuild. Care to bet your eternity that that will never happen?

Check out some of the stuff they have made. Even a breastplate!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/

But seriously, it's undeniable that the sense of cultural identity that exists amongst many people of Jewish origin is a formidable force in the world; a similar (if less strident) phenomenon can be observed with, say, the Irish in America.

It doesn't surprise me therefore that the people of the 'Diaspora' would eventually, having amassed the political clout to make it a reality, demand restoration of a 'homeland', which, of course, is exactly what has happened.

Do you realize that no other nation has ever been destroyed, it's genetic people scattered, and then reformed with it's culture still mainly intact ever, back into it's historic lands, let alone after nearly two thousand years. Ever. It's unique in history, and totally predicted in the Bible.

As a matter of fact, it was seen as being so unlikely that many theories of these prophecies being symbolic in some way have sprung up. The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, Seventh day Adventists, even some Rosicrucian orders, and others. It's always some version of 'the Jews returning to Zion' as meaning their church coming up with some dogma as 'Zion' and them following it meaning 'returning to'.

It's not real surprising that when the Jews actually returned, they didn't go 'you mean it was literal? Our bad! Here's all the money back.'

Why do people think because politics was involved, that somehow negates the prophecy being correct? Jesus Christ waited until the exact day before riding into Jerusalem on an ass, which he also arranged to fulfill the predictions about it, though people where trying to get him to do it early. Because he knew what he was doing means it's not valid? No one else showed up on the exact day.


Palestinians may take a less philosophical view...:whistling:

So did Hitler. So what?

Again, this seems easily explainable from a secular/sociological POV without recourse to 'scripture' or the mysterious workings of the 'Divine'.

You should study prophecy sometime. Lot's of 'coincidences' to explain away, I'll tell you. The reformation of the Roman empire, communication satellites, smart weapons, world travel, even the Chernobyl nuclear catastrophe is all predicted, plus lots more that hasn't happened yet, like accurate descriptions of the effects of nuclear weapons. (raining fire and brimstone for nukes, people's skin and eyes 'dissolving' while they stand on their feet for neutron weapons ) and the technical aspects of the cleanup afterwards.
 
Last edited:

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Bump.

Nah, that doesn't cover it. Pork and Beef, for instance, are pretty similar in their longevity, but one is banned, the other ok. We now know why, but not until modern times.



It would have been pretty difficult to deduce the quarantine laws from trial and error. Read them sometime; covering food jars, burning infected clothes, moving infected people downwind, etc.

Take washing things in flowing water, not still water. For centuries people just thought that God was just being arbitrary to test the Jews faith or something, because scientists knew that there is no difference between water that is moving or still. That is, until microscopes were invented, and stagnant water was seen to have much more microbes in it.

None of this emerged from trial and error afterwards, even though the Old Testament was around. There are stories of people kissing their relatives good by before they died of the black plague in Europe, insuring it's spread for many years.



The conflict is predicted in the Bible.

Ever wonder why a place like Jerusalem is such a hot political spot? It's not because of natural resources. It's not a trade center. It hasn't any real strategic value beyond what is artificially considered for it. So, why?

Possibly because it's predicted that the third temple will be built, starting a sort of prophetic chess clock going again. Hence the 'Palestinians' (who are really just Arabs that the Saudis won't let be integrated into the rest of their country just to keep the shit storm brewing) are rabid about not letting any Jews near the temple mound. Never the less, they have the plans ready for the third temple. They even have most of the equipment made, and claim they know that the arc of the covenant will be no problem when the time comes. It's predicted that a 'covenant' will be made (a treaty) allowing them to rebuild. Care to bet your eternity that that will never happen?

Check out some of the stuff they have made. Even a breastplate!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/



Do you realize that no other nation has ever been destroyed, it's genetic people scattered, and then reformed with it's culture still mainly intact ever, back into it's historic lands, let alone after nearly two thousand years. Ever. It's unique in history, and totally predicted in the Bible.

As a matter of fact, it was seen as being so unlikely that many theories of these prophecies being symbolic in some way have sprung up. The Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, Seventh day Adventists, even some Rosicrucian orders, and others. It's always some version of 'the Jews returning to Zion' as meaning their church coming up with some dogma as 'Zion' and them following it meaning 'returning to'.

It's not real surprising that when the Jews actually returned, they didn't go 'you mean it was literal? Our bad! Here's all the money back.'

Why do people think because politics was involved, that somehow negates the prophecy being correct? Jesus Christ waited until the exact day before riding into Jerusalem on an ass, which he also arranged to fulfill the predictions about it, though people where trying to get him to do it early. Because he knew what he was doing means it's not valid? No one else showed up on the exact day.




So did Hitler. So what?



You should study prophecy sometime. Lot's of 'coincidences' to explain away, I'll tell you. The reformation of the Roman empire, communication satellites, smart weapons, world travel, even the Chernobyl nuclear catastrophe is all predicted, plus lots more that hasn't happened yet, like accurate descriptions of the effects of nuclear weapons. (raining fire and brimstone for nukes, people's skin and eyes 'dissolving' while they stand on their feet for neutron weapons ) and the technical aspects of the cleanup afterwards.


I've spent a little time looking into Judaic law as regards diet and quarantine etc.

Yes, I must concede you have a point there. I'd previously taken the whole business too lightly...made assumptions that seem to have been unwarranted...my bad.

I accept that 'intervention' seems likely; whether 'Divine' or 'extraterrestrial' seems unclear. I don't mean to go all 'Von Daniken' on you, but do consider that as a possibility?

Erich von Daniken was shown to be a liar and a fraud; but that said, disavowing Erich's BS, do you think there is some merit in the idea of interference in ancient cultures by visitors from extraterrestrial civilisations that could be interpreted, in terms of the articulacy of those times, as visitations from 'God'?

Many authors including for example, John A. Keel who seems to be held in higher regard than many, have expressed opinions about all this...just asking! :)


www.templeinstitute.org/


Yes; these guys mean business, don't they?

The obvious problem with 'prophesy' is that absent specifics re: time, date, place etc. surely they can be interpreted to mean pretty much anything? I'm thinking Nostradamus here; remember all that nonsense about the 'King of Terror' who turned out (via a transcription error) to be 'that nice man who forgives debts'? The end of the world in 2000 and so on.

You mentioned Chernobyl...again...how do you know that? Is Chernobyl mentioned by name in the Scriptures? And 'fire and brimstone': that could be taken to mean nuclear detonation, but couldn't it also mean volcanic eruption?

What would be the point or meaning of prophesy other than to indicate future events with lucidity? If you can see the future, wouldn't it be sensible to simply describe it in terms that could be readily understood by the reader?

Why the enigma...the mystery? What purpose does this serve? I'm not talking about Madame Sosostris here; if prophesy occurs within the Holy Scriptures...God's revelation to Man...what is the point of the vagary?

If the true meaning is lost in translation or something, doesn't this call into question the validity of other tracts of these ancient writings?

If Thomas Paine is to be trusted: the original meaning of the word 'prophet' is 'a singer of songs...a story-teller'...a wandering minstrel almost.

Makes ya wonder eh? :coolwink: :)
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I thought this was about circumcision

I was once in a chat group years ago and the topic of circumcision came up. Apparently, the main reason men thought it was OK is because "everyone else did it and no one wants to be different". Men want their sons to "be the same" as them.
But if you think about it logically, does it make sense to maim a little baby and cause such great trauma? Those babies shriek in pain when they are cut. And what for? To "keep it clean"?
I knew some men who were uncircumcised, and the way you keep it clean is to shower every day and clean it! Circumcision to "keep it clean" is like trimming your nose to avoid the boogers!
OK, maybe that's not quite analagous....
I never had kids, but if I had, I would not circumcise a baby robotically without thinking why. There is plenty of good scientific reason NOT to do it (including sex benefits). A little bit of Googling on the subject would be informative, I'm sure.
Most men don't want to admit they were maimed unnecessarily.
A "covenant with God"?? What was THAT about??
 

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
Males are born with foreskin. Obviously there is an evolutionary and survival related reason for it otherwise males would not be born with it. Why mess with nature?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Males are born with foreskin. Obviously there is an evolutionary and survival related reason for it otherwise males would not be born with it. Why mess with nature?

And, why not?

I don't see that "nature" or "evolution" involves some perfect, error-free operation. But then, I also don't think "evolution" unfolded "accidentally". Somebody or something seems to possibly have been tinkering with life forms for a very long time (recall the beginning of the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey). Some literature explains Earth as a "garden", as a genetic breeding ground for life forms (for some other far more advanced race). I don't know. Could be.

But also, I have noticed that Man's tinkering, with his own body and mind (especially with the new experiments of genetics and the continuing use of man-made drugs), based on grossly limited knowledge, often causes unknown and unwanted side-effects. This is true for the body, mind and for Man's societies. Man's tinkering with himself, especially by self-appointed "controllers" or "social experimenters", often involves outcomes that were largely unanticipated. In that regard, there does seem to be some built in safeguard AGAINST "messing with Mother Nature".
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I've spent a little time looking into Judaic law as regards diet and quarantine etc.

Yes, I must concede you have a point there. I'd previously taken the whole business too lightly...made assumptions that seem to have been unwarranted...my bad.

Wow.

I must compliment you on your courage and integrity. Being able to adjust your opinion with the introduction of new data is what I consider real freedom to be. People with this ability seem to be very rare, from my experience.

Were you a clam? I bet this ability helped you escape early, if you were,

I accept that 'intervention' seems likely; whether 'Divine' or 'extraterrestrial' seems unclear. I don't mean to go all 'Von Daniken' on you, but do consider that as a possibility?

First book I read on 'esoteric' subjects was 'chariots of the gods' when I was a teenager, and it changed my world view.

I was abducted by 'aliens' as a child. Several times. However, I don't think they are from another planet, I think they are extra-dimensional. In other words, they operate in more than the 4 dimensions that we enjoy. As you might have heard, Quantum physics (and certain old Rabbi's who analyzed the TORA) has determined that there are actually at least 10 dimensions.

I highly recommend that you listen to all five of these radio shows;

http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP052/



You mentioned Chernobyl...again...how do you know that? Is Chernobyl mentioned by name in the Scriptures?

The short answer is; Chernobyl is the Ukrainian word for 'mugwort' which is very synonymous with 'wormwood', and the events of The Revelation 8:10 and 11 are a technically accurate description of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

Rev 8:10 and 11

"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

People have tried to dismiss this for a couple of reasons; one is the description of the 'star' 'falling from heaven'. However, the word translated 'heaven' is actually the Greek word 'oranos' which comes from the root word 'oro' which means 'mountain'. The word might better be translated 'elevated place' because elevation is implied as well as altitude.

It seems that the Chernobyl plant was in an unusual configuration with the reactor near the top of a big building. When that thing went China Syndrome, it literally fell from an elevated place, and wound up in the European water table, causing the cases of cancers related to radiation contamination to soar in the areas downstream from the disaster. So, it did literally 'fall upon a third part of the waters, and the fountains of waters'. I mean, with the half life of these materials in the tens of thousands of years, it's not at all unreasonable to assume that they may eventually contaminate 'a third of the waters'.

And 'fire and brimstone': that could be taken to mean nuclear detonation, but couldn't it also mean volcanic eruption?


A rain of fire and brimstone might be descriptive of a volcano, but it's also very descriptive of the effects of a near-surface nuclear blast. And there is nothing in nature anywhere near the horrors of the last chapter of Zechariah, although they're an exact description of the effects of a neutron weapon (which the Israelis do have);


Zec 14:12

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

If you read it in context, it's clear that it's talking about the 'latter days'




What would be the point or meaning of prophesy other than to indicate future events with lucidity? If you can see the future, wouldn't it be sensible to simply describe it in terms that could be readily understood by the reader?

Why the enigma...the mystery? What purpose does this serve? I'm not talking about Madame Sosostris here; if prophesy occurs within the Holy Scriptures...God's revelation to Man...what is the point of the vagary?

You know, you're not the first person to ever ask this question, :)

I think that the real point of prophecy is to validate God's word. If history is written before it occurs, perhaps you can trust other parts of the Bible that seem outlandish.

The vagary is part of the grand plan, it seems. Life is a school and a test that not all pass. Read the parables of Jesus, particularly the ones about 'The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who planted a field' and such.
 
Last edited:

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Wow.

I must compliment you on your courage and integrity. Being able to adjust your opinion with the introduction of new data is what I consider real freedom to be. People with this ability seem to be very rare, from my experience.

And 'wow' to you too! I think your assessment may be a trifle generous, but that notwithstanding, a nice compliment. Thank you. :)



First book I read on 'esoteric' subjects was 'chariots of the gods' when I was a teenager, and it changed my world view.

I was abducted by 'aliens' as a child. Several times. However, I don't think they are from another planet, I think they are extra-dimensional. In other words, they operate in more than the 4 dimensions that we enjoy. As you might have heard, Quantum physics (and certain old Rabbi's who analyzed the TORA) has determined that there are actually at least 10 dimensions.

I highly recommend that you listen to all five of these radio shows;

http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP052/


Have listened to the first, will continue with the rest. I'm aware of the 'Nephilim' from other sources.


The short answer is; Chernobyl is the Ukrainian word for 'mugwort' which is very synonymous with 'wormwood', and the events of The Revelation 8:10 and 11 are a technically accurate description of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

Rev 8:10 and 11

"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

People have tried to dismiss this for a couple of reasons; one is the description of the 'star' 'falling from heaven'. However, the word translated 'heaven' is actually the Greek word 'oranos' which comes from the root word 'oro' which means 'mountain'. The word might better be translated 'elevated place' because elevation is implied as well as altitude.

It seems that the Chernobyl plant was in an unusual configuration with the reactor near the top of a big building. When that thing went China Syndrome, it literally fell from an elevated place, and wound up in the European water table, causing the cases of cancers related to radiation contamination to soar in the areas downstream from the disaster. So, it did literally 'fall upon a third part of the waters, and the fountains of waters'. I mean, with the half life of these materials in the tens of thousands of years, it's not at all unreasonable to assume that they may eventually contaminate 'a third of the waters'.



A rain of fire and brimstone might be descriptive of a volcano, but it's also very descriptive of the effects of a near-surface nuclear blast. And there is nothing in nature anywhere near the horrors of the last chapter of Zechariah, although they're an exact description of the effects of a neutron weapon (which the Israelis do have);


Zec 14:12

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

If you read it in context, it's clear that it's talking about the 'latter days'




You know, you're not the first person to ever ask this question, :)

I think that the real point of prophecy is to validate God's word. If history is written before it occurs, perhaps you can trust other parts of the Bible that seem outlandish.

The vagary is part of the grand plan, it seems. Life is a school and a test that not all pass. Read the parables of Jesus, particularly the ones about 'The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who planted a field' and such.

Interesting stuff; there's an awful lot there which makes it difficult to comment on thus far. Duly noted though! Thanks for the Biblical references.

Cheers, M :)
 
Top