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Featured An email from Debbie Cook to active Scientologists

Discussion in 'Debbie Cook' started by Emma, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Debbie & Wayne are quietly talking & working with people that have their best interests in mind. Don't expect any public revelations until after the Feb. 9 hearing.
  2. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    What Feb 9 hearing?

    (sorry if I missed something someone posted....)
  3. Stat

    Stat Gold Meritorious Patron

    Time does tell. She's being sued by Cof$ nao.

    More publicity, exposure, critical thinking and hilarity ensues.

    Good move, DM. :thumbsup::thumbsup: :biggrin:
  4. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron

  5. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    Debbie's email isn't a normal thing Scientologists would do amongst themselves.

    It is implied criticism of top management for focusing on the donations for the buildings and to IAS, as opposed to focusing instead on people's Bridge to Total Freedom progress.

    When LRH was alive, people would have written these types of complaints straight to LRH.

    They would NOT have been pounced on, when LRH was alive.

    So Debbie's writing this email, is sort of like sharing her letter to LRH, were LRH alive.

    When LRH was alive, the SO #1 unit was a team of people who answered his letters like he wished them to be answered, and in the early years of the SO#1 Unit, they got their letters group signed by LRH, and in later years people were trained to sign for LRH, and signed for him, but the letters still did go to where he was, and whether he read them or not, it's likely he didn't read every single letter sent to him, but he trusted his SO #1 Unit people to do the proper responses. (I found all this out, like we all have, by talking to former Commodore's Messengers and to former SO#1 Unit personnel, and it's been common history knowledge for several decades now, this isn't new info at all.)

    Anyways, in the milder days of the mid 1970s or earlier, one could gripe to LRH using the SO#1 line.

    Executive Director International was given the "hat" to have a letter communication line and LRH intended ED Int to do this function today.

    Part of that straight line from the followers was to field the gripes, and investigate the gripes and handle the gripes per policy.

    At worst, Debbie's letter is a summary of probably the untold feelings of thousands of Scientologists these last 10-15 years, as followers have built up these complaints that Debbie is airing in this group sent email.

    To sue her for violation of her non-disclosure agreement, no way would L. Ron Hubbard order that on Debbie for having the gumption to just tell it like it is.

    The Hubbard compassion, is absolutely gone.

    Debbie's email I categorize historically as in the same order of magnitude as a gripe letter that the old SO#1 Unit got, when L. Ron Hubbard was alive.

    Hubbard would NOT have let things go so badly, that an ex Commanding Officer of the Flag Service Org had to write a group email like this.

    Hubbard, as bad as he is in all directions, would have heard these complaints years ago, and done something else, likely rather than shoot the letter writer, like official Scientology is doing.

    At this point, Debbie's on a slow trajectory into the freezone camp, because if she wins the case, she's absolutely gonna be demonized and gone after again and again. If she loses, and goes quietly into oblivion that would be Scientology's preference, but likely that will drive her into the same conclusions as the new independent Scientologists. You can't fight city hall type attitude, with the current people in charge of city hall.

    This being a religion, where no one can challenge the top banana, the rotten top banana calls the shots for the members, unfortunately, and the top banana takes the gripe letters as ground for excommunicating the people who gripe.

    Losing the "gripe" line, which was part of the SO#1 line, how that's just worthless today, is a dull detail in this all, but if one were to take ALL of what Hubbard wrote for them, it's clear Debbie is fundamentally more in the rights, she represents more what the members USED to have as members' rights, namely to gripe to LRH on the SO#1 line.

    The Scientology "Complaints Box" line, is more "Here I am, I'm bad, declare me" line.
  6. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    I've written a few post about my firsthand knowledge of the SO #1 Line, how it functioned and what purpose it served. I'm not gonna repeat all that here and I've never been able to get the search function to work for me since the Board software was changed so I'm not providing any links.

    Overall, your summation is accurate and you bring to the fore an insightful "angle" on the Debbie Cook "Story". However the "LRH Compassion" that you refer to was a ruse. As far as the "pouncing" probably not overtly. But, their name, position and nature of complaint, etc. would have been noted, added to the cross-indexing and, depending on the circumstances and El Ron's mood du jour, "quiet" investigations done, reports written, etc.

    The SO #1 Line was an effective tool to keep the natives calm and detect stuff in the bud, but it and El Ron was neither benign nor as proactive or responsive in actions as your post appears to me to be saying. The Cadet Orgs are one was well established from SO #1 letters that the Cadet Orgs were in deplorable condition...those conditions remained unchanged overall throughout the years the SO #1 Line existed.

    Face :)
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  7. wazn

    wazn Patron with Honors

    i don't mean this as a derail to the gist of your post, which I understand to be that DM has perverted and/or destroyed the one line that did exist (without serious reprecussion) for bitching. And, I would add that by in large, the bitching on the SO#1 line was not unfounded and was many times a last resort for a situation that was not being handled. True, that line is dead and gone.

    However, I take issue with this line:
    If there was such a thing as "Hubbard compassion", it was dead and gone long before he was.
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Are you talking about the same Hubbard who gloated over the assassination of John F. Kennedy in the PR piece 'What is Greatness?' at the same time that he started the Guardians Office to covertly apply his Fair Game Law, which instructed to trick, sue, lie, and destroy; who declared the World's First Real Clear and Pope of Scientology, John McMaster, an enemy of life, the universe, and all Mankind; who ordered the looting of the Missions, and who fired his personal auditor and Class XII Senior C/S International, David Mayo, and ordered that Mayo be kidnapped and brought to the desert where he was C/Sed (by Hubbard) to run around a palm tree?

    This is the chubby guy with the graying red hair and rubbery lips, right?
  9. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, re: the "pouncing"...I said "probably not overtly". However, just as my example re: the Cadet Org I do know for a fact that a highly trained Snr C/S in a Service Org was instantly removed from post by El Ron in the '70's stemming from three SO #1 letters.

    Also, stuff from SO #1 letters was often filtered down to senior "management" and added to Org data files and, although not directly by El Ron, sometimes be acted on in one form or another.

    Face :)
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  10. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    Noted. But I offer you waste about 1 hour and thumb through the LRH ED packs.

    There you see the 1 year expiration "orders" and a whole more "pilot" like time frame attitude of LRH. He could be playful, at times.

    I'd agree, the whole net effect of his whole output, even after extensive book length dissections of everything he wrote, is that it's much easier to scapegoat, and essentially the biggest single complaint I have, is he's a chronic scapegoating leader. (Proof: He'd not have thrown every exec in the history of the movement under the bus, including his wife, and he'd NOT have left Miscavige/Yager/et al with the big pat on the head that they were "steel" tough leaders, and all the chrome hard BS adjectives he used for RTC.)

    Naw he was evil a big part of his heart, but he's more benevolent, I notice, as OEC super, we did a "quickie" Briefing Course once, compiled by Greg Wilhere, in a minute segment of time when Greg was busted to every lower post, ended up as a Deputy Tech Aide in the Flag Bu, just before the Int Training Org formed. Linda Martiniano will remember this. And Greg put together a non-stat pushing quickie course called the "Special Flag Executive Briefing Course" (SFEBC, was it's nickname, and we only did it on less than 12 execs from outer orgs).

    BUT, I noticed that the SFEBC (you can imagine it's demise, it's title is a "Tech Degrade", sheesh, some people winced when Greg got in trouble eventually for this one), but the SFEBC course cherry picked the more benevolent early 1960s exec PLs, before the harsher 1965 KSW and heavy ethics exec policies.

    And Greg focused the drills on a couple of benevolent exec actions. Personally, even though it was a quickie FEBC, it produced more benevolent execs.

    I saw it, and never forgot this.

    When I went to go do the compilations project to rewrite the OEC (green volumes course) checksheet, in 1988, I had that in mind.

    I realized the power that the person writing the checksheets has, for culling WHICH LRH data to focus on and make drills for the trainees.

    The shit Hubbard BS policy just needs to NOT be focused on, is my "reasonable" hindsight views, and be sure to grade ALL of his earlier orders/policy against sanity, and just do the more benevolent, even though I agree with you, the man himself was only capable of benevolence in tiny spurts, but at least it was there those moments.

    I'm forever in the picking the raisins out of the Hubbard turds category, since my most productive years I spent inside the cult, was doing just that. And that's the "case" I still have to lose.

    This Debbie email, it's just brought to mind that whole inclination for the raisin picking out of the Hubbard shitola.

    There's enough that he wrote, that people who didn't get his ugly behavior directly in their lives, and who just read his works, they'll likely be raisin pickers also. Especially if they're hopeful it will all comeout right in the end, like a good movie.

    Hubbard wrote his Scientology movement sort of in his writer style, and when Hubbard said, which he said over and over, "Keep the show on the road", that was really a deep Freudian slip on his part, I feel today as my final grade for him.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology':

    "...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..."
  12. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    And "there is no hidden data line," and "all policy is in the Green Volumes," etc.

    Scientology has always operated as a criminal conspiracy. It was designed that way, with an entire class of well meaning dupes used as oil in the machine. That's the harsh truth.
  13. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    Thanks for the suggestion but I’m gonna take a pass on the LRH Ed’s. I guess you haven’t read any of my stuff on ESMB or you wouldn’t have suggested I do that.

    I’ve listened to well over 500 “Tech & Admin Tapes” and some Confidential and Highly Confidential “Flag Only” taped briefings, etc. and read every HCOB, HCOPL, PAB and Book and over half of El Ron’s fiction. I’ve read over half the CBO’s, COLRED’s, LRHED’s, FO’s Etc. I’m just not up for spending one more minute of my life reading Hisself’s stuff.

    I’ve posted thousands upon thousands of words here picking apart, analyzing and detailing El Ron’s “Green Tech”, what I see as “wrong” and F’d up with it and also from where and whom Hisself “burrowed” some of the “Breakthroughs” from and how it was bastardized.

    Yes El Ron could be playful…I saw that with my own eyes…so could Capone and Hitler. With those same eyes I also saw Hisself do stuff to others that still makes me sick to my stomach...some of which I've written about on this Board.

    I’m not trying to give you a hard time and I know that you are an important Persona in the Critic scene and that your contributions in that stead far exceed mine. I guess I’m just over reacting to what looked to me like as though you were painting El Ron and Hisself’s "stuff" in a different hue than I, having personally interacted with Hisself, would choose.

    It is my opinion that a fair amount of El Ron’s “Admin” writing was for PR purposes and done simply for the fact that that is what Hisself did…write fiction….much of it based upon stuff that was “inspired” by others.

    Peace. :)

    Face :)
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  14. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud


    What was it P.T. Barnum said ? :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
  15. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    All your points and posts well taken, and if you saw Hubbard upclose, you have it over me, since all I saw was those who saw him upclose, and they all were guarded and self muzzled and had a sort of hidden masked terror of his unpredictableness that increased the longer they were close to him.

    I think LRH wrote so much, and stuck with his con long enough to make it somewhat effective in keeping people involved long enough, so that when they quit, he had enough new ones coming in the door to replace the quitters.

    And that's all I think he's perfected. Sort of a new great con religion, that doesn't piss off everyone the first day, just takes varying times to burn the customers, and some go out from official movement and do the exorcism willingly for cheap and even free on each other.

    I most had to do with the staff, the ones suckered into "holding the fort" and my years as course sup made me sympathize with the "workers" and staff, the ones who were there when the execs got bounced off post and were left "doing what Ron said" in the staff writings, which in the end of the day, is just where all my attention was put, in my most productive years in the cult.

    SO his staff writings are my prejudice and zone of fixed ideas, that's all.

    I most love the LRH stories that bring Hubbard permanently down to size, like Hubbard gloating over that incident when he ordered the elderly Sea Org Apollo member to push the pea around the wooden deck with his nose, and dozens of staff and the man's children and wife watching (and her crying). That sticks in my mind, that's L. Ron Hubbard.

    But his word on paper, I saw staff find comfort (false, I'll admit) in his writings that somehow made it all make sense to them, whatever uproar was happening in their staff areas.

    I'm just prejudiced to the effects of his policy (staff writings of all types) on the staff, is all. Sorry.
  16. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    I agree with that.

    And the bottom line, was "there are no OTs, not anywhere, not a one" love that anonymous song that was made a couple years ago.

    To me, no OTs equals fraud since Hubbard promises OTs, and there are no OTs.

    Case closed. Don't join, don't even read a single Hubbard book, spend your time elsewhere in life.
  17. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    Back to Debbie Cook, were I to protest in CW, my sign would be:

    "Sue David Miscavige, not Debbie Cook"


    "Sue the dwarf, not the Cook:"
  18. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hey, we cool Bro'...we like da Fonze. :coolwink:

    Your "Take" is probably more universally understandably than mine. Due to the serendipitous happenstance of Living, I've got an up close and personal "jaundiced eye" that most Exes don't have.

    Your comment re: "comfort" is simply excellent. I too took "comfort" in El Ron's writings...a comfort that slowly, incessantly and permanently eroded as the time passed in personal interaction with Hisself.

    In retrospect, I think that this comfort was predicated, in part, because on the fact that I had a huge "win" in my very early auditing, a "win" that was never even approximated again and anumber of sessions were quite the opposite, a "win" that predisposed me to, for some years, "buy" into El Ron's Scn fiction and the fiction of Hisself's "Source-ness" and keep on "trying", a "win" that, come what came, was part of My Path.

    Peace. :yes:

    Face :)

    PS: I now return this thread to its original program. :blush:
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  19. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    The Führer did not say "Baby." ?
  20. chuckbeatty

    chuckbeatty Patron with Honors

    A big win will do that, and actually it's not quite a Green Form 40 resistive case problem, but big win's can be case stoppers, but Scientology can handle that for you. (Did I just say that, I don't believe really what I just said, but that's the old Hubbard line that flew from brain to my mouth?).

    Hey, have you seen them touring with the "One Was Stubborn" Hubbard "Classic Fiction Story" they do these touring readings of one or another of his pulp stories, Galaxy Press (sub unit of Bridge Publications) is doing it. I read an ad poster advertising readings of this sci fi book, and the LRH quote in the ad, is another HUGE Freudian slip on their part, a comical statement.

    The quote from Hubbard about "One Was Stubborn" he says:

    "...terrific application of what we're doing right this minute....." (LRH, from one of the PDC tapes, like 1952)

    But the story is about a con man cult leader, hoodwinking the whole planet, and one retired farmer is the "stubborn" person resisting the cult leader.

    I thought, was this a Freudian slip on his part, and he was refering really to the cult leader!