An email from Debbie Cook to active Scientologists

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Post Debbie's email, One thing I've noticed is that 2 very good friends who seemed to have never stopped drinking the koolaid and loving LRH have, on their own, just up and said they are " distancing themself from the orgs because the SO staff has gotten so young, so out of touch, and is so unhatted they can't deal with it anymore".

Could have blown me over with a feather. These two are dyed in the wool don't know each other and for each one to come to me and and just drop that in a conversation.....unheard of. People I've known over 30 years that never said a word are now seeing some chinks?

I'm happy.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
---snipped---
And Greg focused the drills on a couple of benevolent exec actions. Personally, even though it was a quickie FEBC, it produced more benevolent execs.I saw it, and never forgot this.When I went to go do the compilations project to rewrite the OEC (green volumes course) checksheet, in 1988, I had that in mind. I realized the power that the person writing the checksheets has, for culling WHICH LRH data to focus on and make drills for the trainees. The shit Hubbard BS policy just needs to NOT be focused on, is my "reasonable" hindsight views, and be sure to grade ALL of his earlier orders/policy against sanity, and just do the more benevolent, even though I agree with you, the man himself was only capable of benevolence in tiny spurts, but at least it was there those moments.

I'm forever in the picking the raisins out of the Hubbard turds category, since my most productive years I spent inside the cult, was doing just that. And that's the "case" I still have to lose.

This Debbie email, it's just brought to mind that whole inclination for the raisin picking out of the Hubbard shitola.

There's enough that he wrote, that people who didn't get his ugly behavior directly in their lives, and who just read his works, they'll likely be raisin pickers also. Especially if they're hopeful it will all comeout right in the end, like a good movie.



Wasn't Marty Rathbun the Inspector General of RTC?

Now I finally know what he was/is inspecting for. . .

RTC

Raisinpicker Technology Center

 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Post Debbie's email, One thing I've noticed is that 2 very good friends who seemed to have never stopped drinking the koolaid and loving LRH have, on their own, just up and said they are " distancing themself from the orgs because the SO staff has gotten so young, so out of touch, and is so unhatted they can't deal with it anymore".

Could have blown me over with a feather. These two are dyed in the wool don't know each other and for each one to come to me and and just drop that in a conversation.....unheard of. People I've known over 30 years that never said a word are now seeing some chinks?

I'm happy.

Yea, good news.

My list of 8 people who I searched around newly to find still Debbie's friends, dropped to 7 today.

But of the 7 still Debbie's friends on Facebook, 5 were ex FSO or higher es SO staff.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Wasn't Marty Rathbun the Inspector General of RTC?

Now I finally know what he was/is inspecting for. . .

RTC

Raisinpicker Technology Center


Well, I've also learned (from a former ex Sea Org member who does excellent radio interviews, Tom Smith, his last week's guest is a research psychotherapist Univ of Wisconsin) that psychotherapy can prove effective for certain fundamental reasons still being researched (but it doesn't have to do with Xenu's fallout he's left here on earth of the mega billions of "body thetans" now attached to our bodies, although I can't deny people getting better from the body thetan exorcism either, but it's likely for some fundamental psychological/social reasons and not actual body thetans leaking their cases into our cases).

I'm super open minded so there's obviously some reason, more likely along the lines of what this psychologist is researching, for why Hubbard's psychotherapy sometimes works on Scientology patients. See Tom's blog and other shows, he's had some good experts on his shows.

http://exscnforum.com/index.php/top...d-why-of-psychotherapy-with-dr-bruce-wampold/

Not the type of acknowledgement Scientology is going to put on their promo, but I believe in psych researchers who research their own psychotherapies.
 

wazn

Patron with Honors
snippety, snip...

I most had to do with the staff, the ones suckered into "holding the fort" and my years as course sup made me sympathize with the "workers" and staff, the ones who were there when the execs got bounced off post and were left "doing what Ron said" in the staff writings, which in the end of the day, is just where all my attention was put, in my most productive years in the cult.

SO his staff writings are my prejudice and zone of fixed ideas, that's all.

...Sorry...

Chuck, you were an awesome SO member. You never totally lost your heart and soul and you gave a shit about the rest of us while still going about the insanity that was being a good SO member.

Makes me cringe and feel sad and frustrated when I think the rose colored glasses are on any of us x's, including myself.

And with no reference to you, it makes me angry when others are holding the glasses in place! A number of posts back Smurf referred to Debbie working with people who have her best interests in mind. Certainly hope that is reference to her attorney, not the indie ringleaders.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
Chuck, you were an awesome SO member. You never totally lost your heart and soul and you gave a shit about the rest of us while still going about the insanity that was being a good SO member.

Makes me cringe and feel sad and frustrated when I think the rose colored glasses are on any of us x's, including myself.

And with no reference to you, it makes me angry when others are holding the glasses in place! A number of posts back Smurf referred to Debbie working with people who have her best interests in mind. Certainly hope that is reference to her attorney, not the indie ringleaders.

I think you're right, the tinted glasses don't come off some people, and there's too many of us, me included, who take years to get rid of the glasses and filters and of course Debbie herself, my take on her is she's even MORE with the rose glasses. And all us glasses wearers influence each other, and also, it's really to what degree Hubbard is sitting in your head telling you what to think, because his think has become your think, and you can't even tell it's his thinking for you.

Debbie's really more faithful to LRH than DM, so these others who might help her, right now, really, she's more true to the whole big Scientology machine, I take her email at face value. She's for reform and reviving the whole big setup, and that means that the Save Scientology site people are more her group if anyone.

Too much, I have to take a break.

Sorry for being such a blabbermouth.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I really do understand some are still very loyal to LRH ( some of my "in" friends ) and not happy with the midget, or, at least what the midget is doing. That is very thick rose colored glasses as they still stand "in" the group.

Some after they leave have those thick rose colored glasses start to dissipate as they learn the truth about LRH, the truth about the claims, and that most of tek, uh, ain't tek of any sort. Faster for some than others.

But, those who have been out for many years and still can't talk without the cult jargon ( claim, Dear Gawd, they 'think'with it ::barf:: ) and they still have high praise for the "religion" of scn ?

Of course, they are entitled to their choice, but, they don't mean it ain't more than minorly ass chapping to some :)

Night all.
 
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Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
And all us glasses wearers influence each other, and also, it's really to what degree Hubbard is sitting in your head telling you what to think, because his think has become your think, and you can't even tell it's his thinking for you.

Actually I think that's one of the biggest things that makes the scam work. Some talk about TR's or E-Meter voltage releasing endorphins or whatever, I think there is no magic to it. I think once you build a group that follows certain rules, you can gradually take a person in and get them to change to types of behavior that is extremely different from how they ever acted before. It's a barrage of lies, discipline that gets harsher and harsher, and as well the display of "OTs" who you believe when they tell you it's all "worth it".
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax!
Wasn't Marty Rathbun the Inspector General of RTC?

Now I finally know what he was/is inspecting for. . .

RTC

Raisinpicker Technology Center



Well, I've also learned (from a former ex Sea Org member who does excellent radio interviews, Tom Smith, his last week's guest is a research psychotherapist Univ of Wisconsin) that psychotherapy can prove effective for certain fundamental reasons still being researched (but it doesn't have to do with Xenu's fallout he's left here on earth of the mega billions of "body thetans" now attached to our bodies, although I can't deny people getting better from the body thetan exorcism either, but it's likely for some fundamental psychological/social reasons and not actual body thetans leaking their cases into our cases).I'm super open minded so there's obviously some reason, more likely along the lines of what this psychologist is researching, for why Hubbard's psychotherapy sometimes works on Scientology patients.


Terrific interview, very informative, thanks!

Particularly fascinating was the scientific proof that a therapy's technique is minimally as important as other factors in patient results. The studies evidence the compelling factors are the therapist's interpersonal skills, buoyancy of spirit, indoctrinating the patient what to expect and their faith, expectation and agreement (placebo) that the therapy will make them better.

As we know all too well, Scientology abounds with cheery r-factors, indoc and agreement. However, the problem with bridge-therapy is that while it may temporarily give a positive effect in one area, it often is quite destructive to other areas of the person's real everyday life. Witness a pc having huge wins in session who is simultaneously suffering financial ruin and bankruptcy due to having paid for those wins.

Perhaps even worse is that for Scientology to "work" one must suspend Reason. That is why the most feared and reviled enemy of a Scientologist is a "Reasonable" person.

As an Ex-Scientologist, my enemy is therefore a "Raisinable" person (literally one who is able to pick raisins).

I guess this explains why I post so much on ESMB. It's my Raisin D'être.
 

wazn

Patron with Honors
Actually I think that's one of the biggest things that makes the scam work. Some talk about TR's or E-Meter voltage releasing endorphins or whatever, I think there is no magic to it. I think once you build a group that follows certain rules, you can gradually take a person in and get them to change to types of behavior that is extremely different from how they ever acted before. It's a barrage of lies, discipline that gets harsher and harsher, and as well the display of "OTs" who you believe when they tell you it's all "worth it".

I agree. And, when I started in scientology there wasn't an internet and I had no reason to disbelieve Hubbard when he claimed PhD's, military honors and the like - all "facts" used to substantiate his BS.

A few years back Dennis Erlich helped me look at "locus of control" and how I had as a scientologist shifted my locus of control from internal to external. That, the internet, and looking at things like the Stanford Prison Experiment, and KSW -lol - have helped me shed the glasses.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I really do understand some are still very loyal to LRH ( some of my "in" friends ) and not happy with the midget, or, at least what the midget is doing. That is very thick rose colored glasses as they still stand "in" the group. Some after they leave have those thick rose colored glasses start to dissipate as they learn the truth about LRH, the truth about the claims, and that most of tek, uh, ain't tek of any sort. Faster for some than others. But, those who have been out for many years and still can't talk without the cult jargon ( claim, Dear Gawd, they 'think'with it ::barf:: ) and they still have high praise for the "religion" of scn ? Of course, they are entitled to their choice, but, they don't mean it ain't more than minorly ass chapping to some :)Night all.

It doesn't make sense.

But for a Scientologist it makes perfect sense.

Because they are practicing Blame-ology, a tech much loved & practiced by the founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

The basic theory of Blame-ology is that anyone and everyone can, should and must be blamed for anything bad that happens, except L. Ron Hubbard.

Indies are "wearing Ron's hat" and blaming COB.

It's tech.

It works.

It explains why things are not going so well in Scientology.
 

chuckbeatty

Patron with Honors
[/center]






Terrific interview, very informative, thanks!

Particularly fascinating was the scientific proof that a therapy's technique is minimally as important as other factors in patient results. The studies evidence the compelling factors are the therapist's interpersonal skills, buoyancy of spirit, indoctrinating the patient what to expect and their faith, expectation and agreement (placebo) that the therapy will make them better.

As we know all too well, Scientology abounds with cheery r-factors, indoc and agreement. However, the problem with bridge-therapy is that while it may temporarily give a positive effect in one area, it often is quite destructive to other areas of the person's real everyday life. Witness a pc having huge wins in session who is simultaneously suffering financial ruin and bankruptcy due to having paid for those wins.

Perhaps even worse is that for Scientology to "work" one must suspend Reason. That is why the most feared and reviled enemy of a Scientologist is a "Reasonable" person.

As an Ex-Scientologist, my enemy is therefore a "Raisinable" person (literally one who is able to pick raisins).

I guess this explains why I post so much on ESMB. It's my Raisin D'être.

Ha, superlatively devilishly suppressively raisinable!
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
A big win will do that, and actually it's not quite a Green Form 40 resistive case problem, but big win's can be case stoppers, but Scientology can handle that for you. (Did I just say that, I don't believe really what I just said, but that's the old Hubbard line that flew from brain to my mouth?).
Chuck, you've been nipping on that cool-aid again. :naughty:
Hey, have you seen them touring with the "One Was Stubborn" Hubbard "Classic Fiction Story" they do these touring readings of one or another of his pulp stories, Galaxy Press (sub unit of Bridge Publications) is doing it. I read an ad poster advertising readings of this sci fi book, and the LRH quote in the ad, is another HUGE Freudian slip on their part, a comical statement.


The quote from Hubbard about "One Was Stubborn" he says:


"...terrific application of what we're doing right this minute....." (LRH, from one of the PDC tapes, like 1952)


But the story is about a con man cult leader, hoodwinking the whole planet, and one retired farmer is the "stubborn" person resisting the cult leader.

I thought, was this a Freudian slip on his part, and he was refering really to the cult leader!

There are quite a few quotes here and there where Hubbard actually states exactly what he is doing. And the audience always laughs. :confused2:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Post Debbie's email, One thing I've noticed is that 2 very good friends who seemed to have never stopped drinking the koolaid and loving LRH have, on their own, just up and said they are " distancing themself from the orgs because the SO staff has gotten so young, so out of touch, and is so unhatted they can't deal with it anymore".

Could have blown me over with a feather. These two are dyed in the wool don't know each other and for each one to come to me and and just drop that in a conversation.....unheard of. People I've known over 30 years that never said a word are now seeing some chinks?

I'm happy.

That is such very, very good news. :hifive:
:buzzin:
:cheerleader:

I hope that is reflected in lots of other die hard Scinos. Those left in are mostly lifers who have already given up everything and are so institutionalized that they just can't think outside the box at all.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
It doesn't make sense.

But for a Scientologist it makes perfect sense.

Because they are practicing Blame-ology, a tech much loved & practiced by the founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

The basic theory of Blame-ology is that anyone and everyone can, should and must be blamed for anything bad that happens, except L. Ron Hubbard.

Indies are "wearing Ron's hat" and blaming COB.

It's tech.

It works.

It explains why things are not going so well in Scientology.

...anything bad that happened to the PC was insignificant, earned and of no concern...anything bad that happened to the SP was huge, unearned and can never be remedied...

Something along those lines - dontcha remember the policy?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I admire and like Karen but always felt she was here 'on a Marty mission' to handle us or at least keep us as quiet as possible, impossible as that would always have been.

If involved (and I think she is) she would have known exactly when this was all going to hit the fan and she needed to distance herself from ESMB at exactly the right moment (about a month ago).

Debbie has not done this alone ... Marty and Mike are looming and Martys 'prepare to deliver' thingy at the end of his announcement about Debbie's email was meant to be cryptic IMO and most of all meant to infuriate the dwarf, who must surely be aware that his days are numbered, and Marty would want him as introverted as possible and constantly looking over his shoulder (and up!) for his arrival, which will be staged right at the end of the whole ambush.

:yes:


I know it's really crass to quote oneself (the above posted on 2nd January 2012) but I really can't keep retyping what I think is the bleeding obvious and I would hate to think we are being manipulated slightly here at ESMB.

M and M ... they iz running this op.

This 'war' is really heating up now and the very last thing I want to see is the little bad guy (Miscavige) removed from the picture to be replaced by a cuddly version.

Anyone that is still a scientologist, is still a scientologist!

The cofs needs to be disbanded and just because things are warming up and many of us (including M and M) would love to see the dwarf hauled off (or be tripped ingloriously from his self made throne) is not a good reason to go all gooey over Debbie Cook.

Now would be the time to go in harder.

I was carefully told (before the trial) by someone that apparently knows, that Debbie is not in league with M and M, which (of course) just further convinced me that she is, though we may never know the truth ...

:whistling:

I would protect, defend and even financially support Debbie as a human being ... but I will do none of the above for a person that is ultimately just trying to save the cofs.

A quick word on Fibrositis (Fibromyalgia) ... as La la lou lou has stated this illness is very real and is completely debilitating (I know this because I was diagnosed with it myself after finally staggering to a doctor and admitting to the state I was then in).

There are no tests for it (apart from those done to exclude other possible diagnosis) and the main treatment is to reduce stress and increase exercise, nutrition and for some, certain drugs and treatments can help. The main ones offered are antidepressants (and nerve blockers, cortisone and muscle relaxants).

Reduction of stress really helps.

I doubt that taking on the cofs (alone) would.

I have no reason to believe that Debbie does not have fibromyalgia and it would be the perfect thing to have, if wanting to get fitness boarded out of the SO.

:whistling:

I know this sounds mean spirited but seriously, Miscavige is currently on the back foot and the cofs is severely damaged as a brand ... this is the time to stick the boot in further, not to go all soppy.

Just a thought.​
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Someone's bankrolling this for Debbie and M&M seem the logical ones.

Karen, I think, is out for revenge on her own terms and I don't blame her.

Marty wants to take the whole thing over. I don't know if Mike wants to be in a power struggle with Marty, since they seem to cooperate. Debbie might, though.

In short, I think that once the Dwarf is dispatched there will be a rather bloody succession crisis, providing ample entertainment for ESMB. Given the Co$'s tarnished reputation, I doubt it will survive. Most cults don't survive these things.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I know it's really crass to quote oneself (the above posted on 2nd January 2012) but I really can't keep retyping what I think is the bleeding obvious and I would hate to think we are being manipulated slightly here at ESMB.

M and M ... they iz running this op.

This 'war' is really heating up now and the very last thing I want to see is the little bad guy (Miscavige) removed from the picture to be replaced by a cuddly version.

Anyone that is still a scientologist, is still a scientologist!

The cofs needs to be disbanded and just because things are warming up and many of us (including M and M) would love to see the dwarf hauled off (or be tripped ingloriously from his self made throne) is not a good reason to go all gooey over Debbie Cook.

Now would be the time to go in harder.

I was carefully told (before the trial) by someone that apparently knows, that Debbie is not in league with M and M, which (of course) just further convinced me that she is, though we may never know the truth ...

:whistling:

I would protect, defend and even financially support Debbie as a human being ... but I will do none of the above for a person that is ultimately just trying to save the cofs.

A quick word on Fibrositis (Fibromyalgia) ... as La la lou lou has stated this illness is very real and is completely debilitating (I know this because I was diagnosed with it myself after finally staggering to a doctor and admitting to the state I was then in).

There are no tests for it (apart from those done to exclude other possible diagnosis) and the main treatment is to reduce stress and increase exercise, nutrition and for some, certain drugs and treatments can help. The main ones offered are antidepressants (and nerve blockers, cortisone and muscle relaxants).

Reduction of stress really helps.

I doubt that taking on the cofs (alone) would.

I have no reason to believe that Debbie does not have fibromyalgia and it would be the perfect thing to have, if wanting to get fitness boarded out of the SO.

:whistling:

I know this sounds mean spirited but seriously, Miscavige is currently on the back foot and the cofs is severely damaged as a brand ... this is the time to stick the boot in further, not to go all soppy.

Just a thought.​

And an interesting thought it is too.

I've swung around to your idea that the M&M Show, including Karen, are thick as thieves with Debbie on this op. Earlier, I had assumed that Debbie sent out only a few of the New Year's Eve emails and that someone in the Indie Dependents got hold of it and organised for it to be mass pooned. But getting the email as widely distributed as possible while leaving the impression that Debbie had "clean hands" in that action, could easily have been part of the scheme all along.

An alternative sheet of tinfoil I've heard is that Debbie is not (until she was forced to be) involved with the M&M Show, and all the M&M Show is interested in is exacerbating the first, alleged breach of the NDA so as to shut her up permanently further down the line. This would explain the sub-plot to forward the original email to "12,000" Scienologists in that what could have been discerned as a minor breach of the NDA is now huge. Hmmm . . . dunno.

One thing's for sure, the key protagonists in this caper are all known liars, and, yes, it may well be that we will never learn the truth. Its all this doubt which creates the vacuum for speculation. I imagine Ex-Scientologists are sick of being lied to and played for suckers, especially if its for what some self-appointed elite considers to be "the greatest good". Wogs are certainly sick of it.

I didn't know that about Fibrositis - what an awful condition. I haven't seen any DOX in regard to Debbie having it, I hope she doesn't. Fingers crossed the suggestion that she does have it was an acceptable truth put about by the cult to explain her departure.
 
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