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An Open Letter to Marty Rathbun

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Because they mistake this destructive impulse for courage, because there is a certain confidence of power in that impulse and others simply don't recognise it as evil (because they haven't seen it personally before), or because they believe the best force to fight evil is an equally evil force.



I believe Marty is actually trying to make a new life for himself, but is too chickenshit to confront this aspect of himself and the results of what he did. Whenever he gets close, he pushes it away, blocks it out, denies. He was a tool of destruction who destroyed lives for years and years! And the last time he even began to confront the effects of his actions (after the Coletto episode) he was crushed for years.

Yes, Marty/Mark fell back into the same thing again, and did even worse to others than what happened with the Colettos. (yes, Mark/Marty, I know how your ego killed Diane when you were supposed to protect her. We could forgive that years later as youthful male arrogance - but you fell into it AGAIN only WORSE)

The point of my letter is - since I KNOW he reads ESMB or asks others to do so for him - is to let him know there IS a way to completely resolve this. He still has it going on - as written by Joel Sappell in his LA Magazine article from his recent interview with Marty. He can be free of this evil/anger/rage - but he has to set aside his ego and truly want to let it go and quit admiring it in himself.

And of course, make genuine, suitable amends to those he hurt. That goes without saying. :coolwink:

The Sea Org demands that you channel and nurture your inner asshole. Marty did very very well in that. It's been successful, for him, and I can't see that he would ever acknowledge it as a flaw.

He is a trained sociopath, warped by a twisted dishonorable philosophy that reinforces that as a good thing.

This isn't some minor S.O. dweeb, this was a highly placed very successful operative. Nothing has changed and won't because Marty hasn't confronted anything he's been through as something to question and examine. He must be right (or he's been nothing at all).

Marty, you've been nothing at all.
 

ChurchOfCylontology

Patron with Honors
Interestingly Tony has just published a story suggesting Martyworld is largely a halfway house. The idea is spreading ... because it's the truth. Keep reading ESMB peoples .... continue ALL the way out.
http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/01/an...way-simi-valley-ditches-scientology-for-good/

There is a big problem with this analogy. Halfway houses combine recovery treatment with reintegration with the larger society to reduce recidivism. Marty's brand of Kool Aid is still Kool Aid and one doesn't recover from Scientology by using Scientology. Claiming that it is a halfway house is irresponsible and gives the wrong impression about the harm Scientology causes in human beings. It's a bit sad that Tony Ortega chose that analogy.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
There is a big problem with this analogy. Halfway houses combine recovery treatment with reintegration with the larger society to reduce recidivism. Marty's brand of Kool Aid is still Kool Aid and one doesn't recover from Scientology by using Scientology. Claiming that it is a halfway house is irresponsible and gives the wrong impression about the harm Scientology causes in human beings. It's a bit sad that Tony Ortega chose that analogy.

That's why I don't agree that the M&M show (or any $cio variant) is a healthy stepping stone out of the Hubbardian cultist indoctrinating mind screw and flatly refuse recommending [STRIKE]In[/STRIKE]Dependent $cientology as beneficial. It's very misleading to recommend more $cientology as a gateway to leaving $cientology, especially when Marty is hungry for followers. Kind of like telling an abused person that they haven't found the right abusive relationship yet. :duh:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Unfortunately,

Many people who don't want to give up on a pseudo ''bridge to total freedom'' utopia
need to find a specific cause on all the scam and evil of scientology
It has to be a comfortable cause wich doesn't shake up all the beleif system they adopted (EGO)

Marty offers this (convenient) solution to make all his indie followers happy
and found The '' why '' to their suffering withing the Cult.

The why of such harm and abuse ........is......apparently
tadam......

Davis Miscavige
:party:

So please take a ticket and reservation for your next scientology auditing
A new Era is rising under a new bright sun

Scientology is the cure needed to correct the misapplication of scientology
( read radical and reverse scientology )
:party:

Wow I am Keyed out :biglove:
Epic discovery!

We found the Big SP ....finally
(Ron apparently did a big Mistake - I beleive he should have choosen Marty - but he never met Marty)

Then - no abuse - no beating - no false emprisenment - no fraud - no extorsion - no disconnection
no mental torture - no polygraph - no slave labour - no human trafficking - no children abuses - no parenting rights abused
no beatings would have taken place!

Now , we might be given the gift of a reformation of $cientology
with bringing back 100% on tech - 100% on Source
KSW all the way
featuring the new leader
Marty the reformer
:horse:
who will bring ethics and justice in - love and peace!
:hysterical:

Marty's followers....
Crab Basket Syndrome ??????
:confused2:

The Truman show ????

A Koan to meditate for the independant
What's the name of a 10 years old child, who conducted a huge criminal operation (operation freakout) to torture , harass a journalist (female) in order to have her commit suicide???? What's the name of the child who uses radical scientology ????
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's why I don't agree that the M&M show (or any $cio variant) is a healthy stepping stone out of the Hubbardian cultist indoctrinating mind screw and flatly refuse recommending [STRIKE]In[/STRIKE]Dependent $cientology as beneficial. It's very misleading to recommend more $cientology as a gateway to leaving $cientology, especially when Marty is hungry for followers. Kind of like telling an abused person that they haven't found the right abusive relationship yet. :duh:

I believe that whether healthy stepping stone or not, M&M are getting $cn big shots to consider alternatives.. to look... the hardest thing to do is to get them to look. Once they will look at the net it's eventually over. I wish we had a dozen M&M's ... but perhaps their dance has been going on too long as it is time for some meat, I wish Marty would respond to my document request.
 

Gib

Crusader
I believe that whether healthy stepping stone or not, M&M are getting $cn big shots to consider alternatives.. to look... the hardest thing to do is to get them to look. Once they will look at the net it's eventually over. I wish we had a dozen M&M's ... but perhaps their dance has been going on too long as it is time for some meat, I wish Marty would respond to my document request.

I've been watching Karen#1 postings over on OCMB.

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41348&start=1335

Can you imagine this couple Juan & Elena Villarreal donating 5 million to the IAS in 2011. :melodramatic:

Jeez, I wish they would LOOK.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
There is a big problem with this analogy. Halfway houses combine recovery treatment with reintegration with the larger society to reduce recidivism. Marty's brand of Kool Aid is still Kool Aid and one doesn't recover from Scientology by using Scientology. Claiming that it is a halfway house is irresponsible and gives the wrong impression about the harm Scientology causes in human beings. It's a bit sad that Tony Ortega chose that analogy.

I admire ortega for his willingness to stand - he has proven to be a man of courage. Unfortunately the near sightedness of journalism has blinded him a little bit. He assumes that because Marty was busily stomping on people or that Debbie Cook was rapaciously rifling through peoples bank accounts that they are somehow "important". IMagine how ecastatic he would be if DM were to call him up and tell him he was ready to talk - and it would not matter what DM wanted to talk about - Tony (and any other journalist) would wet his pants at the very idea.

And that's part of the problem - and it not only applies to journalists - it applies to exes. Seriously, ask yourself about how exciting it was that Debbie Cook sent out an email!! OMG!!! And yet here on esmb (and on OCMB) we have so many people who have left Scientology and actually talked for real about it. Not just tried to make more money.

No, Marty is not a "half way house" - well not by choice anyway. He is someone who hopes to make book on the traffic is all.
 

Gib

Crusader
I admire ortega for his willingness to stand - he has proven to be a man of courage. Unfortunately the near sightedness of journalism has blinded him a little bit. He assumes that because Marty was busily stomping on people or that Debbie Cook was rapaciously rifling through peoples bank accounts that they are somehow "important". IMagine how ecastatic he would be if DM were to call him up and tell him he was ready to talk - and it would not matter what DM wanted to talk about - Tony (and any other journalist) would wet his pants at the very idea.

And that's part of the problem - and it not only applies to journalists - it applies to exes. Seriously, ask yourself about how exciting it was that Debbie Cook sent out an email!! OMG!!! And yet here on esmb (and on OCMB) we have so many people who have left Scientology and actually talked for real about it. Not just tried to make more money.

No, Marty is not a "half way house" - well not by choice anyway. He is someone who hopes to make book on the traffic is all.

All I can say it was for me. I landed on Martys place after I read the debbie cook email. Martys place got me to confirm the alter-is by DM. But I had to look further, I still had questions I needed to answer for myself. And when I looked further and found out people posting here were in fact ex staff or members and not just SP critics, why on further research here, why I landed here ultimately. So yes Martys place was a half way house for me. And I'm sure Simi Valley the same thing.

From what I have concluded. Marty's place is kind of for newcomers that joined in the 1980's period. And ESMB is communication from the prior time period of deflections. On Marty's place one hears stories of recent deflections. Here on ESMB one can hear stories of older folks who got in much prior to me. In a nutshell.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
All I can say it was for me. I landed on Martys place after I read the debbie cook email. Martys place got me to confirm the alter-is by DM. But I had to look further, I still had questions I needed to answer for myself. And when I looked further and found out people posting here were in fact ex staff or members and not just SP critics, why on further research here, why I landed here ultimately. So yes Martys place was a half way house for me. And I'm sure Simi Valley the same thing.

From what I have concluded. Marty's place is kind of for newcomers that joined in the 1980's period. And ESMB is communication from the prior time period of deflections. On Marty's place one hears stories of recent deflections. Here on ESMB one can hear stories of older folks who got in much prior to me. In a nutshell.

Thank you, Gib. I am glad that Marty is there for those wanting to leave, for those wanting to talk to someone they can trust after they get out. I know how important it was for me to have someone to meet up with, to talk with, or correspond with.

Marty is not the only one helping people out. He's one of many. It's all good!
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I believe that whether healthy stepping stone or not, M&M are getting $cn big shots to consider alternatives.. to look... the hardest thing to do is to get them to look. Once they will look at the net it's eventually over. I wish we had a dozen M&M's ... but perhaps their dance has been going on too long as it is time for some meat, I wish Marty would respond to my document request.

M$M and crew are going after the DM Cof$, the M&M crew carefully maintains El Con on a pedestal along with the cult mind set. Yes, the Indies are going after the church and that's great but it's cult vs cult, $cio vs $cio, not onion peeling. While some good may come of that, that doesn't make the Indies my friends with some implied trust or a preferred status of $cientology I would encourage anyone to partake in at M&M land as a measure of leaving the El Con mind twist. Maybe some people see M&M as the $cio lite exit, I'll put my money on ESMB and it's members any day of the week over M&M for getting people to look.
 
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Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
All I can say it was for me. I landed on Martys place after I read the debbie cook email. Martys place got me to confirm the alter-is by DM. But I had to look further, I still had questions I needed to answer for myself. And when I looked further and found out people posting here were in fact ex staff or members and not just SP critics, why on further research here, why I landed here ultimately. So yes Martys place was a half way house for me. And I'm sure Simi Valley the same thing.

From what I have concluded. Marty's place is kind of for newcomers that joined in the 1980's period. And ESMB is communication from the prior time period of deflections. On Marty's place one hears stories of recent deflections. Here on ESMB one can hear stories of older folks who got in much prior to me. In a nutshell.

Hi Gib

Hmm. Ok. so you are advancing the "it worked for me" meme?

I understand that it did - and that you benefited it from it.

So consider this - how did those of us who got out of Scientology prior to - say - 1994 - get out? we did not have the awesome value of a Marty and yet we got out - we criticized Scientology and the Sea org back in 1994.

I am not trying to beat on you ( though it may seem that way) but I am trying to shake up your critical thinking skills.

Seriously - think about it for minute - WHY DID YOU finally get out?
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi Gib

Hmm. Ok. so you are advancing the "it worked for me" meme?

I understand that it did - and that you benefited it from it.

So consider this - how did those of us who got out of Scientology prior to - say - 1994 - get out? we did not have the aweasome value of a Marty and yet we got out - we criticized Scientology and the Sea org back in 1994.

I am not trying to beat on you ( though it may seem that way) but I am trying to shake up your critical thinking skills.

Sweriously - think about it for minute - WHY DID YOU finally get out?

Why did you get out , Mick?
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Why did you get out , Mick?

The answer is in many of my posts Sharone but in order to avoid the back and forth about how I did not answer the question...

In 1982 I was declared by the Finance Police - I got a gang bang sec check from Patel and Galloway and Boyd and I was kicked out of the Sea Org for, among other things, using mission funds to buy soap.

I ended up back in the SO in 1984 (cos I am an idiot) I ended up running the IMU/IAS evolution.

During my time running that I came to realize that we had assholes running both the IMU and the CofS.

I refused (after doing the rpf for a year) to reg people fopr the IAS who were too dumb to know what they were doing.

I falsified my stats rather than do that sort of crap and I wrote up the whole scene about what was going on in scandinavia.

Miscavige disagree with my assessment and I got declared.

Hope that answers your question
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
The answer is in many of my posts Sharone but in order to avoid the back and forth about how I did not answer the question...

In 1982 I was declared by the Finance Police - I got a gang bang sec check from Patel and Galloway and Boyd and I was kicked out of the Sea Org for, among other things, using mission funds to buy soap.

I ended up back in the SO in 1984 (cos I am an idiot) I ended up running the IMU/IAS evolution.

During my time running that I came to realize that we had assholes running both the IMU and the CofS.

I refused (after doing the rpf for a year) to reg people fopr the IAS who were too dumb to know what they were doing.

I falsified my stats rather than do that sort of crap and I wrote up the whole scene about what was going on in scandinavia.

Miscavige disagree with my assessment and I got declared.

Hope that answers your question

Sorry Mick, but No it doesn't.

As far as I can make out you were arrested, along with Heber Jenschzt(spelling) in Spain, care to tell us about it? I cannot find anywhere that you have.

I have members of my family that have been corrupt, distantly, but none the less scientologists in good standing with KSW, I will never condone this, no matter how I am related, distantly or not.
 

Mini Me

Retiree
Sorry Mick, but No it doesn't.

As far as I can make out you were arrested, along with Heber Jenschzt(spelling) in Spain, care to tell us about it? I cannot find anywhere that you have.

I have members of my family that have been corrupt, distantly, but none the less scientologists in good standing with KSW, I will never condone this, no matter how I am related, distantly or not.

Not sure what you are getting at here Sharone. What has Mick getting arrested (if in fact he was) got to do with you family's corruption?
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
There is a big problem with this analogy. Halfway houses combine recovery treatment with reintegration with the larger society to reduce recidivism. Marty's brand of Kool Aid is still Kool Aid and one doesn't recover from Scientology by using Scientology. Claiming that it is a halfway house is irresponsible and gives the wrong impression about the harm Scientology causes in human beings. It's a bit sad that Tony Ortega chose that analogy.

I don't think ayone here particularly thinks it is a 'healthy halfway house' ... and I don't think Marty would like the idea of "halfway" at all!
It can be however a stepping stone ... a sort of breathing space for a minute towards taking the next step of actually looking further. And that has happened and there are probably a heap more people who haven't posted about it yet.

Personally I am glad I found my own way out.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
for some M&M have been steps 1 and 2 of 8 Steps out of Scientology

1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on?

[ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The guys at the top must be crazy
 

Gib

Crusader
Hi Gib

Hmm. Ok. so you are advancing the "it worked for me" meme?

I understand that it did - and that you benefited it from it.

So consider this - how did those of us who got out of Scientology prior to - say - 1994 - get out? we did not have the aweasome value of a Marty and yet we got out - we criticized Scientology and the Sea org back in 1994.

I am not trying to beat on you ( though it may seem that way) but I am trying to shake up your critical thinking skills.

Sweriously - think about it for minute - WHY DID YOU finally get out?

No worries on thinking you are 'trying to beat on me", I didn't get that from you. But thanks for being nice.

To answer your question, I guess it was lots of things.

I got the debbie cook message, said to myself, I knew something was wrong and others saw it too. then I started researching on the internet, as I had questions, got answers, had to verifiy who was who on Marty's place and here and other websites, had to connect dots with what I read and what I observed in real life scientology involving what I learned, observed in others & myself above and below on the bridge and compared to wogs in real life.

One day while researching here or another place, forget now, I looked up "critical thinking" as I didn't know what it meant, and I went ok, I get it. But still I had questions and ideas from scientology that I just couldn't get over. I posted one day here and Gadfly answered explaining about Fixed Ideas, and bingo another question or several got resolved, and more research and bingo, I'm out.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
for some M&M have been steps 1 and 2 of 8 Steps out of Scientology

1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on? [ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The guys at the top must be crazy.



And for M&M (personally) it goes slightly different. . .


1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
why is (______) going on? [ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

2) The GUYS at the top must be crazy.

3) Wait, we ARE the guys at the top!

4) Let me give you that again. The GUY at the top must be crazy!

 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I understand that some people have successfully used M&M as a kind of halfway house ... but we'll never really know how many people left the cofs and went to M&M as a gradient to leaving ... and have been re-indoctrinated as a direct result of all the pally chatting that they do while being reminded that hubbard was wonderful and marvellous.

:whistling:

I've always felt that it's the mindset of being a scientologist that is the most damaging to a person ... which is why we 'lose' a person from the moment they become one, the scientology mindset/beliefs/attitudes completely alter personality and character and Indies do re-enforce all of that while the person is midway through the confusion and stress of leaving the cofs and may still have a lot of themselves invested in continuing up the 'bridge' ... being an Indie also alleviates any embarrassment they may feel at leaving the cult and feeling like a dick for having been conned.

Even so having someone out of the cofs is a good thing overall and there is nothing to stop them reading here and other places on the net.
 
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