anonycat?

[Free to shine]

I'm not so sure. There are lots of stories on these boards of people who felt good, felt something in the early stages of their involvement. Some of those stories involve exteriorization and many of those are from people who dropped Acid or did other hard drugs before, and I suspect that they were looking for those kinds of results and got them in a self-fulfilling sort of way.

I agree the conditioning kicks in at some point, but most people are not that conditionable coming in without some carrot with the stick.

However, I have never heard a 2nd gen talk that way, but I have not heard many of you.

Sure there is a carrot with the stick, and that works with new people.

The thing that many people don't get is that 2nd/3rd/4th generation (yes there is that in my family) may not have to personally experience every possible step on the 'bridge' to understand and observe the effects in ways many don't. You watch the people you love and know - many of them - thirstily grateful and relieved that their next hard earned step will be the answer to their life problems, and the inevitable crashes. Time after time after time. You watch the ruthless self serving actions to 'gain their freedom' while destruction follows in their wake. You watch the momentary "win" that quietly fades and the desperate plastic smiles to pretend it still exists, and the mental gymnastics to explain to themselves how bad they are that it didn't and it's not a fault of the tek. Some of us have lived the majority of our lives seeing this - so anyone saying to a generational that they don't know what they are talking about unless they have personally had that auditing/training is talking a load of shit with blinkers firmly in place.

 

[Panda Termint]

Guess WHAT?

Psychology explains that one TOO OMG

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Avoidance_conditioning

Is Psychology your new religion, Adam? "Scientology explains that TOO OMG" was something commonly heard in the Cult.

I hope that you're testing these Psychological principles to find out for yourself whether or not they hold true and whether or not you are applying the principles to others correctly.

If you won't learn from me, learn from your scientology experience; just because it's written doesn't mean it's true. That goes for a lot of things written about scientology too. I understand how comforting it must seem to believe that it's all "just a scam" and that "no auditing works".

Unfortunately that's not completely true, it's a scam, yes, but it's also something else to many people. About 50% of respondents here on an ESMB Poll reported real and valued gains from scientology. You have to factor that into your criticism, don't you?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Sure there is a carrot with the stick, and that works with new people.

The thing that many people don't get is that 2nd/3rd/4th generation (yes there is that in my family) may not have to personally experience every possible step on the 'bridge' to understand and observe the effects in ways many don't. You watch the people you love and know - many of them - thirstily grateful and relieved that their next hard earned step will be the answer to their life problems, and the inevitable crashes. Time after time after time. You watch the ruthless self serving actions to 'gain their freedom' while destruction follows in their wake. You watch the momentary "win" that quietly fades and the desperate plastic smiles to pretend it still exists, and the mental gymnastics to explain to themselves how bad they are that it didn't and it's not a fault of the tek. Some of us have lived the majority of our lives seeing this - so anyone saying to a generational that they don't know what they are talking about unless they have personally had that auditing/training is talking a load of shit with blinkers firmly in place.

Well said Sue.

Really well said.

​

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Thanks. Any actual Grade Chart actions? Grades, NED, Auditor Classification in all that? Just curious, not baiting you.

I did a lot of that crap. I'm not sure what your point is.

To a person who has never done any of that crap they can take a glance and see it is bat shit crazy.

A person who a lot of " Auditor Classification " ( I burst out laughing typing that ! ) can come to see it is bat shit crazy.

A person who has delivered a lot ( as in thousands of hours ) of auditing can come to see it is bat shit crazy.

A person who has done all the " grade chart " can come to see it is all bat shit crazy.

Your post seems to imply the more deeply involved one is in the cult the more likely they can see it is " true " - and I suggest that view is - in & of itself - just bat shit crazy squared.

Maybe level of contribution to the IAS would serve you better as the yardstick to truth that you seem to seek.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

<snip>

If you won't learn from me ....
<snip>
Unfortunately that's not completely true, it's a scam, yes, but it's also something else to many people. About 50% of respondents here on an ESMB Poll reported real and valued gains from scientology. You have to factor that into your criticism, don't you?

Learn from you ? ROFLMFAO !

I'd like to see that poll & the actual verification of these " real & valued gains ".

Are your really BSing yourself that deeply ?

In any event, thank you for the comic relief !

 

[OhMG]

ya know, it's been two thousand years and there's still no end of the people who will insist jesus of nazareth was insane. you are expressing an opinion which is certain to endure

More illogical deflection to avoid real world reality. No one today who "insist jesus of nazareth was insane" actually knew him. MANY who observed Hubbard's insanity and have reported on it, have worked/communicated directly with him. Including myself.

The depths a desperate, hypnotized person will go to, in order to defend their beliefs were just plumbed in the post of yours I quoted.

I truly feel sorry for your inability to break free from El Ron's mind control

 

[Bill]

Unfortunately that's not completely true, it's a scam, yes, but it's also something else to many people. About 50% of respondents here on an ESMB Poll reported real and valued gains from scientology. You have to factor that into your criticism, don't you?

"Real and valued gains"?

Are you referring to this poll? In that poll, the choices are extremely limited, the poll was five years ago and "real and valued" isn't there at all. That must not be the poll you were referring to. Which poll are you referring to, I couldn't find the "real and valued" poll?

Bill

 

[OhMG]

"Real and valued gains"?

Are you referring to this poll? In that poll, the choices are extremely limited, the poll was five years ago and "real and valued" isn't there at all. That must not be the poll you were referring to. Which poll are you referring to, I couldn't find the "real and valued" poll?

Bill

There is a MAJOR problem with any poll of that type. One is asking a person who has been hypnotized to believe that they have had "real and valued" gains if they have had them...

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Adam, I can see that we're not going to end in any sort of understanding or agreement on this aspect of the subject. I firmly believe that exposing the whole truth about scientology has to include the good, the bad and the ugly. Blanket assertions about what it is from people who have never experienced it for themselves don't cut it with me. The map is not the territory.

With baited breath, I await the "good" scientology provides ( provides, not just promises ! )

Is that those guys running around in yellow T shirts with " Volunteer Minister " boldly emblazoned on it ? Did those guys make the rounds with the Mighty Squirrel Buster Brigade that garnered so much attention down in Texas ?

Or maybe they were there as the watchers of Lisa Mc Pherson ?

Anyway, some of the real definable hontest-to-God "good" could be posted here?

Please none of " The room seems brighter " airy-fairy hoopla.

BTW, what doesn't "cut it" for most people is garden variety BS.

OMG, I just had a bognition ! I just got what the absolute highest level possible in scientology will ever be ! That is to have ones butt & head entirely OUT of the cult !

And, YES, I do attest that I wish all others as soon as humanly ( or OTly if you prefer ) stabely achieve this lasting state for themself !

 

[Commander Birdsong]

g'mawnin'!

woof!

SEVEN! pages to read

boyoboy! thanx!

well, first off...

i forget, did anderson get nominated for best director? i think not, but i'm not sure

 

[Commander Birdsong]

geez, and yet they are here. If they got fantastic results wouldn't they be there or in the zone?



You promote it.



Neither would I but you did start this thread for that purpose didn't you?

right.

they are here

TSTO so am i. Co$ horseshit has been LETHAL! sometimes. INCLUDING FOR MY OWN SON

"promote" wouldn't be precise. nor would any other word, but of course i often type in "auditing and auditor training are good things" and this is a good time and place to add with their own unique value

a post by anonycat prompted this thread. i got lots of purposes. one of the purposes of this thread is to enliven the conversation and it seems to be doing so..

 

[Commander Birdsong]

this thread needs more cowbell.

thank you...
i'll tell you about vernon sometime. he played cowbell on haight street for years. that phrase caught something in the public consciousness just after he died. few people know this but it's vernon's cowbell everyone misses...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

my top 5:

the 2012 stanley cup final

the 2007 patriots

the 2003 patriots

the 2001 patriots

and...

heeheeheeheeheehee...

the 2004 ALCS!!!

YANKEES SUCK! YANKEES SUCK! YANKEES SUCK![pm/QUOTE]

Thank you Commander. This post completely shows the OT phenomena I have been looking for. My search is over and I can now rest but I do believe there is one more you didn't mention NBA finals 08 Celtics over the Lakers.

i wasn't much in on the celts crown though i'd say they were slipstreaming my other 18 wheeler

 

[Adam7986]

Is Psychology your new religion, Adam? "Scientology explains that TOO OMG" was something commonly heard in the Cult.

Psychology is a science, not a religion.

I hope that you're testing these Psychological principles to find out for yourself whether or not they hold true and whether or not you are applying the principles to others correctly.

Don't need to. Millions of people before me have already done that.

If you won't learn from me, learn from your scientology experience; just because it's written doesn't mean it's true. That goes for a lot of things written about scientology too.

Just because it is NOT written doesn't mean it is NOT true. Just because someone else said it doesn't mean it isn't true. Just because someone said it doesn't mean it IS true.

Please Panda. The truth is the truth and it's proven true by being true. That's impossible for a Scientologist to understand because, "what's true is true for you." Which is why Scientologists are so gullible.

I understand how comforting it must seem to believe that it's all "just a scam"

and that "no auditing works".[/QUOTE]

WOW. What a totally true statement. Yes, it's very comforting to know that my dad is going to die because he was scammed out of getting proper medical care. It's comforting to know that my mom was scammed into working herself to near death. It's comforting that my brother was scammed into working in the Sea Org and suffering the same abuse I did. Its FUCKING COMFORTING to know that I lost my mother, father, brother and sister to a FUCKING scam.

Like a goddamn nigerian e-mailed them and said "stop talking to your son/brother forever and give me money too".

Think about what you're saying, or did you already think that one through?

Unfortunately that's not completely true, it's a scam, yes, but it's also something else to many people. About 50% of respondents here on an ESMB Poll reported real and valued gains from scientology. You have to factor that into your criticism, don't you?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_geography.html

Nine in ten couldn't find Afghanistan on a map of Asia. And 54 percent were unaware that Sudan is a country in Africa.

Three-quarters of respondents failed to find that country on a map. And three-quarters were unaware that a majority of Indonesia's population is Muslim, making it the largest Muslim country in the world.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re the above bolded line ... I agree that there is one seemingly small part of the whole thing that is truly good and effective if used correctly ... the 'acknowledgement'.

Any Mother of a newborn who really 'acknowledges' the gorgeous babble, eye contact and smiles will see the resultant beaming results ... puppy dogs that yap and nuzzle and grin and 'talk' actually do somersaults of pure joy when they realise you 'get them' (well mine do) and any girl with a broken heart that is truly listened to and acknowledged will wander off feeling better ... most of us like to feel understood (myself included).

I've long wondered why Indies come here to assert that their particular tek works/is good/effective etc and I've decided that it's because they (the auditors) desperately want to be acknowledged for their good intentions/enormous amount of time spent on the subject/real and imagined results ... and while I understand that, I will never accept the urge they seem to have to ram it down the throats of people that have moved on or are trying to.

ESMB may never be the place for you and people like you to receive acknowledgement as an auditor Birdie, because even though you were all (almost certainly) well intentioned there are always going to be people like me who will rain on your parade.

Acknowledgement feels good but there comes a time (perhaps as we mature) when we are able to acknowledge ourselves and it just doesn't matter what others think ... I sincerely hope you and others like you get there and continue to feel positive about the good things you have done and do for others without the apparent need for the approval of exes.

"to damn with faint praise" is a tactic of longstanding with ron's ritics

 

[Commander Birdsong]

my top 5:

the 2012 stanley cup final

the 2007 patriots

the 2003 patriots

the 2001 patriots

and...

heeheeheeheeheehee...

the 2004 ALCS!!!

YANKEES SUCK! YANKEES SUCK! YANKEES SUCK![pm/QUOTE]

Thank you Commander. This post completely shows the OT phenomena I have been looking for. My search is over and I can now rest but I do believe there is one more you didn't mention NBA finals 08 Celtics over the Lakers.

yes...

2012

nope

not a typo

i was thinking 2012 when i typed it in

just another senior moment; that's 2013 of course

 

[OhMG]

Psychology is a science, not a religion.

Actually, psychology is NOT a science. I have two relatives that are Psychologists, they both agree. It is WAY more an art. Anyone who has a REAL science degree knows that fact.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

another county heard from...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

I do. Dianetics is useless and outdated. Scientology is evil.

this is another statement of an a opinion which is certain to endure

dn and scn are also certain to endure

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Scientologists suffer from a severe case of "can't see the forest for the trees." Also known as "cognitive dissonance".

Auditing is bullshit. It doesn't produce any results. It doesn't cure anything. It doesn't help anyone. It's a waste of time, a waste of money and Scientology is dangerous. Why dangerous? Because it leaves people believing that "auditing" can cure their ills and so they die of what would otherwise be curable diseases. People think they can save themselves by molesting each other with their fingertips.

Those of you who peddle the snake oil of Hubbard are a danger to all those around you.

and staffmembers are required to suffer from rectalcraniosis