ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

AnonyMary & Churchill at the Getting Clear Conference

Discussion in 'Conferences, Speeches, Radio Shows, and Live Publi' started by Churchill, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm only just catching up on this thread as I've been away on holidays enjoying life - which included a break (sort-of - I still took a few phone calls) from exposing toxic cult's crimes.:woohoo:

    Mary and Len - thank you for putting together this synopsis of what was obviously another major stake in the heart of Hubbard's vampiristic cult.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

    And Len, thank you from the bottom of my heart for exposing yourself like that to Steve Cannane and the rest of the world. THAT takes guts - far, far more guts than a certain "war hero" (who spent a lot of His life hiding) could ever dream of.:bighug:
  2. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Thanks for stopping by and reading the thread! I agree 100% on your comment for Len.. :thumbsup:

    As always, you do more than your share of helping expose Scientology and Narconon so I'm glad to hear you took a well deserved vacation of sorts!

    :hattip: to my much appreciated critic colleague in Australia! Thanks for all you have done and manage to continue to do

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  3. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    :bighug: back at ya !!!

    And thank you so very, very much for all that you do (which is a lot more than I can fit in :biggrin:) - you have been absolutely stellar in the help you've given me over the years in tackling the evil that is this cult we fight.:yes:
  4. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Thank you, Gizmo. :heartflower:

    You're very welcome.

    When I wrote it, I meant it in a most sincere way. Not to justify. Just to state what I have learned along the way that might provide a bigger picture to increase in small changes leading in the direction of a slow but persistent decline in personality and interest. There are times where you cannot reason with a person, where opposition will kick in to accepting ideas, suggestions and help.

    It's feels good to share something that will help another person better understand and have more compassion. You are a good person, Gizmo. You care.

    For the benefit of anyone reading this:

    If changes are observed in a loved one, a family should keep an eye out for lethargy - as a symptom of senility - or as a matter of depression, which had similar symptoms of disconnection from social norms to varying degrees. Both slow onset senility and depression can be addressed by a visit to the family doctor as a first step.

    Getting the person to go is a task that requires compassionate and non-judgmental suggestion, along with a lot of patience. The most difficult time for a person in decline is the shame and embarrassment in hearing about themselves or revealing the changes in them self which they have observed and are struggling to understand on their own.

    Insisting you are right and the person is wrong ( no matter how true) or arguing with them are probably the worst things one can doing. Sadly, many unaware people insist on doing this, resulting in mutual frustration and worsened relations.

    I didn't fully realize what was happening with the person I was discussing here until after the more noticeable changes had been noted or observed by others besides myself. I've got plenty of room for putting what I now understand about all this into practice.
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yup! I thought the Lateline segment was EXCELLENT! :thumbsup:
  6. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Steve Canane spoke in Toronto about his soon to be released book about Scientology in Australia.

    The documents he uncovered were particularly unflattering of Hubbard, to say the least; I found them quite shocking, and there is little about Scientology that shocks me anymore.

    At this point, all that Pouw and Miscavige can do is issue shrill and hollow boilerplate denials, and continue to enforce strict "information control" (censorship) on their ever shrinking membership.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  7. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    That photo comes from his website, from this page of this article, on this subject, which he found explain much of why and how Scientology 'works'; how the 'con' works. He also knows that repetition works to interest,and oftentimes control others. This may explain the repetitive posting of the photo.

    How Mental Manipulation "WORKS"

    Covert Hypnosis Index
  8. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you Scooter. Much appreciated.
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Hello.. it's past morning but I need to sleep in and get needed rest. I also had attend to a couple of priority matters that came up since I last posted.

    I figured out why I am not certain as to who spoke when. There was the original schedule posted on the website

    Then there was an edited copy shown to me that then had to be edited again.
    By the time I was to speak, that one was edited again!

    There were justifiable reasons for all this. Among other things, Pete Griffiths became sick earlier in the week. Caught himself a very bad cold ( quite possibly from someone reading OT III at the event :wink2:) By Wednesday evening, he was still not up to par so this required pushing his talk as part of the Thursday morning International Contingency session to a later day and time.

    Other things emerged... not sure what, but the schedule had to be changed.

    I know that at least 1 of 2 people who were originally scheduled to be at the event via video presentation on the International critic scene who could not attend.

    Journalist, free speech advocate and critic Karin Spaink. I know didn't present. I was hoping so much to hear what she had to say. She is a heroine in my book, for standing up to Scientology and for free speech. Karin will most undoubtedly be at the next year conference, where Andreas will also be holding a celebration for Operation Clambake / and it's OCMB forum on it's 20 year anniversary


    Karin was and is a key player in getting things on the internet that the cult did not want there. They sued, and sued and sued her and others back in the 1990's. She won her cases and helped in a large way to keep and allow information to remain available on the internet and more to be posted.

    For information on Karin and her history as a never-in critic of Scientology:

    Karin Spaink -- Xenu-Directory Page
    Must read page with links to really goo and inforomative information, including the Scientology litigation kit. "Sources to defend oneself with when sued by Scientology. (Anyway, I used them, and won.)"

    Copies of the lawsuits and this summary at the Links And Law website

    Now, perhaps I missed Marta Gorna, an activist in Poland, the person who I believe was not able to provide a video/skype presentation. It may be that this segment was scratched early on, because it was decided not to do a live broadcast of the event. Hopefully someone else knows more abut her or heard her at the event. I couldn't find any information.

    The result was a variety of others speaking at different times on Thursday and Friday.

    My next post will be about these folks.
  10. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I want to talk about one aspect of the Toronto Conference that may have been overlooked.

    It was a tremendously unifying experience.

    For myself, it brought me full circle.

    Earlier, in March, I had attended Tony Ortega's viewing party of Going Clear, hoping to meet former Scientologists

    from my NY Org and Sea Org days. This was not to be, but, in their place I met many of the Bunkerites; an

    amazingly wonderful group of never-ins and ex'es.

    I had mistakenly assumed that only those who had been "in" could truly understand the trap of Scientology.

    I was wrong.

    Not only do the Bunkerites understand the elaborate minefield of thought; the evil machinations of Hubbard's prison of the mind,

    but they understood it, completely uncluttered and unencumbered of the mental baggage that ex-Scientologists need to work through.

    The Bunkerites I met in Toronto were filled with that irrepressible and contagious disrespect for the pseudo-science and pseudo-religion and pompous pseudo-authority of Scientology,

    and it was an absolute and utter joy to meet them!

    THDNE, Vaquera, Ella, Panopea, Max, acquaclara, Baby, Snake Plissken and many, many others....YOU GUYS ROCK!

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is already an enormous groundswell of opposition to the bullying tactics, the breaking up of families, and the often illegal and always unethical behavior of

    Scientology, that characterize it as a clear and present danger to freedom of (and from) religion, and freedom of thought, as well.

    Tory compared Toronto with Woodstock. Peace and love and No More (War) Scientology!

    'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished. -Hamlet
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  11. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    The two International presentations by video which I attended and just loved are:

    Dr. Simonetta Po from Italy. She run a a most active and well read website there called
    Allarme Scientology I have hyperlinked the name to it with a Google English translation of her main page. The direct site link is

    We had the honor to hear Dr. Simonetta Po give us updates on matters happening in Italy.

    Who is she? Well, I am going to use a fair use excerpt which describes her, as written by former COS member, Silvia Kusado. Here, in 2010, Silvia starts out mentioning the infamous Scientology Library Project scam....

    Dr. Po's other site is

    She wrote a very good letter to officials regarding the Narconon and Scientology relationship. I have pdf of this in English translated by Google for anyone who would like toread it :)

    "The Narconon controversial case: the unbearable parable of a regime"

    About Narconon / Scientology and doctrinal relationships. Reflections of Simonetta Po, editor of the site "Scientology", article by Camillo Maffia appeared on Radical Agency October 15, 2014.

    (Sent to Camillo Maffia for Radical Agency October 19, 2014 with a request to full publication. Request rejected)

    Arnaud Palisson

    Next, we heard from Arnaud Palisson on the state of the French case against Scientology, once which he was involved with as a police member of a cult task force that Scientology tried blame to prove favoritism and influence in their issue with the country... I need to read more on him but he is a very important figure who they don't like. He provided us with an update..

    More on Arnaud...

    Back in 2012, Journalist and critic Jonny Jacobson wrote an update on France, for The Underground Bunker. In it he says...

    Convicted of fraud by France’s highest court, Scientology still pursues creative appeals
    Arnaud's work extended into other areas and eventually he moved from France to Canada sometime between 2003 and 2005.

    His impressive LinkedIn says he is currently working in the Intelligence - Information Security - Risk Management field in Montreal, Canada Area. Information Technology and Services"

    He has popular website Rapports (Minority Reports)

    Here is a link to a 2012 article he wrote about the situation of Scientology in France. as mentioned in Jonny's article

    It's amazing how Scientology makes excellent critics out of the Never-Ins :biggrin:

    I was happily surprised and honored to meet our one and only mnql1

    who was in the audience, but not speak a speaker.

    mnql1 has been exceptionally helpful over the years in posting and providing summaries and translated excerpts of international news articles about Scientology on this and other forums. :thumbsup:

    Without mnql1, we would not have as much information available to us to know of, and understand what is going on world wide. :clap:

    I also got me meet, hug and chat some more very cool people between the international and Narconon sessions.. and my next post will go onto that, with a few more photos.
  12. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm so glad that you mentioned Karin Spaink. During the early '90's, when I had just begun lurking (much too afraid to post) on the Internet, she was a beacon of truth in the darkness. During those years, Scientology was able to periodically spam newsgroups like alt.religion Scientology (ARS) and OSA had invested heavily in stopping free speech. Tory has written and spoken extensively about this, and of her own actions of setting up phony accounts for Bill Yaude of OSA, in order to spam the Internet.

    One of the biggest lies in Scientology is it's assertion, in The Creed, that it believes in freedom of speech.

    From Paulette Cooper in 1971 to Alex Gibney in 2015, Scientology has fought against free speech
    with unbridled viciousness, while simultaneously portraying itself as a champion of Human Rights.

    Jim Beverley told me a week or so before the Toronto Conference that he had actually invited Scientology to send a representative to address the critics. It would have been unprecedented.

    Instead, true to form, the "Church" sent a rather dour looking Private Investigator to record events.

    What a surprise.
  13. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Thanks for bringing all this up!!

    I was floored by the warmth and acknowledgement I received from the many Bunkerites who attended here ( and at Tony and Paulette's book tour in Washington, DC ). Tony's blog serves as an entryway to educating so many Never-Ins, many who have taken up the torch to educating themselves further and spreading the word to others. This serves as an important source of outreach on the internet and in the world of many who might not ever have come to know the seriousness of what is going on, beyond the Tom Cruise and Travolta jokes.

    Related to this:

    An amazing thing happened there when I came down from the stage after speaking. I felt a strong hand on my forearm, turned to look ( the lights were bright so it was not easy to see at first) and who should be there but Nan McLean!! Talking to me about my talk, how she was so glad that I spoke, and how proud she was of me for what I was doing. How she had worked so hard in exposing Scientology and Narconon in Canada many years ago, against much opposition and little support at the start. I was shocked! This woman who has been one of the most important and brave exes, actually knew of me!! I was overcome with emotions! We hugged and smiled and I wanted to cry with joy, really... it was very overwhelming for me... and who would be among those standing nearby observing this but the wonderful Bunkerite Vaquera, offering to take a photo of Nan and I! If I didn't love Nan so much, and love her beauty and joy in this photo, I probably would not post it The shot of me there makes me cringe... . I was still in shock, on the verge of happy tears for meeting Nan, not able to pull myself together enough to quell the emotions... But I am sharing it because Vaquera took it to share with me and others, to document the moment. She posted it on the Bunker in response to a comment I made about the conference. I'd forgotten all about it... so much going on at the time after exiting the stage.

    So here we are, Nan McLean and me! June 25, 2015 Toronto :D Courtesy of Vaquera


    Kudos to the never-ins, here and elsewhere, for joining in and helping expose Scientology and Narconon!

    More on my talking with Nan, her son John and others soon.
  14. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Yesterday. I came across a recent wonderful article and surprise video posted by David Pike of FACTNet, the most instrumental site back in the 90s and 2000's created by Lawrence Wollersheim and Bob Penny,to educate people about Scientology and other cults.


    If you don't know about Lawrence Wollersheim ^^^^ and his very significant history with and against the Church of Scientology, you can read up here at Operation Clambake's Larry "86-million-dimes" Wollersheim or here on wiki You can also just Google search his name.

    David Pike, the News Blog editor and Site administrator for FACTNet and former member of the Twelve Tribes cult, spoke on stage in Toronto with Jon Atack.

    David, above, posted about and linked in Lawrence Wollersheim's Toronto video presentation, which Pete Griffith uploaded to his YouTube video account. How fortunate for me and all who did not get to see this.

    This is a must-see. What a message Lawrence has for us... he also tells people 'if you are going to sue Scientology, go to Prof Kent's site and read, and use the docs from the many involving his cases that worked to help me win against Scientology.'

    Address by Lawrence Wollersheim
    pedrofcuk Published on Jul 6, 2015


    Lawrence Wollersheim speaks about FACTNet and Scientology.
    You can see the video here at David Pike's article at FACTnet, and while you are there, take a look at all the documented historical FACTnet treasures archived there from years of exposing Scientology
  15. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Mary, Churchill, am going back to check on a few links, but specifically the one about the Purif being debunked from a science standpoint. The link didn't work or rather went to a Google account. I wanted to highlight this as not sure if it was your account, but also as I'm really interested in the science point.

    Thanks for all the reports!
  16. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    This is probably what you are referring to

    WWP The Wrong Guy Posted this
    The Fake Science of Scientology: Purification Rundown
    Published by Chris Shelton on July 9, 2015

    "Scientology is supposed to be the "science of certainty" but how much science is really there? L. Ron Hubbard was a con man and he used pseudoscience to convince his gullible and uninformed followers that he was a scientific genius who knew more about physics, molecular phenomena, biology and physiology than any actual trained professional, despite the fact that Hubbard not only had no formal education in these subjects but in fact had flunked out of high school and college. Here I break down the pseudoscience behind the dangerous Purification Rundown, a drug detox program the Church of Scientology offers to this day."
  17. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    WWP The Wrong Guy also posted this video and excerpt
    Critical Q&A #11
    Chris Shelton
    Published on Jun 28, 2015
    The eleventh installment of my question-and-answer video show, where I take up questions subscribers and commenters have asked me in my videos and answer them as best I can.
  18. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    No, it wasn't Chris Shelton's videos, although they were great.

    Was it Angela Harris, the toxicologist? Just went through this thread and can't find where you provide the link. Maybe I imagined it!
  19. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Angela Harris debunked the pseudo-science and flat-out false statements of Hubbard contained in Clear Body/Clear Mind. Additionally, as Chris Shelton notes in his excellent video,

    the language throughout is deliberately vague and equivocal, filled with false, vague, and essentially meaningless (from a scientific perspective) phrases as "It is believed" - "Some have observed" -"LSD is basically wheat rust" -

    "LSD apparently stays in the system"

    Angela Harris methodically and systematically took apart Hubbard's doublespeak quackery line by line and word by misleading word.
  20. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    I like this bit (from the intro to Dr. Po's website);

    "This site is pizzaware. The consultation is free, but if you want to offer me a pizza accept it gladly."