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Another attempt at recovery.

Free Being Me

Crusader
One thing I found beneficial is being around people who weren't in the cult with no cult-speak in use around me. Non-cult normal conversations. To contrast the word trigger cognitive indoctrinations that are rife in the cult. This is where looking at PTSD and CBT that were previously mentioned come into play. The cult rewires neurological cognitive pathways with habitual repetition using Operant Conditioning. This is an area where having a good patient therapist can be very beneficial. I found it so.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Warning: depending on WebMD for medical information might be UNSAFE. WebMD is funded by Big Pharma, which has a vested interest in steering people away from herbal, vitamin-based, and natural remedies towards high-priced patent medicines instead. A better name for this web site might be WebDrugCompany.

Helena

Helena - I was so freaked out by THE PSYCHS when I left the cult of Scientology - I would not have anything to do with them and felt this way too! What I realized is Scientology manipulates the followers into thinking and believing NO ONE can help anyone except Scientology and the entire field of Psychiatry is evil and must be destroyed

Over time, when I needed to learn what happened to me and how I got so trapped into the Scientological Mind Trap and wanted OUT - I slowly started reading articles written by "THE PSYCHS" and found them to be absolutely true and helpful.

While I do not condone drugging people to solve problems and agree that the psych drugs are dangerous - NOT ALL Psychs are evil and want to destroy. Scientology had indoctrinated ME into thinking black and white on the subject. I believe Hubbard did not want to get caught at all the plagiarism and stuff he copied from "THE PSYCHS" not to mention the war he started fighting with THE PSYCHS due to them invalidating Dianetics. Even Hubbard admits in his "TEK" that people need an enemy and he enforced his enemy on Scientologists, which they still have to this day even though Hubbard is long gone and has never returned. He would be about 30 years old by now - so where is RON???:whistling: Past lives and we come back...where is the proof of that?

As far as CCHR goes - when I was in I noticed they did not do anything about "THE PSYCHS". It is a pure dog and pony show ... the evil enemy all Scientologists must have and must fight. A few volunteers would find some perverted "Psych" that molested clients and turn them in...get them prosecuted and that was it! There is no real education happening out in the real world from CCHR - in fact, no one has ever heard of CCHR. The industry of death mobiles were always placed in a off-beat location with no foot traffic and no one coming into the exhibit except a few stragglers. The Church would make the public pay the rent for the "IOD display" location and no one would rent to them...because it is Scientology. The Church really did not care - this is just part of the Dog and Pony show to give members the illusion that Scientology was doing something about it...when in fact, they do nothing but regg for money.

When I was doing my DOUBT formula - I looked at CCHR's financial statements they had on line. This was 2010. The IAS only contributed $1,000,000 to CCHR - that is it!! The IAS takes in hundreds of millions and they pay the attorney's more than that with one lawsuit - if it protects David Miscavige! So - how is CCHR suppose to take out the Psychs and stop the drugging of our children with only $1,000,000 from the IAS! What a show Miscavige puts on. Also, the people running CCHR get a salary - while the rest of the staff and Sea Org members volunteer. Something is not right with that!

I had a friend who was dealing with prescription drug addiction. When I was in - I contacted CCHR and they did nothing and did not care. All they did was suggest I get them to a Narconon Center. Narconon demanded $40K up front and the person had no money - so CCHR threw them under the bus! NO HELP at all!

I have found so many articles from "THE PSYCHS" to help me deal with emotions and feelings Scientology never helped me with. I don't take drugs and I don't condone it. Scientology damages people utterly. It is a cult and L Ron Hubbard was a CON! Scientology needs a BLACK BOX WARNING! It is dangerous to your mental, emotional, physical and spritual health! Just read the hundreds of thousands of horror stories on the internet on how Scientology bankrupts, spiritually rapes and harms everyone that comes in its path!
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
November

You are not at all alone. Your descriptions of the nightmares are very similar to what a lot of exSO have gone through (this was a huge item of discussion on the XSO mailing list) from what I have learned - and there are many more qualified than I to speak to this - the nightmares are a consequence of a form of PTSD (for want of a better word) it has to do with huge amounts of stress being endured over very long periods of time without relief.

It does die down but you may find it incredibly helpful if you can talk to a real therapist who has experience dealing with PTSD or similar stress driven conditions - who can help you identify the triggers and also how to deal with the after effects.

It is something that is known about, there are people who can help you with it.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I would be wary of a general "antidepressants are good" recommendation. It is an individual thing and needs to be closely monitored by a competent medical professional. I know a few people who are in dreadful shape due to the wrong antidepressant and on medical advice the tapering off may take years so it can make waking life a nightmare too. Care is needed.

Yes, medications are very individual and I agree proper oversight is a must if a person chooses to take them. What works for one person may be useless for another. The benefits of taking meds for example due to depression, anxiety, panic attacks, are there. I'm not saying they are a cure all however taking such meds has been stigmatized especially when it comes to the cult. This is where researching for yourself what any side effects are with short term/long term use when they are prescribed can lead to informed decisions.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Warning: depending on WebMD for medical information might be UNSAFE. WebMD is funded by Big Pharma, which has a vested interest in steering people away from herbal, vitamin-based, and natural remedies towards high-priced patent medicines instead. A better name for this web site might be WebDrugCompany.

Helena

yeah, instead go to a bunch of quack sites that have done no research, no studies and which will quite happily sell anything some twit told them would "handle things".

You know what happens with "natural remedies" that actually get tested and proven?

They become what we call "medicine",
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
WARNING: A number of folks on ESMB still have residues of Scientology brainwashing in their system and may forward superstitious beliefs about the Internet, medicine, science and pharmacy. Since some have not yet regained the ability to fully analyse information and sources rationally and analytically, they may occasionally post lingering prejudicial, generalising statements and attitudes about things Hubbard hated.

YES ^^^ this is so true...and I am totally guilty of that!:blush: I got sucked right into another CULT (not as bad as Scientology - but it was still a cult where the leader made people feel bad about themselves and needed his cult to have spiritual righteousness with God).

What I learned - If one does not take the time to educate oneself about mind control, especially in religions, one may only feel comfortable in cults.

A few friends of mine (Ex Scientologists) only feel comfortable in cult like groups - they joined a Multi Level Marketing company where they sell "blue sky" for the privilege to be part of a group. They make no money but they go to conferences and meet ups and get all jazzed up - they sell a few things but the people at the top are the only ones that make any money - they have been grinding away at this for years and have nothing to show for it as far as income...but the believe they will get rich some day. Poor souls!!:bigcry: They have made nothing of real substance since they first join...but the believe and work tirelessly to be right....:hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper: Sound familiar? Yes - they were on Staff so they were all lubed up for this type of thinking and behavior.

They also got sucked into a Christian Cult where the Leader gives their heart to Jesus (they do not do it on their own) After that - the Leader made them get Baptized in front of the group - dunked in a tank for all to see! They believe that in order to be a REAL Christian - they had to do it - and the Leader twists the Bible to get his clubbed seals to do whatever he demands. I watched this guy belittle his parishoner's. He totally takes advantage of vulnerable souls that come in to his church desparate for help...and he converts a lot of people. No one looks happy - they love bomb, they do many of the similar things that the cult of Scamonology does but instead of Ron they use Jesus. It is very sad and not what I believe Christianity is all about. Just a messed up minister looking for control to survive!

He also made them take a class BEFORE they could be considered part of the "Church family" and receive a small group to support them. I watched this looney tune Pastor "REGG" people for donations for his building and school - so his entire family had nice jobs at the expense of the parishioners.

They took the bait - hook, line and sinker and eventually disconnected from me because I would not buy their MLM stuff and join the "Church family" where the leader lives in a $500,000 home and everyone in his family has a nice job supported by his "cherch".

Now I know why I hate Organized religion and Scientology takes the cake on that one...they did prepare me to be aware of cults in our midst! Prior to Scientology - I stayed away from organized religion - I was told Scientology would be different but it IS one of the worst "cherch's" available to man today!! Now - I stay away from Organized religion and have come full circle with a lot more "R" on cults!

Thank you L R H for my amazing WIN!! I now have total certainty with conceptual understanding on CULTS in our midst! Thank you Sir - for your genius CON job and deceit...I believed you were a Nuclear Physicist, won Purple Hearts in the Navy, was Ron the Writer, Ron the Photographer, Ron the this...Ron the that - until I LOOKED - then I found out you were only RON THE CON the entire time. Your "tek" attracted the likes of David Miscavige and it helped create the covert cult we have today!! Wow - now that was some create Ron....very well done on the deceit and fraud!

Not only is Scientology a cult but is an evil organization (business) that uses religious cloaking to deceive its members so they can take advantage of them, get all of their money, and use them for free labor.

After 63 years - there are no clears or OT's ...the TEK was squirreled by SP's the whole entire time....most members are in dire straights - financially, spiritually and mentally!

No one in questions this fact, which is an indication that their analytical minds have been hijacked. They can't see and no Super Power rundown in the world is going to help them see the truth - they have to step away and LOOK from an objective viewpoint.
 
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November

Patron
Hoooooly Cow. I said it before, you are aaaaaamazing! :)

Okay, so: last night I was so exhausted, I had a big evening of shopping and some yummy ramen at a tiny noodle house in town. Then I did about an hour of yoga before bed. As I lay down, I tried to breath with my tummy instead of keeping the breath in the chest, and repeated to myself, "I may not be able to control my dreams, but I can observe them as my mind heals."

I slept soundly allll night. (Until my puppy decided that 5:30am was the perfect time for breakfast and announced this fact by chewing on my ear till I woke up.)



From WebMD:

"5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan) is a chemical by-product of the protein building block L-tryptophan. It is also produced commercially from the seeds of an African plant (Griffonia simplicifolia).

Don’t use 5-HTP until more is known. 5-HTP might be UNSAFE.

WARNING: A number of folks on ESMB still have residues of Scientology brainwashing in their system and may forward superstitious beliefs about the Internet, medicine, science and pharmacy. Since some have not yet regained the ability to fully analyse information and sources rationally and analytically, they may occasionally post lingering prejudicial, generalising statements and attitudes about things Hubbard hated.

yeah, instead go to a bunch of quack sites that have done no research, no studies and which will quite happily sell anything some twit told them would "handle things".

You know what happens with "natural remedies" that actually get tested and proven?

They become what we call "medicine",

About medicine, herbs, supplements etc.: I don't have the negative mindset about the mental health industry that I had when I was a member of the cult. I have many acquaintances who are either students of psychology, or are already doctors, and from personal experience I can say that no, they're not all out to get me. ;) However, from what I understand, mental health medicines are a bit of a trial and error situation. The doctor prescribes a medication that they THINK will help the individual, and then the patient has to take it regularly.... and then they wait.

If after a month or six, no changes have been felt, then the doctor may try some other medication. Mental health isn't really an exact science yet.

I've done quite a bit of study on the subject of herbs, and I make tinctures of herbs and I take them *sometimes*(I'm pretty forgetful) and they help. Chamomile helps me relax, but it doesn't make me sleepy. I really like arnica for panic attacks. Arnica is an herb that has a high toxicity level, so you can't take too much of it. I usually a make bit of arnica leaves steeped into a tea, and I sip the tea until the panic goes away, then I pour the rest into my compost bin.

Artichoke, Dandelion, Chicory, Hawthorne (LOOOVE hawthorne) and valerian root tinctures are also in my "medicine bag". But again, I'm pretty forgetful, and I hardly ever try and take 'medicine' until after I'm sick... yanno?

When it comes to medicine, I'd rather take the natural plant and pull the constituents out myself, rather than trust in a pill or man made chemical. As Mick said, many of the herbal components our ancestors used are now in medicine. Look at things like willow bark, which they use(d) to make aspirin.

I have started doing research into Sam-e and 5-HTP, and I welcome all the suggestions you all make. JustShelia, I appriciate your concern and warnings! It's so refreshing to see a wide range of ideas on healing.

All in all, I dont think there's any ONE way to get healed, become enlightened, or any of that. Humans are so alike, but also so different that it would be silly for me to think that! :)


Addendum ...

Lol! I just found your 'other' thread with the same OP ... (I wondered why only one person had welcomed you, now I know why).

You did? Where did it go? When I couldnt find it, I clicked on my username and didn't see a posting for it. >.<


ETA: diet and exercise are always my culprits! I try to eat mostly food I grow myself- I raise about 30% of my fruit and vegetables, and about 80% of my own meat in the form of pork, rabbit, goat, and beef. However, I have a weakness for tacos and Dr. Pepper. (Dr. Pepper is my nemesis, ya'll.) I also do yoga on average 3x a week, sometimes 5x if I'm particularly awesome. ;)

And then there's the whole aspect of breath and meditation.

Have any of you read The Book of Secrets by Osho? I've only read the beginning, but it's basically a huge book of what looks like a transcript of this guy Osho talking to a class about the various ways to meditate in the Tantric way. (Tantra isn't just sex, either!) I read the first few chapters, had this moment where I realized that this guy just spouted the Clear Cognition in like the second chapter.... that was a mindfuck, for sure...

I try meditating when I remember to. While I have had great "wins" while doing it, I never seem to feel motivated enough to do it regularly. For me, I have always had a love-hate relationship with guided meditation.

I like guided meditation, because I feel like it's a from of therapy, there's an exact beginning and end to the procedure, and I'm usually happier after it. However, I'm wary of guided meditation, because I've got this niggling fear in the back of my mind that says "dont let your guard down! you might go into a spin!"

While we're on the subject of meditation, I have a little tangential story, but I'll cover it in my next post. :)
 
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Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hoooooly Cow. I said it before, you are aaaaaamazing! :)

Okay, so: last night I was so exhausted, I had a big evening of shopping and some yummy ramen at a tiny noodle house in town. Then I did about an hour of yoga before bed. As I lay down, I tried to breath with my tummy instead of keeping the breath in the chest, and repeated to myself, "I may not be able to control my dreams, but I can observe them as my mind heals."

I slept soundly allll night. (Until my puppy decided that 5:30am was the perfect time for breakfast and announced this fact by chewing on my ear till I woke up.)



About medicine, herbs, supplements etc.: I don't have the negative mindset about the mental health industry that I had when I was a member of the cult. I have many acquaintances who are either students of psychology, or are already doctors, and from personal experience I can say that no, they're not all out to get me. ;) However, from what I understand, mental health medicines are a bit of a trial and error situation. The doctor prescribes a medication that they THINK will help the individual, and then the patient has to take it regularly.... and then they wait.

If after a month or six, no changes have been felt, then the doctor may try some other medication. Mental health isn't really an exact science yet.

I've done quite a bit of study on the subject of herbs, and I make tinctures of herbs and I take them *sometimes*(I'm pretty forgetful) and they help. Chamomile helps me relax, but it doesn't make me sleepy. I really like arnica for panic attacks. Arnica is an herb that has a high toxicity level, so you can't take too much of it. I usually a make bit of arnica leaves steeped into a tea, and I sip the tea until the panic goes away, then I pour the rest into my compost bin.

Artichoke, Dandelion, Chicory, Hawthorne (LOOOVE hawthorne) and valerian root tinctures are also in my "medicine bag". But again, I'm pretty forgetful, and I hardly ever try and take 'medicine' until after I'm sick... yanno?

When it comes to medicine, I'd rather take the natural plant and pull the constituents out myself, rather than trust in a pill or man made chemical. As Mick said, many of the herbal components our ancestors used are now in medicine. Look at things like willow bark, which they use(d) to make aspirin.

I have started doing research into Sam-e and 5-HTP, and I welcome all the suggestions you all make. JustShelia, I appriciate your concern and warnings! It's so refreshing to see a wide range of ideas on healing.

All in all, I dont think there's any ONE way to get healed, become enlightened, or any of that. Humans are so alike, but also so different that it would be silly for me to think that! :)



You did? Where did it go? When I couldnt find it, I clicked on my username and didn't see a posting for it. >.<

About medicine and herbs.

There is no "natural" medicine. There are compounds, constituents of plants or synthetically made, that have pharmacologic activity. Some of these come from nature but can be deadly - ephedrine, nightshade, hemlock.

I do use herbal medicine.

But I don't kid myself. The active compounds in herbals hit biochemical targets the same as a synthetic chemical would. Let's take willow bark, for example. Acetylsalicylic acid from willow bark will give you ulcers and thin your blood just the same as the synthetic kind. And here's the important part - if you are drinking / eating enough herb to get a pharmacologic effect from the active ingredient you will get the same side effects as if you took the synthetic concentrate in pill form.

Finally, there is the issue of metabolism. Drugs are usually metabolized by the liver, bound to protein, or excreted unchanged through the kidneys. This puts stress on the liver and kidneys. Herbal drugs are processed the same way. Grapefruit is the classic example of a natural product that interferes with one of the enzymes in the liver that metabolize drugs (the cytochrome P450 family). When a natural product is in your system, adding another natural product or a synthetic drug can cause problems because those two or three or four pharmacologically active compounds can compete for the same enzyme in the liver, and their concentrations can spike unexpectedly. Don't mix anything - drug or herbal - with another agent without talking to a doctor.

Seriously.

This could save your liver or your life.

And Helena, get a grip. WebMD has a mildly antagonistic relationship with Big Pharma. Stop talking about stuff you have NO clue about. None.
 

November

Patron
Okay, here's my story about meditation; probably my biggest "win" as the cult would call it. :eyeroll:

Last fall, my partner and I took a road trip out near Flagstaff, AZ for an Herbal Medicine conference. 'Conference' is a loose term, because it was really a bunch of hippies out at this awesome campground taking and giving small hour-2hour classes on a lot of different aspects of herbal medicine. It was our first foray into herbs as medicine, and we found out about it from a "wilderness first aid" course my partner had taken earlier that year.

I loved my time there. The Ponderosa Pine trees smell of butterscotch when you hug them and bury your nose in their bark. The campground was situated on the banks of a mostly dried up lake, the largest natural lake in Arizona. The land there was full to bursting with history, legend, and the general explosion of life that usually happens in early fall. It's the last hurrah before winter comes, so all those old summer plants are busy 'gettin their flower on' so they can spread their seeds for next spring.

The other students were pretty cool too. I dont spend a lot of time with the hippy crowd...I'm more of a stay-at-home-farmer...and it was probably the first time I ever saw so many women with hairy legs. ;) Everyone there was so nice, and there was a lot more actual science involved than I expected. Many of the teachers/instructors were biologists, chemists, actual professors at actual universities...not all crackpot like I'm sure some people expect. :)

Anyways, we were there for 4 days or so, with 4 or 5 classes available every hour. I noticed something rather interesting about this group. Most (though not all) the instructors began their class with a little bit of meditation. They would ask us to close our eyes, and fully arrive in this moment. (As an ex-Scientologist, I translated this into getting us all into 'Present Time") Some of the meditations were maybe 30 seconds long, enough for us to take a few unison breaths as a group, and to take in the beauty of the outdoor environment we were in.

I began to realize that this practice of meditating is like a form of prayer. Christians like to pray before eating, before playing a game, and for all I know, they pray before their Christian classes. But in this case, there was no heavenly being we were asking to shine down glory upon us, it was simply taking a moment to realize where we were and what we were doing.

On the second to last day, my partner and I decided to split up to cover more ground, so to speak. He took a class on plant identification, and I took a class on heart medicine and hawthorne. There were two instructors for this hawthorne class, and we met under the shade of this massive tree out near the old banks of the lake. The two instructors were super cool. You know when you meet someone for the first time, and your energies just sort of mesh the right way? My Scientology friends and I used to think it was because we were meeting thetans we used to know, but now that I'm out, I think of it more as a wavelength kind of thing. All of us are sending out emotions, energies, worries, personalities out into the world, and sometimes you meet someone who just melds with yours.

Yeah, so here I am, slightly anxious because my partner isn't with me and I'm at this class by myself (I'm co-dependent as fuck ;) ) and the class begins and one of the instructors asks us to do a little bit of grounding meditation so we can all arrive. (I think he said arrive, I'm not sure.)

So I close my eyes, and start listening to his voice (which has taken on this really peaceful quality) and he's having us focus on our breathing. (been there, done that, this is easy and calming)

Then he has us move our breath's energy through our body (this meditation is going a little more in depth than the usual start-of-class meditations I've done before, but I'll roll with it. ) and we're instructed to feel the energy move down from our torsos and into our groins, our thighs, down through the knees, into our calves, ankles, feet and toes. I've done similar exercises in yoga class, but this time, it's more real to me. I can actually FEEL the energy, as opposed to just imagining that part of my body.

So then he has us take our breath's energy further down, through the soles of our feet and into the ground, through the grass, then the soil, and the layers of earth, right down to the very heart of the earth, the molten core of metal. And he instructs us to bring some of that heat and life from the center of the earth up through this tether we have created and back into our bodies.

Then he has us breathe up, into our chests, around our hearts, up into our shoulders and down our arms and fingers, up the neck to the head, the scalp, and then up! Up into the sky, past the clouds, past our sun, and just to revel in the massive beautiful expanse of the universe, until we found a far off distant star that we could connect to.

(By this point, I have left behind the meditations I am used to doing, and I'm REALLY digging this. There's a lot of emotions churning in my chest and gut, and I feel like I'm about to cry or burst into song, or both.)

So then he has us feel these two points, our tether to the earth and the firey hot core, and this far off distant star, and he starts talking about how stars are full of elements that explode out into the universe when they die. And how those elements fall to earth and compose every living thing here. So the carbon and iron and stuff in our bodies is part of the same carbon and iron in the depths of the earth's core, and is the same as the carbon and iron and stuff that floats in space.

That the universe was all connected, that we are all the same in that aspect.

At this point I'm actually leaking tears out my eyes. they're dropping onto my cheeks, and I'm carefully trying to dab them off so nobody will see.

Now he had us take all the joy and wonder and love that surrounds the universe and use that to envelope our hearts, these beautiful organs that nourish and pump our blood, and he said something rather awesome. "Our hearts will actually start to sync up with those that we love when we embrace them and hold them close. When they are gone, your heart still remembers that love and will keep it with you always."

And now I am actually crying. I'm not actually sad, just full of EMOTIONS. I've had to take my glasses off and discretely blow my nose, because I've just realized something. I wasn't sure WHAT it was that I realized, just that something inside me was literally stirring.

After the class, I took some time to myself in the forest and processed what had happened. After leaving this cult of scientology, I tried so hard to take everything I learned and experienced and throw it all away. (the baby AND the bathwater, yanno?) In the years since leaving the cult, I've had to wrestle with concepts of the soul, is it a real thing? and I decided that yes; there is SOMETHING about sentient creatures that MAKES them sentient. But there was something more.

In throwing away the concept of "thetan" I'd rejected any concept of supernatural beings that dont take up any part of MEST, but also the concept of life after life.

Sitting there on my boulder in the forest as the sun sparkled through the trees, I realized that the universe is far more connected than I suspected. We all have a little bit of the infinite cosmos in us, and even if the thing that is ME dies and doesnt exist after this life (more on that later, I have a whole lot to talk about on the subject of the whole track and past lives) Even if I die, the things that make up my body and ME will go on to feed the rest of the cosmos.

For the first time since leaving the cult and all its [STRIKE]teachings[/STRIKE] lies behind, I felt that there was actually some meaning in life. even if i couldn't and still cant elucidate that meaning, I know it's there. I felt it.

When the class, which was very informational on its own, the instructors passed around some hawthorne tincture, and stayed for any one-on-one discussions that we wanted to have. Apparently these two guys were pretty popular...I found out later that they have quite a bit of online presence...and I waited for about 20 minutes for the lingering crowd to thin out.

I approached the man who led the meditation. I felt obligated to stay and thank him, and more than a little anxious, because I felt I was so obviously out of place. The rest of the class was full of people who study and use herbs on a regular basis, and this was really my first foray into the subject. He was obviously popular and other people were still trying to talk to him and the other teacher; and I knew that I was still feeling the churning of emotions...I didnt want everyone to know.

"Hi," I said, with a lopsided smile, "I uh, dont really know what to say."

He gave me a smile, and in that one look fully communicated that he understood.

"I uh, really liked the meditation today. I cant explain, but I feel like I really needed that, yanno?"

And then he hugged me. I cried a little more; here I was embracing a stranger who had shown me something about myself that I didnt even know I had forgotten... I certainly wasnt able to explain myself, but yet I felt completely understood.

I dont remember what he said to me, something wise and hippyish I'm sure. ;)

-----



It's interesting, telling this story to you, because I don't meditate regularly now. I havent carved out time in my days for it- I know it's good for me but somehow I never really get around to it.

I think part of the reason is I'm scared. I'm scared to believe too much in anything. I have doubts as to whether I really had a moment back there in the woods, or if I was just trying to justify my mis-emotion. I'm scared that if I devote time to meditation and have cognitions and realizations that I might become a fanatic for THAT, and then I'll just be stuck in another type of cult.

I worry that ANY kind of mental work is bad for me, because Scientology said it was good for me, I THINK i got wins from it... but I dont know anymore.

And part of me is too scared to look and SEE if I got any real wins from the cult.


I used to believe to my very core that past lives were real. In my Dianetics co auditing at CCint I loved auditing whole-track...everything felt so very real-the incidents I ran FELT like real memories.

In the rest of my training as an auditor and supervisor and word clearer at Flag, I didnt' do much dianetics- just the Quads, Method 1, and part of the HRD. While I was on the HRD, I was going down the stairs by the parking garage and I suddenly felt light headed and dizzy-I blacked out and the next thing I knew I was slumped on the floor at the base of the stairs. I don't know if I fell or if I just stumbled to the bottom and sunk along the wall...nothing was broken or bleeding. A fellow OOT and friend of mine from EUS cont found me like that and I told him what had happened.

He walked me right on over to the examiner to originate what had happened. Next thing I knew, I was being put in session with an intern on the Out-Int rundown. The Int rundown is kind of a double edged sword. I was forbidden from doing any word clearing on the meter, so I couldn't start my next step, the grade IV internship. But I couldnt start my internship, and that was a GOOD thing in my mind because NOBODY ever actually finished an internship. They'd leave the coachman building to go the the FH internship and then they'd become auditors for the busy HGC, but it seemed like they were never allowed to finish, (because then the HGC would loose auditors).

anyways, I'm on the Int rundown, being audited in the BC co audit space, and I get to run NED for the first time. (exciting!)

I have forgotten the process for running NED, but I think you have to date incidents and point to them and stuff. This is where my bank started to fall apart. when prompted, I could never come up with a date, and the incidents were never real enough for me to point to where it happened, thus throwing me "out of session". Or I'd try to run an earlier/similar and initially "see" an incident, but then it would get hazy and vanish, thus throwing me "out of session". Once I was running an incident on the whole track, and (I am not shitting you here) A giant T-Rex stomped through the picture and ate up what looked like film strips of my past lives. THAT REALLY THREW ME OUT OF SESSION.

My auditor, a kind but feeble older gentleman, (I say feeble, because at this point in my life I had fully entered the valence of a good little flag-trained monster, and this guy just struck me as namby pamby.) asked me what had just occurred. (What kind of robot says "What just occured?" haha) Though embarrassed, I told him.

I opened my eyes, something I dont think you're sposed to do, and said, "Well, this is weird, but a giant T-rex just ate up the incident." My auditor was uncomfortable, and put his hand behind his back. That's the signal a student auditor gives the supervisor when they need help. I rolled my eyes at him. I was just a grade IV auditor and I felt like I could SURELY do better than this grade six BC graduate-to-be.

I red-tagged that day, and almost every day after that for a week. My folder was practically swimming in pink paper. My auditor r-factored me that my folder was with the senior c/s and it would take some time to return.

That was the beginning of the end of my time at Flag. Again, I don't want to get into specifics due to the nature of my leaving (as they'll probably be identifiable.) But it's sufficient to say that I was offloaded for a reason that didnt have to do with my out-int rundown.

They offloaded me in the middle of a bugged Int Rundown and in the middle of a bugged HRD (hence the out int) and left me to rot in my own crazy head.


I did get a little bit of auditing after I came home. A local staff auditor, a person I still have a lot of love for even today, was doing a correction list with me, and I stopped him in the middle of it. "Uh, hey George*, have you ever had a giant dinosaur come in and eat up your incident when you were running it?"

*not the real name, obvs.

He was a great auditor, and had this knack for making session feel like just a conversation. His ack's were never weird or bulky, he never officially invalidated or evaluated, but his tone was always so conversational that I felt I was actually talking with a real person, as opposed to running a process. He said, no, that had never happened to him, but that every PC is different.

"Well," I said, "It happened to me. Does that mean my bank isnt real? or that I was just imagining the incident and that's why the dinosaur came out?"

"I couldn't say." He said, in a non-judgy way. He wasn't even writing furiously behind the shield. "Sometimes shit just happens, it doesn't make you a bad pc."

"Well, what if I had a rock slam when that happened? Could you look into it for me? I know you can't TELL me if it happened, but... it might make me feel better if I knew what the meter was doing when I was running the incident. I cant even remember what incident it was anymore."

He got this thoughtful look, where his eyebrows kind of scrunched together. I shifted in the comfy oversized armchair and adjusted my blanket.

"I'll look into it for you." He smiled. "Why are you worried about rock slamming?"

I literally burst into tears the moment he asked. "I don't want to be evil!" I sobbed. "And Rock slams mean you're a bad person!"

He handed me a tissue and pulled out the meter reads reference. He had me read the rock slam definition.

"So a rock slam is just an indication of an evil INTENTION. It doesn't make you a bad or evil person. And I'll let you in on a secret." He leaned in in mock conspiracy. "Everybody rock slams. At some point in their auditing, it'll happen. Everyone has had an evil intention or four, and there's an entire set of processes to help with that."

I smiled at him, and he casually looked down at the meter, as if he had momentarily forgotten that I was attached to it. "Also, your needle is floating."



----
whoo! That's enough for now. I'm starving and need to make some lunch!
 

November

Patron
About medicine and herbs.

There is no "natural" medicine. There are compounds, constituents of plants or synthetically made, that have pharmacologic activity. Some of these come from nature but can be deadly - ephedrine, nightshade, hemlock.

I do use herbal medicine.

But I don't kid myself. The active compounds in herbals hit biochemical targets the same as a synthetic chemical would. Let's take willow bark, for example. Acetylsalicylic acid from willow bark will give you ulcers and thin your blood just the same as the synthetic kind. And here's the important part - if you are drinking / eating enough herb to get a pharmacologic effect from the active ingredient you will get the same side effects as if you took the synthetic concentrate in pill form.

Finally, there is the issue of metabolism. Drugs are usually metabolized by the liver, bound to protein, or excreted unchanged through the kidneys. This puts stress on the liver and kidneys. Herbal drugs are processed the same way. Grapefruit is the classic example of a natural product that interferes with one of the enzymes in the liver that metabolize drugs (the cytochrome P450 family). When a natural product is in your system, adding another natural product or a synthetic drug can cause problems because those two or three or four pharmacologically active compounds can compete for the same enzyme in the liver, and their concentrations can spike unexpectedly. Don't mix anything - drug or herbal - with another agent without talking to a doctor.

Seriously.

This could save your liver or your life.

And Helena, get a grip. WebMD has a mildly antagonistic relationship with Big Pharma. Stop talking about stuff you have NO clue about. None.


You're right. I'm not a doctor or a professional...just a person with a lot of books and a curiosity about plants. Every plant in the world, even something as benign as carrots have poisonous qualities. Hell, tomato and potato greens are downright toxic to a body. Obviously we should all exercise caution about what we put into our bodis and not trust the internet community to give us all accurate information.


And I hardly EVER go to WebMD; they're always telling me it might be cancer. ;) :coolwink:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
November,

I haven't welcomed you yet so...

Welcome! :yes: So glad you are here with all of Us. :yes:

I'm Ex SO. Was on the Apollo, at SU and FLB. Served some time on LRH Pers Staff and personally interacted with El Ron. I had nightmares for years after I walked away in the early-mid '80's. You've found the right place to talk about what you went through, are going through and will go through. You can bring all of your "garbage" here...we've been there, done that and are still doing it. :coolwink:

Re: R/Ses...It may interest you to know that El Ron had R/Ses in Hisself's folders--some of them possibly were List 1's--and wouldn't let anyone do a verif on them or try and handle them. One of Hisself's MANY dirty, dark little secrets from Scns. :angry:

Besides R/S "Tech" is bogus and has been discussed in excellent, expert detail her on ESMB. Also, any Auditor that had put in even a moderate amount of time in the chair would have found nothing untoward about your T-Rex origination and would find it bland compared many they had heard. Any "talking therapy" with a Therapist that is competent and experienced is basically expertly, gently and effortlessly directed conversation. :coolwink:

I wish you well as you walk your path out of the labyrinth and come out from under El Ron's spell and the whammy that Scn puts on trusting, decent and honest and good people...like you. Just keep going forward...always forward...one step and then another and know you're not the only one and are not alone. :bighug:

Face:)
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
YES ^^^ this is so true...and I am totally guilty of that!:blush: I got sucked right into another CULT (not as bad as Scientology - but it was still a cult where the leader made people feel bad about themselves and needed his cult to have spiritual righteousness with God).

What I learned - If one does not take the time to educate oneself about mind control, especially in religions, one may only feel comfortable in cults.

A few friends of mine (Ex Scientologists) only feel comfortable in cult like groups - they joined a Multi Level Marketing company where they sell "blue sky" for the privilege to be part of a group. They make no money but they go to conferences and meet ups and get all jazzed up - they sell a few things but the people at the top are the only ones that make any money - they have been grinding away at this for years and have nothing to show for it as far as income...but the believe they will get rich some day. Poor souls!!:bigcry: They have made nothing of real substance since they first join...but the believe and work tirelessly to be right....:hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper: Sound familiar? Yes - they were on Staff so they were all lubed up for this type of thinking and behavior.

They also got sucked into a Christian Cult where the Leader gives their heart to Jesus (they do not do it on their own) After that - the Leader made them get Baptized in front of the group - dunked in a tank for all to see! They believe that in order to be a REAL Christian - they had to do it - and the Leader twists the Bible to get his clubbed seals to do whatever he demands. I watched this guy belittle his parishoner's. He totally takes advantage of vulnerable souls that come in to his church desparate for help...and he converts a lot of people. No one looks happy - they love bomb, they do many of the similar things that the cult of Scamonology does but instead of Ron they use Jesus. It is very sad and not what I believe Christianity is all about. Just a messed up minister looking for control to survive!

He also made them take a class BEFORE they could be considered part of the "Church family" and receive a small group to support them. I watched this looney tune Pastor "REGG" people for donations for his building and school - so his entire family had nice jobs at the expense of the parishioners.

They took the bait - hook, line and sinker and eventually disconnected from me because I would not buy their MLM stuff and join the "Church family" where the leader lives in a $500,000 home and everyone in his family has a nice job supported by his "cherch".

Now I know why I hate Organized religion and Scientology takes the cake on that one...they did prepare me to be aware of cults in our midst! Prior to Scientology - I stayed away from organized religion - I was told Scientology would be different but it IS one of the worst "cherch's" available to man today!! Now - I stay away from Organized religion and have come full circle with a lot more "R" on cults!

Thank you L R H for my amazing WIN!! I now have total certainty with conceptual understanding on CULTS in our midst! Thank you Sir - for your genius CON job and deceit...I believed you were a Nuclear Physicist, won Purple Hearts in the Navy, was Ron the Writer, Ron the Photographer, Ron the this...Ron the that - until I LOOKED - then I found out you were only RON THE CON the entire time. Your "tek" attracted the likes of David Miscavige and it helped create the covert cult we have today!! Wow - now that was some create Ron....very well done on the deceit and fraud!

Not only is Scientology a cult but is an evil organization (business) that uses religious cloaking to deceive its members so they can take advantage of them, get all of their money, and use them for free labor.

After 63 years - there are no clears or OT's ...the TEK was squirreled by SP's the whole entire time....most members are in dire straights - financially, spiritually and mentally!

No one in questions this fact, which is an indication that their analytical minds have been hijacked. They can't see and no Super Power rundown in the world is going to help them see the truth - they have to step away and LOOK from an objective viewpoint.

Good rant!
 

November

Patron
November,

Re: R/Ses...It may interest you to know that El Ron had R/Ses in Hisself's folders--some of them possibly were List 1's--and wouldn't let anyone do a verif on them or try and handle them. One of Hisself's MANY dirty, dark little secrets from Scns. :angry:

Besides R/S "Tech" is bogus and has been discussed in excellent, expert detail her on ESMB. Also, any Auditor that had put in even a moderate amount of time in the chair would have found nothing untoward about your T-Rex origination and would find it bland compared many they had heard. Any "talking therapy" with a Therapist that is competent and experienced is basically expertly, gently and effortlessly directed conversation. :coolwink:

Face:)

(bolded for emphasis) Where can I read more on this?
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
(bolded for emphasis) Where can I read more on this?

Re: R/Ses...It may interest you to know that El Ron had R/Ses in Hisself's folders--some of them possibly were List 1's--and wouldn't let anyone do a verif on them or try and handle them. One of Hisself's MANY dirty, dark little secrets from Scns. :angry:

The Otto Roos story is a first hand account from the CL 12 Flag Senior C/S that headed up the team that FES'd Hisself's PC Folders in the early '70's. I'm a cyber numbnuts but I'm sure one of the fine Folks here like Veda, Arnie Lerma, Infinite, ILove2Lurk, etc that keeps track of that stuff will put up a Link for you shortly.

Besides R/S "Tech" is bogus and has been discussed in excellent, expert detail her on ESMB. Also, any Auditor that had put in even a moderate amount of time in the chair would have found nothing untoward about your T-Rex origination and would find it bland compared many they had heard. Any "talking therapy" with a Therapist that is competent and experienced is basically expertly, gently and effortlessly directed conversation. :coolwink:

Again, I'm sure someone will put up some Links for you soon re: the fallibility the E-meter, etc. El Ron "Handled" the issue of R/S's in Hisself's Folders in the latter '70's by issuing kNOT's "Tech" and the Dianetic Clear Bulletins, to wit: "An R/S means something different on a Clear or OT."

Face:)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
yeah, instead go to a bunch of quack sites that have done no research, no studies and which will quite happily sell anything some twit told them would "handle things".

You know what happens with "natural remedies" that actually get tested and proven?

They become what we call "medicine",

Only if there's a way to synthesize the active ingredient, so it can be patented.

The process of running clinical tests is very expensive. Pharma companies will only do it if they can make money in the end, and that will only happen if they can synthesize and patent the active ingredient of the "natural remedy".
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Only if there's a way to synthesize the active ingredient, so it can be patented.

The process of running clinical tests is very expensive. Pharma companies will only do it if they can make money in the end, and that will only happen if they can synthesize and patent the active ingredient of the "natural remedy".

The NIH has a while section that does just this. I'll post some amusing anecdotes when I get to a real computer.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Allow yourself time to heal - in body, mind & spirit. You are not on a time table... this is not the flu, you will not wake up "over it" day-after-tomorrow. You did not get to this point overnight... you will not leave it behind overnight.

Accept each day as a gift, unwrap it, enjoy it and find the good in it. Some gifts and bigger & prettier than others but that does not mean the smaller chipped gift can not be a treasure.

You have a chance to reinvent your life.... go for it. :thumbsup:


Love this.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Only if there's a way to synthesize the active ingredient, so it can be patented.

The process of running clinical tests is very expensive. Pharma companies will only do it if they can make money in the end, and that will only happen if they can synthesize and patent the active ingredient of the "natural remedy".

Yes it is expensive - because it has to be thorough. Actually pharmaceuticals do the tests without knowing if it will work - thats why they do the tests. They dont do the tests only if they can make money out of one particular thing. They do the tests on MANY things and in many ways to find the one that they hope will work and will make them money.

And yeah it would probably be a good idea if they made money doing it otherwise we would still have smallpox epidemics, rampant rubella, polio epidemics, no regimens for AIDs, no BP, DMII treatments and so on. But a lot of stuff got left behind because testing showed that it did not work. But the tests still had to be paid for.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Thank you for this post. Can you elaborate on what the PTSD therapy consisted of and how it helped you. It sounds interesting to me and I like to learn everything about PTSD.

I also want to mention excercise is an excellent form of therapy to help recover faster. Join a gym and go everyday. Not only will you get in shape but you will feel better!!

Hello Knows,

Concerning PTSD cognitive behavioral therapy:

I will answer from my personal viewpoint as I don't know how other therapist works.
The therapists I've work with, are the one who studied and researched PTSD on my continent and make recommandations to work out a successfull protocol.

The protocol consist of

- Having the person to locate with is or are the traumatic events she can associate with the symptoms
(at that point, there is often some missing parts - which is normal as the brain could not integrate at that time)

- Then, the therapist take as much time as needed to explain how the brain works, what happens at the time of a trauma
and how the brain protect itself and ourselve. The therapist go in details over all the after-effect residues
in a way we can, at that point, understand what is happening and why. Having a knowledge about that
brings about such relief.

- Then, the therapist uses communications skills and techniques to bring you to gently recall the situation or situations
to get as much as content as possible. Nothing here similar to auditing, hypnosis or psychoanalysis
It's like talking with a friend. It's the part of collecting as much datas as possible to ''customize'' the therapy.
Also,person can see which thaughts he\she ''has'' and are destructive or making his\her life a misery.
(ex: life is dangerous - I can't trust people - I am a bad suppressive person...)

- There will be exercice done at home to disempower the after effects of this traumatic event(s)
I prefer not to tell what it consist of - as I don't want people to be left with pre-conceived ideas and won't
give a try because of this. This is one of the most important part and the therapist is working close with you,
as a friend, while the emotionnal content will emerge. But again, it is done a step at the time, a gentle way. No
worry about that. This part is the longer - may takes a couple of months.
We can experience a relief on daily basis.

- When this is done, then we can work the desensitization issue. The therapist work close with the person to customize
a specific protocle, with his\her agreement - to perform this process - wich is the one who bring the great relief
and the experience everything is now fine. It gives back the person his\her own control over emotions and situations.
The person can now realize he\she is back in the present time and his\her brain is not reacting anymore to a past event.

It may remains some residues, specificly with sadness and insomnia. But they are usually disminished.
Sadness will be replace with other emotions with time - insomnia can be adressed with other techniques.
When completed - 6 months + - usually a person can be better 80% +++ .
This person has healed what needed to be adressed and gain back his\her true nature with much hope to recover
a normal life.

* If I knew this when I left $cientology, It would have save me a life of misery - of struggling and of unecessary suffering.
My therapist was a young lady, very warmth, she had sens of humour, was gentle, and help me like if she was my
younger sister. I gave her a letter when I finished and a commendatin for what she had achieve with me , as we both
changed my life.

I was enrolled in a (without medication) therapy. So I used my Zen mindfullness meditation background and practiced
some techniques she thaught me for spotting anxiety building up and keep it a comfortable level at that time.
+ as you mention, I also did much walking (as exercise) and took care of having good food and supplementation for
stress demands.
(cal-mag-multi - b-complex-L-tryptophan (instead of 5-htp asmuch safe to avoid blood serotonin build-up)
I also pushed myself into social activities to confront such phobia I had at the time. (CULT residue)
Now, it's all fine , I am happy and a joyfull person enjoying life.

The hypervigilance resulting from a PTSD is poisoning a life - and cognitive behavioral therapy adresses it.

Hope it can be of help!
 
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Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
One thing I found beneficial is being around people who weren't in the cult with no cult-speak in use around me. Non-cult normal conversations. To contrast the word trigger cognitive indoctrinations that are rife in the cult. This is where looking at PTSD and CBT that were previously mentioned come into play. The cult rewires neurological cognitive pathways with habitual repetition using Operant Conditioning. This is an area where having a good patient therapist can be very beneficial. I found it so.
I suppose not using cult-speak is better, but darn it, it's just so precise at times.

Helena
 
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