Another cover up uncovered

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is a verifiable connection between Scientology, the US government and remote viewing. Of course, the ACTUAL facts are open to much debate.

As an example see

http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.com/rvtimeline/index.html

The US government has conducted extenisve HIDDEN "research" into "mind control", where MK-ULTRA is just one example. And, it acted to hide most of it.

But, just because some segment of the US government thought at one time that some aspect of Scientology theory might be of some "benefit" to the "intel services" does not at all mean that there is any value to Hubbard's "Bridge to Total Freedom".

The US government (and many other governments and corporations), often using scientists with compromised senses of morality, have closely investigated ANY realm of study that was thought to possibly prove "useful" to them in terms of "realizing their goals".

Remember, Scientology and Scientologists are FAR from the only sorry souls on planet Earth who will happily commit deceitful acts as a means to realizing some end. In other words, it is common for "ideologically-driven" folks of ALL sorts to resort to the maxim that "the end justifies the means". And thus, they leave in their wake a long line of injuries and harm - in the name of realizing their "lofty and wonderful goals and visions of a better tomorrow".

Scientology enjoys no monopoly on the more unsavory aspects of human motivation and behavior. :no:

+++++++

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

TP
 

Lovinglife625

Patron with Honors
Hubbard is just so so over-the-top obnoxious and presumptuous. Comparing himself to Jesus! What a self-absorbed person with a much too extreme sense of personal value and worth.

There is more value and truth in these words than in the ENTIRETY of all Hubbard spoke and wrote:

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU

If only Scientology and Scientologists understood and applied THAT idea!

+++++++++++++++++++

So very true Gadfly, well put!

Check out Hubbard saying "ahhhh the man on the cross, there was no Christ" at 1:33 of the below video that through Anonymous calls upon other Churches and people in general to join in the fight against scientology abuses. What a joke and a "know-it-all who really knows nothing" is Hubbard and what a beautiful video is the below set to Beethoven's "Ode To Joy":

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8_F5r_SXbAk
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Karl Marx Communist Manifesto on Religion

Religion according to Karl Marx is a basis for continued separation between the ruling and the working class. The ruling class employs religion behind which lurks its own special interest. According to him there is a constant overpowering of new religious ideas over the old. The ancient religions was overthrown by Christianity and itself succumbed to rationalistic ideas in the 18th century. He interprets that to be the birth of religious liberty and awakening the freedom of consciousness. He says eventhough religious , moral and philosophical ideas changes it did not change the system founded on them. Communism he says should abolish all eternal truths, religions and existing moral principles and constitutes them in a new picture which will not make history repeat but establish a system that requires no more self correction or overpowering of one idea over another, or exploitation of one class of people (religious, social or economical) over the other He feels one does not require deep intuition to understand human consciousness which changes with changes in time due to the material and social changes around him.

The ruling class according to him are minorities but who have been strong and ruling the majority, among many factors employing religion as one of them. This reminds me of Brahminism and its misuse by few as a ruling minority over the majority under the name of god and religion. Karl Marx idea was to unite the working class and also remove the boundaries of nationalism among them to bring a self conscious independent movement by the majority for the majority. Buddha was faced with a similar situation of his times but he found a solution through his wisdom, for he knew there is nothing else to master but oneself through one’s own mind.

Main failure of Karl Marx philosophy is he failed to see that eventhough the interests have to be centered around the likes and wants of majority and abolition of every sectarian form of antagonistic society, there requires a trustful government on the same principle to implement with all sincerity adhering to the same goals. He wanted to abolish the minority over majority, but he failed to see the communist governments formed are indirectly minority (do not really represent people, as people with power tend to use it for their own purpose) controlling the majority and by virtue of this enormous control given to the government, it became like an aristocratic rule.

Failure of communism is directly linked with economy, and it seems to be true for there were no steps taken for higher productivity. Obviously everyone under the communist rule would be getting equal privilege, well it may sound great but not everyone works the same. There are a section of people who benefit on others work and are just parasites and there is NO COMPETITION and thus NO IMPROVED PRODUCTIVITY. The society eventhough is divided by capitalistic ideas still seems to be the workable philosophy for a better economical living. A better economy brings about a change in living and even moral conditions among people with the challenge and competition being the motivational factors to survive by being contributive, responsible and productive.


:thumbsup::coolwink::thumbsup:


You actually never read either the Manifesto or Das Kapital - did you? It is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about - at least as far as Marx and his writing are concerned.
 
You actually never read either the Manifesto or Das Kapital - did you? It is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about - at least as far as Marx and his writing are concerned.

I notic ed that too, Mick.

Marx doesn't discuss religion in the Communist Manifesto, except when he criticizes Christian Socialism.

Ah, the good old days....

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
The actual Marx quote I believe...

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right
 
The actual Marx quote I believe...

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

A you sure it says opium and not opiate. Back then an opiate was a sedative. But opium has a completely different connotation.

And again, as you pointed out Xguardian, this isn't from the Communist Manifesto.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
That is true, and of course it was written in London. How terribly complex. So we need a German native, preferably former East German, any there?
 
I just checked my edition and it says opiuim.

But my edition is edited by Robert Tucker who points out that the translation he uses was translated from the Russian.

So we've definately have to find a German version.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
according to this site,

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/300700.html

''Religion is the opium of the people

Origin

This is probably the best-known quotation by Karl Marx, the German economist and Communist political philosopher. The origin German text, in Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, 1843 is:

Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes

This has been translated variously as 'religion is the opiate of the masses', 'religion is the opium of the masses' and, in a version which German scholars prefer 'religion is the opium of the people'. The context the phrase appears is this:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."''
 
according to this site,

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/300700.html

''Religion is the opium of the people

Origin

This is probably the best-known quotation by Karl Marx, the German economist and Communist political philosopher. The origin German text, in Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, 1843 is:

Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes

This has been translated variously as 'religion is the opiate of the masses', 'religion is the opium of the masses' and, in a version which German scholars prefer 'religion is the opium of the people'. The context the phrase appears is this:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."''

Thanks!

That pretty much settles it.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
assumptions

Secretivefaggy, the point is that if the theory is correct it means that scientology did work and that doesn't work now because someone has changed it so it's crap, while they use the tech from the real OT shit to spy on the Talliban and Iran.

The proof of them using this wonder stuff would be the almost impossible military victories that America has won.

Where are they? Iraq and Afghanistan?

If it were so they would have spotted 911 before it happened and would have Bin Laden in court.

I see no proof.

You assume that the official version of 9-11 is true, and that the govt. objectives in places like Iraq and Afghanistan are as stated. I buy neither. Of course, that doesn't mean that the upper levels of Scientology of 40 years ago worked. And, if they did, they were largely subjective anyways. About the only thing that would tend to prove or disprove is to round up some of the old timers who attested and both test them as well as take their testimony.

Pete
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
unkempt barbers and dentists with rotten teeth

If anyone is under the delusional impression Scientology ever accomplished anything of value, you have to look no further than the physical and mental condition of L. Ron Hubbard himself. If it could accomplish even 1% of what Hubbard claimed it could, to do you think L. Ron Hubbard would have been such a mess? Other than his gift of flimflam, the man was a train wreck on every level imaginable. After 60 years Scientology has absolutely nothing to show for it other than a trail of broken lives and emptied bank accounts, even the celebs they pride themselves on putting so much time, effort, and money into are all past their prime.

Seriously what did Scientology ever have going for it other than some recycled outdated pop psychology and crude hypnosis to uncover a few repressed thoughts of a handful of people?

The Mystery Sandwich of Scientology is rancid and covered with mold, it's time to toss it into trash, nobody is interested in taking a bite of it anymore.

There are such things as unkept barbers and dentists with rotten teeth that give excellent haircuts and decent dental care but never obtain the proper care from others for themselves. No, that doesn't prove that the HubTurd techniques are valid, but, just because the HubTurd was nutzoid at the end doesn't in and of itself disprove anything either. As far as the mystery sandwich turning into a shit sandwich ... you may be right on that count, for sure ... which, of couse, begs the question ... what are we doing here still nibbling on it?

Pete
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Before Ron sold out to the CIA, scientology did produce clears and Oh Tease! then the CIA went on a mission and poisoned all people on the planet except those doing the CIA version of the OT levels.

Just to fool us on ESMB.

Where's my tin foil hat pattern? this one's falling apart!
 

xguardian

Patron with Honors
Karl Marx Communist Manifesto on Religion

Religion according to Karl Marx is a basis for continued separation between the ruling and the working class. The ruling class employs religion behind which lurks its own special interest. According to him there is a constant overpowering of new religious ideas over the old. The ancient religions was overthrown by Christianity and itself succumbed to rationalistic ideas in the 18th century. He interprets that to be the birth of religious liberty and awakening the freedom of consciousness. He says eventhough religious , moral and philosophical ideas changes it did not change the system founded on them. Communism he says should abolish all eternal truths, religions and existing moral principles and constitutes them in a new picture which will not make history repeat but establish a system that requires no more self correction or overpowering of one idea over another, or exploitation of one class of people (religious, social or economical) over the other He feels one does not require deep intuition to understand human consciousness which changes with changes in time due to the material and social changes around him.

The ruling class according to him are minorities but who have been strong and ruling the majority, among many factors employing religion as one of them. This reminds me of Brahminism and its misuse by few as a ruling minority over the majority under the name of god and religion. Karl Marx idea was to unite the working class and also remove the boundaries of nationalism among them to bring a self conscious independent movement by the majority for the majority. Buddha was faced with a similar situation of his times but he found a solution through his wisdom, for he knew there is nothing else to master but oneself through one’s own mind.

Main failure of Karl Marx philosophy is he failed to see that eventhough the interests have to be centered around the likes and wants of majority and abolition of every sectarian form of antagonistic society, there requires a trustful government on the same principle to implement with all sincerity adhering to the same goals. He wanted to abolish the minority over majority, but he failed to see the communist governments formed are indirectly minority (do not really represent people, as people with power tend to use it for their own purpose) controlling the majority and by virtue of this enormous control given to the government, it became like an aristocratic rule.

Failure of communism is directly linked with economy, and it seems to be true for there were no steps taken for higher productivity. Obviously everyone under the communist rule would be getting equal privilege, well it may sound great but not everyone works the same. There are a section of people who benefit on others work and are just parasites and there is NO COMPETITION and thus NO IMPROVED PRODUCTIVITY. The society eventhough is divided by capitalistic ideas still seems to be the workable philosophy for a better economical living. A better economy brings about a change in living and even moral conditions among people with the challenge and competition being the motivational factors to survive by being contributive, responsible and productive.


:thumbsup::coolwink::thumbsup:

Communists-Marxist-Humanist-Socialist-liberal Democrat tomato-tomoto?

Humanist Manifesto ll
Religion
* FIRST: In the best sense, religion may inspire dedication to the highest ethical ideals. The cultivation of moral devotion and creative imagination is an expression of genuine "spiritual" experience and aspiration.
We believe, however, that traditional dogmatic or authoritarian religions that place revelation, God, ritual, or creed above human needs and experience do a disservice to the human species. Any account of nature should pass the tests of scientific evidence; in our judgment, the dogmas and myths of traditional religions do not do so. Even at this late date in human history, certain elementary facts based upon the critical use of scientific reason have to be restated. We find insufficient evidence for belief in the existence of a supernatural; it is either meaningless or irrelevant to the question of survival and fulfillment of the human race. As nontheists, we begin with humans not God, nature not deity. Nature may indeed be broader and deeper than we now know; any new discoveries, however, will but enlarge our knowledge of the natural.

Some humanists believe we should reinterpret traditional religions and reinvest them with meanings appropriate to the current situation. Such redefinitions, however, often perpetuate old dependencies and escapisms; they easily become obscurantist, impeding the free use of the intellect. We need, instead, radically new human purposes and goals.

We appreciate the need to preserve the best ethical teachings in the religious traditions of humankind, many of which we share in common. But we reject those features of traditional religious morality that deny humans a full appreciation of their own potentialities and responsibilities. Traditional religions often offer solace to humans, but, as often, they inhibit humans from helping themselves or experiencing their full potentialities. Such institutions, creeds, and rituals often impede the will to serve others. Too often traditional faiths encourage dependence rather than independence, obedience rather than affirmation, fear rather than courage. More recently they have generated concerned social action, with many signs of relevance appearing in the wake of the "God Is Dead" theologies. But we can discover no divine purpose or providence for the human species. While there is much that we do not know, humans are responsible for what we are or will become. No deity will save us; we must save ourselves.

SECOND: Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful. They distract humans from present concerns, from self-actualization, and from rectifying social injustices. Modern science discredits such historic concepts as the "ghost in the machine" and the "separable soul." Rather, science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces. As far as we know, the total personality is a function of the biological organism transacting in a social and cultural context. There is no credible evidence that life survives the death of the body (No Judgement Day). We continue to exist in our progeny and in the way that our lives have influenced others in our culture.

Traditional religions are surely not the only obstacles to human progress. Other ideologies also impede human advance. Some forms of political doctrine, for instance, function religiously, reflecting the worst features of orthodoxy and authoritarianism, especially when they sacrifice individuals on the altar of Utopian promises. Purely economic and political viewpoints, whether capitalist or communist, often function as religious and ideological dogma. Although humans undoubtedly need economic and political goals, they also need creative values by which to live.} end

xg:
My point was those who were involved with takeover of CoS are opposed to all religions and their aim is to undo them.

What other pretext for IRS/INTERPOL to join forces is up for speculation. The facts are there. You can "Dead Agent any "source"...documents can be forged, witnesses coached and paid for.

Haters that just want all blame put on LRH and GO OSA SEA ORG and the TECH...knock yourselves out.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. LRH was no exception to that rule and all those who were blinded by ambition and power were also manipulated by worse "puppeteers' expert in what they have been doing to Nations and Corporations, Religions for their warped agendas since day one.

Scientology is in the teeth of a much worse predator then anyone can fathom. Keep your heads in the sand if you will, when you wake up one morning and find our Constitution shredded, you won't be able to blame CoS.

When any religion is suppressed, cult or not, all are are in danger.

Whether real or imagined, when you feel betrayed, deceived, abandoned, and in my case "shot in the back"...whatever, hurt & pain turns to hate and hate blinds.

Everyone on this board knows that many Scientologists have gone to their grave as happy as we have been unhappy. Life happened!
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Take all the Cap'n Bill and Marcab tin foil spin bin crapola out of this and remove the whole conspiracy idea...

...it was still a major death knell to my Scientology valence...

Here's why:

Remember all that crap about being PTS if you had a relative or something with a security clearance in the gov't?

You think a high-ranking official in the IRS or the DOJ or any department would've ever been able to get in the HGC with Hubby on the lines?

I've seen people galore declared illegal by familial contacts and here's the IRS agent of IRS agents OWNING Scientology?

What a crock of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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