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Another way to view Scientology

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by SHUKex, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I'm still waiting to find out who the 270 clears that hubbard cleared back in the 1950 book release of Dianetics. It's been 68 years now, I would hope they came back

    to help spread the word.

    Or at least join staff in a dianetics or scientology organization. Surely there must be a case folder to verify.
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Way back, Hubbard eventually made a comment about "Clear".
    As I remember, he backed-off and said "In this universe, there are no absolutes."
    So, he admitted that there was no state of "Clear" as he had stated before.
    It was a "cop out" statement from Hubbard.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
    phenomanon likes this.
  3. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    In the Book Of Case Remedies he said people had misunderstood the State Of Clear and he backtracked on his previous statements about it. Of course it wasn't his fault and so on and so forth.
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    It's strange isn't it how people have different tastes in music? Here we have the audience going wild while Garcia and his band stumble through this song. The instruments are uncoordinated and the singing is out of tune, but that's not really the point is it?

    As a matter of fact I have the original studio version of this song on the vinyl LP 'Gerry Garcia - Reflections' on Round Records which I imported from the 'States, and it's a little more together than this live version and I prefer it that way, in the same way that I absolutely love 'Terrapin Station' which many true deadheads regard as a travesty and uncharacteristically overproduced and which you expressed some distaste for when I mentioned it a few years back.

    Takes all sorts don't it?
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    With regards to "no absolutes in this universe", wasn't Hubbard referring to the physical universe (or the MEST universe to use a Scientology term)?

    And a being isn't really part of the MEST universe. So would this statement about "no absolutes" still apply?
  6. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Heh, people didn't misunderstand anything. They properly understood what he wrote in DMSMH. If that is incorrect then why did he never issue a revised edition and why does CoS still sell the original book now, 68 years later without any attempt to clear up these "misunderstandings"?

    ThetanExterior and Gib like this.
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    There are well respected critics who, if writing about the music of the Dead would put quotation marks around the word "music"...

    I would venture to say their product should be labeled "some assembly required" and is only fully enjoyed by those souls who can enter a deadhead state of mind.

    Much as with Satchmo...

    A perfectly straight attuned and educated ear can recognize a great, unique, unprecedented grace and power to his work but only a rare few if any can fully grasp his spatial conception without a visit to The Five Spot.
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    Now there is a challenging word.

    As a matter of fact "glib" is a just characterization of my statement that I comandeered six live nukes from Minot AFB in 2007.


    The material fact that those nukes came off the rack can be verified. The incident was reported immediately only reaching public media three weeks later and it was news to me when I read of it in The Seattle Times just as it was to most everyone else. Unlike everyone else it blew my mind because it was a material albeit unverifiable fact that three weeks earlier I had, in writing, ordered six live nukes to be pulled off the rack.

    It wasn't intended to be serious, it was a lighthearted piece of writing. I had just handed over the product of three years work to the Presidents anthrax sniffers and it was like delivering a long carried knapsack full of rocks to it's destination. And yet given the context there was reason to believe my written words were cause of the occurence


    on a spiritual level casation leaves no footprint
  9. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    This Robin's nest was over our front door this Spring. The babies hatched during May. Not to derail a thread, but I just saw how to do this.
    Carry on.
  10. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK, look. I don't mind if you think you have vast and stunning effects in the real world using only your mental powers. That's your thing. I don't care.

    But I do care very, very much, that you claim these "powers" are the result Hubbard's "tech". I will do everything I can to keep people from getting lured into that stupid trap. Hubbard claimed his "tech" would produce "OTs". It didn't, it can't, it never could. It's the fake bait in the trap. That "promise" is pure evil. I don't think you want to support that evil.

    Maybe you have some psychic abilities. Maybe you don't. But I guarantee you it wasn't the result of Hubbard's crap. He died without exhibiting any psychic abilities at all. He was a mess and a failure, betrayed by those he trusted most.
    ThetanExterior and Gib like this.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Books make Booms as Hubbard said. It's written in policy as you know.

    The only boom from the original release of Book 1 or Dianetics was created by Jefferson Hawkins and he used savy marketing techniques to create a mystery, or entrap one into thinking any two people could clear themselves for that is what dianetics said one could do.

    Truth revealed, no clears. And of course the further rhetoric of Hubbard is that if you don't get case gain, or go clear, why you are a SP or PTS.

    What a trap Hubbard set up, what a mind fuck it is.
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've done far-ranging studies and practice Bill. I am quite ardent as to being a professing christian and would fiercely implore all and sundry to at least be familiar with The Book of Proverbs, The Sermon on the Mount and the thirteenth chapter of Paul's letter to the church in Corinth. Like Shelly Berman, I, as a performer have often heard the sound of one hand clapping. I have been surprised to discover the ancient Greeks to have had insights into the esoteric which live in our present day. Do you know anyone who would claim to have heard "The Music of the Spheres"? Never in my life until this very moment have I made mention of it but twice, stone cold sober and in my right mind (which I, at times, apparently am not) have heard the unmistakable and incomparable Music of the Spheres. I am always reticent to speak of how very much insight into the transcendent I have gained from lysergic acid diathelimide-25 because it is a radical unpredictable and provenly capable of inducing fatal and lethal delusion and baby, once your cherry gets busted you ain't never a virgin again. It is, to say the least, bittersweet but I am endlessly grateful for my Army training and I am an autodidact who has found many an educator to give me moments of education.

    But I spent three intense years of training and practice as an auditor and not only were these valuable in and of themselves these have done much to enhance the other studies as well.

    How could you know he never exhibited any psychic ability?

    He certainly erred. For instance he admitted to being entirely unsuccessful at using "OT" ability to win at poker. Using such power is certainly sacreligious and likely blasphemous so it's good he couldn't. But that's the left hand path...


    Just to be brief here...

    To you and to many on this board Hubbard's work is worthless or nearly so. If that is what you found from personal experience so be it.

    It is commonly recommended to respect honest testimony particularly from someone who is willing to give honest response to any who would question it

    Always an honor and a pleasure to touch swords with you Bill
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's the most wonderful trap I ever saw Gib.

    The trapper gave the trapees all the tools they need to undo the trap...
  14. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It's disappointing that you're unwilling to give an honest response to my earlier questions. :whistling:
  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

  16. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    "Honest testimony"? No, that isn't what you are doing. You are imagining something without proof and without substantiation -- which is, I repeat, fine with me. But then you are further claiming that Hubbard gave you these "powers" -- which has no basis in fact at all.

    OK, so Hubbard gave you super powers. Prove it. PROVE IT. Which process? When? Who was there? What did they observe before (when you claim you didn't have powers) and after (when you claim you did). Exact time, place, form and event. Prove it was the result of Hubbard's "tech" and not anything else.

    You see what I'm saying? It is one thing to claim you have amazing powers and not prove it. It is an order of magnitude more to claim that it is the result of Hubbard's crap. But that's what you have to do now. Prove it.
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    No Bill.

    I do not have to prove anything and in truth the very nature of the dynamic between the spiritual and and the temporal plane transcends proof within the temporal plane.

    I have in fact stated repeatedly that proper scientific rigor presses me to state I cannot prove the most intriguing of my statements EVEN TO MYSELF

    I do present myself as one who presents honest testimony and it is not necessary accept as sooth the testimony itself to tender respect for my personal integrity in giving testimony.


    Although you refuse to admit to even grudging respect for my personal sincerity, integrity and honesty I will continue to address you as if that respect exists within in you because I am confident that it does.

    Same goes for one of the posters who hit the moneybags button
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't claim Hubbard gave me anything...

    And neither does he.

    I believe your own study of the materials was long enough and broad enough for you to have come across Ron's statement that "we aren't giving the preclear anything he doesn't already have". Rather modest statement in that his work does deliver the training and processing which make possible the realization of what we have.

    Just as an aside, Hubbard's work has been extensively studied on Broadway as it has in Hollywood and I would be among those who believe the line "Oz didn't give anything to the Tin Man that he didn't already have" was pointedly lifted straight from the aforementioned citation.

    As a preclear I am but an ARC Straightrazor release but Doctor Hubbard IMHO did produce a superb strop for the honing of straightrazor. TR's 0-9 and CCHs 1-4 simple though they may be have been found by many students myself among them to be astonishingly and profoundly beneficial. The COHE is another excellent source of case gain though one mst caution readers to take seriously Veda's oft repeated admonitions concerning the passage in SOS concerning beggars lepers and the Venzuelan dictator Gomez.



    But I'm in a cheerful mood just now...

    I'll take a shot at a demonstration...


    The Dramatis Personae are free-willed beings of substantial ability and testosterone...

    Moreover, Brady has already fingered the five rings I measured him for prior to the legendary upset of the St Louis Rams.

    And the damned Yankees can be somewhat persnickity about their pinstripe pride...

    But if my conductor's baton can effect a sufficient measure of command over the percussion to elicit a few favorable and timely drams of Krupa and the strings can deliver unexpected counterpoint to the brass...

    Then The Olde Towne Team will beat the Gotham Nine in six or seven games for the league pennant and Belichek's butt will again warm a duckboat seat
  19. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, I like you Birdy, and respect you. But I will argue with you when I feel it is called for. You take care.
  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    You are missing something vital.

    These OTs do, in fact have the supernatural powers.​

    They can perform miracles.​

    They perform such god-like feats on a regular basis!​

    The problem, however, is that Ron did not fully develop the technology of how to demonstrate these miracles to others. We are grateful that Ron discovered in his early research that miracles could not be shown willy-nilly to people who could not themselves perform miracles, because the out-gradient and out-reality was sufficiently shocking that their case would be messed up. Perhaps, permanently, which is a malicious eternal overt on the being.

    What give us the right, Ron explained, do we as certified Operating Thetans have to demonstrate to people our magical powers. By way of example, it would be recklessly irresponsible to use our supernatural powers to cure someone suffering from an incurable disease, because the shock of being cured might kill them[sup]1[/sup].

    [sup]1[/sup] This has happened tens of thousands of times. OTs cured someone dying of cancer, but the person died always, due to the out-gradient shock of being miraculously cured.
    phenomanon likes this.